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Thread: Enormous FF7 AC Theory Analysis (Major Spoilers)

  1. #26
    FIRESTORM THUNDERHAWK pennybags's Avatar
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    If Aries controls the lifestream because shes a cetra than what about all the other cetras that died at the hand of JENOVA and they could control the lifestream she would have minute control of the life stream and all those who say that there are no smoke plumes in the first scene look at the bottom left of the screen when red xiii has reached the top of the hill
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  2. #27
    FIRESTORM THUNDERHAWK pennybags's Avatar
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    when aries pulls cloud through bahumats blast its his will power to defeat him and not that she's helping him . look at one of the last scenes in the game u see his mind playing tricks on him and thinking that its aries' when it tifas which shows he wants to see her more than anybody even Zack

  3. #28
    Onion Kid Eternal_Martyr's Avatar
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    Before I state my own theories, please bare in mind I only skimmed the initial post (and reading the bold print), so I apologize in advance if I step over the OP's words and personal theories, but while it's fresh in my mind I'd like to go ahead and give my own beliefs.

    1. Aeris’ role in the movie-
    It is of my own belief that she and Zack are both within the lifestream throughout the course of the movie. I think the help Aeris lends to Cloud isn't so much physical as emotional. What I've read makes it seem like she's literally empowering him, and in my opinion, she is, but in a different way. "We are stronger because of the memories we've shared with others." I think throughout the movie, Cloud unconsciously called out to her, remembering the times they shared before her untimely death, and that newfound strength is what allowed the seemingly impossible to happen. I remember reading something along the lines of, "True strength stems from those we long to protect." Those we long to protect of course, being loved ones, and so Cloud takes that a step further by emotionally clicking with Aeris in the lifestream.

    2. The wolf’s appearances –
    Wolves and dogs are similar, no? Dog = man's best friend, so Wolf = man's best friend. Best friend being someone you hold dear, a loved one. This stems back to that emotional link, but in a more physical form. I think it's just a physical metaphor for that concept.

    3. Kadaj, Loz, and Yazoo’s Origin –
    Weren't Jenova cells inserted into many bodies? Couldn't they be later products of this than Cloud and Sephirtoh? My FFVII knowledge is a bit rusty, but wouldn't that make sense? The Jenova cells long to revive her, so it's natural they want to do so. As for Sephiroth's reappearance, your guess is as good as mine, but I think between their similar interests and the influx of Jenova cells within their body, along with the Lifestream's repetitive flow and Sephiroth's undying devotion to his cause, that he was able to reform in the physical world again.

    4. Sephiroth’s Goal –
    Technically, he IS a son of Jenova. Didn't Hojo inject Jenova cells into his baby before it was born? That makes Jenova his mother aswell. I think his motive remains the same: awaken Jenova and destroy the planet. He says he wants to wipe mankind out, and use the planet as a ship to traverse the galaxy, and so on. Didn't he say something similar in the original?

    5. Jenova’s Headshot –
    My understanding is the head may be gone, but that doesn't mean all the cells were gone aswell. Hell, maybe the head was never IN that box to begin with; I don't recall seeing it, but that doesn't mean it wasn't. Regardless, the cells looked to be in a gooey like substance, and apparently, not all was gone. I think Kadaj's initial reaction was the loss of the head, not the cells. He later tried fusing with the cells in a last ditch effort as he plummeted to his death.

    6. The Orphans’ Purpose –
    My take is the Geostigma stems from the Jenova cells, which have recycled into these orphens. The planet, being nearly wiped out by sources stemming from Jenova, attempts to put a stop to it with this virus. Kadaj needs a good source of the cells to reawaken Mother (complete inference there, as I don't know the specifics on this reawakening), and chooses to take advantage of the bodies they're in. I think this doubles as the general love for children is universal, and plays, in my mind, a part in Cloud's character development throughout the movie. Marlene just happens to be free of the virus, but being a kind spirit, doesn't shun those with it.

    "It is more difficult, and it calls for higher energies of soul, to live a martyr than to die one."

  4. #29
    Onion Kid wow-j's Avatar
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    yup!

    I have to say that i agree with you when you say that leaving some misterioues things make the movie more interesting and not incomplete, and about the other things... well Aerith is a Cetra so maybe she can do things that we don't know and Kadaj Loz and Yazoo have Jenova cells like Sephiroth and maybe the spirit that is now in the Streamlife has the power to show himself through them. !!!

  5. #30
    The Ilien ili's Avatar
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    I've always believed that the wolf represented Zack but now I'm not so sure. It really doesn't make sense to have a wolf there and then Zack shows up at the end in a humanoid form. I'd still like to think though that Zack was there watching over his friend if not as obviously as Aerith was.

    This is going to sound bad but I read a fanfiction and a really interesting point came up. There seems no real rhyme or reason behind Cloud having stuck the Buster Sword where he did, overlooking Midgar. But when you think back on the game... when Zack was killed they were overlooking Midgar. Maybe that is the place that Zack fell and Cloud put the Buster Sword there as a tomb stone. So if the wolf was sniffing around there it could very well have been somehow related at the very least to a memory of Zack. I don't have an explination for the scene with the phone. It does seem feasable though that the wolf could mean guilt and loneliness. Maybe it is all these things in one.

    Lets not forget that the wolf seems to be Clouds symbol in general. What with his bike being called Fenrir and him having all these wolf pendants and buckles.

    Ok... I just looked at Wikipedia and it has this to say It was stated in the Advent Children Reunion Files production book that the wolf, known as the "Cloudy Wolf," represents the deepest part in Cloud's psyche, and appears in response to some burden he is carrying, as well represent him being a "lone wolf" since he seemingly severed himself from his friends and family.

  6. #31
    Onion Kid
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    Aeris help cloud because she's an ancient, and thats guys can do it everithing even if they are in the lifestream. I don't know if this can help you, but, good luck

  7. #32
    Yakuza Wannabe noblearrogant's Avatar
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    I always tought Jenova communicated with Kadaj on that scene at the church.He screamed cause Jenova 'told' him he wasn't the 'chosen' one but Sephiroth
    Meh i don't know...

  8. #33
    Where there is light, there is darkness. Ramirez Dranzera's Avatar
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    [I think that Kadaj shouted after he saw the head of Jenova cause he was sad that that's all that's left of her.

  9. #34
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    Exclamation

    Ok, my apologies, I haven't read through the entire of this thread, I simply don't have time, so some of this may be repeating what others have said.

    I play FF7 twice annually, at least; I'm sad and I love the game that much. The film, whilst not astounding, is still a damn good film and I've watched it many times in Japanese (subtitled) and English.
    Here are my thoughts:

    AERIS:
    As someone rightly said, the rainstorm is essentially her using Grand Gospel; hence it cures cloud of the Geostigma and the pool created by it in the church is later used to heal the near-dead Cloud and the children.
    She's not a spirit like Sephiroth is in the game. Remember, the first 'Sephiroth' in the game (that the characters follow and who appears before the Jenova BIRTH battle on the ship) is just a clone. One of the more successful of the many clones that take part in the Reunion (right before Jenova DEATH).
    Also, to answer your question of is the rain-cloud Aeris or the lifestream; it's both. During the game, numerous references are made to "Returning to the Lifestream". As such, Aeris is part of the lifestream and we can assume as she is Cetra (an Ancient) she probably has some kind of power over the lifestream. The visions of her prove that her spirit lives on, so control of the LS would be possible.

    THE WOLF:
    I agree with the guilt theory and I did from the first moment it was theorized. Outside Midgar, he does have guilt. In the game, the spot where Cloud has stuck his Buster Sword, is the point where Zac was shot dead. As Cloud lived, he feels the guilt that Zac rescued him, then died so close to safety.
    When they have passed out in the Church, it is his guilt that he loved Aeris and that he now loves Tifa (Tifa confirms this theory when the two of them talk in their room, and she asks if he wants her or a memory).
    Where the wolf is looking into the water; that is the pool where Cloud lays Aeris to rest during the game, thus a blatant link to his guilt.
    And the last appearance is when Cloud is finally freed from his guilt, hence the wolf disappearing.

    KADAJ AND CO.
    They are remnants of Sephiroth. It says this with lines like "Poor little remnant" etc... Sephiroth, as seen in the final battles (which I will explain later) is far more than human. When he dies, his spirit lingers and creates three 'shades', these are Kadaj, Loz and Yazoo.
    As for the battle, it's of no significance that everyone fights Bizarro, but then only 3 fight Safer Sephiroth, then Cloud alone fights the real Sephiroth. They all fight Bizzarro 'cos they're all there, only 3 fight Safer, as the boss needed to be harder and notice how only Cloud can hurt the core in the Bizarro battle at first, so only Clouds party fights Safer.
    The 'Final Sephiroth' battle is Cloud fighting the memory of Sephiroth. It takes place inside his mind. The memory of Sephiroth has haunted Cloud for years, and this is him finally slaying it.
    Sephiroth may be dead, but much like Aeris, he's anything BUT gone, and he's not just the son of Hojo and Lucretia... But I'll come to that later.

    SEPHIROTHS GOAL:
    Has always been to become a God and follow his Mothers footsteps. In the game, he wishes to become a God, like his mother, and to destroy the world, as was Jenova's first intention. Remember, that Sephiroth may be born of Lucretia, but he's genetically Jenova's son... Hojo, having conceived a child with Lucretia, infused the unborn embryo with Jenova cells. Thus, Lucretia gives birth to a child who is as much Jenova's son, as he is hers and Hojos. Can you imagine how pissed Vincent must feel?

    JENOVASS HEADSHOT:
    Indeed, Rufus lands a shot into the box in an attempt to drain it, but he hits it too high. When Kadaj opens it in the Church, he's not crying in pain at that he failed, but both in joy that he and his mother are reunited (throughout the film we see that the remnants are VERY emotional) but also at the idea that he is unwanted and that he will be 'sacrificed' to recreate Sephiroth. More on this with the orphans.
    Until the last moment, Kadaj believes he can recreate Sephiroth without sacrificing the remnants, hence his running. Perhaps it was this way all along, or perhaps Rufus' shot drained enough fluid, but he finally absorbs the head to become Sephiroth; though not a full powered Sephiroth (hence Loz and Yazoo aren't also combined).

    THE ORPHANS PURPOSE:
    ...Is much the same as that of the Sephiroth clones in the game. It states this when Kadaj talks to Rufus near the beginning, they talk of the Reunion. In the game (and I think in the movie) it states that whenever Jenova is separated, the cells will always try and reunite, thus reforming Jenova. When Jenova and Sephiroth are destroyed, think about where they are... In the Lifestream...
    Their destroyed cells fall into the lifestream and so infect many of the people whom the lifestream touches; the orphans and Cloud amongst theorised others. Kadaj takes the Orphans where he uses the Black Water (I take that name from the OST track that plays at that point), created using the Control materia, to control the kids. They then proceed to Edge, where he summons Bahamut to destroy the Midgar monument (which he believes contains Jenovas Head) and uses the kids as a way of keeping the public from interfering. We can be certain that the Orphans are not involved in the summoning. Throughout the FF7 universe, summons are all called the same way; with Materia. We see Kadaj use the Bahamut Sin materia to summon it; there is no involvement from the Orphans.
    Due to Tifa's intervention etc, Denzel awakens from the control faster than the others, who awaken simple as the Black Water's power fades.

    I hope that clears some stuff up.
    I've made it a duty to learn as much as I can about this game, though I can't guarantee I haven't missed something somewhere, lol.
    (Please don't think me arrogant, I don't believe I know it all, but I've studied it hard).

    Also, remember it's just a game and a film. It's created by humans and plot holes/inconsistencies etc... are all possible. All of this is only educated theorising based upon information given in the game. The only person who can tell you for certain exactly what is meant is Hironobu Sakaguchi and his team.

    Thanks

    Yllek


    P.S. I am aware that the Japanese and AC official name is Aerith, but here's a little something for all you jerks who made Square use the 'official Japanese name' (tw*ts):
    Aeris, as a girls name, sounds pretty and mysterious.
    Aerith sounds like a retarded lisp.
    If in the Japanese version Sephiroth had been called Loser Von Suksminob would you have wanted it changed?
    Case closed.

  10. #35
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    I'd also like to point out the reason for the pink ribbons.
    It's got nothing to do with Geostigma... look who wears them; the original FF7 characters.
    Notice the colour, pink.

    They wear those ribbons in memory of Aeris.

  11. #36
    ZOMBIE VOODOO!!! Ghost_of_Freedom's Avatar
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    I will give my opinion on some of these matters, as I do not have the patience to comment on every one.

    Kadaj and his gang are pieces of sephiroth, each representing a part of him. When Sephiroth was killed he returned to the lifestream, where he began to be broken down by it, but his strong will allowed him to break out when the lifestream had only managed to breakl him down into three pieces. These pieces manifested in Kadaj and his gang.

    As for Kadaj running away. I believe he was strugglung with his mother possibly favouring Sephiroth over him and did not want to find out what would happen if he merged with her cells, and only did so when he felt he had no choice.

    Thats all for now.

    ... I beileve that Final Fantasy leaves so much unexplained so as to be open to interpretaion. Sort of like when a band doesnt want to explain all of its songs so that the listiner can interpret it how they see fit, and according to thier experiances in life.
    Thanks to UltimateFFFan.



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  12. #37
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    Precisely!

    I just finished my second run of FF7 this year, and watched the film again last night, and something became painfully obvious to me...

    Kadaj does not use Materia to control the children. They believe that Kadaj and his gang can heal them of Geostigma (hence they followed them to the Forgotten City) and trust that drinking the water will cure them.
    When Kadaj enters the water, and subsequently, the orphans drink of it; the Reunion Instinct is awakened within them and thus they follow Kadaj to where the Reunion will take place...
    Theory.

    Also, Rufus' headshot... It doesn't exist. He's shooting at Kadaj as he falls, he misses and coincidentally hits the box; nothing more.

    I'll continue watching it, continue questioning.

  13. #38
    Registered User KestralSky's Avatar
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    I heard somewhere that one of those 'orphans' was tifas and clouds child.

    I think thats a little..... far off.

    I think Sephiroth was able to come back so strongly in physical form because of his pure hatred for all. Aeris never wanted to come back, she was just eager to give all the help she can, and prehaps she felt physical appearence was not needed, just the odd shower.

    And about the reason why she didnt help Cloud in the game.. I believe its recon square only decided to include her when making the film. In the game, we dont hear from her at all after she dies (except the odd flckery image). Aeris has such a huge fan base, prehaps they thought giving aeris quite a big part in the film would make us all happy. I must admit, it was nice to hear aeris's theme in the film, sadly it made me smile. So for me it worked!

    lots of prehaps's and maybe's. but thats the best bit right?
    I have an unnecessary hatred for Cait Sith...

    Go figure...

  14. #39
    Instrument Of The Covenant Unyeilding Heriophant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarosik View Post
    Other than the points already mentioned, the only thing I can contribute as speculation is that the Wolf looks strikingly similar to those that you can battle outside of Nibelheim. So what's the link you ask? Well none, other than that Cloud beleived he was from Nibelheim, and he displayed a lot of guilt there too when it was burned down by Sepiroth. I seem to recall him 'losing' his own mother in that part of the story line (It's been that long since I played it)

    Just had to solve this little one for you. Cloud IS from Nibelheim. That part of his memory is not fake in any way, shape or form. He DID grow up with Tifa, and he DID lose his actual mother when Sephiroth burned Nibelheim to the ground. It's the being in SOLDIER that was fake. Cloud was nothing more than a lowly grunt in Shinra.

  15. #40
    The Key of Destiny Roxas20's Avatar
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    Yeah, cuz he MADE UP all of HIS stories from the stories that Zack told him. So, when Zack was shot and killed by Shinra soldiers, he just put himself in Zack's place, making it his story. But, later the truth about Cloud was revealed abpit how he defeated Sephiroth at the Mako Reactor, after Sephiroth wounded Zack and Tifa. And also, how he wasn't first class, but a grunt like Heriophant said. That's about that.

  16. #41
    get behind the wheel, stay in front of the storm 9innail's Avatar
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    Is the raincloud Aeris or the planet healing a wound?:
    has everyone forgotten about Holy? in the game bugenhaggen says that holy's power will be awoken when it turns a pale green color, when aerith dies it falls to the bottom of the water in the forgotten city, and turns pale green. when meteor finally arrives the lifestream prevents full destruction, not holy. now (in the movie) jenova cells are causing this geostigma, which if brought to full potential, will not only threaten the existence of mankind, but bring about the events that lead to the revival of a being threatening the earth itself. holy was said to be used only once. since it obviously wasnt used in the game, i believe the power of holy was the "healing rain" from the movie. holy (and aerith) saved its power for when it was truly needed, for the real threat that could not have otherwise been avoided.

    Zack did not die in Midgar: no, he died right there where the sword is...

    Cloud does not fail anybody in Midgar: umm...can anybody say sector 7?

    Does my theory of Kadaj’s gang being creations of Jenova within the Lifestream make sense?:absolutely. spot on! you really must have amazing powers of observation for that one

  17. #42
    The end all know all of FF7 Ek0mst0p1's Avatar
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    Red face

    Ok as far as the wolf guilt thing: The wolf by midgar is in the spot that Zack died. If you watch the scene in the last disk of final fantasy 7 you will se that zack and cloud were captured after there ass whipping by seph.

    Next the one in the church and by the ancient capitol is obvious. Cloud met Aerith in the chuch and she died in the ancient capitol. k

    Kadaj Yazoo and Loz are incarnations of Seph's will and are made of pure negative mako (Mako tainted by jenova cells but does not contain jenova cells) that is why once kadaj gets some jenova cells he turns into seph.

    Zack is clouds best friend k we all know that i hope. Zack died trying to save cloud on that bluff (you know what a bluff is right) just outside of Midgar.

  18. #43
    The end all know all of FF7 Ek0mst0p1's Avatar
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    The rain is Aerith's Great Gospel Limit Break k. Anyone ever seen that one it Heals all abnormal status effect cures fully and makes you temporary invinceable (Peerless status=temp invivinceability) and holy is Blue it is the Big Blue blob thing that starts fighting meteor then the green lines of life stream come up and push meteor back so Holy can fight it properly.

  19. #44
    The end all know all of FF7 Ek0mst0p1's Avatar
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    No more consecutive post i promis. The battle with seph and cloud one on one is a real fight. Therfore not a memory and not killing the idea of seph. Seph is there and the fight is taking place in the life stream. He is fighting the real seph not a figiment of his imagination. If you read the omega guid it states:
    After fighting Bizarro Sephiroth and Safer Sephiroth, Cloud has a final 1-on-1
    battle with Sephiroth in the spiritual realm. Although the ego of this
    Sephiroth Clone was stricken with an inferiority complex in the past, Cloud
    fights on and achieves victory in the end.
    Serial killers make the best friends. Will you be my friend

  20. #45
    The Puppeteer TM's Avatar
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    Why have you triple posted? there is an edit button, use it!


    Sig too big

  21. #46
    The end all know all of FF7 Ek0mst0p1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Master View Post
    Why have you triple posted? there is an edit button, use it!
    Yeah but i keep getting a page cannot be displayed. I think it is because of my works firewall but anyway sorry.

    BTW you wasted your time by telling me this does it make you feel special. Cool flame me for being at work and getting blocked by a firewall now i am home and can edit ok.

  22. #47
    The Puppeteer TM's Avatar
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    Wow your a cunt, I simply said there is an edit button and that you should use it instead of posting more than twice, but no instead of just explaining why you can't edit it, you have to act like a cunt.

  23. #48
    The end all know all of FF7 Ek0mst0p1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Master View Post
    Wow your a cunt, I simply said there is an edit button and that you should use it instead of posting more than twice, but no instead of just explaining why you can't edit it, you have to act like a cunt.
    No you see there is a way of saying nice things and there is a way of being an ass. there is an edit button use it!. Is the ass way of saying it. See you could of just said "hey man why did you triple post there is an edit button at the bottom for that. See how much more polite that sounds.
    Cant Uderstand Normal Thinking= CUNT kinda cute huh.

  24. #49
    The Puppeteer TM's Avatar
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    I could of said "Your a cunt for triple posting" but know I said "there is a edit button, use it" you obviously deserved the first one.

  25. #50
    The end all know all of FF7 Ek0mst0p1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Master View Post
    I could of said "Your a cunt for triple posting" but know I said "there is a edit button, use it" you obviously deserved the first one.
    K your right i read my post i never said i was sorry for the consecutive post or anything. But look this is stupid i apologize for not using the edit and MORE IMPORTANTLY I AM SORRY I RESPONDED VERY RUDE. I could have worded that better or not said anything i am willing to just say fuck it and sorry. Alright now with that said (i'm not being a smart ass) How do people just come up with theorys with no facts if you look at shit with an ounce of logic you can see alot of theorys are crap. I am not saying any of yours are crap just a general thing i noticed at gameFaqs

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