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Thread: Square-Enix is milking FFVII way too much

  1. #201
    Ultima Weapon thej.master's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gokarma View Post
    Square-Enix has been very concentrated on the FFVII Compilation more than anything else-- Advent Children, Crisis Core, Dirge of Cerberus, Before Crisis, and Last Order. FFVII is still one of my favorite videogames, but I think Square-Enix is going a little overboard with all this bloated FFVII fluff: an OVA, a mobile phone game, a shooter, a CG anime... in which they're all mediocre at best. The last thing I want is for FFVII to become another Star Wars or Disney franchise: series that have been milked up so much by the company that their original aura just dried up. I wish Square-Enix never began these FFVII sellout projects; it makes them look like some self-indulgent conglomerate.

    Some of the greatest games have never needed sequels, remakes, or commercialized off-shoot mediums to keep their respective place in history, such as NiGHTS Into Dreams, Vagrant Story, and StarCraft. FFVII should've been, and was, one of those. I say leave the classics alone.
    Yeah I agree. But it is interesting how Square-Enix has expanded on the FFVII universe.

  2. #202
    Maybe we don't exist... Harkus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thej.master View Post
    Yeah I agree. But it is interesting how Square-Enix has expanded on the FFVII universe.
    It's interesting but DoC would have better off never made.
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  3. #203
    GTI Enthusiast z.zetsumei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thej.master View Post
    Yeah I agree. But it is interesting how Square-Enix has expanded on the FFVII universe.
    That's easy to do for just about every fictional world so it's neither new nor original. It's how they did it that pisses me off...I hate copy pasta.
    They went ahead and took loads of premises and concepts that worked in the past and twisted them only to the point where the fanboys/girls would be the only ones to go home and masturbate to the "epicness" of the lastest installment of the FFVII shitiverse.
    I have no problem with anybody expanding any universe as long as they show some feasible effort to create a new, genuine experience.

    I also do not hate FFVII, I actually love it for being an excellent example of a way to properly execute the release of a game while at the same time not being able to equal game quality with sales numbers. For me, FFVII hailed in a new era, an era of "gamers" that could not play a game without a guide (official or not).
    The other day, I saw a girl reading through a guide for FFTA and I said to myself, "A guide for a tactics game?...What the hell is this coming to?! I'll bet the next thing I'll see is a fucking guide for Chessmaster!"

    @ MMtech: The reason why you were quoted on one line was because of this:
    Quote Originally Posted by MMtech
    Dirge of Cerberus didn't ruin anything either. The only thing wrong with that game was the gameplay.
    In case you didn't pick up what KNegative did when you were quoted, I'll explain.
    Games are meant to be played, so if there's a problem with the gameplay then why should the game be played to begin with?
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  4. #204
    Grand Shriner ROKI's Avatar
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    What surprises me the most is that there is no game where the main character is actually, CLOUD!!!!

  5. #205
    Onion Kid D.i.a.s.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ROKI View Post
    What surprises me the most is that there is no game where the main character is actually, CLOUD!!!!
    That's because the story didnt always revolve around CLOUD in the game. If you remember there was other characters. Yes he was the Main but yet so were a few others. Now the Story may have been Centered around CLOUD. But no more. From the looks of things Cloud's story has pretty much been explained. Well enough and over again I must say. I don't know how they could get anymore clear on that. The other characters are pretty much left in the dark. Fans want more VII. So they give what they can. Seriously how many times can you bring Sephiroth back to life jus to kill him again?

    If it continues it'll jus be like DBZ "Hey Goku wanna hava bbq?" "Ok hahahaha"
    -ppl come, they fight, then another bbq-

    Get over it and move on.

  6. #206
    Grand Shriner ROKI's Avatar
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    You misunderstand. I don't give a damn about Final Fantasy VII, its characters or any of its sequels. But as I said, its surprising that there is no sequel with Cloud, a character that has been considered an icon from the fanboys for more than 10 years. Surely, I believe that every VII fan would want to see what happened to him after the events of VII. And in a better presentation than Advent Children.

  7. #207
    jen' jari iv tave sith Darth Revan's Avatar
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    Beginning Rant...




























    I could once again comment here... but really what's the damn point? Fanboys/girls are gonna keep spewing forth their opinions and views and try to state them as facts as to why SE HAS to continue to play around with a game some people consider to be SE's masterpiece of gaming.

    My own personal opinions about this have been stated not just in this thread but in others on this forum about FFVII.

    FFVII was a good game for it's time and I freely admit I was a fan of it. Now, I've moved on from it and enjoy other rpg's... Yes, there ARE other RPG's out there, not just FFVII.

    Instead of trying to promote FFVII into Martyrdom, take a break from that and either play another rpg (Computer or even the old tabletop rpg's... that is IF anyone can remember the old AD&D games... ) or and perhaps even better, stop wasting your lives sitting in front of the tv playing a game which is eleven years old now (and wasting your parents electricity) and go and live your life IN THE REAL DAMN WORLD!!!











    End Rant...


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  8. #208
    I'm the Dude, so that's what you call me... Musical Horse's Avatar
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    While there is merit in what you say, I for one have found that the real world is highly overrated. Too boring and not enough fanciful experiences happening for my taste. If it is a person's wish to find solace in a mythical gaming worlds, or seek kinship with stories and characters that do not truly exist, then who are we to judge? People have done stranger things in this bizarre world, as we have all witnessed.

    And while I do think SE is going a bit overboard with FF7, it still remains one of my favorite games, and for a variety of reasons that I'll not mention, as we all know of the game's strong points by now.

    Going even further, what is eleven years? So what?...Does it matter if it is five, ten, fifteen years? Hell no, I still play the original Zelda and Mario for the SNES or even the NES for that matter, for the simple reason that they are classic. And like it or not, a classic is still a classic, no matter how much time has gone by, and there is no harm in taking a trip back in time by playing it and enjoying it anew. If you don't believe me, take a look at some famous musical scores or books that are decades or even centuries old. People still delight in hearing these songs and reading these tales long after they had come out. Games are no different; they are meant to be enjoyed, no matter how much time has passed, obsolete or not.

    These spin-off FF7 games are a bit over the top however, and I think the folks at SE need to step back and stretch a bit. Give us some breathing room y'all!

    Though I cannot deny that I personally would love to see them remake FF7 eventually, provided of course they don't butcher it horribly. I am, of course, still in favor of new games being created, certainly, but there are something that are meant to be done. That is one of them, or so I personally think.

    Even more, Advent Children gave me the one thing that I've wanted to see for a long time, ever since playing FF7. A true fight between Cloud and Sephiroth, which the original game lacked. It had the three final bosses, plus Cloud vs. Sephiroth in that token little battle, but that wasn't a real fight. Not with them leaping about with superb swordplay, to the remastered One Winged Angle. Forget about it. I cannot stress enough how much that whole sequence tickled me silly. The story was a bit eccentric and left me more than slightly puzzled, but all I wanted was to see Sephiroth kicking ass in real time, like never before. And in the end, isn't that what we all want?

    Naturally, there is always going to be the debate of whether some games, old or new, should have remakes or sequels. Sometimes there is no question that things should have been left well enough alone, but others that not only should have a sequel/remake but needed to be continued. I have several things in mind when I say this, but I'll leave it at that, unless someone wants me to elaborate, which I doubt.

    So, in conclusion, I'd agree that SE is been going a bit berserk these days, and needs to put FF7 on the shelf for a bit, and settle down with other newer ideas. But just because its on the shelf doesn't make it forgotten, and doesn't exclude it from the future, and bringing it once again into the now.

    But until that future is now, yes, let us play the other RPG's out there, including the old AD&D games, which I still play all the time. There is much to learn by rolling dice, says I. Until next time people, good luck and good hunting...


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  9. #209
    jen' jari iv tave sith Darth Revan's Avatar
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    First of all, I'd like to apologize for this lengthy post. When I started typing a response, I got a little carried away... my bad...

    Originally posted by Musical Horse...

    While there is merit in what you say, I for one have found that the real world is highly overrated. Too boring and not enough fanciful experiences happening for my taste. If it is a person's wish to find solace in a mythical gaming worlds, or seek kinship with stories and characters that do not truly exist, then who are we to judge? People have done stranger things in this bizarre world, as we have all witnessed.
    The real world is what each of us make of it. If it's too boring or not enough fanciful, then it's up to you to make it that way. I have no problems if people want to spend all their time, 24/7 playing games as it is their god given choice to do so, but they have to realise that ultimately it's just a game, and that the real world is there waiting for them after they turn the power off to the console.

    And while I do think SE is going a bit overboard with FF7, it still remains one of my favorite games, and for a variety of reasons that I'll not mention, as we all know of the game's strong points by now.
    I freely admit, that FFVII was the second game I ever bought for my PSX (The first being Transformers : Beast Wars... which I regret to my eternal damnation), and I did enjoy it. However, after all this time, there are other rpg's available that I personally find to be just as enjoyable, if not moreso, than FFVII.

    Going even further, what is eleven years? So what?...Does it matter if it is five, ten, fifteen years? Hell no, I still play the original Zelda and Mario for the SNES or even the NES for that matter, for the simple reason that they are classic. And like it or not, a classic is still a classic, no matter how much time has gone by, and there is no harm in taking a trip back in time by playing it and enjoying it anew. If you don't believe me, take a look at some famous musical scores or books that are decades or even centuries old. People still delight in hearing these songs and reading these tales long after they had come out. Games are no different; they are meant to be enjoyed, no matter how much time has passed, obsolete or not.
    Being a classic is one thing, but when people start raving on and on about a game, and the reasons they state for it are something along the lines of Durrr... this game is tha best. If youse don't like it youse an idjit or something similar, that is what pisses me off. If people state their reasons as to why they like it, in a clear manner, then maybe those people would be taken a little more seriously, instead of being denoted as fanboys.

    Besides, what makes a game a classic nowadays anyway? Total of sales? Cult following? The convergence of the stars and the moon which will show the way to Nirvana? The word 'classic' is being given to a lot of games nowadays, and in some cases just for the hell of it.

    In response to the following comment If you don't believe me, take a look at some famous musical scores or books that are decades or even centuries old., that is true, but also take into account that these are a different form of entertainment. Personally, I am a fan of the chinese novella, Romance of the Three Kingdoms, which was written back in 1522 CE, though there are prefaces which date back to 1494, and bears a close relation to illustrated narrative entitled San-kuo chih p'ing-hua (Plain Tales from the San-kuo Chih). Both of those works can be traced back to the San-kuo Chih (Chronicled by the historian Ch'en Shou (233-297CE)).

    Sorry... didn't mean to go into a history lesson... my bad... back to topic...

    These spin-off FF7 games are a bit over the top however, and I think the folks at SE need to step back and stretch a bit. Give us some breathing room y'all!

    Though I cannot deny that I personally would love to see them remake FF7 eventually, provided of course they don't butcher it horribly. I am, of course, still in favor of new games being created, certainly, but there are something that are meant to be done. That is one of them, or so I personally think.
    It seems to me, that SE has decided to go into the remake business... what with all the remakes of the earlier FF's, as well as spin offs and the like. Personally I think SE should of continued along with newer FF's, which are complete as they are. But then, they DID fire Hironobu Sakaguchi, who saved Square from going bankrupt back in the 80's by creating Final Fantasy in the first place. As it is about a FFVII remake... I'll get back to this later in this post.

    Even more, Advent Children gave me the one thing that I've wanted to see for a long time, ever since playing FF7. A true fight between Cloud and Sephiroth, which the original game lacked. It had the three final bosses, plus Cloud vs. Sephiroth in that token little battle, but that wasn't a real fight. Not with them leaping about with superb swordplay, to the remastered One Winged Angle. Forget about it. I cannot stress enough how much that whole sequence tickled me silly. The story was a bit eccentric and left me more than slightly puzzled, but all I wanted was to see Sephiroth kicking ass in real time, like never before. And in the end, isn't that what we all want?
    Advent Children was alright imo, but personally I think SE should've just left FFVII alone and done with. Since when did Cloud gain the ability to fly? True it was choreographed quite well, and in some way reminded me of the fight scenes from movies like The Stormriders, Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon etc, it was a little too drawn out. The remastered version of One Winged Angel was alright, but after hearing my cousin play his copy of it over and over and over... I'm wishing Advent Children was NEVER made in the first place.

    Naturally, there is always going to be the debate of whether some games, old or new, should have remakes or sequels. Sometimes there is no question that things should have been left well enough alone, but others that not only should have a sequel/remake but needed to be continued. I have several things in mind when I say this, but I'll leave it at that, unless someone wants me to elaborate, which I doubt.
    With remakes and sequels, there's always a bit of tricky ground surrounding them. In the case of sequels, the development team is under a lot of pressure to make a game not just worthy of being a sequel to a previous game, but also have to find ways to have it eclipse it's predecessor while still maintaining the flow of the story and character development from before. In some cases that can be down quite well, while in others, it flops big time.

    Remakes... no offense intended but that really pisses me off, and it seems to me, that all this talk of a FFVII remake sprung up due to the FFVII Technical Demo for the PS3. Thing is, there was a similar tech demo of FFVIII released for the PS2 and that inspired talk of a remake of FFVIII. Yet that talk died down rather quickly, while the FFVII tech demo has spawned more and more people stating they have proven 'facts' that FFVII is going to be remade. Even if it was remade for the PS3 or whatever console they want to put it on (Or whichever console company pays them the most $$$), I can pretty much adamantly say here and now, that I would NOT buy it.

    So, in conclusion, I'd agree that SE is been going a bit berserk these days, and needs to put FF7 on the shelf for a bit, and settle down with other newer ideas. But just because its on the shelf doesn't make it forgotten, and doesn't exclude it from the future, and bringing it once again into the now.
    But can SE survive? SE has pretty much thrown all their hopes behind the FF series to get them afloat, while other companies have not just their flagship title games, but others to help support them. If SE did make a remake of FFVII... true they'd get a huge influx of capital from the fans... but what then? Wait until another console comes out and release another remake of FFVII? SE has already had us go to the world of Ivalice three times now (FFT, FFTA and FFXII), and though they were set in different time frames, it was still the same world, with similar races and the like.

    Eventually though, the time will come for SE to leave FFVII behind and I think it'd be in their best interests to leave FFVII now, while it's still causing all this interest/debate/whatnot. I mean, in the year 2050... SE or whatever they're called releases another version of FFVII, with full sensory immersion software allowing the player to be right there besides Cloud and the others against Sephiroth?

    As my favourite entity from Star Trek The Next Generation said in the final episode....

    “All good things... must come to an end”

  10. #210
    Everyone is gifted. Some open the package sooner. Hynad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xiahou Dun View Post
    But then, they DID fire Hironobu Sakaguchi, who saved Square from going bankrupt back in the 80's by creating Final Fantasy in the first place.
    Correction: Sakaguchi wasn't fired by S-E. He LEFT.

  11. #211
    Ultima Weapon thej.master's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ROKI View Post
    What surprises me the most is that there is no game where the main character is actually, CLOUD!!!!
    Even the main character wasn't even Cloud in the original. . . he was mostly just a Cloud version of Zack

  12. #212
    Everyone is gifted. Some open the package sooner. Hynad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thej.master View Post
    Even the main character wasn't even Cloud in the original. . . he was mostly just a Cloud version of Zack
    What the hell is that fantard bullshit.
    The character being mind-controlled by Jenova isn't Zack, but Cloud. The character that grows out of his delusions once he falls into the lifestream isn't Zack, but Cloud, the character beating the crap out of Sephiroth in the last battle isn't Zack, but Cloud, etc...

    Just because Cloud lied about his past life and forged it based on his friend Zack doesn't mean he wasn't the main character.

  13. #213
    The Puppeteer TM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thej.master View Post
    Even the main character wasn't even Cloud in the original. . . he was mostly just a Cloud version of Zack
    lol


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  14. #214
    Blarghonkies!!!!1!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xiahou Dun View Post
    (Computer or even the old tabletop rpg's... that is IF anyone can remember the old AD&D games... )
    if it makes you feel better, I do.


    Anyway, I agree that they are overmilking VII, I mean come on, other games that were a hell of a lot better in my opinion deserve to have some kind of a sequel or a movie (i.e. IX or VIII, hell i wouldnt mind a few 3D remakes of V, III, or a few others.) SE's finest work is NOT VII, that was just the next step into making better games, IMO.

  15. #215
    I'm the Dude, so that's what you call me... Musical Horse's Avatar
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    Hmm, I must admit, you make a fierce debating partner Xiahou Dun, if that is your real name. You answered all of my concerns with a valid explanation of your own ideas and thoughts, and for that I salute you. Not many take the time to put forth as much effort as you do. But alas, there are a few points which I feel I must clarify, just for the sake of the topic. So, as they say, here we go again...

    Firstly, I stand behind what I said earlier about the real world. As you claimed, it was up to us to make the experience our own. True enough, but again, the sort of fanciful things I was speaking of are things that can never truly happen. At least in this stage of human evolution. Things like magic, flying, super-heroes, mythical and legendary creatures, things of that nature.

    I personally know people that are so dependent on games, movies, books, and other modes of story-telling, that they hardly realize the outside world exists. A world with constant wars, financial miseries, economic strife, and so forth, and while some may see that as sad, one cannot deny that in such a state, they are truly happy. They do not acknowledge the outside world, are not slaves to its grind, and live their lives in places where the evils of this world do not mingle with the evil of others. Such freedom is quite tantalizing.

    Some say we're captives to the real world. I say, only if we let ourselves be. We have a choice to make our own personal lives whatever we want, without the troubles and pitfalls of reality. Will this attitude bring trouble? More than likely, but a person's ultimate goal in this world is to find happiness, and if that means rejecting the real world, then so be it. Try it sometime; you may be surprised.

    Secondly, as I said, I too am aware that there is more than just one RPG in the world, FF7. I play any new RPG that comes out, as do others. All I was saying was we play other RPG's, but never forget that FF7 was still a marvel of its time, and mustn't be forgotten.

    Which brings me back to the topic of it being a classic. Understand that I fully support you when you said that people would rant and rave about a game, but not expressing as to why, and mindlessly tuning out any possible criticism against it. That too bugs the crap out of me...they just need to say its good, possibly great, and leave things at that.

    Of course back to the subject of its timelessness, the term classic is up for grabs...What makes a game, or anything for that matter, a classic? We have our own speculations. I see games that weren't deserving of the title classic was being called such, and that also irritated me.

    What is a classic? Here is my assessment. A classic is not how many sales the game makes, not how much people fall in love with and worship a game, nor is it the ability to spawn off several smaller pieces of the original whole. A classic is a game that comes out, and defies the imagination, it has all elements that make a game stand out. A driven story, a dynamic list of interesting and diverse characters (both good and evil), a fitting and bold soundtrack, a unexpected plot twist or two...in other words, a story that is so powerful that it envelops you in and guides you to tend with a undeniable sense of satisfaction at the end.

    A game that can have the player establish rapport with the characters, falling into the story and feelings kinship with them, where the borders between reality and imagination cease to be...That is a classic game. As you mentioned, too many games are being give that title unjustly these days. There is a mere handful of games...ever...that have deserved to be named classics.

    And going back to the other things classic, (And sorry for saying the world Classic so much), books and music are different, but only in the way they are preformed. In many ways, they are no different than games, a means for telling a story. True enough they are not delivered in the same way, but the essential point that they are stories being told from long in the past is proof that classics should be honored and enjoyed, years and years after they had first arrived.

    And you needn't worry about the history lesson you mentioned earlier. I actually have the books Romance of Three Kingdoms as well. And not the shorten three hundred page version, I'm talking about the 1,200 page version with Chinese style illustrations, and historical notes and all that. It even has a nice musty sort of smell. I'm quite the ROTK fan myself, and I suppose I owe it to the ROTK game, Dynasty Warriors 4, which is where I picked up the series and found myself intrigued by it.

    Anywho, moving on...Advent Children...In a sense, SE had no choice but to make it, as fans, the aforementioned crazy mindless masses, demanded a remake to FF7, but instead of complying, SE made AC instead. Which I too was interested in seeing, I'll not deny.

    I could go into a defensive rant about where and how AC had good parts, but I needn't, that's not what this response is all about, though I must note...With giant monsters shooting blue fireballs, long-haired villains coming back to life, a talking red dog, and a million other wacky things going on, the fact that Cloud can perform excessive jumps that seems like flying doesn't seem quite so peculiar by comparison.

    As for the remake, yes I know about the tech-demo for FF7, I've seen it many times myself. Again, I won't deny that I would indeed be delighted to hear of a remake, and seeing that demo no doubt inspired me to get a little giddy in the head.

    But even though I'm not one of those die-hard fans myself, look at it from their perspective...They've played FF7 for ten years, enjoying it even now; AC comes out along with other mini-games, and grow to love it even more. They want a remake so much that they're perhaps contemplating storming SE headquarters. And suddenly this visually stunning demo comes out, advertising the PS3. They finally see what they've wanted for years and years...There is no way they'll be quiet about it, not with all the other games that SE released regarding FF7. SE has stirred up the cobra's den, and no way the snakes are going back to sleep now.

    In a way, it is understandable and rather nasty of SE to do that, and then have no intension's of remaking the game, as they claim. And I can understand how those, yourself included as you said, wouldn't be interested in the remake. I know others who share the sentiment. Though I have a suspicion that those that do want a remake outweigh the ones who don't, and as the world has shown us, the majority's wants are the ones met.

    Other classical things, books and music, (once again), have been altered with the coming of the future, remastered and redone. Were they all good? Of course not. Many sucked outright. But not all. Would we deny ourselves that one good things, a things that could possible be a gemstone in disguise, just to avoid the perpetual avalanche of crap that comes with it? If we did that, we might be without some of our most illustrious works of art. No reason to do it now.

    And I still stand by my belief that for now, SE should put the FF franchise on hold, as I think SE can survive, even without FF series. I've played other games of theirs. Not overwhelmingly awesome, but passable and entertaining. If someone could come up with a series as memorable and powerful as FF, it can be done again, one must merely keep hoping and keep trying.

    So in conclusion, (once again), yes, I think SE needs to put FF7 and maybe FF as whole down for a bit, and try and work on something new, but that in no way suggests that they should forget about it. If it is in the destiny of FF7 to become a virtual reality game in the future of forty-two years, then so be it. We'll all be old or dead by then, so what would we care? Why should only we enjoy the original, and deny other generations the same privilege?

    And my view of matters in this, as you quoted...

    "All good things must come to an end..."

    My thoughts? Only if you let them. Nothing has to end as far as I'm concerned. If we don't want to let go, than you'd better believe we ain't giving up without a damn good fight. And furthermore as the human race has shown, we and our culture can and will survive. After all, we've weathered wars, plagues, nuclear bombs, George W. Bush...hell we can handle just about everything life throws at us.

    Perhaps, in the grandest scheme of things out in the universe, there is an actual end, one day perhaps millions or billions of years down the road. But why worry about that now?
    ...
    ...
    ...
    I seem to be getting off topic again. So sorry. Anyway, I'll finish now with a favorite quote of my own...

    "I will...never be a memory." Amen to that brother...

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  16. #216
    Grand Shriner RikkuYunaRinoa's Avatar
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    Can i submit it please musical horse??

  17. #217
    GTI Enthusiast z.zetsumei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Musical Horse
    I seem to be getting off topic again. So sorry. Anyway, I'll finish now with a favorite quote of my own...

    "I will...never be a memory."
    Oh yes you will. When your ass is grass you will be a fucking memory, so deal with it and stop with the delusions.

  18. #218
    Blarghonkies!!!!1!
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    Quote Originally Posted by z.zetsumei View Post
    Oh yes you will. When your ass is grass you will be a fucking memory, so deal with it and stop with the delusions.
    uhmmm, everyone is entitled to their opinions. And is it just me or are you threatening him/her? cause uh, usually when someone says "when your ass is grass" some form of a beating is about to go down. You two, keep debating. Its hilariously educational. Loving it.
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  19. #219
    Grand Shriner Dot Centaur's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by z.zetsumei View Post
    Oh yes you will. When your ass is grass you will be a fucking memory, so deal with it and stop with the delusions.
    ...

































































































    I lol'ed
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  20. #220
    I'm the Dude, so that's what you call me... Musical Horse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by z.zetsumei View Post
    Oh yes you will. When your ass is grass you will be a fucking memory, so deal with it and stop with the delusions.
    Why must you take things so seriously, I wonder. I was merely making a point, and you recoil as if I directly insulted you. Perhaps you should be a tad less sensitive, lest you look like an overbearing namby-pamby.

    Furthermore, what exactly did I say that you would classify as a delusion? Hmm? I simply made a sophisticated argument with the esteemed Xiahou Dun, with valid points of my own opinion about our conversations. I fail to see that as being called a delusion.

    And you got so moody about the AC quote. Spoken like a true literalist I suppose. Oh my god, says you, lets take everything we see on the Internet seriously! Tsk tsk...

    Two words of advice to you...First you may want to relax a bit, lest that future stomach ulcer of yours starts acting up on you. And two...repeat first piece of advice. Being uptight is no fun, so do yourself a favor and grow a sense of humor. Thanks so much.

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  21. #221
    jen' jari iv tave sith Darth Revan's Avatar
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    Sorry all... this post is gonna be even longer than my other... and for that I apologize...

    Round Two... Ding Ding...

    Originally posted by Musical Horse

    Firstly, I stand behind what I said earlier about the real world. As you claimed, it was up to us to make the experience our own. True enough, but again, the sort of fanciful things I was speaking of are things that can never truly happen. At least in this stage of human evolution. Things like magic, flying, super-heroes, mythical and legendary creatures, things of that nature.

    I personally know people that are so dependent on games, movies, books, and other modes of story-telling, that they hardly realize the outside world exists. A world with constant wars, financial miseries, economic strife, and so forth, and while some may see that as sad, one cannot deny that in such a state, they are truly happy. They do not acknowledge the outside world, are not slaves to its grind, and live their lives in places where the evils of this world do not mingle with the evil of others. Such freedom is quite tantalizing.

    Some say we're captives to the real world. I say, only if we let ourselves be. We have a choice to make our own personal lives whatever we want, without the troubles and pitfalls of reality. Will this attitude bring trouble? More than likely, but a person's ultimate goal in this world is to find happiness, and if that means rejecting the real world, then so be it. Try it sometime; you may be surprised.
    ok... let's break this down... first of all, the real world exists and is all around us. Playing video games can be a form of escapism (I know I've used FFXI in this form), but utlimately you can't play a videogame 24/7. Doing so, not only destroys some forms of relationships in real life (family, friends, spouse, children etc), but can lead to obsessive paranoia to the point that the videogame CAN become your REAL WORLD. This has mainly happened with MMO's... but I've seen my cousin, play GTA SA to the exclusion of anything else.

    Regarding things like magic, mythical and legendary creatures and the like.. let's break this down as well. Firstly, Magic. A lot of things which were considered to be magic a century ago can be explained due to science nowadays. As a friend of mine once said (and I have no idea where he got this from), Science can explain a lot, and what isn't covered in the realm of Science can be construed as Magic. Magic is just unexplained Science. Personally I think he took a few too many blows to the head when he was younger, but meh.

    Mythical and legendary creatures... Things like dragons for example, do have real world representatives. The Kimodo Dragon for example. The thing with myths and legends, some can only be taken at face value, and are usually based on something which did exist in real life, but over time have lost the actual representation of what they were and have, over the course of being retold, discrepancies have taken a life of their own, and altered the truth. But then truth is usually in the eye of the beholder.

    In regards to your final paragraph, captives to the real world, that may be true from a certain point of view. We all were born with the ability to choose what we want to do with our lives. If people choose to spend their lives playing videogames, then god bless you. Just realise, that even though you choose to do so, or in your own words reject the real world, there are others around you and to not forget about them either. Try it sometime; you may be surprised., I have tried it... after my partner of eight years passed away, I became totally absorbed in playing videogames, reading novellas and the like. Eventually, I had to face my daemons and come back.

    Secondly, as I said, I too am aware that there is more than just one RPG in the world, FF7. I play any new RPG that comes out, as do others. All I was saying was we play other RPG's, but never forget that FF7 was still a marvel of its time, and mustn't be forgotten.
    There were other rpg's which were released before FFVII, Konami's Suikoden and Vandal Hearts are two of my personal favourites. While I admit, that FFVII DID have a certain something which made it a good game. Nowadays, it is eclipsed by rpg's of today, while also at the same time it STILL eclipses some of them. I never stated it should be forgotten, but with how some people still revere it as if it's the second coming of christ, and verbally abuse others for playing other rpg's and in some cases saying that another rpg is better than FFVII, those people I can not tolerate one little bit.

    Yes, I realise that sounds like I'm a hypocrite, bagging FFVII and going on about other rpg's. As I said before I was a fan of FFVII, and for a long time I did consider FFVII to be my favourite game. Then, I found other rpg's, which drew me into them more, than FFVII did.

    Which brings me back to the topic of it being a classic. Understand that I fully support you when you said that people would rant and rave about a game, but not expressing as to why, and mindlessly tuning out any possible criticism against it. That too bugs the crap out of me...they just need to say its good, possibly great, and leave things at that.

    Of course back to the subject of its timelessness, the term classic is up for grabs...What makes a game, or anything for that matter, a classic? We have our own speculations. I see games that weren't deserving of the title classic was being called such, and that also irritated me.

    What is a classic? Here is my assessment. A classic is not how many sales the game makes, not how much people fall in love with and worship a game, nor is it the ability to spawn off several smaller pieces of the original whole. A classic is a game that comes out, and defies the imagination, it has all elements that make a game stand out. A driven story, a dynamic list of interesting and diverse characters (both good and evil), a fitting and bold soundtrack, a unexpected plot twist or two...in other words, a story that is so powerful that it envelops you in and guides you to tend with a undeniable sense of satisfaction at the end.

    A game that can have the player establish rapport with the characters, falling into the story and feelings kinship with them, where the borders between reality and imagination cease to be...That is a classic game. As you mentioned, too many games are being give that title unjustly these days. There is a mere handful of games...ever...that have deserved to be named classics.

    And going back to the other things classic, (And sorry for saying the world Classic so much), books and music are different, but only in the way they are preformed. In many ways, they are no different than games, a means for telling a story. True enough they are not delivered in the same way, but the essential point that they are stories being told from long in the past is proof that classics should be honored and enjoyed, years and years after they had first arrived.
    I admit I agree with some of what you say here. But that doesn't mean that everyone else does. Regarding the gaming industry and 'classic', Sony has it's 'classic' collection under the title of the 'Platinum Series' here in Australia. From what I understand, this series of games are given this title, due to overwhelming sales figures, reviews and the like. In this form, the world 'classic' loses much of what it stands for.

    And you needn't worry about the history lesson you mentioned earlier. I actually have the books Romance of Three Kingdoms as well. And not the shorten three hundred page version, I'm talking about the 1,200 page version with Chinese style illustrations, and historical notes and all that. It even has a nice musty sort of smell. I'm quite the ROTK fan myself, and I suppose I owe it to the ROTK game, Dynasty Warriors 4, which is where I picked up the series and found myself intrigued by it.
    I have the 2 volume set, written by Lo Kuan-chung, translated by C.H. Brewitt-Taylor and is about 120 chapters in length. Koei's Dynasty Warrior series was loosely inspired by the novella, yet from what I've heard the latest version of DW has changed a lot from the early versions. I've been a fan of the game since Dynasty Warriors 2 (Shin Sangoku Musou).

    Anywho, moving on...Advent Children...In a sense, SE had no choice but to make it, as fans, the aforementioned crazy mindless masses, demanded a remake to FF7, but instead of complying, SE made AC instead. Which I too was interested in seeing, I'll not deny.

    I could go into a defensive rant about where and how AC had good parts, but I needn't, that's not what this response is all about, though I must note...With giant monsters shooting blue fireballs, long-haired villains coming back to life, a talking red dog, and a million other wacky things going on, the fact that Cloud can perform excessive jumps that seems like flying doesn't seem quite so peculiar by comparison.
    I was mildly interested in seeing Advent Children, but to be honest, I wasn't caught up in the hype regarding it. It seemed in some places to rewrite what was already stated in the game in some regard, but meh... that's something which happens, when you take one form of medium and transfer it to another... you do get some changes here and there. Advent Children is a sequel to FFVII, which some people wanted. My own personal feelings regarding sequels and such... FFVII was complete as it was, at least to me that is. That's what it boils down to, what each individual wants and what they perceive.

    As for the remake, yes I know about the tech-demo for FF7, I've seen it many times myself. Again, I won't deny that I would indeed be delighted to hear of a remake, and seeing that demo no doubt inspired me to get a little giddy in the head.

    But even though I'm not one of those die-hard fans myself, look at it from their perspective...They've played FF7 for ten years, enjoying it even now; AC comes out along with other mini-games, and grow to love it even more. They want a remake so much that they're perhaps contemplating storming SE headquarters. And suddenly this visually stunning demo comes out, advertising the PS3. They finally see what they've wanted for years and years...There is no way they'll be quiet about it, not with all the other games that SE released regarding FF7. SE has stirred up the cobra's den, and no way the snakes are going back to sleep now.

    In a way, it is understandable and rather nasty of SE to do that, and then have no intension's of remaking the game, as they claim. And I can understand how those, yourself included as you said, wouldn't be interested in the remake. I know others who share the sentiment. Though I have a suspicion that those that do want a remake outweigh the ones who don't, and as the world has shown us, the majority's wants are the ones met.
    The tech demo, as I understand it, were to demonstrate the graphical capabilities of the PS3. The team who worked on it, have moved on to other projects within SE. True, when it came out, a lot of people, on many forums, were ecstatic as a lot of them thought it was a actual trailer for a remake of FFVII for the PS3. If I was asked, back in 2000 if I wanted a remake of FFVII, in all honesty I'd probably say YES!. Now, I'd rather SE never remade it, but that's just my personal preference.

    Other classical things, books and music, (once again), have been altered with the coming of the future, remastered and redone. Were they all good? Of course not. Many sucked outright. But not all. Would we deny ourselves that one good things, a things that could possible be a gemstone in disguise, just to avoid the perpetual avalanche of crap that comes with it? If we did that, we might be without some of our most illustrious works of art. No reason to do it now.

    And I still stand by my belief that for now, SE should put the FF franchise on hold, as I think SE can survive, even without FF series. I've played other games of theirs. Not overwhelmingly awesome, but passable and entertaining. If someone could come up with a series as memorable and powerful as FF, it can be done again, one must merely keep hoping and keep trying.

    So in conclusion, (once again), yes, I think SE needs to put FF7 and maybe FF as whole down for a bit, and try and work on something new, but that in no way suggests that they should forget about it. If it is in the destiny of FF7 to become a virtual reality game in the future of forty-two years, then so be it. We'll all be old or dead by then, so what would we care? Why should only we enjoy the original, and deny other generations the same privilege?
    SE has worked on other games, the Front Mission series, Bushido Blade, Vagrant Story just to name a few and they've even tried their hands at a go-kartesque racing game with Chocobo Racing. While each has been, or hasn't been successful on their own, they haven't amassed as much capital and reputation for SE than their flagship title Final Fantasy.

    Who's to say that the future generations will be interested in playing a FFVII? By then, if SE is still around and making FF's... they could be up to FFXXXVII or something ridiculous by then. There are people I know, who have played FFVII, and they actually hate and despise it, preferring to play either earlier FF's, or other games entirely.

    I just think SE should leave the world of FFVII behind, and focus on other titles now. In a industry where it is so cut throat to get ahead like the gaming industry is, SE needs to have fresh ideas to keep them going.

    And my view of matters in this, as you quoted...

    "All good things must come to an end..."

    My thoughts? Only if you let them. Nothing has to end as far as I'm concerned. If we don't want to let go, than you'd better believe we ain't giving up without a damn good fight. And furthermore as the human race has shown, we and our culture can and will survive. After all, we've weathered wars, plagues, nuclear bombs, George W. Bush...hell we can handle just about everything life throws at us.

    Perhaps, in the grandest scheme of things out in the universe, there is an actual end, one day perhaps millions or billions of years down the road. But why worry about that now?
    ...
    ...
    ...
    I seem to be getting off topic again. So sorry. Anyway, I'll finish now with a favorite quote of my own...

    "I will...never be a memory." Amen to that brother...
    When we are young, we have certain likes and dislikes, yet as we grow older, they change over time. Nothing lasts forever... eventually everything crumbles away to dust and nothingness. Squaresoft and Enix in a sense both died and were reborn when Squaresoft assimilated Enix into itself and became SquareEnix. Even memories can fade over time as well. Change is inevitable, as are birth and death, night and day.

    My end quote this time -

    I am Alpha and Omega.

    Beginning and the End.

    The First and the Last

  22. #222
    GTI Enthusiast z.zetsumei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Musical Horse View Post
    Why must you take things so seriously, I wonder. I was merely making a point, and you recoil as if I directly insulted you. Perhaps you should be a tad less sensitive, lest you look like an overbearing namby-pamby.

    Furthermore, what exactly did I say that you would classify as a delusion? Hmm? I simply made a sophisticated argument with the esteemed Xiahou Dun, with valid points of my own opinion about our conversations. I fail to see that as being called a delusion.

    And you got so moody about the AC quote. Spoken like a true literalist I suppose. Oh my god, says you, lets take everything we see on the Internet seriously! Tsk tsk...

    Two words of advice to you...First you may want to relax a bit, lest that future stomach ulcer of yours starts acting up on you. And two...repeat first piece of advice. Being uptight is no fun, so do yourself a favor and grow a sense of humor. Thanks so much.
    Since Xiahou hit my problems with your argument dead on, especially the part about video games being a form of escapism from the daily grind. I'll cut to the chase.

    Stop dreaming about your opinion meaning anything unless you've got gobs of money, loads of charisma, and/or both. You openly admit you've got no life other than music and games as per this screenshot: So how can someone who's most likely had no real outside life know what it's like to live and breathe in the wonder that is the Sun?

    And just so you know, backing opinion with opinon does NOT validate it any more than backing with horse shit. You use plenty of "my"s and "I"s for me to label your posts as shit.

    P.S. By the way I loved the whole "grow a sense of humor" jab seeing as it's surely the other way around. I mean, Centaur took the time to post up his reaction. So just keep running around worshipping FFAC and putting up gay things like links to "Which Final Fantasy 7 character are you?" quizzes and FF7 sections on other forums, and I'll just keep pissing on your Gay Pride Parade.

  23. #223
    I'm the Dude, so that's what you call me... Musical Horse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by z.zetsumei View Post
    P.S. By the way I loved the whole "grow a sense of humor" jab seeing as it's surely the other way around. I mean, Centaur took the time to post up his reaction. So just keep running around worshipping FFAC and putting up gay things like links to "Which Final Fantasy 7 character are you?" quizzes and FF7 sections on other forums, and I'll just keep pissing on your Gay Pride Parade.
    My my my...you certainly are a nasty wrath-filled little person aren't you? And I find it amusing that you are getting so worked up over so simple a thing as my opinion on FF7 and the others topics I touched base upon. Goodness, it was as if I was talking about world politics or my views on atheism or something.

    "Stop dreaming as if my opinion has meaning, unless you have money and/or charisma?"

    That's very nice. Though perhaps I should offer you your own brilliant advice, you who gives your opinion that is more than likely equally pointless, due to your lack of mounds of cash and your charisma and etiquette skills that rivals a sheep's bladder.

    As for what I wrote in my profile...well, there was only a limited about of typing space, so excuse me for not putting my whole autobiography down. As with many people, I have assorted interests, outside of the two things mentioned. And furthermore, are you so dense that you really take these things so literally? What if I had written down that I was an alien or the spirit of a deceased composer? Would you have reacted the same way?

    So, to unfortunately unhinge your theory, I have a very clear idea what the outside world is all about, and I think I've seen my fill of it for one lifetime. And if that bothers you, then go take it up with counselor. There's a good lamb.

    Do you honestly think I will change my opinion because of one spiteful yahoo on the Internet, on one site from the Internet, thinks I'm wrong? Tsk tsk...

    Here's my advice, as a baker...Eat a cookie. They make people happy, and god knowns you could use it. Hell, you could use a couple hundred. There's little point in being a kill-joy or an excessively angry person, lest you do get that ulcer I was mentioning.

    And no, that piece of advice about a sense of humor...that was for you, not for me. My sense of humor is there, it's just most people don't understand it. Sophisticated humor, which makes me assume since you didn't get it...well, I'd like to be delicate but...I guess it means you're an idiot. Which is clear by the way you justify your own words by throwing in "shit" and others, lacking a better vocabulary. How droll...

    And I can't really recall ever saying the word "Worship" or even imply that I do so. Simply enjoying something and imparting holy rites upon it are two very different things, but since I assume you're a very bitter soul, that you don't know the difference. So, why don't you go back to your spiteful little world of bitching and moaning about your own equally pointless opinion (Remember lack of money and charisma?) and let us normal folk enjoy our own interests without your antagonistic commentary.

    And I see you're also running out of ammunition...When all else fails, you call someone gay, or insight gayness on what they do. How original. Do yourself yet another favor and stop that crap. I may be wrong (maybe but probably not) about you being a nasty little person. Well, unless you're striving to prove me right (unless I already am, which I'm fairly certain I am), you might want to be a bit less offensive to others, lest they think that of you.

    So, I'm afraid you'll have to try a wee bit harder than that Junior to get under my skin. I've endured worse, and in person from more influential people.

    Oh, and one last thing. There are three things in the world that make a person's opinion valid, not just two. And I think with humanities bloody history, you'll see the truth in it. As you said, one is money and two is charisma. The third is an even older principle than the first two. It is excessive physical force. Which basically mean, one has the power to beat the tar out of someone until they listen and agree. I may be lacking the first two, I'll not deny, but I'm lucky to have the third. So, unfortunately for you, that does make my opinions valid. Tough luck Chuck.

    I wonder...can you say the same? I sincerely doubt it. But hey, you've been to my profile, you know where I live. You ever want to try me yourself, my doors are always open. I'm always a fan of solving ones differences the old-fashion way.

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  24. #224
    The darkness writhes. execrable gumwrapper's Avatar
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    Musical Horse, as much as I applauded you for your mature stance against z.zetsumei's uncalled for reactions, you kind of blew it with the "come to my house and I'll beat you up" ending.

    JFTR, internet tough guys get mass amounts of ridicule and are hardly taken seriously.

    Other than that, bravo.
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  25. #225
    I'm the Dude, so that's what you call me... Musical Horse's Avatar
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    Well, I thank you for your words. And heh...what can I say, that's how I am in person as well, so I just extended it across the Internet.

    And trust me, I've taken ridicule by dozens, perhaps hundreds of people before because of my brash attitude, and I've never let it phase me. Nonetheless, I stand by my invitation for the simple reason that it's the truth. The fact that I put down the Country, State, and City where I live verifies that I'm spoiling for a fight, and would welcome it.

    But hey, that's just how I am, I'm just crazy like that. But again, thanks for the support otherwise.


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