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Thread: Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim Discussion Thread

  1. #76
    Grand Shriner N-12_Aden's Avatar
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    But how is the additions of Dragons in this game any of what you said. Dragons have been in Elder Scrolls lore for a while. You remember the Akaviri wars with the Empire? They are reptillian and said to be dragon like. Plus its not the first time dragons have been in the Elder Scrolls: [Hidden link. Register to see links.]

  2. #77
    RIP FFShrine: 2001-2010 Olde's Avatar
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    I'm not opposed to their existence in lore, or if they're a special boss battle. I'm more irritated at the fact that your character goes around getting into fights with them...maybe it sounds silly, but I think that fighting them takes the magic out of the idea of dragons. They're supposed to ritually turn men into smoking piles of ash. I realize that Bethesda wants to make the player feel powerful, but I mean, one guy standing up to twenty dragons (during the course of the game)? That's ridiculous.

    I like the idea of dragons in the abstract, but when they're this prominent and they habitually swoop down just to get killed...I mean, dragons don't just do that! Then again, I admittedly don't know how strong they actually are. I'm basing this off the demo where Todd Howard seems to walk straight up to a dragon--through a breath of fire--and takes him on with his sword like it's just another day out in the field. It just seems kind of absurd to me right now, I'll have to wait and see.

  3. #78
    Grand Shriner N-12_Aden's Avatar
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    Pretty sure in those demos stats were maxed out and their items were enhanced. If you are ever playing Fallout or Oblivion console commands can give you anything, and dev game demos often run with cheats. Like the Halo Reach screenshots with 999 bullets in the magazine.

  4. #79
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    Well it all depends, really. If your guy was just a regular bod with nothing remarkable about him, then it would be very strange. But heroes frequently have spells, magic swords and armour etc and sometimes have other innate abilities (magical properties of their bloodline, touched by the Gods, that sort of thing). A dragon may have raw power on its side, but unless it is one of those games where Dragons can speak and are intelligent, its still just a beast. And Man has proven conclusively throughout history that his mind and ability to plan and equip himself, trumps whatever gifts nature has given to other creatures.

    And besides, is it really any more far fetched than your lone warrior killing literally thousands of enemies over the course of the game, often without any real effort at all? More silly than heroes who can level up to be so tough, that even if they stand naked in front of several armed people, they'll barely take any damage because they are so much higher level than them?

    As I said earlier, Elder Scrolls is a fun, adventurous romp. If you want an experience that is closer to 'how it would actually be' then you should play something like Dark Souls. You have to take games for what they are.

  5. #80
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    Thanks, that puts things in better perspective for me!

  6. #81
    professional sun praiser ROKUSHO's Avatar
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    theres a difference between lore, and actually seeing dragons ingame (there were no dragons in previous TES games.)
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  7. #82
    Grand Shriner N-12_Aden's Avatar
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    I just posted a link to the article of a dragon from Redguard. That is a Elder Scroll game. You fight him irc, says the player (Cyrus) defeats him.

  8. #83
    professional sun praiser ROKUSHO's Avatar
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    never beaten any TES game before morrowind so i didnt get the chance of getting to that point.
    however, it says it was the only one.
    the teaser trailer for skyrim points out that dragons "would come back"

  9. #84
    Grand Shriner N-12_Aden's Avatar
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    Redguard takes place a very long time before Skyrim.

    Redguard- 2nd era 864
    Oblivion- 3E 433
    Skyrim- 200 years after Oblivion

    So by the time of Skyrim many people would have forgotten about the actual existence of Dragons, hence the Return of Dragons. They would have been considered myth, since the last known dragon died in Tiber Septim's Reign.

  10. #85
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    One recurring complaint of Oblivion was that the enemies never got that large (Ogres and Atronachs were the biggest, but they were roughly man sized). With a world so large and barely civilised outside of the towns, it was disappointing that even when you foraged right out into the wilderness, you never met anything really big or bizarre. So in that context, the return of Dragons is welcome.
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  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by N-10_Aden View Post
    Redguard takes place a very long time before Skyrim.

    Redguard- 2nd era 864
    Oblivion- 3E 433
    Skyrim- 200 years after Oblivion
    yes, i actually knew that.

    let me say it again: the teaser pointed out dragons would "come back", they "should have acted, the TES foretold their coming"

  12. #87
    Grand Shriner N-12_Aden's Avatar
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    Ok, couldnt tell if that was a question

  13. #88
    Grand Shriner N-12_Aden's Avatar
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    Release time, New content

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  14. #89
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    I don't know how people are leveling so quickly.

    I've put around 16 hours into Skyrim and I'm only a level 11 Breton mage.


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  15. #90
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    The way the system works, its easy to level up if you set your mind to it. Its certainly easy to get certain skills up. For example, Want to increase Block - just find any enemy and block against it - forever! Theoretically, you could stand blocking against the first enemy you meet and get yourself up to 100 Block, levelling up every now and then. Get hold of some buff/heal spells, and you can level those up in the same fight as well.

    Anyway, my thoughts on the game thus far are as follows:
    Well, to me, it just seems like Bethesda's other games - i.e it looks very nice, and the world is impressively large and all that. But the quests are boring and the characters are uniformly uninteresting. I continue to find Bethesda's writing utterly souless and amateurish, compared to that of Bioware, Obsidian etc. They just don't write characters and quests that it is possible to really care about.

    Basically, this game lives and dies on the exploration and dungeon crawling (which is just fine). You could take all the characters out of this game, replace them with generic shopkeepers called 'Blacksmith', 'Shopkeeper', 'Wizard Trainer' etc, so you could get supplies and spells etc, and I don't feel you would really lose anything. Because the story (in both the main and side quests) is so uninspiringly written. I just don't care about what is happening in Skyrim, and I certainly don't care about the whole Dragonborn thing. The real killer is that I actually am very interested in what is happening in the Empire and how the Thalmor have muscled in, but that just underscores my frustration at being out here in the boondocks, hundreds of thousands of miles away from where the real action (that I care about) is at!

    The game does look very impressive at times though. Perhaps not a technical marvel, but on a grand scale the soaring mountains and dragons swooping about is impossible not to admire. Those moments and those times when you are hewing your way through trap and monster filled dungeons are when this game really comes alive. But that isn't really enough for me, and I'm finding the game to be very heavy going as a result. As I say, I'm really disappointed at how banal and flat the quests and characters are, and Bethesda's writing especially for evil characters borders on the utterly childish.

    The 'Guild' quests that I've tried have been underwhelming too. Completed the Mage's Academy, and it would have felt like the biggest anticlimax of all time, except for the fact that all the rest of it was incredibly dull as well. I did get a kick out of the Dark Brotherhood trying to recruit me though, only for me to wipe them all out. Feared assassins indeed - lol!

    I don't hate the game, but it feels like I'm punching the clock on it, rather than enjoying it. Turn it on, log a few hours, feel like I'm making some progress, turn it off and then think 'Wow, I kind of don't want to play that game again...'

  16. #91
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    Skyrim isn't nearly as good as New Vegas, I think. I liked Fallout 3 more as well, really.

    And yeah, levelling up is incredibly easy. A bunch of skills go up pretty fast (especially smithing) and it's pretty easy to exploit the system. You can leave the tutorial with several skills at 100 because of an exploit.
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  17. #92
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    They've taken so many of Obsidian's improvements to the overall experience of these games out of Skyrim. Conversations aren't quite back to the Fujin style interface of Oblivion where you'd walk up to someone and say 'WORK?', 'TOWN?', 'GUILDHALL?' but its not far off. To be fair to Bethesda, they did make the improvements first in Fallout 3, but Obsidian refined them to the point where the dialogue felt real and nuanced. Now its back to 'Is there any work?', 'What's this town like?' etc etc.

    And unkillable NPCs... *Why* did they put these in the game, after New Vegas showed how you could get by without them? If people want to go on a killing spree, then they have to accept that they may kill quest givers (and New Vegas at least flagged up when you did this, in case you wanted to change your mind and reload). But no, unkillable quest givers are back, leading to all kinds of farcical situations where you have no option but to run away bevause no matter how many thousands of times you down the guy, you cannot defeat him (and its not like they are legendary warriors - the only remarkable thing about most of these characters is that they offer quests).

    Plus the penalties for accidently hitting allies who insist on throwing themselves in front of you during fights is as harsh as ever. They instantly turn hostile, with guards dropping everything in the middle of fighting a dragon which is assaulting their city, to arrest you on the spot, take you to jail, bail you and then you all rejoin the fight!

    Basically, the game world has only the barest semblance of reality to it. The illusion is easy to break, even when you're not trying to (and its all the more jarring in those circumstances). There's hardly any choice in the quests beyond doing the quest or not doing it, and hardly any quest has events with far reaching consequences.

    To call this game shallow is to demean the word - add in the non degrading weapons and armour, recharhing health, absent core stats, lack of stat requirements to use most weapons and spells... the whole thing is just a dispiritingly mainstream oriented and dumbed down experience.

  18. #93
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    The biggest problem I have with the game is that a lot of the locations don't feel lived in. The forts and the camps feel designed rather than natural. One example is a bandit fort with a prison full of spiders. There's several dead bandits down there, but the bandits living up top in the fortress don't seem to give a shit. The bandits don't mention it in their throwaway lines. Instead, they were just talking about cleaning up their act and paying their fines as I snuck around them. There's no diary (I don't care how contrived this can be) saying, "Well, today, a few of our friends went down to kill the spiders and they all died." They handled this sort of situation much better with the large ants inhabiting the basement of that school in Fallout 3. There was an entry in the terminal by a raider that acknowledged the situation and this "Dear Diary..." thing was justified by his interest in learning how to use the terminal.

    It's just pretty rare to find a backstory like this in the game. Sometimes you'll find diaries in dungeons, but it's not as prevalent and never as interesting as it was in New Vegas and even FO3.

    Oh, and speech checks are handled so much worse than they were in New Vegas. That was such a great aspect of that game, but it's rarely touched upon in Skyrim. What a let down, man.

    The game is fun enough though, I enjoyed my time with it.

  19. #94
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    Okay, so I guess by now, its pretty obvious that I am not the world's greatest fan of this game. I continue to see it as a generally backwards step for reasons I have already stated. But I don't want to sell the game short and just come across as some malcontent, griping for the sheer crochety joy of it. There were a couple of things I did like about the game, so I might as well fess up to them.

    1) The Daedra Quests.
    When I came to make my character, I spent like an hour on the character creation screen. My overwhelming instinct was to make a Lawful Good/Neutral Paladin style character. A sword and shield, heavy armour, light buffs and healing magic 'righter of wrongs' kind of guy, who helped the weak and punished the wicked. Because I always do this in this kind of game. But I promised myself earlier this year, that I was going to attend some 'Paladins Anonymous' meetings, and try to kick the habit, or at least broaden my horizons a little (I do play other characters in these games, but my canon and/or first character is usually a Paladin). So I finally settled on a dedicated spellcaster, and resolved to be a cannibalistic, bathing in blood, ritual dagger wielding, demon summoning, deceitful, monstrous, hate filled wretch of a person.

    And I'm really glad that I did, because if I did my usual character, then I never would have gotten to play through the various Daedra quests (you can turn against the Daedra in a handful of them, but mostly they are serve the Daedra quests). And I have to say, that whilst I don't rate most of the quests in this game at all, I really enjoyed most of the Daedra ones. Many of them are played for laughs (its pretty black humour though), and I just find the general quality of the quests better. The ideas behind them, the actual execution of the quests, the laugh out loud moments (usually when some poor NPC sap gets horribly killed), and some genuinely powerful scenes (also usually when an NPC is horribly killed, but when the moment is played straight and not for laughs).

    The writing of the evil characters is still pretty silly, and the voice acting for the Daedra princes is mostly OTT scenery chewing, but most seem to pitch it just on the right side of cheesy, and/or produce a performance that is appropriate to the tone of the quest (because as I say, some are played for laughs, others are not). But whichever way you slice it, these quests are the best in the game hands down for me. Without them, I would have given up on this game much, much sooner. And the artifacts you get usually rule too...

    2) Falkwreath.
    Its kind of strange that I like this place so much, considering that its one of the sleepier areas of the game world. Not a hell of a lot actually happens in this town, but its still by far my favourite of the towns. Usually cloaked in mist and fog, there's a really sombre feel about Falkwreath that works very well for me. A mate suggested (and I think he's right) that I might like it because it looks the least like the rest of Skyrim (its far to the south, so there's not much snow, not as many mountains, more greenery and just less 'vikingness' than in other areas).

    But it isn't just the visuals. The huge graveyard is there because of war casualties, and its probably the only place in the game that really deals with that side of things, the cost of war etc. In other places, its all politics and macho chest beating about glorious battle and so on, but this town seems to express the drama in more down to earth fashion, which is very refreshing. There's a journel you can find written by the priest and its really powerful stuff, as he writes about his crisis of faith having had to bury a young man who came through town recently, charmed everyone with what a decent young man he was, then was ambushed and killed on the road by bandits who tossed him in a ditch after robbing and murdering him a few days later.

    It just seems like the locations and some of the quests surrounding Falkwreath have more 'heart', of a kind that I wish the game had more of. So much of this game is 'let's turn it up to eleven, man!' spectacle and sound and thunder, but this quiet little town does more for me than any number of dragons and fighting, singing vikings ever could.

    With one exception anyway...

    3) The Theme Music.
    Because this really is great. A choir of what sounds like big, hearty vikings, bellowing at the tops of their voices, a song that inspires thoughts of heroism and adventure in the kind of way that these songs are supposed to, but usually just end up sounding cheesy and samey to other Lord of the Rings style stuff. This is cut from that same cloth, but the sheer gusto of the singers makes you want to move up North, paint uour face blue, start calling yourself Sven Hrothgar and go out looking for trouble with a double headed axe.

    Its great stuff, and I always let it play out a bit before I hit Load.

    So anyway, that's some of the things that I did like about Skyrim. I know I haven't been the most positive of people about this game, and I still consider it a big disappointment. But the game does get some things right, and I did at least enjoy those aspects. Like most of Bethesda's games, I see it as a good starting point, but I'd want them to go back over everything, and add much more personality and depth. But hey, it is what it is.

  20. #95
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    sooo... any favorite mods?
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  21. #96
    Grand Shriner ThroneofOminous's Avatar
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    I played the game for about 20 hours over the first 5 days it was released and then stopped. The game is huge and visually stunning, but it has about zero depth. Once mountaineering on horseback lost its novelty it was pretty much all over.

    For the record though, I loved the game for all those 20 hours before I realizing how shallow it was. If you like wandering around a lot and crafting items you don't need with your practically infinite supply of money, this is the game for you.

  22. #97
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    I agree, but the push this game is getting means we shouldn't be surprised if its named Game of the Year. Which would be a disaster, as it would continue to cement the idea in developer's minds that like Mass Effect 2, RPGs should stop trying to be RPGs and just be action games with very little depth below the glossy surface.

  23. #98
    Grand Shriner ThroneofOminous's Avatar
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    Look at the WRPGs that were released this year. That battle's already lost, dude. Next to Deus Ex: Human Revolution, Dungeon Siege 3 and The Witcher 2, Skyrim is practically a hardcore pnp-style RPG.

  24. #99
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    You're right of course, but its still utterly depressing...

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    Elder Scrolls V Skyrim Discussion Thread

    Just to check... Am I the only one who always reads "Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim" like a bout between Elder Scrolls and Skyrim? Like "Marvel VS Capcom" or "Spy vs Spy". I do hope not.

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