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Thread: Enormous FF7 AC Theory Analysis (Major Spoilers)

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    Because they are idiots.


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    The end all know all of FF7 Ek0mst0p1's Avatar
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    wait who are idiots gamefaqer or people with crap theories
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    People with crap theories.

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    The end all know all of FF7 Ek0mst0p1's Avatar
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    Oh cool i like game faq's way more reliable then pretty much anywhere. Not to mention there is a lot of info for older games like this one.

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    My take and it's a pretty big one (HUGE SPOILERS FROM CRISIS CORE)

    The release of Crisis Core throws a huge monkey wrench into the equation there's no question about it. Playing through the game changes quite a bit about the way things are in Final Fantasy VII and in Advent Children. I'll give a take on each caption taking all three parts (AC, CC, and FF7) into account. I have not played Dirge of Cerberus so I won't add anything from that into this.

    Aeris' role in AC

    Aeris going back to CC and through FF7 displays superhuman powers in a more 'good' way than Sephiroth, as close as the opposite to her as it gets. She 'communicates with the Planet,' a gift of all Ancients apparently, and that allowed her to know when her adopted mother's husband died in the game and how she knew when Zack died in CC even though she hadn't heard from him in 4 years. This leads me to believe she has an affinity to the Lifestream as a result of her being an Ancient/Cetra.

    As far as whether or not spirits exist in this world, the presence of Zack in the flashes Cloud has and Sephiroth's use of the Lifestream in FF7 outside of his physical body shows that the Lifestream can be used in some capacity. I would not say that she is a 'spirit' but rather that her 'returning to the Planet' allows her soul to live on without a physical form and her descendence from the Cetra allows her to do great things from within the Planet for Cloud and probably whoever she wants. The difference between Sephiroth and Aeris' use of the Lifestream to me comes down to their respective descendence. Jenova wants to cripple the Planet and the Cetra want to defend it. You could say that the Lifestream is composed of those opposing forces and the neutral presence of humans and animals making up the majority of its composition.

    Another area I think Aeris becomes a presence in is how Kadaj is run off from the church and Cloud's Geostigma is healed. There is evidence from FF7 that suggests that Jenova was sealed by a small group of Ancients that fought and defeated her roughly 2,000 years prior to the events of the Nibelheim reactor (the link between CC and FF7). Jenova is also attributed to a mass genocide of the Cetra as well, taking on human forms and infecting the people. Aeris probably learns this when communing with the Planet and may or may not learn about what Professor Gast had been discussing with Ilfalna, her mother, as recorded at Icicle Inn. Ilfalna talked about the battle with Jenova and how she was defeated as well as WEAPON. If anything, Aeris' ability to heal Cloud and how the Lifestream pocket heals Geostigma goes to reveal that the Cetra were the biggest threat to Jenova and to its infections/power. She might be taking on the role as the planet's defender as a Cetra with this just as she armed the Planet with Holy to combat Meteor in FF7. Her descendence from Cetra might not just let her talk to the Planet, but defend the Planet from anything that may harm it, chiefly Jenova or Jenova-infused remnants (Sephiroth, Kadaj, etc.) Aeris apparently becomes stronger in the Lifestream with time, considering how she did not have this presence in FF7. It might be a sign of her development.

    The Wolf

    Without playing CC, the Zack theory is silly. All Zack is in FF7 is the guy who Cloud takes on in his memories and the SOLDIER 1st class who Cloud gets the Buster Sword from. But when you play CC, the references at almost every location to Zack are wholly coinciding. Zack is not only a very powerful being in is own right during his lifetime, but, as discovered in CC, was injected with Sephiroth cells along with Cloud. Just as Sephiroth was able to use parts of Jenova and his 'clones' that CC explains, however indirectly, as people injected with Sephiroth cells, Zack may have been able to use a wolf avatar to come back into the world physically. My take on each sighting of the wolf.

    Overlooking Midgar - Zack's employer Shinra and its SOLDIER Department essentially run his life for his entire adult life. From 17 years old on, he works for Shinra and the presence of his mentor's old sword makes the reference all too fitting. Add that to his mentor's nickname for him as 'Zack the puppy' for his lack of attention span and focus and even his hairstyle and the wolf avatar is almost a no-brainer. He's joining Cloud in looking back at where he met Aeris, served Shinra, and even the place where he left the world of the living. If you play through CC, the ending cutscene is enough to make watching that scene an emotional one, not just a cool panoramic shot of the ruins of Midgar.

    Inside the Church - Zack met Aeris in the church the same way Cloud did and the place is probably extremely important to him. Zack is also very good friends with Cloud, which only a small part was shown in FF7. Maybe he goes to see him and his wife/girlfriend. Zack even kind of asked Cloud about Tifa in CC when they went to Nibelheim, so maybe he was checking up on Cloud and Tifa to see where they've moved toward.

    The water in the Forgotten City - Unless I'm mistaken this was the pool that Cloud put Aeris in when she died or if its not could be another entry point into an underground aquifer underneath the city. Either way it's symbolic, assuming the wolf is Zack. Zack might be going to the place his love interest died and might be honoring her resting place. Cloud's phone plays his friends leaving messages and he might be remembering his friends and his phone that he used when he was in SOLDIER.

    Cloud's mind - This could represent Zack helping Cloud once again. In CC, he essentially keeps an unconscious Cloud with him for a stretch of traveling from Nibelheim to Gongaga to Banora to Midgar, a very long stretch of the world. He protects Cloud many times and takes on a big brother role to him. Cloud's death in the explosion might have seen intervention not only from Aeris but Zack as well. Their entrance into Cloud's memory and the Lifestream essentially spitting him back out might suggest both believe Cloud has more to accomplish in his life past the events of AC.

    Those who have played Crisis Core know that Zack was a humongous influence in Cloud's life and it cannot be underestimated how much it influences him. See my themes at the bottom for more explanation. It's safe to say though that after you play CC and if you accept the wolf as Zack, you'll see it as much more than just some random wolf that makes a few appearances.

    Kadaj, Yazoo and Loz's origin

    It all goes back to Reunion. This ultimately was Hojo's attempt to find Sephiroth's body and maybe reanimate him. Sephiroth is, after all, Hojo's son and it could be very possible that the black cloaked people in FF7 were just some of the subjects of this experiment. Kadaj, Yazoo, and Loz were obviously much stronger than the black cloaked people, probably just lower tier SOLDIER/Shinra army members or even normal people. My guess at their origin is that Hojo was attempting to create a new version of Sephiroth and created those three, flawed failures that weren't anywhere close. How he did this is totally uncertain. Every Jenova-infused figure in FF7 had parents (Genesis and Angeal from CC, and Sephiroth). Could Hojo have done what he did to Lucretia to other women? (Inject J cells into them and get them pregnant) As the head of the Shinra Science Department he would have more than enough resources to do so. The thing with Lucretia though is that she was brilliant, a scientist for Shinra. Kadaj and Co.'s mother was probably much less promising a mother for a recreated Sephiroth and their births were inconsequential in comparison. Their fraternal relationship supports a single mother not multiple ones (not just Jenova, the surrogate human 'test' mother). Their task in the experiment probably changed when Cloud awakened Sephiroth with the Black Materia, which Hojo did not expect at all. Their goal manifested in AC to reawaken Sephiroth on their search for 'Mother'.

    My best guess is that they were born to a human mother and father that were both injected with Jenova cells as test subjects for Hojo's Reunion experiment before the events of FF7.

    Sephiroth's Goal

    Sephiroth is portrayed not just as the guy who finds out he was a test subject in a freak experiment that wants to punish the world in CC. He had two close friends, Genesis and Angeal, and finds out that their births had something to do with 'Ancient cell injection' and ultimately finds out that Jenova cells were the culprit to their births as well as his. Just imagine that; your best friends are both experiment subjects and your entire life was created essentially in a test tube. That would make anyone go crazy. Sephiroth learns that Jenova was the force that brought the Cetra to their knees and claims Jenova strongly as his mother. Add that to the fact that Jenova possessed otherworldly strength and intelligence and Sephiroth's abilities are superhuman as well and you've got yourself the most powerful single force in the Planet's history.

    Sephiroth was born from Hojo and Lucretia, both subjects injected with Jenova, which explains his human form. Throughout FF7 he learns about the Black Materia and wants to cause a huge injury to the Planet, absorb the energy and become even more powerful. He fails and is left in the Lifestream again at the hands of Cloud.

    With this background information setting up AC, Sephiroth's goal appears to be in three parts: punish the human race with sickness (geostigma) and its leader Cloud, reanimate his body through Kadaj, Yazoo and Loz by infusing them with concentrated Jenova cells, and to 'use this planet as a vessel to find a new home.'

    By punishing the human race, he is infecting its children with Geostigma. The targets were almost entirely children probably for two purposes: to plant a seed for more Jenova influenced humans later on and for the second part of punishing the human race: punishing its champion, Cloud. The orphans infected are all under his care and he becomes pretty depressed by everything going on, likely blaming himself for it to some degree along with the incredible guilt he carries on his shoulders. I think Sephiroth plans for the fight with Cloud by infecting him with Geostigma and using its effect on the orphans to lower Cloud's spirits so he can kill him, the only real obstacle between him and his larger goal, easier.

    The second part is using Yazoo, Kadaj, and Loz to find a piece of Jenova and using its higher concentration to reanimate his body. Cloud's reawakening of Sephiroth in FF7 required a very powerful source of power in the Black Materia to bring him back to life. This in mind, Jenova's cellular structure appears to be what Sephiroth has to do to come back to life again. This search is kind of like a Voldemort-esque use of puppets to find the source of his rebirth.

    The vessel bit he says to Cloud before he fights him might be his larger goal of getting the hell out of dodge as quickly as possible. Maybe he realizes that Aeris and Cloud will be too strong a counterinfluence to fully take over this Planet and he wants to try another one. If he can get out of Gaia he can do what Jenova did 2,000 years ago and attempt to claim a planet for his own.

    Jenova's Headshot

    Jenova's box was slightly cut in the Rufus/Kadaj fight and Kadaj hangs on to the rest of it. Kadaj then uses the rest to reanimate Sephiroth since the portion is apparently a concentrated enough part to allow that to happen.

    Orphan's Role in the Movie

    The orphans are the primary target of the Geostigma probably because they are all under the care of Cloud and they could be affected enough to become Jenova-infused Sephiroth-like remnants if they're infected for a long period of time. I don't see their role with Bahamut as consequential because Kadaj uses Materia to summon it. Their role IMO is to provide an obstacle to Cloud to me. They slow him down in the Forgotten City and provide a problem for Tifa and Cloud when Kadaj summons Bahamut. It's part of my guess at Sephiroth's goal to punish the human race to mess with Cloud and possibly to gain more power over time through the children's prolonged Jenova infection. They do become stronger by that part of the movie as well, with Tifa being unable to move Denzel at one point.

    What it all means in the plot

    I think that Sephiroth's three-pronged goal was to bring Cloud to a state of depression by infecting him and the orphans in his care, while empowering Jenova remnants Kadaj and Co., created likely by Hojo prior to the events of FF7 as part of 'Reunion', to find a Jenova sample that, when combined with Kadaj, will reanimate Sephiroth. At this point, Sephiroth will kill a mentally weakened Cloud, whose orphans and illness cause self-doubt and a physical weakening, leave the planet and attempt to take over a more promising, less resistant one.

    Cloud does not falter, however. Aeris' continuing influence by healing his Geostigma and inspiring him along the way, Cloud's friends helping him realize his strength, and Zack's more hidden influence with the wolf form at helping him further realize his past, all combine to bring Cloud to even higher levels of power. Remember, Cloud needed his friends to defeat Sephiroth's new form at the end of FF7 before winning a duel with Sephiroth's human form at the end. Now, Cloud possesses otherworldly abilities that he did not have in FF7. Motorcycle fighting ability, unbelievable leaping ability and even the capacity to fly with enough physical strength to cut through parts of the Shinra building. This all leads to being able to fight and defeat Sephiroth all by himself without the influence of Materia. By the end of AC he is stronger physically than Sephiroth ever was.

    It's essentially Sephiroth trying to get revenge against Cloud and the human race while hoping to obtain the kind of power Jenova had in using a planet's power to obtain a new one, with Cloud rising even higher to the occasion as a full-fledged one man army that defeats Sephiroth by himself as well as keeping the collateral damage from Kadaj and Co. to a minimum while saving the orphans and the world for that matter.

    This leads me to a few broader arcs between all three stories of CC, FF7 and AC

    Cloud and Sephiroth's Link

    Cloud and Sephiroth are both symbolic and the representatives to what I would call the three forces in the world of FF7: The Cetra (Aeris), Humanity (Cloud and Zack), and Jenova (Sephiroth).

    Cloud kills Sephiroth and thwarts his apocalyptic plans twice, each more impressive than the last. Cloud looks up to Sephiroth as a hero when he leaves for SOLDIER, and Sephiroth kills just about everyone he grew up with. Cloud gets him back and avenges their deaths, Tifa and Zack's near death, and is inspired through the betrayal by his idol.

    When Cloud and Zack are in the Shinra mansion, as revealed by CC, they are exposed to concentrated Mako energy for four full years and injected with Sephiroth cells to boot. A very interesting bit of information becomes apparent when one of the antagonists, Professor Hollander, describes cloud as 'the last pure sample of S cells in the world,' S cells being Sephiroth cells.

    This bit really explains Cloud's growing development physically. In CC, he is as weak as it gets. Pathetic really. He gets knocked down by this Professor Hollander like a toy and is easily fatigued and sickly. In FF7, he is physically fit and becomes stronger as the game goes on. In AC, he is unbelievably powerful and a Sephiroth-like presence in terms of his physical prowess. 'The last pure sample of S Cells' might be representative of the new power he obtains through this exposure to Mako and Sephiroth cell injection along with his inner drive to defend his friends, their memories and do what's right.

    This link doesn't just make Cloud considerably stronger, but gives Sephiroth a power over him in FF7. The mysterious voice in his head is Cloud's former self trying to talk to him throughout the game, trying to get this 'new Cloud' identity to stop living the lie before it's too late. This S cell link gives Sephiroth a glimpse into what's going on as shown most fully at the events in the Northern Crater. Sephiroth realizes that Cloud's memory is completely distorted and that Cloud believes he's Zack. He uses that, Cloud's insecurity, and his logic to convince Cloud that he's just a clone like the others Hojo made for the Reunion. Cloud accepts this as truth and gives Sephiroth the Black Materia. This becomes a blessing for Sephiroth and a pretty good one at that. Sephiroth comes back to life and only after Cloud realizes who he is with Tifa does he stop him.

    The link between the two happens within the events of the game and movie and through their physical bodies as well.

    Zack's Effect on FF7 and AC

    Zack is highlighted primarily in CC and his influence continues through both stories.

    The most important influence is his friendship to Cloud. Zack is like a brother to Cloud after seeing the events of CC play out, and the way Cloud acts in FF7 is an adjusted version of Cloud using the high energy, cocky and natural leadership of Zack's persona. Cloud basically becomes an extended version of Zack for the better part of FF7. How he's able to do this is probably a combination of the memory loss created by the four year exposure to Mako energy, his desire to be the hero he always wanted to be, and his memory of the hero he is inspired by in Zack, whom he emulates as Zack's 'living legacy' which Zack tells him he is in his dying words. Cloud repeats the words like he accepts it as truth, which might be what turns him into the 'new Cloud' at the start of FF7 and throughout the game. It fools Tifa because she doesn't recognize Cloud's new personality but remembers him from their past, and Aeris because he acts so much like Zack but he's not. Tifa remembers Zack from the Nibelheim incident but can't ever say it in front of Cloud until she is forced to in Cloud's reawakening. Aeris probably never learns of Cloud's past until she becomes a part of the Lifestream. There she is reunited with Zack and learns about Zack's role in Nibelheim and how Cloud acts so much like him and knows what went on. This isn't even counting how be basically becomes SOLDIER's right arm for the better part of his adult life, with Sephiroth having the posterboy role with Zack doing the real work behind the scenes.

    Zack's role with the Buster sword is also a lot deeper. The ginormous ass kicking sword becomes even more bad ass as a gift from his mentor Angeal and the 'symbol of my dreams and honor' that he passes on to Cloud.

    Zack was, ironically, the only real hero in SOLDIER despite Sephiroth's cult following in Shinra and through the media as the most brilliant of all heroes. He lives the life of the iconic tragic hero, who touches everyone's lives in a positive way and had something brilliant going on with Aeris before he dies. He does Shinra's work for them, defeating Wutai in the war that gives them world control, but he never does anything immoral or cruel in CC and defeats a powerful entity in Genesis, the clone spawning host that becomes Shinra's foil in CC. In the end, Shinra pisses on Zack by having him do all their legwork, declaring him dead after he and Cloud stop Sephiroth before he gets started on his new aim at destroying the human race, and kill him after he, apparently without their knowledge, defeats the biggest threat left in the world to them in Genesis by himself.

    He's Cloud's mentor, Aeris' love interest, and shortly interacts with Tifa as well as extensively with Shinra and Sephiroth. He saves the world by himself and opens the door for Cloud, setting forth the events of FF7, at his expense in service of a flawed entity of deceit and greed in the Shinra Electric Power Company. His influence is monumental in the story's big picture.

    Cloud, the Most Powerful Force in FF7

    The title is cheesy but look at what he basically is in terms of the influences he has.

    He is aided many times by Aeris throughout the events and that cannot be discounted. He has the aid and power of the Cetra on his side, even in her death throughout AC.

    He is inspired by his mentor and friend Zack in CC and the emotional exchange of the Buster Sword at the end leads him to live a life as a 'living legacy' of Zack throughout FF7 and lets him believe that he's the hero he wanted to be. However flawed, that inspiration kept him going even when he couldn't remember much besides what his name was and that he was in SOLDIER.

    He possesses the power of Jenova and while the link gives Sephiroth the Black Materia, he still becomes ridiculously powerful and the roof to his physical potential is completely removed.

    He kills Sephiroth, the closest thing to the Apocalypse in the FF7 world, not once but three times, each more impressive than the last. In CC, he kills Sephiroth as a total mortal, the sickly frail joke of a soldier in all his 'glory' by throwing Sephiroth into the bottom of the reactor by taking the sword Sephiroth IMPALED him with, removing it and sending Sephiroth flying. He, along with his friends, defeat Sephiroth's enhanced avatar and defeats a surprised Sephiroth one-on-one in FF7. In AC, he pulls off a spectacle for the ages by fighting in a ridiculously superhuman duel consisting of flying, cutting through walls, and keeping up with said apocalyptic demigod the whole way through and by basically slicing him into nothing with the last attack.

    Cloud takes the power of all three 'forces' and defends the world with it. All while giving himself absolutely none of the credit and questioning his ability. It's poetic how opposite he is emotionally and in ability. He is so conflicted internally that it apparently makes him invincible to anything external. Nothing represents that more than the AC scene where Sephiroth stabs him in the heart and then Cloud lays the wood on him.

    Well there you go. Phew!

    That's my take on AC and the theory analysis

  6. #56
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    OMG. I have serious problems faulting your thinking. It actually bring my namesake back from the 1-D villain he was in the film, and returns him to the calibur of his FFVII villainy. You sure your not Nomura-sama in disguise?

    Just one minor thing about the JENOVA headshot. My take on that is that when the box was ruptured, most of the content was lost, leaving only a fraction of the material behind (hence Kadaj's scream in the church). The fact that only a little J-Material was used and Loz and Yazoo weren't involved in the reanimation, to me made Seph underpowerd.

    I feel that if none of the J-material had been lost and L&Y had been involved in the mix, then Seph would have been far more powerful.

  7. #57
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    Thanks

    No idea who that is but thanks! This game and the movie are both so awesome I haven't really had time to look around for a forum to talk about it but this looks like just the place.

    On Jenova, the reduced amount of Jenova may have weakened Sephiroth slightly but I think it has more to do with Cloud becoming a freakishly powerful being in AC than Sephiroth needing a few more Jenova cells. If the amount was reduced, it was still potent enough to turn Kadaj into Sephiroth. That's all Sephiroth probably wanted. As we saw in the battle between him and Cloud, he was plenty powerful enough, altering the weather, throwing multi story building debris around, etc. Cloud just ends up being too much for Sephiroth once again hehe. It does make it interesting though that the other two weren't involved though. I agree that it would be much different if all three were involved, but in the explosion on the highway they were incapacitated to a pretty serious degree. If the plan was to get that Jenova sample and get all three remnants enhanced, we might have seen an even more powerful Sephiroth. We will never know though hehe.

    Yeah, after I played Crisis Core it made Sephiroth so much more than a crazy bad ass with a really cool sword who wants to kill everybody. He had really close friends and everything he knew about them, himself, and his Shinra manufactured 'hero' identity was flawed and horrifying. It would take a lot to want to destroy the human race and seeing that play out makes him even more personable. It's like he is completely alone in the world and just wants it to suffer like he did. What does he owe them? He spent his whole life serving them and doing Shinra's dirty work, while being told he was special and brilliant not knowing the truth. It would be hard not to go down that path.

    One thing I was wondering though is whether or not it's possible for Jenova/Sephiroth to truly die. Sephiroth keeps finding ways to reanimate himself and Jenova's influence still exists within Cloud and probably several ex-SOLDIERs from Shinra among other former test subjects for Hojo. While Sephiroth and Jenova continue to exist within the Lifestream, they'll always have some presence in the world. We see a green, lush world with the Nanaki cutscene 500 years later, so I guess that assumes that at some point Jenova and Sephiroth are defeated for good but how? It looks like Cloud will keep fighting Sephiroth as many ways as he reanimates himself until there's nothing left to use. Maybe Sephiroth will wait until Cloud gets older and Cloud trains his son with Tifa (lol) to fight and he carries on the fight until that presence ends in the world.

    Makes me wonder..

  8. #58
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    Well i do agree on most of those points..

    What im saying is while the amount of cells used was enough to bring back Sephiroth, i think that if Kadaj had used the entire container's worth and Loz and Yazoo were there, then Seph would have been more powerful. IMHO

    and for a newbie you have made a very good impression

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    Zack's role in AC

    Thanks a lot I appreciate that

    Yeah, that kind of looked like I was too zealous to prove my point in hindsight >.> My bad

    Anyway,
    I do want to add after watching Advent Children recently that Aeris and Zack were the ones talking when Cloud 'dies' after the battle with Sephiroth about him 'not having a place here'. It's kind of ambiguous since the only time you hear Zack talk is when Cloud has that flashback of him at his grave. It could be that both Zack and Aeris made the effort to bring Cloud back to life from the Lifestream, not just Aeris. Another way you can tell it's Zack in the conversation is that the same voice actor who does his voice in Crisis Core did his voice in AC.

    Also, the line 'I said I'd live out both our lives' when Cloud reminisces at Zack's grave in AC is a LOT more meaningful after u play Crisis Core.

    To throw it in there,
    MAJOR CRISIS CORE SPOILER ALERT
    When Zack dies, he tells Cloud he's his living legacy with an emotional passing on of the Buster Sword, just like when his mentor Angeal passed it on to him.

    The significance to me from this is a fully-reformed Cloud remembering the memories that changed him so much after the experiments done on him by Hojo. Zack was his best friend before he died. You could just feel the remorse and burden he carries on his shoulders. This realization, which happens before he tells Aeris on the way to the Forgotten City that 'he wants to be forgiven', adds another dimension to what he wants to be forgiven for.

    When you consider that Zack was his best friend before he died and his memory was so screwed up look at what he did inadvertedly; he pretended to have his SOLDIER rank which Zack worked so hard for, carried himself like Zack, hit on his love interest (depending on how much love u gave Aeris in your run with FF7), and let her die while enabling the man who killed her and almost killed Zack to control his mind along the way. Add that to the guilt he feels for Aeris' death and the shame he probably feels for letting Sephiroth control him, having Geostigma, not being there for his family and friends and who wouldn't feel the way Cloud does? Even saving the world and finishing off Sephiroth again isn't enough for him to feel close to good about himself.

    I'm a fan of the TV show 24 as well and the only character I've seen carry as much pain and burden as Cloud in the events of CC/FF7/AC is the main 24 protagonist Jack Bauer, although Bauer carries much more than Cloud and in a present day, more relatable sense.

    Still, when you add the Sephiroth cell 'removal of his ceiling' for his physical and mental potential, Mako energy exposure, and all this pain/motivation that drives him, you can see why something as minor like a 5 or 6 foot sword going through him, a gigantic Bahamut monster, or the bringer of the Apocalypse wouldn't stop him. The pain he deals with inside makes anything external seem welcome by comparison. I always thought that the guilt over Aeris' death was the prevailing source, but there's so much more to it.

    The way that Zack element weaves into the story turns a kind of goofy redeeming of a pretty messed up but cool-looking guy who kicks a lot of ass into a truly deep and tragic in hindsight renewal of a tortured (in every sense of the word) being who saves the world again and at the end of the story finally feels like it's an accomplishment-because he finally realizes that it's appreciated by those he loves.

    It's like Jack Bauer saving the world but without his wife dying or love interest going insane. It's like him going home to the love of his life and everything finally being alright after doing the right thing.

    You can even look at FF7 when he gets out of the Lifestream in Mideel to see how he carries the burden. He doesn't give himself any pat on the back at all for being the only man in the world that was able to kill Sephiroth. He just talks about how messed up he is.

    It's too bad he wasn't ever joking.

  10. #60
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    First up, Aerith!!! Alright, I think she helps the AVALANCHE group (Tifa, Cloud, Cid, etc) because she can do those magical things, right? And I think she could do that because she's powerful, and created the White Materia. Alright, she helps Cloud because she wants him to forgive himself..

    Then..What was the next one again? The wolf?

    Uhh, the wolf, I am not sure what role it plays there in Advent Children. But I do think it's role is to appear where Aerith appeared? Heehee. Just a guess.

    Jenova's cells. Hmm, yes, the green cells did squirt out. But I think Kadaj cried because what he was looking forward to see was the head, or something like that. I think he didn't expect to see the cells, but he was expecting the body parts, of blah. I don't really know.. :[

    Existance of Loz, Kadaj, and Yazoo, is a mystery for me, too. But hey, the three of them are hott. Heehee.


    Orphans.. The orphans are there to show that kids are usually the ones affected by Geostigma. And most of them knows Aerith, too. "Onee-chan told us that you were here.."

    I hope that helps, but if it didn't, forgive me!!!!!!! I just wanted to help!!!

  11. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by puddles123 View Post

    - When Cloud plunges into Bahamutís plasma ball she helps him through.
    - When Kadaj is about to blast Cloud to smithereens in the church Aeris summons her raincloud of anti-Jenova cells and scares him off. This also heals Cloud of the Geostigma.
    - When Cloud begins his battle with Sephiroth, something Marlene says as the storm gathers brings up flashes of Aeris and I believe Aeris tries to help Cloud out in some way in that battle.
    - Aeris helps guide Kadaj into the Lifestream by posing as his ďmotherĒ (Jenova) and then she proceeds to heal a whole lot of people with her anti-Jenova rain.
    - When Cloud is killed or really messed up by Yazoo and Lozís sacrificial explosion, Aeris resurrects him through the children.
    Wow, she sure does a lot for a dead chick...

  12. #62
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    My Theories to your questions:

    spirit of the FF7 world: In the first part of the movie, a girl said it is a part of lifestream.

    Aeris: When Aeris died, she became one with lifestream. But she is an ancient, and she had so many things to worry about down there, so she came back. But she had to have a time to get used to it. She practically is the planet and the lifestream at this point. That is why she does not, and do not need, a physical body; she already have one that's much better. Sephiroth NEEDS physical body to make an impact on the planet since he is living on unnaturally.
    As to healing, it is both Aeris and Planet healing the wound, since they are one.
    Zack is with Aeris because he was worried about Cloud.

    Wolf: His inner insecurity. He is near the sword because that's where his guilt lies. He is looking at cellphone because it WAS his fear of interacting with others. He went away at the end because he understood and accepted others.

    Three antagonists: They said that they were born from Jenova themselves in the movie. Therefore, it is not technically wrong to say that they are part of Sephiroth. Anyways, I think kadaje was shocked to see inside of the box because he saw the head was shot.
    Also, these three said "Mother" when they died because they finally met their true mother. If you watch the Japanese version, you'll understand this, but one can easily assume that they have lost their "mother" and just was looking to be loved. That's why they wanted Jenova's head...they must have been infected with the cells more than others. And those cells cut the connection to the lifestream, and made them into Jenova's hands.
    Aeris is playfully mad at the end because Three and Cloud met Aeris, the lifestream (the true mother) embodied, called her as mother.

    Children: They are most close to lifestream and therefore more prone to jenova invading their body. And they are the future. SO, they are important. Also, three wanted them so that their jenova cells can be used to make them into an army to fight against the lifestream.

  13. #63
    Sefiros sefiroslionheart's Avatar
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    I think the wolf represents angeals spirit.
    Dreams, pride and honor. it makes a little more sense.

    As for original post, i know it was a while ago, but before people read it, Aeriths healing rain is supposed to heal the STIGMA, not jenova cells as stated in first post. but i cant blame original post coz it was a long time ago.
    I STILL have to get myself the blu ray version, seriously, i know cloud and sephiroth fight with his one wing, and i wanna see it. As of yet, no youtube vids on that, i wonder why.....
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  14. #64
    Where there is light, there is darkness. Ramirez Dranzera's Avatar
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    I believe that Kadaj cried out in pain when he saw the contents of that box, because he was surprised to see just the head of his "mother" there.
    Where there is light, there is darkness, sword of the dark moon. Ramirez from SOAL

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  15. #65
    Heal the body, heal the heart... Enkidoh's Avatar
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    Okay....

    I rarely go into rants, but hearing this same tired argument raised repeatedly here and elsewhere despite repeatedly proven to the contrary I finally couldn't take it anymore and felt compelled to speak up about this.

    The wolf.. IS NOT Aeris! It's NOT Zack!! It's NOT Angeal! It's NO ONE!!!

    It's a visual metaphor symbolizing the guilt Cloud carries over Aeris's death. Nothing more!

    In case you STILL don't agree, refer to the tagline of this very Forum.

    /end rant
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  16. #66
    professional sun praiser ROKUSHO's Avatar
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    i thought it was just a wolf.
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  17. #67
    Sefiros sefiroslionheart's Avatar
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    Enkidoh, i said it represents the dreams, pride and honor. I DID NOT SAY IT WAS ANGEAL. *sighs*
    and if the wolf is the guilt, why is it still their long after he accepts that its happened when he stops baring the burden.

  18. #68
    Heal the body, heal the heart... Enkidoh's Avatar
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    Cloud feels guilty over Aeris's death because he nearly killed her twice (through Sephiroth's manipulations of the Jenova cells inside him and his own fractured personality), firstly at the Temple of the Ancients after he gave the Black Materia to Sephiroth, and then on the altar at the Forgotten Capital. Because in the later instance Cloud managed to stop himself in the nick of time, is why Sephiroth took over and finished the deed.

    Hence, Cloud feels guilty that he didn't do enough to protect her, even though Aeris herself tells him in his dreams that she doesn't blame him for it. And this guilt is given a visual symbol in the form of the wolf - which doesn't disappear until the very end when he finally lets go of this guilt and accepts the past, and finally stops turning his back on his friends and realizes that 'he's not alone'. This is explained on the bonus 'making of' film that came with the DVD release.

    I'm sorry if I sounded a little harsh in my previous post, it's just repeating this argument endlessly is becoming irrelevant.

  19. #69
    Sefiros sefiroslionheart's Avatar
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    Sephiroth wasnt their, it was either jenova (which seems most likely) Or one of the reminants of sephiroth.

    I really think that SE have become extremely poor at getting their point across without directly saying so, and whats worse is when they do explain it, you think huh, wtf that doesnt make sense at all. like with what u just said, the wolf shouldnt have appeared when cloud got killed (yet again) and then returned in aeriths church.
    Whatever it is pointless, so many interpretations and each one better than "guilt". Honestly if it was guilt, itd be far better if cloud was stabbed in the side with the wolf, then re-acted to that.

  20. #70
    The darkness writhes. execrable gumwrapper's Avatar
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    The fuck? That would just cause more confusion.

    And I remember reading that Nomura added the wolf because it looked cool all CGI'd out. Which wouldn't surprise me since the entire movie was added as a "hey, that looks cool" reason.
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  21. #71
    Sefiros sefiroslionheart's Avatar
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    Agreed on that one, it was a good few millions worth of crap, but hey, it was a better movie than "spirits within"

  22. #72
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    Just my thoughts:
    1. She's a spirit, as is Zack. Helping Cloud from beyond the grave. I believe the rain is Aerith's final Limit Break from the game. As to why she didn't do this nifty tricks, she was busy guiding souls to the lifestream when she got made "Maiden of the Lifestream" or something like that. It's a book I think, though I'm unsure if it's still canon. She helped Tifa and Cloud out of the lifestream though, despite it not being mentioned in game.

    2. I dunno. Lonliness, guilt etc

    3. I read somewhere that they are all a Remnants of sephiroth
    Loz = Sephiroth's Strength
    Yazoo = Sephiroth's Cool Demeanor
    Kadaj = Sephiroth's Hatred and Rage
    Sephiroth made them somehow in one of the On the Way to a Smile novels.

    4. To become one with the planet and become a god. I'm pretty sure he'd stopped caring about Jenova by the end of the game and just used it as a pawn. I can't recall exactly.

    5. I don't think the gunk was all there was. I'm pretty sure the head was definately there. I just think seeing a head in a box messed with him a bit. I mean if your saw your mothers head in a box, wouldnt you freak out? I know it's not the same, but still...

  23. #73
    jen' jari iv tave sith Darth Revan's Avatar
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    .... This is so old... and so very, very sad...

    Over analyzing a movie like this... Makes me wonder what the future holds...

    It's been repeatedly discussed numerous times in numerous threads...

    Let it go.


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  24. #74
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    @Xiahou Dun -

    This thread may be very old, but wouldn't you rather he air his opinions here instead of making a new thread about it? It seems a little silly for you to tell him that it isn't worth bringing up when the very thread he is posting in is precisely about what he is talking about. If he made a new thread about it, then I would be more behind you.

    As for his opinions on the deeper themes behind the movie, I can't really answer them, as I pretty much exhausted all my energy and ideas on the movie with my original post within this thread four years ago. Also, what is wrong with overanalyzing a movie like this? While most people regard the movie as crap, it certainly did lay ground for new questions to arise, whether you believe those questions to be worth your time or not. Please don't berate this new guy simply because you find the subject material to be dull and old. To people who have just found this forum, it is not.
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  25. #75
    jen' jari iv tave sith Darth Revan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by puddles123 View Post
    @Xiahou Dun -

    This thread may be very old, but wouldn't you rather he air his opinions here instead of making a new thread about it? It seems a little silly for you to tell him that it isn't worth bringing up when the very thread he is posting in is precisely about what he is talking about. If he made a new thread about it, then I would be more behind you.
    FFVII AC has been discussed to death numerous times in this thread section already. It's done with. Why keep going on and on and on about something which is over. Also, my post was not aimed at any one in particular Puddles123, it was a general target to the thread in general.

    As for his opinions on the deeper themes behind the movie, I can't really answer them, as I pretty much exhausted all my energy and ideas on the movie with my original post within this thread four years ago. Also, what is wrong with overanalyzing a movie like this? While most people regard the movie as crap, it certainly did lay ground for new questions to arise, whether you believe those questions to be worth your time or not. Please don't berate this new guy simply because you find the subject material to be dull and old. To people who have just found this forum, it is not.
    Have I said anywhere that the movie is crap? FFVII AC is a good movie, though there are some things in it which imo, are more fantastical than what FF should be. A: The final fight against Bahamut. B: Cloud and Sephiroth flying around. I could go into more detail, but can't be bothered tbh.

    Also, the MAIN THING I am sick to death of hearing...

    Originally posted by Sefiroslionheart

    I think the wolf represents angeals spirit. Dreams, pride and honor. it makes a little more sense.
    The wolf has already been discussed numerous times before in this forum sub section.

    Originally posted by Hynad in the closed thread 'Is Aerith The Wolf?'

    Here is a a part of the Reunion Files in question. A question was asked about the wolf to the Directors of the film and here is the official answer:

    Quote:
    *Q: What does the wolf that appears at Zack's place of death, Aerith's church,
    and the City of the Ancients symbolize?

    *A: It's a symbol of Cloud's guilt and regret. As a result of being unable to
    do anything to save Aerith and Zack, he blamed himself for their deaths. The
    symbolism of the wolf also works in regard to the expression "lone wolf," as
    Cloud has chosen to live away from others while he awaits death from
    Geostigma. Continuing this line of symbolism, Cloud wears symbols of a wolf's
    head and his motorcycle is named "Fenrir," the name bore by Loki's wolf child
    in Norse Mythology.
    I think that answers that whole 'Who is the wolf?' question idiots have been asking, yet they don't want to acknowledge the truth.

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