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Thread: Why do so many people hate this game????

  1. #176
    If you have the greatest aim, keep it in your soul Almír's Avatar
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    you Almir are entitled to your opinion, I'm entitled to mine and everyone else who either responded in this thread or on this whole forum, have their own opinion and yes they are not all going to be the same. While I may disagree with your opinion (or others), that's your choice and believe it or not, I respect that. Just don't talk down to others who disagree with you.
    I know all this. It may seem that I don't, but I do. I'm actually pretty easy going regarding other people's opinions.

    You've been negative to almost every one of my posts in this thread... and as a accumulative effect, has annoyed me. Hence my response so far.
    As Raven in Tekken says: It's just business. Don't take it personally.

    You like KOTOR, I think it's just another pathetic spinoff. You hate FFXIII, I on the other hand thought it was good (only good- I can put things into perspective). Looking at it that way there is little wonder that we were negative to each others view points.

    Not going to bother PMing you.
    Oh, goodie.

    You must accept some of the blame as well Almir.
    Fine.

    Of course if others like the game that's fine with me.I hope others respect people who like the game.Likewise I hope people who dislike it will respect those who feel differently.

    smiles and walks away...
    I'm cool with that. In fact I don't really mind if people disagree with my view. I just say my opinions in my way. If other people find that insulting, I apologise but I'm just putting across my view. I have no intention of disrespecting others.
    Let's just hope the future games are an improvement.
    It certainly wouldn't hurt.
    Omnia mala terra excitabat

  2. #177
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    Angry:
    I think you're taking my comments much more seriously than they were intended. My comments were merely intended to show my frustration that Square might take (what I consider to be) a massively regressive step and put towns and NPCs with nothing to say, back into their games.

    Don't get wrong, I'm all for NPCs that do add something - WRPGs for example, only let you talk to NPCs who have something relevant to plot, side quests, game history etc etc to say. JRPGs have often allowed you to talk to absolutely everyone, of which hardly any had anything of substance to say.

    But on the subject of improvement... well, we have to agree to disagree, because as I've said, I'm fine with the recent installments.

    As to Square listening to fan's complaints - well as I've said, that's how most of the mechanics and style of FF13 came about, directly contrasting the equally criticised elements of FF12. It isn't an approach that works. Fans are never a reliable or useful source of inspiration. They will never reach any consensus, but everyone will still claim that their suggestions are 'accepted by everyone who isn't stupid' as the obvious things to do.

    And besides, the game sold massively, and the home audience (i.e Japanese) fans and critics both loved the game to pieces. The sequel is being made because of popular demand, so why would they feel the need to make sweeping changes? Western gamers aren't into JRPGs at the moment, so unless the game is legitimately the greatest JRPG ever, it isn't going to get much lasting traction at the moment.

  3. #178
    Under the Influence Aniki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vrykolas View Post
    Precisely - I'm not sure what you're getting at there, Aniki. What evidence do you need, beyond common sense, seeing as the fact is the games are totally different in style, tone and gameplay?
    I've read a lot of articles concerning the development of FF XIII, and I don't remember anything regarding SE addressing the comments about FF XII. That is why I asked for links, otherwise I'll disregard what you call common sense as mere guess. These days I notice a lot of people making stuff up based on their guesses.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vrykolas View Post
    (There is also the fact that I'm absolutely hopeless with computers and couldn't post a link if my life depended on it - see my lack of an Avatar; it isn't because I don't believe in them...)
    You were able to join this forum going through all that registration and account activation, but you don't know how to post a link?...Funny.

    Every time you press reply or reply with quote you should see this icon above the text you input. Press it and a pop up will show up asking you to enter the the URL. All you gotta do is go to the web page which link you want to add to your post copy it's link and paste it there.

  4. #179
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    No, I honestly don't know how to post links. Go back through my posts and show me one instance where I have ever used a link, or used that feature where you can quote people's words (as you just did), or posted a picture in my post or signature, or have ever had an Avatar.

    I know next to nothing of how PCs or any other console works. I am content just to use them, I don't care about how they actually work. So long as I know enough to do what I want to do on them, that's good enough for me.


    And not this again... just look at the evidence! If they weren't addressing fan and critic's concerns about FF12, it's one hell of a coincidence that FF13 does the exact opposite to FF12 in every single department! To go from the most free roaming FF in years (if indeed its not in fact the most free roaming full stop), to the most linear is a leap from one end of the spectrum to the other.

    You call it guesswork, I call it analysis of the available facts. I prefer to make my own appraisal of what is going on in a game and how it works, rather than have dubiously qualified magazine hacks and disengenous developers do it for me. I have a background in critical analysis of literature, film, television and theatre. Video games are a newer art form, but they are no different IMO.

    Its common knowledge that the Japs are struggling against the West in all forms of games at the moment. The old joke they used to make was 'All games made in the West are s**t.' But they aren't saying that now, not because they necessarily have any more respect for our games (big western franchises continue to perform poorly in Japan), but because their products no longer sell in Europe and the US, at least not in the volume they used to, and not to the critical raves they used to get.

    So they're trying harder to appeal to the west in their games now, but their understanding of what we like in our games and how we like them to look, is very dodgy (just as we look at the hardcore Jap games and think 'What on *Earth* is all this?' I still think that Square is by far the most forward looking of the current JRPG producing developers, as the systems and general presentation of games by Namco, Nippon Ichi, Mistwalker etc are all looking well out of date IMO.

    Look, I trust my abilities as a critical thinker, and I don't feel I need industry experts putting similar thoughts down in black and white to 'vindicate' me. But people all have their own opinions, so I happily listen to them and respect their right to hold them (and if they say something I agree with, especially if I hadn't thought of it, I say so).


    Oh, I just noticed you included how to post links in your post (my eyes must have temporarily blinded me earlier, out of terror at how technical it all looked). But cheers for that anyway, I'll make it into this century one day...

  5. #180
    jen' jari iv tave sith Darth Revan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Almír View Post
    I know all this. It my seem that I don't, but I do. I'm actually pretty easy going regarding other people's opinions.
    ... and yet you were readily against my own opinon.

    As Raven in Tekken says: It's just business. Don't take it personally.
    When someone references my posts or refers to something I say, I do take it personally, especially if the person in question is either quoting me out of text or having shots at me. Guess I'm just funny that way.

    You like KOTOR, I think it's just another pathetic spinoff. You hate FFXIII, I on the other hand thought it was good (only good- I can put things into perspective). Looking at it that way there is little wonder that we were negative to each others view points.
    I don't consider KotOR a spinoff in similar comparison to say... the Compilation of FFVII/Ivalice Collection etc. KotOR was a original idea set far apart (chronologically speaking) from the era in Star Wars everyone knows. X-Wing, TIE Fighter, Dark Forces etc are spinoffs... as they are set during the same time period and/or have the same characters in them. KotOR isn't set in the same time period as Luke, Leia, Vader or the others and has a original cast of characters.

    Look at the scores between the two of them as well...

    Computer and Video Games gave KotOR 9.0/10, whereas they gave FFXIII 9.2/10. Eurogamer gave KotOR 9/10 and for FFXIII 8/10. IGN gave KotOR 9.5/10 and FFXIII 8.9/10. On sites like Gamerankings and Metacritic gave both a slightly different score... Gamerankings gave KotOR 93.25%, FFXIII 85.17% for PS3 and 82.18% for Xbox 360. Metacritic, KotOR 93/100 for PC and 94/100 for Xbox, and for FFXIII 83/100 for PS3 and 82/100 for Xbox 360. Now, granted I don't pay much attention to 'official' reviews... I tend to listen more to either other gamers or friends who've played the game (whether to 100% completion or not).

    KotOR has seen success as the game of the year from many sources including IGN, Computer Gaming World, PC Gamer, GMR Magazine, The Game Developers Choice Awards, Xbox Magazine, and G4. According to the review aggregator Metacritic the PC version received an average score of 93 based on 33 reviews. Interactive Achievement Awards awarded it for Best Story and Best Character Development. IGN gave KotOR additional awards in Best Sound (Xbox category), Best Story (PC category), Xbox RPG Game of the Year 2003, PC RPG Game of the Year 2003, Xbox Game of the Year 2003, PC Game of the Year 2003, and Overall Game of the Year 2003 across all platforms. In 2007, IGN listed it at #27 on its list of the Top 100 Games of All-Time. In 2010, IGN placed the game at #3 on its Best games of the Decade (2000–2009), beaten by Shadow of the Colossus and Half Life 2.

    At the 2004 Game Developers Choice Awards, HK-47 won the category of "Original Game Character of the Year". In 2007, the plot twist in KotOR was ranked number two in Game Informer's list of the top ten video game plot twists of all time and number 10 on Screwattack's "Top 10 OMGWTF Moments". The game is also part of The Xbox Platinum Series/Classics for sales in excess of 1 million units. The Los Angeles Times listed Knights of the Old Republic as one of the most influential works of the Star Wars Expanded Universe. In 2010, Game Informer named the game the 54th best game on their Top 200 Games of All Time list.

    FFXIII meanwhile has received only one award nomination for best RPG of the year award nomination at the Spike Video Game Awards. Don't get me wrong, FFXIII has received praise for it's battle system, the pre rendered animation and soundtrack. However, the negatives towards FFXIII, far outweigh it's positives. The linear nature of the game, especially in the first ten chapters on Cocoon, an issue which many felt was compounded by the large reduction of towns and interaction with non-player characters. Edge magazine (known for their editorial stances, industry contacts, yearly awards etc) gave FFXIII a score of 5/10, primarily due to it's linear nature.

    For sources about the above, go check out wikipedia for confirmation.

    Oh, goodie.
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  6. #181
    Grand Shriner N-12_Aden's Avatar
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    KOTOR is a PATHETIC SPINOFF???? What fucking rock have I been under since 2006. Btw Revan way to go on actually using facts rather than opinion.

  7. #182
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    KOTOR is a game that is best compared to FF7 rather than FF13, because it was a title that opened up its genre to a whole new generation of fans. For many people (particularly those whose rarely use PCs for gaming), KOTOR is probably the first WRPG they played, or at least the first one they really liked.

    It was accesible enough to attract big audiences, made good use of the much beloved Star Wars franchise, and was complex enough to not instantly alienate the hardcore PC crowd. Good story and voice acting was the icing on the cake. And FF7 was similarly a breakout title for JRPGs.

    The difference years on, is that the format of KOTOR (or WRPG's in general) is still considered viable. JRPGs have not weathered so well, so whilst FF13 may be a good JRPG, but it is still, when you get right down to it, a JRPG, and they are not popular now. WRPGs meanwhile have only increased in popularity.

    Both KOTOR and FF7 are held in high regard by their respective fans and by critics in general. FF13 is not a breakout title, and in that regard, it can be compared to titles like Jade Empire and Dragon Age 2 - titles that if critics are pressed, they will concede there are merits to, but which they don't really have that much interest in.

  8. #183
    If you have the greatest aim, keep it in your soul Almír's Avatar
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    Sarcasm... the last resort of the weak minded.
    It was a movie quote. You'll have to excuse me, I am prone to such flights of fancy. The situation seemed to fit the quotation like a glove.

    Your impressive display of knowledge concerning KOTOR was indeed inspiring, however I wasn't really that interested enough to read through it all. Please forgive me but I'm sure that you understand, having the same opinion on FFXIII as I do on KOTOR.

    ... and yet you were readily against my own opinon.
    Readily is not how I would describe it. It just turns out that I disagree with your opinions. It happens. I wouldn't waste my time directly attacking everything you say. That's why I said "Don't take it personally". I've nothing against you as a person (how could I? I don't even know you) or even your manner, I merely disagree with your sentiment. I apologise if this frustrates you but it just seems to be the case.

    KOTOR is a PATHETIC SPINOFF????
    From my point of view. I've never played such drivel in my life. However, it does have some redeeming factors:
    - It's a good cure for insomnia
    - If ever one gets bored of losing in Tekken, they would only have to think of KOTOR and find a new well of resolve to keep their Tekken fighters kicking. They would do anything rather than go back to such monotony.
    - It helps actors dramatise a tragedy. One would only have to think of this game to bring tears to their eyes.

    What was George Lucas thinking, letting this thing be released? Personally, I think he's gone barmy.

    Let me reassure you, I wasn't being a smart alec just then, I was just expressing my views in my own way. I'm sure we all have our own idiosyncrasies.

    titles that if critics are pressed, they will concede there are merits to, but which they don't really have that much interest in.
    I would conceed to this point for both FFXIII and KOTOR. I would never see KOTOR in the same way as the FF series. They can't even begin to be compared to each other. They belong to two different genres, that would be akin to oil and water. It would be futile to even begin hashing out this line of argument.

    Both KOTOR and FF7 are held in high regard by their respective fans and by critics in general.
    Agreed, but science fiction and fantasy games are approached in a vastly different almost opposing manner.

  9. #184
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    I'm not comparing the games themselves, I'm comparing their status as breakout titles, both to fans and to critics.

    Comparing scores of games that came out so far apart is rarely helpful. Games are never scored on merit alone at the best of times, with all kinds of other considerations beyond the ones I've already mentioned going into the mix (such as how much does the reviewer like the genre, the need to pander to their reader's predjudicies, the need to ingratiate themselves to important developers etc etc).

    That being said, I have no doubt that if you pressed them for an answer, most western critics would say even now, that either they preferred KOTOR or had no preference because they just don't care about RPGs. Whereas most (if not all) eastern critics would say they preferred FF13 and probably had no opinion at all about KOTOR (because its a western game and as I mentioned before, their stock response is that all western games are s**t).

  10. #185
    jen' jari iv tave sith Darth Revan's Avatar
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    I wasn't going to bother responding to your post... until I read the following and felt the need to do so. I will offer a counterpoint to each of yours.

    Quote Originally Posted by Almír View Post
    From my point of view. I've never played such drivel in my life.
    That's your opinion, and a lot of people (myself included disagree with it) but it is indeed your own opinion. I've played your 'oh so vaunted' Tekken, and yet, I've gotten far more enjoyment out of playing Kessen II (Which does a poor retelling of the novel Romance of the Three Kingdoms, which was based on actual events) than Tekken.

    - It's a good cure for insomnia
    I disagree quite vehemently with this, as the story itself is quite good. It has ties to the Sith War of Exar Kun and Ulic Qel-droma's (set 50 years prior to the game) and introduces a new protaganist and his journey to not just redemption, but eventual return to the Unknown Regions to fight what he originally set out to do when he chose to fall to the Dark Side. Add in his capable general, The Exile, from KotORII TSL following him.... is typical scifi/Star Wars fare. Lays the groundwork for The Old Republic MMO slated for release early next year.

    - If ever one gets bored of losing in Tekken, they would only have to think of KOTOR and find a new well of resolve to keep their Tekken fighters kicking. They would do anything rather than go back to such monotony.
    Again with Tekken? Meh, Dynasty Warriors is superior. At least DW has a story (Based on the afforementioned novel written by Luo Guanzhong), being based on the Civil War in Ancient China circa 170AD - 280AD.

    - It helps actors dramatise a tragedy. One would only have to think of this game to bring tears to their eyes.
    KotOR's story, tale of one's redemption and coming to terms with their past, is a tragedy. However, it's stereotypical of the Star Wars storyline... and if it works, it works.

    What was George Lucas thinking, letting this thing be released? Personally, I think he's gone barmy.
    George Lucas lost the plot with Star Wars The Force Unleashed I and II... making them canon with the series is something I personally can not understand. KotOR on the otherhand, was a different change of pace. Set in a different time period, with different characters etc... allows more free reign in making a story. Not much is truly known of the Old Republic era, only bits and pieces here and there, so instead of making a game with Luke and Co. in their time frame where one would have to follow guidelines etc for how to have them (Look at Star Wars Jedi Academy... set after Luke's Jedi Academy is up and running, with Luke, Kyle Katarn, Wedge Antilles and even Chewbacca running around). With KotOR, BioWare was allowed to create a fresh chapter (With reference to The Sith War, thanks to Jolee Bindo talking about Nomi Sunrider and others) to add to the Old Republic era and they succeeded. With the upcoming MMO, The Old Republic, there is a vested interest in this era of Star Wars history not just by BioWare/Lucasarts, but also many fans of Star Wars/sci fi in general.

    Let me reassure you, I wasn't being a smart alec just then, I was just expressing my views in my own way. I'm sure we all have our own idiosyncrasies.
    True enough. My view is that KotOR IS a good game and is deserving of the praise it has received. FFXIII has only been praised for it's graphics (which do not make a game in itself), battle system which is flawed (Having no control over your party, only the party leader and if they die it's game over. I prefer being able to set my party up how I want and have them do exactly what I say via the traditional battle system from earlier FF's) and the mediocre soundtrack (which fails when compared to earlier FF soundtracks). The characters, to me, are not memorable whatsoever and I'm unable to form any attachment to them whatsoever. At least KotOR's cast were a well balanced cast, with a great soundtrack.

    I would conceed to this point for both FFXIII and KOTOR. I would never see KOTOR in the same way as the FF series. They can't even begin to be compared to each other. They belong to two different genres, that would be akin to oil and water. It would be futile to even begin hashing out this line of argument.
    ... yet you compare KotOR and Tekken together.... KotOR and FFXIII are both RPG's. Only difference being KotOR is a Action RPG/WRPG, wheras XIII is a JRPG. At the core, they are fundamentally the same though, just like every other RPG (whether WRPG or JRPG).

  11. #186
    If you have the greatest aim, keep it in your soul Almír's Avatar
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    yet you compare KotOR and Tekken together....
    Actually I didn't, not really, I was only using Tekken as a reference to what game I personally would become bored continuously losing in (I'm sure other can identify), but I'll let that slide.

    Again with Tekken? Meh, Dynasty Warriors is superior. At least DW has a story (Based on the afforementioned novel written by Luo Guanzhong), being based on the Civil War in Ancient China circa 170AD - 280AD.
    Tekken has a story too. It even has a movie. Where as DW may be better (I wouldn't know as I haven't played it) it isn't because it has a story.

    I've played your 'oh so vaunted' Tekken,
    Oh so vaunted, did I say or imply that?

    Which one?

    Not to be rude but out of consideration for the administrators, moderators and other users I will not respond any more on this topic on this thread. This thread has now been twisted beyond recognition due to our discussion and I feel that it is past time that we returned to the matter at hand.

    I'm not comparing the games themselves, I'm comparing their status as breakout titles, both to fans and to critics.
    My apologies, I misunderstood. For what it's worth I agree with your sentiment.

  12. #187
    Grand Shriner N-12_Aden's Avatar
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    Ok im getting this thread back on track, so basically they stuck with a somewhat faster combat system (like x-2?), removed NPC interaction (no towns right?), based the main character on cloud, made it as linear as COD, and just played it safe generally?

  13. #188
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    How is removing towns and NPCs, (which was sure to upset hardcore JRPG fans), and treating the combat system as something that is just as important as the story and characters, 'playing it safe'?

    That's 'taking a chance' in anyone's books, surely? Even the critics who were most critical of this game still had to hold their hands up and applaud Square for trying something new.

    And from what you say, it appears you haven't played the game *at all*, yet you're making statements about it? Well, that's a bit far even for me to let slide. You should at least have played some of it!

    I'm sorry if this seems to be getting us back on the wrong track again, but I just don't see how we can have constructive debates about this game under these kinds of circumstances. You don't have to play all of it, as a game's inability to grip to the end is a talking point in and of itself. But like I say, if you haven't actually played any of it, then how can you have any but the most general of speculations about it?

  14. #189
    Grand Shriner N-12_Aden's Avatar
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    Um yeah I know I havent played the damn thing yet, im just trying to get the consesus around here. Notice the question mark so dont flame on me for asking.

    ---------- Post added 07-13-2011 at 12:04 AM ---------- Previous post was 07-12-2011 at 11:56 PM ----------

    I should have said the combat system was playing it safe, so my bad on that. I wasnt really proofreading.

  15. #190
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    That's fine, but my point was that I don't think anyone here (or anywhere at all, at least that I've seen), accused the game of playing it safe. That's the one thing it definately doesn't do!

    Your statement is still wildly inaccurate even if you only apply it to the combat system. The combat is by far the thing that the critics liked the best about the game, and is significantly more engaging from my personal perspective, than the vast majority of JRPGs from recent times. Only Star Ocean has better JRPG combat IMO.

    Again, the opinions of western gamers who are out of love with JRPGs to start with, is not a good place to try and find truth. Eastern fans and critics from East and West all loved the combat. But the combat is something you must play the majority of the game to fully appreciate, because the system doesn't fully open up until the last third of the game.

    That is a problem by itself, as the game should never have made gamers wait that long for free roaming, party select, access to all paradigms for all squad members etc etc. But almost without exception, those later levels have been praised by the gamers who did stick it out, as being worth the wait and by far the most enjoyable areas of the game.

    The game makes lots of very awkward artistic decisions that make it inaccesible in the extreme until these late stages. It is the very defjnition of a game that is not playing it safe.

    Again, I'm not trying to have a go, I'm really not. Its just frustrating to see people with (IMO) a skewed understanding of what this game is like, because they either haven't played it at all, or haven't played enough of it to reach the sections where it all clicks into place (the 'sweet spot' of the game as Edge magazine put it).

  16. #191
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    I had my mind in the extremes at the time so im talking about like not using FF12 style battles, Keeping the battle system fairly in-line with most of the series in my kinda werid opinion but I get what your saying and I respect the fact you wanted this thread to get back on track, Thats why I didnt post some ultra-inflammatory remark like this game sucks balls or something of that nature.

    ---------- Post added at 12:33 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:12 AM ----------

    I never even said the game was bad, I was just trying to break it down. I actually like what I have seen with combat so after I play LA Noire and send it back I will be finding out for myself and come back then. Oh and btw im trying to go in spoiler free but what do you mean awkward artistic choice. Just PM me please so I can stop making an ass out of myself lol.

  17. #192
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    I'm PM you about it tomorrow (very tired now!).

    I just wanted to clarify something - my issue with what you were saying is that 'Playing it Safe' sounds really, really bad. Its one of the sternest criticisms you can make about any game IMO, so I hope understand why I'm so keen to follow up on that point. Because I honestly don't think it applies, and whilst there are many valid criticisms to be made about this game, charging it with playing things safe, is very unfair and very damaging any game's image.

    Because it makes it sound like the developers just cranked out yet another JRPG, and for better or worse, this is one of the most unique JRPGs in years and years.

  18. #193
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vrykolas View Post
    Angry:
    I think you're taking my comments much more seriously than they were intended. My comments were merely intended to show my frustration that Square might take (what I consider to be) a massively regressive step and put towns and NPCs with nothing to say, back into their games.

    Don't get wrong, I'm all for NPCs that do add something - WRPGs for example, only let you talk to NPCs who have something relevant to plot, side quests, game history etc etc to say. JRPGs have often allowed you to talk to absolutely everyone, of which hardly any had anything of substance to say.

    But on the subject of improvement... well, we have to agree to disagree, because as I've said, I'm fine with the recent installments.

    As to Square listening to fan's complaints - well as I've said, that's how most of the mechanics and style of FF13 came about, directly contrasting the equally criticised elements of FF12. It isn't an approach that works. Fans are never a reliable or useful source of inspiration. They will never reach any consensus, but everyone will still claim that their suggestions are 'accepted by everyone who isn't stupid' as the obvious things to do.

    And besides, the game sold massively, and the home audience (i.e Japanese) fans and critics both loved the game to pieces. The sequel is being made because of popular demand, so why would they feel the need to make sweeping changes? Western gamers aren't into JRPGs at the moment, so unless the game is legitimately the greatest JRPG ever, it isn't going to get much lasting traction at the moment.
    No offense intended.
    Obviously Square realized they needed to make some changes otherwise why make any changes in FFXIII-2 ?
    They must be trying to appeal to someone and if the Japanese gamers are content with FF I assume gamers elsewhere aren't and they are trying to appeal to those gamers while still of course keeping their Japanese fanbase.
    I expect I will buy the game.I expect those improvements will be enough to make me like it more than FFXIII although I still don't like the button mashing.

  19. #194
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    Well, they always make some changes, don't they? FF always uses different systems, even when fans like a given system. And you've always got to make some changes, or the game will just be ripped to bits by critics as being the same game with a new story spray-painted on.

    To be fair though, the FF7 and onwards games are all by diifferent directors and producers. They all have their own styles and tones, for what certain systems may be too fast or too slow paced for what they have in mind. I think FF13-2 is using the same director though, so it'll be intersting to see exactly how he goes about it.

    And button mashing? The system doesn't require you to mash any button, one press of the relevant button and away you go. Button mashing is something like Jade Empire or Dragon Age 2.

    Besides which, I love me a good button basher. Give me a steady stream of rubbishy (but dirt cheap) action games, and I'm a happy man. All that AAA game gloss and polish gets so sickly, you can't beat a bit of honest to goodness scummy gaming!

    And no, I'm not saying FF13 is that!

  20. #195
    Under the Influence Aniki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vrykolas View Post
    And not this again... just look at the evidence! If they weren't addressing fan and critic's concerns about FF12, it's one hell of a coincidence that FF13 does the exact opposite to FF12 in every single department! To go from the most free roaming FF in years (if indeed its not in fact the most free roaming full stop), to the most linear is a leap from one end of the spectrum to the other.
    It's true that FF XIII and FF XII differ as night and day, but it doesn't prove that all the changes in FF XIII are the product of SE addressing the fan complaints about FF XII. Again, it's simply your guess and it's no different than, for instance, me saying that the reason that FF XIII is linear simply because it was developed by the same team that also developed FF X, which was also very linear.

  21. #196
    Grand Shriner
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    Well, it doesn't disprove it either, does it? There's only so many times a man can put IMO into his posts. I've already said that this is my appraisal of the situation, what more do you want?

    The same director as did FF13 was behind FF12: Revenant Wings and FFX-2, both of which are extremely non-linear, seeing as how you can try missions in pretty much any order, go wherever you like (you get the airship on the second level in RW, and the full world map is available almost immediately in FFX-2). There are different endings in that game, different ways scenarios can play based on what you did - all absolutely non linear.

    So whilst I have no confession letter signed in blood from the team, I'd submit that the director's past work would not prepare you for how linear FF13 is. Ergo, my belief (rightly or wrongly) that they were reacting to what was at the time, very strong criticism (from the fans at least), about FF12 style and systems.

    Short of going to Japan and dragging the guy here to testify one way or the other, I'm not sure what else I can do. I mean, I suppose I could do that. Hold on, just let me check the flight times...

    Stun gun - check, rope - check, japanese dictionary - check, interrogation flashlight - check...

    If I'm not back in a week, call the British Embassy.

  22. #197
    Onion Kid Aethryix's Avatar
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    FFXIII, what can I say about it. I thought it was okay, and I didn't really hate much of it. However, the world it takes place in feels bleak and lifeless, like the aftermath of an apocalypse. One reason I like Final Fantasy is because the worlds Square creates are usually bright and fantastic, but not really in this case. As for the characters, the only ones I had a problem with were Vanille for being annoying and Sazh for being the token black dude. I'm not being racist or anything, it's just it seems like he only exists so people don't accuse Square of being racist. The gameplay was over-complicated, mainly the combat system. All this nonsense about paradigms and ability orders and everything.. What was wrong with simply choosing "attack", "magic", or "item"? Fuck all that extra shit. The levels in FFXIII are too linear as well. You can't just go wherever you want, you can only go from point A to point B with several cutscenes in between. While playing, I sometimes wondered if I was playing a game or just watching a video of a game.
    Everything in this post is false.

    The above statement is a lie.

  23. #198
    Maybe we don't exist... Harkus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neg View Post
    Long time no see, Harkus.
    Yeah I know. Haven't been playing much FF lately and ended up drifting from this board. Plus I've been busy.
    Sorry Player, I'm Noriega crossed with Schwarzenegger
    The orphan maker, orchestrate your fate in a torture chamber

  24. #199
    Onion Kid kitkat1395's Avatar
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    "Why do so many people hate this game???" I don't, I've played quite a few different FF games (only my memory card formatted so now I have to play all the way through 10, 10-2 and 12 all over again -_-) and I only just started playing FF13 recently. I think I got used to FF12 (and before that FF10 and 10-2) because I found a lot of the new systems hard to understand at first - but I do like the storyline, the characters and the game itself. The only thing I miss is randomly wandering about without any idea where I am (what I did in previous games) and then randomly walking into a monster/battle... and then randomly dying....Or randomly ending up in some strange place... (I'm a random person...)

    The other FF games I've played are PS1 versions of FF4,5, and 7, and I sadly never completed them. But I plan on getting through the rest of 13, and as far as I know, not everyone hates 13 at all, one of my friends loved it to bits and recommended me to play it.

    *Yay that was my first post horay!*

  25. #200
    Lord of Curry Dragoncurry's Avatar
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    FF13 is a lot less painless than the random battles of FF4(sandworm encounters of ff4 that 1 shot you is pretty terrible memory) which makes it understandable that you liked playing FF13 more than FF4. Also, unless you're playing the DS 3d remake of FF4, the graphics can be hard on the eyes especially if you're getting into Final Fantasy. So I understand that you like ff13, but if they were both books, you'd read one and call another garbage. Sadly they're games and people of this generation of consoles and gaming want instant action/pretty graphics over decent stories.
    http://rageboxx.blogspot.com/

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