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Thread: Why do so many people hate this game????

  1. #226
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    What about the boring characters that i couldn't care less about? hope anyone? vanille and her happy happy uppety up?

    Selphie professional? what drugs are you on?

    She almost fell over when you first meet her.

    Of course,rinoa was an even bigger idiot trying to go after edea and causing her to get caught.

    As for raiden:He whines a lot in mgs2 and has a lot of fucking melodrama in mgs4.

    I can stand rinoa because she isn't too innocent and uppety up,but selphie who's future encarnation being vanille? NO WAY!!

    Maybe we are just two completely different people,i dunno.

  2. #227
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    Selphie is professional in as much as her sunny disposition and overly enthusiastic nature never prevent her from doing her job. When she is tasked with delivering the message to Seifer during the exam, she makes it across a warzone - by herself - and sucessfully delivers that message, plus she also helps Squall and Zell fight off the various dangers they encounter.

    When they are assigned to help Rinoa and the Forest Owls, she candidly voices her opinion that the operation is a bit of a joke and actively supports Squall putting his foot down on how haphazard it all is. And later on, when Trabia is bombed, she doesn't go running off alone to see what happened (as many RPG characters would). She waits until there is a quiet moment, then *asks* if they can go take a look.

    That all seems pretty professional to me. Being professional does not mean you have to go around frowning all the time. As long as you get the job done, and none of your squad mates find it off putting, who cares what you act like?

    And its pointless to criticise Rinoa too much - after all, she isn't a solider and she has (at the time she faces Edea), basically no practical experience of combat and how real the danger is. As she goes through the game, she gets a story thread where she starts to worry that she really isn't cut out for this sort of thing, and that she doesn't like fighting at all, and isn't any good at it. It does show her character growing up and learning the realities of war and conflict etc, but it all gets submerged by the love story and just how insane the game is by that point. I don't think she's one of the more liked heroines, but I didn't mind her. Its just a shame that her story shrinks to just being a latent sorceress and being Squall's love interest in the second part of that game.

    As for Vanille, she isn't happy - its an act she uses to try and forget the stuff she knows she is supposed to be doing, but doesn't want to do. Vanille and Sazh may seem upbeat and jolly, but they are actually the most scared and unhappy people in the whole game. Which is precisely why the game puts them together for so long. Her character *is* annoying, no doubt about it. But for me at least, its all about her awful voice acting and/or the director's handling of it. The actress is never any better than okay, and the *constant* round of squeaks and giggles from her is extremely wearing.

  3. #228
    you know my username and my avatar arent related Mercenary Raven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Revan View Post
    No, I'm not ignoring that. To you it may not be, but to myself and others it IS poor game design. It seems that when SE made FFXIII, they worked on the ending of the game FIRST... and the beginning LAST. Playing 11 boring ass chapters, and then left with 3 good ones is pathetic
    I'm still not sure what exactly your point is, then. You seem to attribute quantity of chapters to quantity of gameplay, which is the point I'm trying to make; don't. 3 chapters with tons of gameplay/chapter vs 11 chapters with little gameplay/chapter. Chapter 11 onwards is essentially the second half of the game, is what I am trying to say. (topopoz, this is also addressed at you; the first 20 hours are slow paced but the last 20-30+ hours are fast paced and filled with a bunch of missions).

    If the first 5 hours bored you, that's fine, but I'm not sure what you're trying to argue anymore. A good number of people loved FF13 and a good number of people hated it, its to be expected, you just seem to use your hatred of new games as a vehicle for riding SE's ass for constantly failing your expectations.

    Selphie professional? what drugs are you on?

    She almost fell over when you first meet her.
    How is falling at all relevant to being professional? Professionals can be clumsy.

    As for raiden:He whines a lot in mgs2 and has a lot of fucking melodrama in mgs4.
    Yes. Melodrama, right?. You tell me how you'd react when you are captured by some sentient AIs who replace pretty much your entire body from the jaw downwards, and then replaced every drop of blood in your head, on top of the trauma of being a child soldier and completely fucked around with in MGS2 as well as having to kill his own adoptive father. And then you find out that your girlfriend, finally after having verified her existence because you were fucked around with, had a miscarriage with your baby son (at least, that's what she told you) then married some fucking old guy who an AI disguised itself as to fuck around with you (resulting in more trauma). Yeah, some real fucking melodrama going on there.

    I'd say, Raiden is one of those few video game characters who I feel deserved the extremely happy ending he got. Have you even fucking played MGS or paid attention to the plot at least?


    You know what, Hope also whines because he saw his own mother die protecting him. And the guy that recruited her was some tough-talking idiot in a vigilante group (and I'm fairly sure all the kids were like "what an idiot" when they first saw Snow, too). And he's 14 years old. Do the math.
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  4. #229
    jen' jari iv tave sith Darth Revan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mercenary Raven View Post
    I'm still not sure what exactly your point is, then. You seem to attribute quantity of chapters to quantity of gameplay, which is the point I'm trying to make; don't. 3 chapters with tons of gameplay/chapter vs 11 chapters with little gameplay/chapter. Chapter 11 onwards is essentially the second half of the game, is what I am trying to say. (topopoz, this is also addressed at you; the first 20 hours are slow paced but the last 20-30+ hours are fast paced and filled with a bunch of missions).
    A game should have it's content flow from start to finish and keep it's audience entertained. XIII failed to keep ALL of the target audience (Fans of FF etc) interested in it... I don't just mean the chapter length etc... but also the characters, music, the overall plot... even the damn summons were abominations (a half assed hybrid of transformers and FF summons and we get TWO Shiva's who transform to a bike? wtf?!?!). SE tried to do something different with XIII... and to some they succeeded. To others though, they failed... miserably. I could also comment on the damn linearity of the game, but what's the point?

    If the first 5 hours bored you, that's fine, but I'm not sure what you're trying to argue anymore. A good number of people loved FF13 and a good number of people hated it, its to be expected, you just seem to use your hatred of new games as a vehicle for riding SE's ass for constantly failing your expectations.
    I seem to use my hatred of new games as a vehicle for.... I don't know whether to burst into a fit of rage or laugh my ass off at that. I've played FF ever since it was released here in Australia, and I've also played numerous RPG's over the years (even the traditional style AD&D games in high school), and from my own perspective, the quality of the FF games has signifcantly declined over the years. Far as I'm concerned the PS2 generation and onwards of FF, is the worst era... I don't include FFXI in that grouping (even though it was originally released on PS2 in Japan) as that's a MMORPG, which is a completely different animal compared to the console RPG's.

    If you like XIII, go ahead... enjoy yourself. From my perspective, it was utter garbage and wasn't worth the time or money I spent on it... and seeing brand new and sealed copies of it going for sale in at least four retail outlets for $10AUSD within a month of release (as well as comments from said retailers (which I won't detail as that's third person views) about how their customers have referred to it when returning it for a refund etc), says a LOT about it. I'd love it, if someone had actually done a survey of all the copies returned with the comments as to why they were returned, so I could refer to that in cases like this.

    Ultimately though... it's up to the individual in question whether they like this game (and it's parent company) or not. I tried three times to play FFXIII... and each time I tried, the characters/plot/battle system (yes, I hate the damn battle system)/etc etc etc made the game unplayable for me. The bad luck of the number 13 shines on FFXIII...

    ...but that's just my OWN opinion.

    EDIT: I do have my own valid reasons as to why I dislike SE... which AREN'T related to FFXIII at all.


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  5. #230
    you know my username and my avatar arent related Mercenary Raven's Avatar
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    A game should have it's content flow from start to finish and keep it's audience entertained. XIII failed to keep ALL of the target audience (Fans of FF etc) interested in it... I don't just mean the chapter length etc... but also the characters, music, the overall plot... even the damn summons were abominations (a half assed hybrid of transformers and FF summons and we get TWO Shiva's who transform to a bike? wtf?!?!). SE tried to do something different with XIII... and to some they succeeded. To others though, they failed... miserably. I could also comment on the damn linearity of the game, but what's the point?
    and from my own perspective
    You contradict yourself in the same post. You comment on how much the game objectively sucks -- which you should know damn well you can't really do -- to say "well, in my opinion, I liked it and you're free to like it too, but I hate SE." At least word yourself better, maybe people wouldn't respond to you as harshly as they do, considering you enjoy switching between stating something as opinion and stating something as fact (in terms of quality, that is).

  6. #231
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mercenary Raven View Post

    How is falling at all relevant to being professional? Professionals can be clumsy.

    If you are in combat you want to be as balanced as possible to keep on your feet and aware.
    Imagine if you are a complete and utter clutz and unaware of your surroundings ok?
    You wouldn't last very long.

    Yes. Melodrama, right?. You tell me how you'd react when you are captured by some sentient AIs who replace pretty much your entire body from the jaw downwards, and then replaced every drop of blood in your head, on top of the trauma of being a child soldier and completely fucked around with in MGS2 as well as having to kill his own adoptive father. And then you find out that your girlfriend, finally after having verified her existence because you were fucked around with, had a miscarriage with your baby son (at least, that's what she told you) then married some fucking old guy who an AI disguised itself as to fuck around with you (resulting in more trauma). Yeah, some real fucking melodrama going on there.

    I'd say, Raiden is one of those few video game characters who I feel deserved the extremely happy ending he got. Have you even fucking played MGS or paid attention to the plot at least?

    What about snake? he has 3 clones and he killed big boss and used as a pawn in a game for control.

    I feel more sorry for snake than raiden.
    Raiden's whole personality wasn't that likeable for me and you are allowed to like him but i don't.
    In fact,in mgs4:i end up missing frank jaegger as the ninja.

    I've beaten mgs2 many times and mgs4 at least 2 or 3 times.
    The ending is great to mgs2.

    You know what, Hope also whines because he saw his own mother die protecting him. And the guy that recruited her was some tough-talking idiot in a vigilante group (and I'm fairly sure all the kids were like "what an idiot" when they first saw Snow, too). And he's 14 years old. Do the math.
    Hope not only whines and cries a lot,he is a whimpering coward.
    He complains that he isn't strong enough to lead and finally i say:FINALLY!! you finally man up to lead.

  7. #232
    jen' jari iv tave sith Darth Revan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mercenary Raven View Post
    You contradict yourself in the same post. You comment on how much the game objectively sucks -- which you should know damn well you can't really do -- to say "well, in my opinion, I liked it and you're free to like it too, but I hate SE." At least word yourself better, maybe people wouldn't respond to you as harshly as they do, considering you enjoy switching between stating something as opinion and stating something as fact (in terms of quality, that is).
    Where have I stated/implied in any of my posts in this subforum about FFXIII "well, in my opinion, I liked it and you're free to like it too, but I hate SE"? I haven't shied away from stating my disgust with this game. To me, it has failed across the board with it's characters, music, battle system, plot, etc etc etc... As I stated, I TRIED to play this game THREE TIMES.... and each time while I may of gotten a bit further into the game than the last, there was nothing there to grab my attention and keep me interested in it.

    "People wouldn't respond to you as harshly as they do"... So, I have to tiptoe around and not rock the boat? Fuck that. FROM MY OWN PERSPECTIVE FFXIII was a travesty of a game, and while their are people who do enjoy it, I am not one of them. Why should I be, when I have my own legitimate reasons as to NOT like it? Did you even read all of my post (and understand it), or did you just skim it for what you wanted to use against me? If so, I pity you.

    Since I've been a member of this forum, I have tried to have my posts, which may contain opinions based on personal experiences that are not be meant to be taken as facts. What may appear as fact with no source reference may be recollection of information with no source, and may be subject to scrutiny without source reference. Any debate over validity of said facts without source references may be considered conjecture of all parties in that debate. Player comments may not be the expressed position/consent of SE, their affiliates, or any employees of said organizations. Please take these posts with a grain of salt if you are offended by the views of the player and understand that opinions are like assholes... everyone has one, not everyone wants to hear it.

  8. #233
    you know my username and my avatar arent related Mercenary Raven's Avatar
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    I'm not saying you should like it I'm just saying you should word your shit better so it doesn't seem like you're enforcing your view on others -- you do seem to give off the impression that ff13 is a completely crappy game that nobody should play (hyperbole, of course, but my point still stands, you shouldn't take everything that's said to you at face value since you clearly took my statements literally) and that anyone who plays it is only barely salvaging a dying company -- as opposed to speaking your own opinion. You've also said pretty much almost the exact same shit within that one post as you have throughout the thread, too. I am not condemning you or your viewpoint, merely the way you are wording it, because I loved FF13 but I always ask people if they like straight lines before I recommend it.

    Raiden's whole personality wasn't that likeable for me and you are allowed to like him but i don't.
    That's fine but saying that he has melodrama and whines too much is quite stupid considering the circumstances. If you left it at what you just said then you'd be fine.

    And yes, I felt bad for Snake as well. I feel bad for Raiden, but they both got their own happy endings and they both truly deserved it. I was merely talking about Raiden, I didn't mention any of the other characters in MGS who you just feel awful for.

    Hope not only whines and cries a lot,he is a whimpering coward.
    He's also 14. The rest of your point didn't make sense.

  9. #234
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    That's fine but saying that he has melodrama and whines too much is quite stupid considering the circumstances. If you left it at what you just said then you'd be fine.

    As i said:he still has far too much melodrama.
    He complains quite a bit about being weak and his past,but in the end there is not enough about him that i actually give a shit about hope,instead i hate him more.

    And yes, I felt bad for Snake as well. I feel bad for Raiden, but they both got their own happy endings and they both truly deserved it. I was merely talking about Raiden, I didn't mention any of the other characters in MGS who you just feel awful for.

    Raiden's whole thing of:am i dead? no i'm not he stabs himself and then turns into a robot seems kind of overly melodramatic.

    It was like they were trying to force you to simpathize with him.

    He's also 14. The rest of your point didn't make sense.[/QUOTE]

    Just because he's 14 doesn't mean he has to whine a lot.
    I've known 14 year olds who didn't whine that much.

  10. #235
    you know my username and my avatar arent related Mercenary Raven's Avatar
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    As i said:he still has far too much melodrama.
    You can't be melodramatic unless you're crying over spilled milk or something. Raiden isn't crying over spilled milk or anything; he's legitimately had an extremely shitty life and after being kidnapped, thinking his unborn child died and hearing that his girlfriend married some old guy... it really doesn't get worse. Especially because your entire existence -- not unlike Snake's -- was orchestrated from the moment he was born, and he wasn't even a clone of Big Boss like Snake was.

    Raiden's whole thing of:am i dead? no i'm not he stabs himself and then turns into a robot seems kind of overly melodramatic.
    I'm not one to comment on grammar, usually, and I hate grammar Nazis, but your grammar is absolutely atrocious and I'm taking a shot in the dark every single time you post about what your point is.

    Just because he's 14 doesn't mean he has to whine a lot.
    I've known 14 year olds who didn't whine that much.
    There's a rather large amount of 14 year olds that whine. I'm not saying it gives him the excuse to whine, but you have to take into account that he is more or less a teenager going through puberty, and they do portray him accurately for a 14 year old.

  11. #236
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mercenary Raven View Post
    You can't be melodramatic unless you're crying over spilled milk or something. Raiden isn't crying over spilled milk or anything; he's legitimately had an extremely shitty life and after being kidnapped, thinking his unborn child died and hearing that his girlfriend married some old guy... it really doesn't get worse. Especially because your entire existence -- not unlike Snake's -- was orchestrated from the moment he was born, and he wasn't even a clone of Big Boss like Snake was.

    I don't remember that part in the second game.What i remember,is raiden talking about gunpowder fed to him and his military group? something like that.Anyways:This was done by solidus and he had a personal grudge against solidus because of what he did and he was all proud of what he did and even admiring raiden's killing skills.


    I'm not one to comment on grammar, usually, and I hate grammar Nazis, but your grammar is absolutely atrocious and I'm taking a shot in the dark every single time you post about what your point is.

    There's a rather large amount of 14 year olds that whine. I'm not saying it gives him the excuse to whine, but you have to take into account that he is more or less a teenager going through puberty, and they do portray him accurately for a 14 year old.
    There are also some 14 year olds that whine for the wrong reasons,and why i prefer more mature settings.

    I still think both hope and vanille were really annoying.

  12. #237
    Grand Shriner N-12_Aden's Avatar
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    This thread sure has evolved since July. Like mutated into a multiLimbed freak.

    I would have to say that, when placed in a stressful life or death situation, anyone would whine.......not so sure about FF13 but Raiden was a child soldier. If you still think thats not going to leave you with some pretty much fucked up emotional baggage than a normal person than you obviously dont know too much about mental trauma. If Hope is 14 and doing the stuff the average FF character does then of course he is going to be pretty whiney. What do you think he will be a hardened little killer? Mandalorian Super Commando? Maybe a powerful, angry, demigod?

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    Hope is caught in a warzone, he isn't a soldier or indeed someone with any pschylogical training for battlefield conditions, his mother dies in front of him, and then he is in the most literal sense, doomed because of actions out of his control, before being hunted by the authorities, who will kill him on the spot if and when they catch him...

    How would you expect him to behave? Can any of us say we would last ten minutes under that kind of stress? When we were that young?! You ask too much of him - he does extremely well considering the circumstances.

  14. #239
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vrykolas View Post
    Hope is caught in a warzone, he isn't a soldier or indeed someone with any pschylogical training for battlefield conditions, his mother dies in front of him, and then he is in the most literal sense, doomed because of actions out of his control, before being hunted by the authorities, who will kill him on the spot if and when they catch him...

    How would you expect him to behave? Can any of us say we would last ten minutes under that kind of stress? When we were that young?! You ask too much of him - he does extremely well considering the circumstances.
    And there you have it folks. Vrykolas just won this one (so did raven).

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    I thought FF13 was amazing. They all have one thing in common, and that's an awesome soundtrack.
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  16. #241
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    In life there are all sorts of things that happen to us,but making up excuses for acting a way because something happened to us in our past is stupid.
    I have my skeletons you have your skeletons and guess what:we are all fucked up in life.Whining that you are weak isn't going to do anything unless you get a hold of yourself and start manning up.

    Hope should try to lead and maybe even try aww man this is pointless.
    All he is to me,is annoying.

  17. #242
    you know my username and my avatar arent related Mercenary Raven's Avatar
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    Erm, his mother died at the start of the game. You saw it happen. "It happened in the past" is bullshit, and he's thrust into this crap all before he can even figure out just what is happening.

    Hope should try to lead
    Which he eventually... did.

    Raiden was MGS2's butt monkey, and in MGS4 most of his body is still gone. You don't just "get over" this kind of shit. Ever heard of PTSD?

  18. #243
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mercenary Raven View Post
    Erm, his mother died at the start of the game. You saw it happen. "It happened in the past" is bullshit, and he's thrust into this crap all before he can even figure out just what is happening.

    Which he eventually... did.

    Raiden was MGS2's butt monkey, and in MGS4 most of his body is still gone. You don't just "get over" this kind of shit. Ever heard of PTSD?
    I know someone who was in vietnam,and you know what? he wasn't fucking whining about it.
    He was trying to forget the shitty events and even though sometimes he was frowning,he wasn't constantly whining about it,in fact:He kept it a secret and didn't want to talk about it.

    He talked about it to my sister because she knew him longer and was friends with him longer and she told me about some stories.

  19. #244
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nostalgia gamer View Post
    In life there are all sorts of things that happen to us,but making up excuses for acting a way because something happened to us in our past is stupid.
    I have my skeletons you have your skeletons and guess what:we are all fucked up in life.Whining that you are weak isn't going to do anything unless you get a hold of yourself and start manning up.

    Hope should try to lead and maybe even try aww man this is pointless.
    All he is to me,is annoying.
    You lost your mother in a brutal civil war with no home and have no hope of survival? Then you can be qualified. Please tell me if I am wrong but the Nam vet has had years of dealing with it and the kid was under fucking 14 when it happened. Your pointless bravado astounds me, even my friends in the army and marines all agree that if you endure trauma that early on then they will not be goddamned normal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by N-10_Aden View Post
    You lost your mother in a brutal civil war with no home and have no hope of survival? Then you can be qualified. Please tell me if I am wrong but the Nam vet has had years of dealing with it and the kid was under fucking 14 when it happened. Your pointless bravado astounds me, even my friends in the army and marines all agree that if you endure trauma that early on then they will not be goddamned normal.
    Even if you suffer from an event and this guy suffered,you might want to forget it because it will rule your life.

    I was hit on the back with a chain by a nationalist teacher and i was pissed off,but i want to forget it and live on,why? because i would be happier that way.

    If i kept living in the past and never got over it,i would probably dwell into misery which i don't want.

    Do you get where i am going?

  21. #246
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    Yes but not everyone minds are set up the same way. Maybe they dont forget so it the memory and the pain keeps them going. I have seen decades long grudges among family members so even if they want to forget they keep expressing it regardless of how better off they would be. Some people never burry the past. But your right to an extent, I will give you that. But a person whose life has been brutish, nasty, and short doesnt just forget.

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    You think i forgot those events? or being a foreigner to that part of spain coming there and being said:Fucking american go back to us and liking it? no.
    But there are also people who are kind and good and even though i remember,i have to think about positive side,because not everyone is out to get me

    Do you think those times where i went into a chatroom and 90% of the times in mirc,people seemed to be assholes that means all americans being asshole? no,but a lot of people who use those chatrooms are kids and kids are immature,plus there are also trolls there too.

    If my mom were killed in front of me,i would probably be angry at the person who did it and go get them and i wouldn't forget,but i'd be a lot happier once i caught that son of a bitch.

    I would probaly also try to move on because misery only drags you down and instead of being helpful,its detrimental to your health.
    I keep hearing from my mom:I choose to be happy not because i am necessarily happy,but because its better than being miserable all the time,and finding good things in life helps makes life better,so i try to live by that motto.

    Of course,there are parts of FFXIII i found interesting,just that snow is my least favorite character in the game along with snow and vanille.That leaves:Fang who i never really noticed much,but only second playthrough,i noticed that she was on the opposing team when i first saw her.I never really thought much of fang either.
    I thought Lightning was ok,but she was kinda emotionless and a soldier type,which fits some of the roles she has in the game in being always taking her job seriously and cold and professional.I suppose this also has to do with her training since she was a military soldier like cloud and had to do that to be taken seriously.
    This of course,left a lot to be desired at moments as well,but i didn't even care about her backstory when she got into how she met hope and how every event lead to each character meeting.My favorite characters so far in FFXIII,are:Sazh and cid.I really like cid,for some reason,he always seems to be a really good character in the final fantasy series,well:Almost always.The only exception with that,is in FF8 where he was a complete wuss and i didn't care for cid at all.

    Also,i am trying hard not to rush to correct whatever errors i may in spelling and in comas and such.

  23. #248
    Grand Shriner N-12_Aden's Avatar
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    No one is out to get you here. You got that right about Cid in 8. He was pretty nonessential.

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    One problem i have with final fantasy 13,is the story pace.
    There is usually always a bunch of trivial shit in new final fantasy that is there to add extra story.
    You may think its pointless at times,but its supposed to reveal background on a character.The problem is:You don't give a shit about the character and the thing is done in such a way,that you forget stuff or get confused with the characters background.

    This is why i love things being revealed slowly and finding things that add that extra storyline without the necessity of constant bombardment of cutscene after cutscene.Remember the old days where characters talk to each other in certain scenes revealing certain info on their character when you get to a certain area about their past? remember how ff6 and ff7 did it? i kinda wish they would go back to that style rather than have 70-80% cutscene and 20-30% gameplay.
    When i play a new final fantasy,i keep thinking of movies which need editing because there is far too much trivial shit in it that is thrown around.

    I heard that the most important stuff is told later in the game,but honestly:I don't know if i even care enough to know.You know that feeling where you may have a story behind the character but you aren't intrigued by the characters so it doesn't draw you at all? that is the feeling i get with FFXIII,and when you have a dramatic cutscene and the game tries too hard to make you feel sorry for the character,it pushes you away even farther.

    I used to love the series,but now its gone to hell for me.

  25. #250
    you know my username and my avatar arent related Mercenary Raven's Avatar
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    This is relevant to Hope how? Or is it relevant to Raiden? Because Raiden didn't start whining until every little bit of trauma he repressed surfaced on top of everything going by really fucking fast and with surrealities. And let's not even get into the massive amount of torture he endured and still lives through in Guns of the Patriots. He's not whining or melodramatic, he's just reckless because everything he has to live for was either taken away from him or left him completely. Many soldiers who go through the same amount of torture and pain Raiden go through don't always suck it up, they become reckless, brutal, angry and borderline suicidal as a result simply because they have nothing left to live for. The guy you know from Vietnam seemed like he'd be one of the luckier ones because he probably didn't come back to total nothingness after the war. Raiden was an orphan.

    Hope saw his mother die right in front of him and used Snow as an outlet for his anger because he was there when his mother died. He followed him and everything ended up thrusted upon him at once -- he became extremely pissed off and angry at everyone and everything as a result. Once he calmed down, he followed Lightning's lead so he would become strong, like you said, and while he'd try to kill Snow because his 14-year-old self kicks in again, he'd still develop as a human being and at that point, he became a considerable amount more confident and less whiny. Palumpolum is also a noteworthy series of events that show just how much Hope had developed.

    You are allowed to not like him but for the love of god at least be more neutral in your assessment of him.

    You never forget someone dying or something painfully traumatic, and if you repress it or try to forget it comes back to haunt you and the pain that comes out after repressing it is extremely brutal. And if that traumatic event was either hte catalyst or the beginning of a series of events that go downhill extremely fast? It is *far* worse and harder to get over. In Hope's case, he had virtually no time to act or mourn for his mother. In Raiden's case, after the whole fuckery with the Big Shell, he finds out his girlfriend is real and pregnant then within 9 months finds out the child was a miscarriage, then he gets kidnapped, all that shit happens and within the next couple years he doesn't have time to recover mentally from everything that happened. The Big Shell triggered some of his childhood trauma of being a childhood soldier -- one that he had repressed for so long, and surfaced so painfully -- then he found out he was the butt monkey of a secret terrorist organization and he was experimented on for many years by said organization. There is no melodrama with Raiden. He hasn't had time or ability to mentally recover.

    I don't think either of us are in any right to say just what goes through a veteran or anyone's head because of just how bad the mental state of returning soldiers tends to be. There's a lot more to people than they say or act.

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