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Thread: Why do people say X-2 was a terrible game?

  1. #201
    Eater of Souls Erebus's Avatar
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    Because being grateful to her, they treated her like a princess. Now I know you're in denial. It's common sense. Do you know what being treated like a princess means?
    All I saw were people thanking her for her sacrifice and giving her things she needed on her journey. How is that "treating her like a princess"?

    As a summoner Yuna when through physical, mental, and emotional pain almost every day. How is that pampered, protected, and being treated like a princess?

    If anything the actual praise she received did nothing but remind her that she would soon be dead.

    Not to be rude, but you're the dipstick if you can't see that her not knowing was the plot point. Rather you or I seeing otherwise doesn't matter. It was the plot.
    So you think Yuna is an idiot then? Because only an idiot would not know that wasn't Tidus. Her knowing it wasn't Tidus, but being in denial about it makes much more sense. It also makes her 'human' instead of an idiot.

    The point is, she choose the path she has taken. Nobody, deceived or lied to her.
    You don't have to be deceived or lied to in order to be used.

    That's not Yuna's personality. You read too much into stuff. And the excuse was to make Paine and Rikku feel better, not to excuse why she wanted to get involved. Her mind was already made up.
    You're kidding me, right? She let Seymour use her to a certain extent in X! It's perfectly within the bounds of Yuna's personality and it shows that she never really learned anything.

    I don't need to explain myself, you're the one with the maturity argument. Anyway, like the other smart posters, I'm finished. All you're really doing is nip picking pointless examples to support your argument. You've posted no strong proof to show that she was acting immature.
    So you have the right to demand that others explain themselves and yet they have no right to demand the same of you? That makes a world of sense. Since you continue to insist that Yuna matured you too are in the "maturity argument".

  2. #202
    loner in the corner
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    I think you're the only one left posting Erebus.

  3. #203
    Eater of Souls Erebus's Avatar
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    As long as someone replies I will answer. I was under the impression that is how forums work.

  4. #204
    Grand Shriner
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erebus View Post
    As long as someone replies I will answer. I was under the impression that is how forums work.
    There's also beating a dead horse.

    Not only have you beat the dead horse, you've beaten its family, friends and shit on them all from a great height.

  5. #205
    Eater of Souls Erebus's Avatar
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    I'm sorry you feel that way.

  6. #206
    IT'S A TRAP Zak's Avatar
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    lol this thread needs to be closed already

  7. #207
    a111
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    i can't believe lulu married wakka what a fuc>king nut.

    i h8 interaccial relationships.

    wakka is mexican amirite?

  8. #208
    Goren
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    :/

  9. #209
    zanarkand princess tidusfan1's Avatar
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    -_- wow
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  10. #210
    Grand Shriner
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    a111
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    about time like.

  11. #211
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    I personally didn't like FFX-2 as an overall game because I felt the game's story was a bit of a non-event until the final 2 chapters which felt slightly tacked on.

    The gameplay was the best of an FF game up to that point, the freedom was nice and the amount of extras was legendary. The battle system in particular was really nice, very fluid, swish and did as much as can possibly be done (in my opinion) to create dynamic within a heavily regimented system such as ATB.

    The dressphere system owned too...of course it borrowed from a system that was already used excellently but the ability to change "jobs" mid-battle added alot of tactical incentive.

    However, for me, the problem with the game was more the way in which it unveiled its story. When I first played the game through I felt it was monumentally short and there was barely any story at all...it was only after following a 100% completion guide I actually found quite a few really cool scenes that otherwise I wouldn't have seen.

    This, for me, was the biggest problem with the game.

    FFX was extremely linear but it felt FFX-2 went too far in the opposite direction to compensate. For me, cutscenes which relate to the DIRECT PLOT of the game should not be missable. An example? The scene underneath Bevelle between Nooj, Baralai and Gippal where they point their guns at one another.

    In my opinion that is one of the best scenes in the game and yet it is so easily missed. Heck, you're even TOLD by the game to proceed to the next "story point" which is NOT Under Bevelle and once you do - zing, that's the scene gone. Optional content being spliced over the game is fine but not scenes so directly intertwined with the core plot.

    This is my biggest complaint about the game - the fact that it doesn't show the best of itself up front.

    Oh, and the behaviour of the 3 girls I didn't like. I didn't mind a brighter and more cheerful Spira but the extremity of it personified by the cheerleader-like behaviour of YRP (or perhaps should I say YR) just made me want to impale them on spears while eating my dinner.

  12. #212
    Grand Shriner HilariousMeme's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hex Omega View Post
    a111
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    about time like.
    I hope it was for saying 'h8.'

  13. #213
    On the lookout for terrorists and liberals. Ceidwad's Avatar
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    I more or less agree with Aqueous - good post.

  14. #214
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aqueous View Post
    I personally didn't like FFX-2 as an overall game because I felt the game's story was a bit of a non-event until the final 2 chapters which felt slightly tacked on.

    The gameplay was the best of an FF game up to that point, the freedom was nice and the amount of extras was legendary. The battle system in particular was really nice, very fluid, swish and did as much as can possibly be done (in my opinion) to create dynamic within a heavily regimented system such as ATB.

    The dressphere system owned too...of course it borrowed from a system that was already used excellently but the ability to change "jobs" mid-battle added alot of tactical incentive.

    However, for me, the problem with the game was more the way in which it unveiled its story. When I first played the game through I felt it was monumentally short and there was barely any story at all...it was only after following a 100% completion guide I actually found quite a few really cool scenes that otherwise I wouldn't have seen.

    This, for me, was the biggest problem with the game.

    FFX was extremely linear but it felt FFX-2 went too far in the opposite direction to compensate. For me, cutscenes which relate to the DIRECT PLOT of the game should not be missable. An example? The scene underneath Bevelle between Nooj, Baralai and Gippal where they point their guns at one another.

    In my opinion that is one of the best scenes in the game and yet it is so easily missed. Heck, you're even TOLD by the game to proceed to the next "story point" which is NOT Under Bevelle and once you do - zing, that's the scene gone. Optional content being spliced over the game is fine but not scenes so directly intertwined with the core plot.

    This is my biggest complaint about the game - the fact that it doesn't show the best of itself up front.

    Oh, and the behaviour of the 3 girls I didn't like. I didn't mind a brighter and more cheerful Spira but the extremity of it personified by the cheerleader-like behaviour of YRP (or perhaps should I say YR) just made me want to impale them on spears while eating my dinner.
    Wait, from the looks of this it seems you like the game, yet you dont?

    Sure, some of the better scenes are tucked away, but its shown all through that the game rewards you for being thorough.

    And the actual behaviour of the girls has been done to death and I see no need to go over it again.

  15. #215
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    It's hard for me to describe. I like the contents of the game but not the way in which they are structured. Kind of like reading a novel with a great story but erratic pacing and poor language (not a direct comparison to FFX-2's language, just an analogy).

    As for the girls, it's no problem, I simply have a really strong disliking for any behaviour that I feel resembles bimbo-ish (even a word?) - just a personal distaste.

    Forgot to mention Shinra as a positive, thought he was a great character ^^.

  16. #216
    On the lookout for terrorists and liberals. Ceidwad's Avatar
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    It's one thing to reward a gamer for being thorough. It's another to hide seriously important plot-related elements in a place that someone would only get to almost by accident. Another example of this is FFVII with the Shinra Mansion Disc 3 scene. That sort of thing is maddeningly furstrating and should be banned from gaming.

    The Den of Woe section, for example, is fair enough. You are introduced to the Den pretty early on and you know exactly what you need to do to access the good stuff, even if some Crimson Spheres are hard to get. I have no problem with that. But I do agree with Aqueous that some parts of the game were too obscurely hidden, and many plot points are tied up with quests that actually require a large amount of power-levelling, such as Via Infinito.

  17. #217
    RIP FFShrine: 2001-2010 Olde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ceidwad View Post
    It's one thing to reward a gamer for being thorough. It's another to hide seriously important plot-related elements in a place that someone would only get to almost by accident.
    Example? I'm not saying they didn't hide a lot of stuff in places no logical person would look. But "seriously important plot-related elements"? I initially beat the game w/o using a guide, and I don't remember any important plot elements left out. Maybe if you remind me, I'd remember, though.
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    Oh, now i get it...

    Your Posts aren't meant to be ironic... You actually think you're funny....
    I fucking hate FFShrine.

  18. #218
    sees through the bs! All Seeing Eye's Avatar
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    Personally, I liked that important plot elements were left for you to discover. It made my 100% play through worth it, and I concluded that X-2 had a decent story overall. When I first played the game, I just did the main missions and after 25 hours of play, came away disappointed.
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  19. #219
    Everyone is gifted. Some open the package sooner. Hynad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ceidwad View Post
    It's one thing to reward a gamer for being thorough. It's another to hide seriously important plot-related elements in a place that someone would only get to almost by accident. Another example of this is FFVII with the Shinra Mansion Disc 3 scene. That sort of thing is maddeningly furstrating and should be banned from gaming.

    The Den of Woe section, for example, is fair enough. You are introduced to the Den pretty early on and you know exactly what you need to do to access the good stuff, even if some Crimson Spheres are hard to get. I have no problem with that. But I do agree with Aqueous that some parts of the game were too obscurely hidden, and many plot points are tied up with quests that actually require a large amount of power-levelling, such as Via Infinito.
    The Shinra Mansion scene you speak of is pretty well implemented. All you need to do to see the special cut-scene is to go there no matter what you did or not beforehand.

    That's clearly not the same thing as with FF X-2 where you have to do some particular random things in order to trigger the events or miss them entirely for the rest of the game if you didn't fulfill these said requirements.

    The example you gave, Ceidwad, was seriously not a good one.

  20. #220
    zanarkand princess tidusfan1's Avatar
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    Like who would have guessed that you need to press x three times to have a chance at the good ending. Everything was so random.

  21. #221
    On the lookout for terrorists and liberals. Ceidwad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hynad View Post
    The Shinra Mansion scene you speak of is pretty well implemented. All you need to do to see the special cut-scene is to go there no matter what you did or not beforehand.

    That's clearly not the same thing as with FF X-2 where you have to do some particular random things in order to trigger the events or miss them entirely for the rest of the game if you didn't fulfill these said requirements.

    The example you gave, Ceidwad, was seriously not a good one.
    There's no reason why you would go to the Shinra Mansion on Disc 3, especially not going as deep into it as you need to to see the scene. You might go there to beat Lost Number and get Vincent if you hadn't done so before, but you would still need to go right to the back to see the scene.

    It is definitely badly implemented.

  22. #222
    Everyone is gifted. Some open the package sooner. Hynad's Avatar
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    YAWN, yep, of course, hidden content should be thrown at you with big ARROWS to point you in the obvious direction.
    Did you manage to find the Knights of the Round summon? I'm wondering because in the course of the game, nothing tells you to go visit this lost island after going through the process of breeding a gold chocobo.

    You must complain all the time when you play a Donkey Kong Country game in which you have to do some digging to find hidden stuff, of which nothing or not much is pointing at.

  23. #223
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    The point of his argument is that a direct plot related scene shouldn't BE "hidden content" - jesus christ....

    KotR is called "Extra Content" for a reason - it has no direct significance to the story and is only implimented as a gameplay gimmick - it's an item. In other words, the game is still "complete", storywise, even if you don't get KotR. The same goes for Ultima Weapon, Master Summon, Master Magic etc. they're things which affect your character's in-game abilities and stats not the focus of the plot. If you miss that scene in the Shinra Mansion then you haven't witnessed the complete plot encompassed in FFVII. How the hell does an item, a gameplay gimmick at that, compare to a plot-related cutscene?

    Your example is like saying Omega Weapon from FFVIII is a direct part of the plot. Or it's like me saying that the Chocograph Hunt Items in FFIX being hidden is the same as hiding the entire plot development located in Terra. They're NOT the same.

    Gameplay orientated items don't tell any part of the direct plot and so your attempt at a parallel fails and your continued insistance in arguing with almost anything presented in front of you bores me somewhat aswell. If you actually had come up with a logical comparison (you know, like an example of a hidden story cutscene in another game rather than an item compared with a cutscene) then I wouldn't believe you were simply arguing for the sake of arguing but the malformed excuse for a parallel just leads me to believe this is the case.

    I would simply just ignore this post but it seems a shame to allow this stain on well-thought arguments like Ceidwad's. And I'm sorry if this seems overly harsh but considering the examples in your post and how they totally misfire it just makes the whole post seem pointless and nothing more than potential flamebait.

  24. #224
    sees through the bs! All Seeing Eye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aqueous View Post
    The point of his argument is that a direct plot related scene shouldn't BE "hidden content" - jesus christ....
    I disagree. Final Fantasy X-2's game interface is setup for you to play and explore the worlds fully. The game never intentionally keeps things away from you. You can either choose to do the Main Missions, or you can visit different worlds and discover everything that happens their. Plus the press X scene with Yuna, isn't that hard to figure out if you play it enough times, and even it if was hard for some people to figure out, a lot of games besides X-2 has hidden content you have to discover to unlock the best endings, or the best weapons etc. To pick on X-2 for this is flawed and a weak argument for why people claim the game sucks.

  25. #225
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    Quote Originally Posted by All Seeing Eye View Post
    I disagree. Final Fantasy X-2's game interface is setup for you to play and explore the worlds fully. The game never intentionally keeps things away from you. You can either choose to do the Main Missions, or you can visit different worlds and discover everything that happens their. Plus the press X scene with Yuna, isn't that hard to figure out if you play it enough times, and even it if was hard for some people to figure out, a lot of games besides X-2 has hidden content you have to discover to unlock the best endings, or the best weapons etc. To pick on X-2 for this is flawed and a weak argument for why people claim the game sucks.
    While I can agree with your notion that X-2 is setup to explore worlds fully, there's an importance in where you place this need for exploration and throwing the player a bone. For example, placing it just before an end-of-chapter plot revelation, without any indication the content is even available, is not the best place because the vast majority of gamers will be interested in following the plot and will do so since there is nothing indicating to the contrary (Under Bevelle scene).

    This I would argue IS keeping things away from the player because virtually noone would go to Bevelle at the time the scene unfolds unless they have a guide. There's no indication of anything going on in the description of the location on the flight map (you know, Buddy's description thingy) so unless you have a guide, which probably means they've raked in more money, 99% of the time you won't go there. I personally missed it and when I played through I got 86% completion so I wasn't playing the game linearly either.

    You also mentioned the scene with Yuna and the whistling. You say that if you've played it enough times you'll probably figure it out. This is assuming a person plays the game multiple times after the arguably poor experience they had the first time. I know personally I had no desire to play the game through again whatsoever nor should it be required of me. Also, I tend to avoid spamming X in cutscenes in case it skips dialogue.

    If you think it's a poor reason to think the game sucks then that's up to you, that's your freedom, no problem, but I don't honestly see how it's a poor reason. If a game doesn't show the best of itself upfront then it's not a very well designed game. Why? Because naturally the vast majority of people are not going to find out the best parts of the game. This means the vast majority's opinion of the game is going to be below what it deserves and it also means that those customers aren't going to have experienced the best of the game that they could. You could even argue that this cheats them out of their money but I won't go down that path. Sometimes something small and solitary can make all the difference.

    Hiding content is fine, it's been in every FF, but not necessarily scenes which are directly interwoven with the plot and not often without any indication whatsoever. If there had been suggestions for discovering cutscenes in the game, fine, but there was nothing. It's also arguable but whether you'd even WANT to indulge in the hidden content after the horrorshow experience with the Luca quest in Chapter 1 (revisiting when Yuna was in the Moogle suit) is questionable.

    When there is so much hidden content without any kind of leads I honestly start to believe the game is guide purchasing fodder. And the sheer fact I enjoyed X-2 far more when I had a 100% completion guide loaded up on my PC speaks volumes to me. I simply can't understand why they hid so much of the game's better content. Why would you want to hide the best parts of your "work"?

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