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Thread: Why do people say X-2 was a terrible game?

  1. #226
    Exotic weapon proficiency ftw Prak's Avatar
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    Huzzah!

    I had almost started to believe I was alone in thinking the practice of hiding content in games to force players to buy guides was bullshit of the vilest sort.

    Of course, even though X-2 was one of the worst offenders, the series had been getting progressively worse about it for years. That's one of the main reasons I've come to regard the franchise as being shit.

  2. #227
    The darkness writhes. execrable gumwrapper's Avatar
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    Huzzah? Huzzah?!

    Since when the fuck do YOU say huzzah?
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  3. #228
    Exotic weapon proficiency ftw Prak's Avatar
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    Since whenever I first said it, which appears to have not occurred on this forum, therefore dashing my hopes of linking to such a post and making a sarcastic remark.

  4. #229
    The darkness writhes. execrable gumwrapper's Avatar
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    ...

    Huzzah!

  5. #230
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultra Praknus View Post
    Huzzah!

    I had almost started to believe I was alone in thinking the practice of hiding content in games to force players to buy guides was bullshit of the vilest sort.

    Of course, even though X-2 was one of the worst offenders, the series had been getting progressively worse about it for years. That's one of the main reasons I've come to regard the franchise as being shit.
    You know as well as I do that its all about the monies.

    Pretty much every major gaming franchise has strategy guides now. I am certain that it is outlined prior to development that a game must have hidden content thrown in just to increase the chances that people will need and indeed pay an inflated price for a strategy guide.

    And then of course there's our beloved Transformers,with Hasbro feeling the need to repaint and redeco every single character 47 times.

    But anyway, it is unfair for any of you to criticize the game for hidden content as its the tip of a pretty large and greedy iceberg called capitalism that is infecting pretty much every avenue of the consumer world.

    Oh, and Huzzah!

  6. #231
    sees through the bs! All Seeing Eye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aqueous View Post
    While I can agree with your notion that X-2 is setup to explore worlds fully, there's an importance in where you place this need for exploration and throwing the player a bone. For example, placing it just before an end-of-chapter plot revelation, without any indication the content is even available, is not the best place because the vast majority of gamers will be interested in following the plot and will do so since there is nothing indicating to the contrary (Under Bevelle scene).

    This I would argue IS keeping things away from the player because virtually noone would go to Bevelle at the time the scene unfolds unless they have a guide. There's no indication of anything going on in the description of the location on the flight map (you know, Buddy's description thingy) so unless you have a guide, which probably means they've raked in more money, 99% of the time you won't go there. I personally missed it and when I played through I got 86% completion so I wasn't playing the game linearly either.


    You also mentioned the scene with Yuna and the whistling. You say that if you've played it enough times you'll probably figure it out. This is assuming a person plays the game multiple times after the arguably poor experience they had the first time. I know personally I had no desire to play the game through again whatsoever nor should it be required of me. Also, I tend to avoid spamming X in cutscenes in case it skips dialogue.

    If you think it's a poor reason to think the game sucks then that's up to you, that's your freedom, no problem, but I don't honestly see how it's a poor reason. If a game doesn't show the best of itself upfront then it's not a very well designed game. Why? Because naturally the vast majority of people are not going to find out the best parts of the game. This means the vast majority's opinion of the game is going to be below what it deserves and it also means that those customers aren't going to have experienced the best of the game that they could. You could even argue that this cheats them out of their money but I won't go down that path. Sometimes something small and solitary can make all the difference.

    Hiding content is fine, it's been in every FF, but not necessarily scenes which are directly interwoven with the plot and not often without any indication whatsoever. If there had been suggestions for discovering cutscenes in the game, fine, but there was nothing. It's also arguable but whether you'd even WANT to indulge in the hidden content after the horrorshow experience with the Luca quest in Chapter 1 (revisiting when Yuna was in the Moogle suit) is questionable.

    When there is so much hidden content without any kind of leads I honestly start to believe the game is guide purchasing fodder. And the sheer fact I enjoyed X-2 far more when I had a 100% completion guide loaded up on my PC speaks volumes to me. I simply can't understand why they hid so much of the game's better content. Why would you want to hide the best parts of your "work"?
    Judging by this reply you don't like Non-linear RPG's because that's what X-2 is. You and I guess many others like Linear RPG's that hold your hand and guild you through the story, instead of discovering it yourself. X-2 isn't even a true nonlinear RPG in a sense because at least the game gives you main missions to play and chapters that hint you should revisit certain places. A true Non-linear RPG gives you nothing at all. You're left to discover the plot yourself. That's why many people didn't like Saga Frontier. Non-linear is nothing new, they're quite popular in Japan. So it's simply the style of RPG that you seem to have a problem with, or at least that's how I'm understanding it.
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  7. #232
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    Quote Originally Posted by All Seeing Eye View Post
    Judging by this reply you don't like Non-linear RPG's because that's what X-2 is. You and I guess many others like Linear RPG's that hold your hand and guild you through the story, instead of discovering it yourself. X-2 isn't even a true nonlinear RPG in a sense because at least the game gives you main missions to play and chapters that hint you should revisit certain places. A true Non-linear RPG gives you nothing at all. You're left to discover the plot yourself. That's why many people didn't like Saga Frontier. Non-linear is nothing new, they're quite popular in Japan. So it's simply the style of RPG that you seem to have a problem with, or at least that's how I'm understanding it.
    It's true I'm not keen on non-linear RPGs if they have a core plot but it also depends on the situation. An RPG that HAS a core linear plot but displays it in non-linear no-hint locations for me is destined to be a poor setup. It's either non-linear or linear, few games pull off the mix of the two IMO.

    The reason why is because of false security. It gives off a feeling that if you follow the game linearly you'll experience the plot as you want/need to and that exploration is for gameplay additions. In a true non-linear RPG you know that you've got to explore for every scrap of story development and so you do.

    If I'm honest I have other things I dislike about X-2 aswell which makes it a special example of my dislike over RPG styles of its kind but I need not go into those.

    Besides, it's still a guide purchase marketting technique IMO, that's probably what angers me the most.

  8. #233
    Everyone is gifted. Some open the package sooner. Hynad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aqueous View Post
    The point of his argument is that a direct plot related scene shouldn't BE "hidden content" - jesus christ....

    KotR is called "Extra Content" for a reason - it has no direct significance to the story and is only implimented as a gameplay gimmick - it's an item. In other words, the game is still "complete", storywise, even if you don't get KotR. The same goes for Ultima Weapon, Master Summon, Master Magic etc. they're things which affect your character's in-game abilities and stats not the focus of the plot. If you miss that scene in the Shinra Mansion then you haven't witnessed the complete plot encompassed in FFVII. How the hell does an item, a gameplay gimmick at that, compare to a plot-related cutscene?

    Your example is like saying Omega Weapon from FFVIII is a direct part of the plot. Or it's like me saying that the Chocograph Hunt Items in FFIX being hidden is the same as hiding the entire plot development located in Terra. They're NOT the same.

    Gameplay orientated items don't tell any part of the direct plot and so your attempt at a parallel fails and your continued insistance in arguing with almost anything presented in front of you bores me somewhat aswell. If you actually had come up with a logical comparison (you know, like an example of a hidden story cutscene in another game rather than an item compared with a cutscene) then I wouldn't believe you were simply arguing for the sake of arguing but the malformed excuse for a parallel just leads me to believe this is the case.

    I would simply just ignore this post but it seems a shame to allow this stain on well-thought arguments like Ceidwad's. And I'm sorry if this seems overly harsh but considering the examples in your post and how they totally misfire it just makes the whole post seem pointless and nothing more than potential flamebait.
    The core of the plot is still quite intact even without that cut-scene. Most of what is shown is already implied during the conversations and other plot parts. Even if you don't see Zack being shot in the wasteland near Midgar, you already know by then that he was killed by Shinra, and that Cloud managed to survive.

    Ceidwad's argument is just a "it's badly implemented" with not much backing off or any fair comparison with other games. Vincent if still a great part of FF VII, yet he is hidden in the same way as this cut-scene is. Yet I don't anyone complaining about that. The cut-scene in question isn't badly implemented, you all managed to see it. And I did so too without the use of any guide to take my hand (unlike, I would guess, many of you who complain and nitpick about every bits of challenges in games you cannot overcome without the use of an outside source. The result of a spoiled-rotten generation that is used to have everything when they want it...).

  9. #234
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hynad View Post
    The core of the plot is still quite intact even without that cut-scene. Most of what is shown is already implied during the conversations and other plot parts. Even if you don't see Zack being shot in the wasteland near Midgar, you already know by then that he was killed by Shinra, and that Cloud managed to survive.

    Ceidwad's argument is just a "it's badly implemented" with not much backing off or any fair comparison with other games. Vincent if still a great part of FF VII, yet he is hidden in the same way as this cut-scene is. Yet I don't anyone complaining about that. The cut-scene in question isn't badly implemented, you all managed to see it. And I did so too without the use of any guide to take my hand (unlike, I would guess, many of you who complain and nitpick about every bits of challenges in games you cannot overcome without the use of an outside source. The result of a spoiled-rotten generation that is used to have everything when they want it...).
    Ok, cool, if you'd posted this originally I would've agreed. I disagreed because of the lack of comparison compatiblity and because of the self-important tone in the original post.

    I don't know whether that tone is intentional or whether it's partly because you said English isn't your mother tongue. I kind of hope the latter.

  10. #235
    On the lookout for terrorists and liberals. Ceidwad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hynad View Post
    YAWN, yep, of course, hidden content should be thrown at you with big ARROWS to point you in the obvious direction.
    Did you manage to find the Knights of the Round summon? I'm wondering because in the course of the game, nothing tells you to go visit this lost island after going through the process of breeding a gold chocobo.

    You must complain all the time when you play a Donkey Kong Country game in which you have to do some digging to find hidden stuff, of which nothing or not much is pointing at.

    Ceidwad's argument is just a "it's badly implemented" with not much backing off or any fair comparison with other games. Vincent if still a great part of FF VII, yet he is hidden in the same way as this cut-scene is. Yet I don't anyone complaining about that. The cut-scene in question isn't badly implemented, you all managed to see it. And I did so too without the use of any guide to take my hand (unlike, I would guess, many of you who complain and nitpick about every bits of challenges in games you cannot overcome without the use of an outside source. The result of a spoiled-rotten generation that is used to have everything when they want it...).

    The core of the plot is still quite intact even without that cut-scene. Most of what is shown is already implied during the conversations and other plot parts. Even if you don't see Zack being shot in the wasteland near Midgar, you already know by then that he was killed by Shinra, and that Cloud managed to survive.
    Missed this before.

    Knights of the Round is obviously different in that it has nothing to do with the plot, but in any case, the chocobo sidequest, which essentially leads you to the materia, is spelled out for you by Chocobo Sage.

    There is nothing that indicates there is anything to be gained from going to the Mansion on Disc 3, whereas any idiot could see that there was a cave that was previously inaccessible with the Highwind just flying around, and would naturally be curious once they acquired the gold chocobo, i.e. the means to get there.

    I do not complain about Vincent because the game flowed fairly smoothly (in relative terms of course) without acquiring him as a character. His part of the plot is largely inconsequential to the wider events and Cloud's backstory, albeit an interesting distraction from them.

    I managed to find the scene without a guide, and I'm sure many others did too, but that's no reason not to criticise it, because it fills in some important gaps in the plot and is very eminently missable, without even a hint of a warning about its existence.

    The core of the plot is of course intact, but without that scene, the game would have had more problems than it does as it is. I.e., how did the two escape from Shinra? What were the full details of Cloud's relationship with Zack? Hence, it is important, and that it can be easily missed can only be a bad thing.

    I'll contrast as I have before with the Den of Woe in FFX-2. Although this part of the game fills in much of past events and adds to Paine's plot, it is clearly accessible early in the game when you do a normal storyline mission in Mushroom Rock. Only the most braindead of gamers would fail to see the pathway down into the Ravine as they made their way through MR.

    Prak, most of us have complained about the missions that force you to get a guide to get the best results. Trust me, you have never been alone on that.

  11. #236
    Not captain Basch Yu_Kaze's Avatar
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    I HATED it.

    It was a complete mockery of FF X. A game with a complex characters and story.

    FFX was beautiful aesthetically and in it's story telling.

    Yuna, the first female character I actually liked was reduced from strong willed savior of the people to ' Laura ( Croft) Spice" and Rikku, whom I could actually tolerate in X was made..just so much more irritating.

    The battle system, while fun, was just an excuse show off different costumes.

    Really, the entire game itself was just another cheap and tawdry charlies angels spin off.

    Sad too, because under of all the fan service and as someone else said 'girl power' was the potential for a nice story.

  12. #237
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    I didn't like it. The game felt rushed and tacked on to the end of FFX. The opening pop song was really cheesy and the combat was very different to X. Some of the mini-games were even more tedious than the ones in X. Yuna seemed to be out of character and Rikku was my least favourite of the cast from X. Paine completes the silly 'girl power' theme of the game.

  13. #238
    I am not a nugget! SwirlingDark's Avatar
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    Simple. People didn't like it because it was a far cry from what Squeenix had already done with the Final Fantasy games.
    - Non Linear gameplay that let you do as much or as little as possible? Unheard of.
    - Having a set party that you cannot change at all through the game? Just not done.
    - Having the job system come back (let's face it, that's all it was) new and improved? Unthinkable!

    Ok, the story could have been stronger, but we're talking about Yuna here. Her life revolves around Tidus and saving people who are too powerless to do anything themselves.

    Me personally? I loved it. Why? Because Squeenix weren't afraid to try something different, something new. They don't want to be stuck doing the same things all the time. They'll get bored.
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  14. #239
    sees through the bs! All Seeing Eye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SwirlingDark View Post
    Simple. People didn't like it because it was a far cry from what Squeenix had already done with the Final Fantasy games.
    - Non Linear gameplay that let you do as much or as little as possible? Unheard of.
    - Having a set party that you cannot change at all through the game? Just not done.
    - Having the job system come back (let's face it, that's all it was) new and improved? Unthinkable!

    Ok, the story could have been stronger, but we're talking about Yuna here. Her life revolves around Tidus and saving people who are too powerless to do anything themselves.

    Me personally? I loved it. Why? Because Squeenix weren't afraid to try something different, something new. They don't want to be stuck doing the same things all the time. They'll get bored.
    LMAO! Two post and this guy already wins this thread.

  15. #240
    Alien Princess Koriand'r's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by All Seeing Eye View Post
    LMAO! Two post and this guy already wins this thread.
    I'm also with SwirlingDark. And I might add three other reasons I enjoyed FFX-2:

    1- The story about Shuyin and Lenne. C'mon, a tragic love story, what's the last time we saw a good tragic love story in FF? Maybe in FFVI? 1000 Words concert was the first time I ever cried playing video-games.
    2- It was good to see the world changing after you saved it. You know, usually when you finish a game, everything is "A-Okay!", everybody is happy, the world is now in peace and full of hope, and every one is going to live happily ever after! In Spira it wasn't the case: Ronso attacking the guados (blame it on Seymour!), Macalania Woods is dying, Zanarkand became a stupid tourist spot, people are trying to adapt the new times without the religion's rule and the new factions are fighting each other! What kind of peace is that? It's something never seen before in a FF game.
    3- Multiple endings! That's the first time in a FF game, and fits very well the story.

    However, I have also two things I didn't liked very much:
    1- Girl power. They were one step away from a pajama party.
    2- Too much J-Pop. J-Pop is good, but they overdid it :/

  16. #241
    Everyone is gifted. Some open the package sooner. Hynad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Koriand'r View Post
    C'mon, a tragic love story, what's the last time we saw a good tragic love story in FF? Maybe in FFVI?

    Try Final Fantasy X.

  17. #242
    Maybe we don't exist... Harkus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hynad View Post
    Try Final Fantasy X.
    lol pwned.
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  18. #243
    I am not a nugget! SwirlingDark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by All Seeing Eye View Post
    LMAO! Two post and this guy already wins this thread.
    Who said I was a guy? *points at her rather large chest and lack of male genitalia*

  19. #244
    Grand Shriner RikkuYunaRinoa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SwirlingDark View Post
    Who said I was a guy? *points at her rather large chest and lack of male genitalia*
    Erm.....Lulu? Is that you?

  20. #245
    I am not a nugget! SwirlingDark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Calum View Post
    Erm.....Lulu? Is that you?
    Damn. I've been rumbled.

  21. #246
    Alien Princess Koriand'r's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hynad View Post
    Try Final Fantasy X.
    Yeah, I did played FFX. Actualy I've beaten the game 2 times before playing FFX-2: one regular USA version and the other was the International... I was going for the 3rd round when started playing FFX-2.

    FFX I thought they just tried to hard to be natural: "Take me as a sacrifice!" "No, take me!" "I want you to live!" "I'll live with you!" "Oh plz don't die" "I won't let you die!" blahblahblah.
    In FFX-2 both Lenne and Shuyin wanted to live, together. But both wanted to protect their significant one. Shuyin took the shoot and Lenne died trying to reach him out. Heck, he wanted to destroy the world for her!

    And no, I don't have anything against Tidus or Yuna. In fact I really like Tidus, he was one of the few video-game characters which actually got more mature during the story (and not some superficial crap like most games). But their love story still looks like a bit... Forced, unnatural.

  22. #247
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    FFX-2 was, in my own personal opinion, a great game. It's not the best final fantasy game ever made but it has a uniqueness to it that no other game can match.
    1. It has the best atb system of any FF.
    2. The dresspheres were a great way to combine the equip system in ff7 with the job system in the old ff games.
    3. The story can be short and sweet or very long and grueling depending on how you play it. It even gives you a percentage on how much you've completed.
    4. It has the TOUGHEST side boss ever!. (Trema)
    5. And finally it offers a save game plus option! How many times have you spent countless hours on an ff game when you realize you've missed out on the best item in the game. Well now you can go back and play it again.

  23. #248
    The darkness writhes. execrable gumwrapper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SwirlingDark View Post
    Who said I was a guy? *points at her rather large chest and lack of male genitalia*
    Pix or it didn't happen.

  24. #249
    STRIFE FAN PizzalixFFfan's Avatar
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    i actually liked final fantasy X-2, nothin to do with the game system but the storyline was pretty emoitonal. the song (and i think you know what song) will probably last in my world for centuries.

  25. #250
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    Well....all I could say about the game was that they were HOT!!!!
    But thats pretty much it though.

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