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Thread: Banned

  1. #1

    Banned

    So I was temporarily banned for requesting a soundtrack. The soundtrack was from a video game based on a popular TV franchise, of which there are a number of threads offering download links for OTHER soundtracks from this same franchise. Just not the specific one I was looking for. My question is why was I banned for just REQUESTING a soundtrack from this franchise when there are multiple threads offering other soundtracks from this same franchise? If it's due to copyright concerns, surely those other threads should be deleted.

  2. #2
    Survived the 『Hunt』, but not the Lady. Leon Scott Kennedy's Avatar
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    Oh, for fuck's sake, I don't believe I still get to see the same crap: "there are threads offering the same thing, so why was my thread+I the only ones to get the short end of the stick?".

    Here's the reply you want:

    Reason #1 (and the most important) - You created your request thread long after the ban on 20th Century Fox has been enacted, you should have known it was forbidden material and refrained from requesting, even. You forgot to check whether it was okay, or not? Your problem.

    Reason #2 - Jessie and I are pretty much the only two remaining/active staff members with moderation privileges over the Download Links and Requests subforums, we delete those threads and posts as soon we see them. Now, given the huge amount of activity around here… Some stuff may very well slip our notice, that's where you users may come in and provide a helping hand by reporting what shouldn't be here (~ anymore). Crying "But there's other stuff which should be deleted!" does nothing, other than making you look like a brat.
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  3. #3
    Onion Kid
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leon Scott Kennedy View Post
    Oh, for fuck's sake, I don't believe I still get to see the same crap: "there are threads offering the same thing, so why was my thread+I the only ones to get the short end of the stick?".

    Here's the reply you want:

    Reason #1 (and the most important) - You created your request thread long after the ban on 20th Century Fox has been enacted, you should have known it was forbidden material and refrained from requesting, even. You forgot to check whether it was okay, or not? Your problem.

    Reason #2 - Jessie and I are pretty much the only two remaining/active staff members with moderation privileges over the Download Links and Requests subforums, we delete those threads and posts as soon we see them. Now, given the huge amount of activity around here… Some stuff may very well slip our notice, that's where you users may come in and provide a helping hand by reporting what shouldn't be here (~ anymore). Crying "But there's other stuff which should be deleted!" does nothing, other than making you look like a brat.



    Leon given the circumstances, I have to question you, but I know you'll ignore me like the other times

    and who did you post before Sarah forbid 20th Century Fox material?

    the two are the only remaining employees, plus this list is big

    http://forums.ffshrine.org/showgroups.php

    why did the others leave?


    there are certain users, reporting post trying to be a moderator, to say that is aware of everything, because it seems that has open vacancy

    when you mention "I don't believe I still get to see the same crap" but this is the impression that passes

  4. #4
    When was it banned? And how is the average user supposed to keep track of these things? And furthermore why is requesting material enough to warrant a banning? No one is under any obligation to even respond to a request, let alone provide the soundtrack requested. I only asked because there is literally nowhere on the internet I can find what I was looking for besides youtube, which is fine as long as I have an internet connection. But fine, whatever. God forbid you should have to do any actual work as a moderator when banning people for not knowing the rules is apparently much easier.

  5. #5
    Survived the 『Hunt』, but not the Lady. Leon Scott Kennedy's Avatar
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    20th Century Fox was banned before July 2017 and the Shrine has had a sticky thread about forbidden material, which has always been at the top of Film, TV and Classical Music Download Links… Or to be more precise, ever since it was created. As users, it is your responsibility to keep your "knowledge" up-to-date on that stuff. The staff team updates the thread with a reply whenever something gets added to the forbidden material list, but again, you should take care to read that thread every once in a while.

    Don't whine too much, dalty, you've merely got a temporary ban, emphasis on temporary.

    EDIT:

    Forgot to address something you asked: "why is requesting material enough to warrant a ban?" Simple, because we'd rather not have any more cases where labels and/or copyright holders come knocking at our door a second time and decide to get even more serious with their threats. Varèse Sarabande did that and it wasn't pretty.
    Last edited by Leon Scott Kennedy; 10-07-2019 at 02:20 PM.

  6. #6
    It just seems that like Mizunrana pointed out, if a lot of people are asking the same questions, you are not communicating the rules very effectively, and therefore a zero-tolerance banning policy seems overly harsh. It seems like maybe you could at least contact the person, give them the opportunity to edit or remove the thread themselves, and if they refuse or don't respond within a reasonable period, THEN take further action.

  7. #7
    Survived the 『Hunt』, but not the Lady. Leon Scott Kennedy's Avatar
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    While I could do that, I choose not to, why? I'll tell you: I know for a fact that, when banned, you can technically return with an active account within forty seconds from the ban, or even less… Mizunetcetera has been guilty of doing that multiple times, within the same day. How do I know? Because I was the one to hand out the original ban and I was still online while he attempted to return with the other accounts (which I also banned). Frankly #1: I have to wonder why Jessie reinstated him, but again, he's the admin and I respect hierarchy.
    Frankly #2: Given how quickly you can come back to post on this place, I'm justified in not giving a shit about the easiness with which I ban users… Having you lose "privileges" over the content you post here is the only thing we "hold over your heads".

  8. #8
    Onion Kid
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    Hello.

    What my surprise this morning seeing my account banned! I don't understand what I did so wrong to receive this without even a warning. It's beyond understanding. After being member for 10 years! I had no idea there was such new rules. We are humans not machines. We can do mistakes, ok? You can't be so radical. I would have appreciated to receive a warning message to understand what I did wrong. So I would not do it again.

    After reading what you say here. Ok you have new rules. I haven't been around here for a while. I have a life you know, I don't check everyday the new rules of every sites I'm visiting. Please, before banning people, send them a warning so they understand what is wrong.

    I just tried to help someone. He was looking for a music and I knew a link so I posted it.
    I had no idea it was a "forbidden OST"! How was I supposed to know that?
    I wanted to HELP! Is this the "reward" we get when we want to HELP people? Ok, ok, I should have known and so on. Ok, my mistake. But is it worth a ban for life just for that?? If you had sent me a warning, I would have understood and removed the link. That would have been it.

    There is this message:

    You have been banned for the following reason:
    Banned fr posting forbidden material [The Nightmare on Elm Street Box Set was released by Varèse Sarabande, which is forbidden]

    Date the ban will be lifted: Never
    I had NO IDEA this was Varèse Sarabande. Ok? No idea. You can't ban people just like that. We are humans not machines. We can do mistakes, ok? You can't be so radical.

    Please, I would like to ask you to reconsider this decision that was really excessive.
    I'm sorry if I did something wrong by mistake, ok? I promise, I won't post anything anymore.

    I had important conversations (private) with people going on as well as other matters going on. I need my account back.
    Once again, sorry.

    My account is Awareman, http://forums.ffshrine.org/member.php?u=243633

    Thanks in advance.
    Last edited by Vermicelli; 10-08-2019 at 04:13 AM.

  9. #9
    Survived the 『Hunt』, but not the Lady. Leon Scott Kennedy's Avatar
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    My, my… I have indeed banned you for life, you're already here asking me to reconsider the decision with another account, thanks for proving my point, not that there was any need for that. As to how were you supposed to know Varèse Sarabande was forbidden: are you playing dumb, because I'll tell you, I have zero tolerance for individuals that waste my time. You also posted in "Film, TV and Classical Music Download Links"… You should have spotted the music that may not be posted for legal reason thread, neglected to give it a read? Not my fault.

    1) Whether you had private conversations/matters going on, or not is none of my concern. If anything, all the more reasons for you to learn and/or refresh your memory about rules, so that pretty much nothing happens to your account privileges;

    2) As I've stated in this very thread, things with the Varèse Sarabande label are kind of critical (again, they did show up to tell the staff to stop the shares of material published by them not once, but twice).

    3) I'll repeat myself once again: the thread about forbidden material has always been at the top of the Download Links subforums… Always. I registered on November 15, 2007… Back then Download Links was still a single subforum (yeah, video games, Anime and movie+television music all in one place)… The sticky thread about forbidden material was already there, at the top. Yet, I should somehow believe that you, folks, don't get to see it… That's not going to happen, even more so when some of you users even started threads of your own in "Film, TV etcetera" (meaning that you must have noticed the sticky threads, before clicking on that button).

  10. #10
    Onion Kid
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    Hello. Okay, do you moderators guys always have to act like this? Is it possible to be a little nice sometimes to people that makes your forum live?
    I have proven your point? What point? I had no other option to contact you (I tried to email the site webmaster with no luck)! I make loose YOUR time?? You make me loose mine here! You complain about people whining and son on, but what are YOU doing here? Always complaining about people and your sacro saint rules... Is it still possible to talk NICE on forums on internet without being all the time so AGRESSIVE? I admitted my mistake, isn't that just enough?? What can I do more? I APOLOGIZED, ok? I APOLOGIZED. Ok, so now, stop making loose my time and your time even more. Just please, reactivate my account and that's it. You won't hear of me anymore.

  11. #11
    Survived the 『Hunt』, but not the Lady. Leon Scott Kennedy's Avatar
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    I'm the one acting like this, please, don't use plurals. You proved my point about banned folks being able to return with another account at top-notch speeds, I guess you didn't read the previous posts in this thread.
    I'm looking at the list of banned users, because as anyone who has been a staff member of a vBulletin board (and loads of other forums) could tell you, the administration control panel has that, too, complete with reasons for the bans which have been provided to users. Want to know what I'm seeing? I'm seeing nicknames of past admins and moderators, which must have been active all the way back when this place still wasn't turned into a den of pirates, that have banned folks for circumventing bans by creating multiple accounts.

    I could have banned you without bothering to engage in a conversation with you, nope, not because I'm not nice, but simply because that's what those who came before me did when under these very same circumstances.

    Wow, you apologized? Do you honestly believe that's going to fix anything? Not going to work with me; we do inform you about what you can and cannot post over at Download Links/Requests, after all. You made a mistake and you paid for it, end of story.

  12. #12
    Onion Kid
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    What is wrong with you? Do you feel forced to have such a despicable behavior? Is it an obligation? Because others before you acted without humanity, you need to copy them? Has internet become such a pack of people that lost their humanity? Yes I apologized, not every one does that! And I recognized a mistake. Not everyone does that either. Having posted a link to another website, not even a direct link, is so much of a crime. While people kill, rape, insult in the world, you ban me for having helped someone in his request. Wow, WOW, what an horrible crime I did!! So terrible. You could have just removed the link from my post with an edit for the reason, or do a simple temporary ban, but no, you need to act like a little DICTATOR. You shoot, then you ask question. I have been nice to you and always to everyone on this board since I subscribed in 2008, but that is becoming INSANE. For all this lost time, you could have restored my account 100x and that would be it. I'm not responsible of your bad mood. You, know? No need to pass your nerves on me. You moderate this board with terror and you hope people will continue to visit it? This is not the "labels" and the court of justice that will kill this forum, this is YOU and your attitude. Continue like that and that's what will happen. Because with such an attitude, this forum will finally die and you'll stay ALONE while everyone will leave it. Then you'll only have yourself to moderate yourself, alone like the sad person you are.

    And yes, I already managed a board, ALONE, I know how it works, thanks for pointing me that. Contrary to you, I had empathy for people and if someone broke the rules, I informed him/her. You need serious reasons to ban people, not random reason like you do. This is amateurish. I also manage ALONE Facebook pages with several ten thousands of members. I don't need moderation lessons from you.

    Seriously, yes I thought that apologizing for such a ridiculous mistake would still work in this world but I see that this world and internet in particular is beyond help.

    I don't give much hope to the future of this world with people like you. You have no empathy, you act like a cowboy with no humanity.

    Just like "daltysmilth" said, "do your job as moderator", not as dictator!

    THIS IS RIDICULOUS.
    Last edited by Vermicelli; 10-08-2019 at 08:08 AM.

  13. #13
    Anatomically Correct ManRay's Avatar
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    lmao, you Movie Music Guys are hilarious.

  14. #14
    Again, if multiple people keep asking the same question about the rules, then it seems clear that the rules are not being communicated effectively. And maybe... just maybe people wouldn't be so quick to try to come up with ways to circumvent bans if you weren't so quick to ban them in the first place. Maybe we don't keep ourselves updated on the rules. So what? When Facebook or Apple or whatever platforms or websites you use update their terms of service, do YOU go through and read it every time, or do you just assume things are pretty much the same and click "accept" and move on?

  15. #15
    Anatomically Correct ManRay's Avatar
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    You accept the Rules and agree to follow them when you make a Post on here,
    same as when you click Accept on those ToS...

    After that you get reprimanded if you break the Rules, makes Sense to me.

  16. #16
    Bella Notte Lover PonyoBellanote's Avatar
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    It's only a pity Leon doesn't apply the same harshness to the Video Game Section you love so much, otherwise you'd be singing another song.
    Wishlist:
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    RS = Recording Sessions
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  17. #17
    Anatomically Correct ManRay's Avatar
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    I am sure Leon would if it did cause as much Drama and Work for Leon as does the Movie Section.

  18. #18
    Bella Notte Lover PonyoBellanote's Avatar
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    Yeah, right.

  19. #19
    Survived the 『Hunt』, but not the Lady. Leon Scott Kennedy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PonyoBellanote View Post
    It's only a pity Leon doesn't apply the same harshness to the Video Game Section you love so much, otherwise you'd be singing another song.
    Why would I? Aside from Myzunetcetera, the VGM users that earned bans took those as, dare I say, mature/adult folks… No pathetic shows. Granted, some attempted to return with different accounts, but even those have been banned and… Once again… No "scene" whatsoever, they simply came back… "Leeched" downloads links, sadly for them, I eventually found "matches", so out they went again.

    Another thing that you always seem to conveniently ignore, Ponyo: it's a fact that, as far as legal threats to this board's "operational" status are concerned, Film/TV has been far more problematic than both Video Game Music and Anime Music have ever been. Anyone who has been registered to this place for as long as yours truly can attest to that; hell, let's play a small game, just for shits and giggles…
    You see, one doesn't even need to have been around the Shrine for more than ten years (through which we've got to bore witness to some crazy stuff, like that Star Trek Box Set and the shitstorm that followed its share here… "I'LL CRUSH FFSHRINE!!!!!" Mwahahahah!), just go examine the "music that may not be posted for legal reasons" thread. I'm being half-serious here, this Gabriele is asking any of you to go to that thread, examine the list, count how many forbidden entries there are for VG-related stuff, and how many there are for Movies/TVs/etcetera (composers who work most prominently in one field, or the other included, of course)… I'm fairly sure that the latter will "win", but even if it doesn't, the sheer gravity of the various "drama episodes+shitstorms" spawned from that subforum are more than enough to permanently earn it the title of Troublemaker.

    Now, daltysmilth, you may call me crazy, or even overzealous… But I do take care to read these documents from start to finish, because this stuff is important and… You know… It may contain the sort of information that the powers that be might use against me, if I'm not careful… Which is exactly what I've been doing here, Shriners. Yeah, I appear harsh, severe… But who's neglecting to keep himself/herself up-to-date about what's okay and what is not okay? You are, folks. I refuse to take the blame because you display an irresponsible behaviour. You registered back in Aprill, 2007, the sticky thread that informs you of what is forbidden is at the top of Film, TV Music Download Links and, as a matter of fact, I've taken care of putting up a carbon copy as a sticky over at Video Game Music, too.
    That thread has always been at the top of Download Links, as you should know. Now, I've been entrusted with moderation privileges to keep a semblance of order around here, enforce the rules and punish those that commit breaches of them.

    Vermicelli, for what I hope will be the last time: if you had bothered to read that goddamn thread, you would have noticed it was last edited around July, 2017. July 2017! As I told you before, 20th Century Fox hasn't been the latest addition to what constitutes forbidden material, want to know something? I showed leniency, users had a grace period of a couple of months when its ban was "new"… But! Again! 2017! We are now approaching the end of 2019, for God's sake. We're way past the point I can afford to show leniency.
    Another tidbit, if you ever come back to a board after a long period of absence, not only you'd do well to refresh your memory about its rules, but, in case there's something akin to that "music that may NOT be posted for legal reasons thread"… Well, you should think that anything in that thread is going to royally and completely screw you over. I don't mince words, yep.
    Another thing, I must clap hands, because something you mentioned happens to be right: I'm referring to the word DICTATORSHIP. Forums are dictatorships; now, how you choose to run your board is your business and yours alone, but if you analyze everything from an absolutely neutral point of view, you'll hopefully come to realize that that's the reality of things:

    - There is one person that holds absolute power, so to speak: that person is the one that pays the bills that keep the place online;
    - There's a hierarchy of "officials" entrusted to act as an extension of the boss' will (other admins and moderators);
    - There are rules set in place and no, they don't necessarily have to change to "appease" the users. If folks plan to stick around the board, they better learn to comply with the rules. If, for any reason, they're not okay with something the terms of service they've agreed to abide by, when creating the accounts, more often than not actually require them to cease any and all activity on the board.
    Even the chance to discuss certain rules, to provide feedback is actually a form of courtesy that the staff of the board may provide, but do not make the mistake to take this sort of stuff for granted.


    Lastly, your assumptions about my life and character are pathetic… Just like the rest of you, Vermicelli. You are the one getting worked up over a ban which took place on a board where John Doe(s) and Jane Doe(s) illegally share music, it's plain to see for anyone who bothers to read this whole thing… I even had to read mentions of rape, murder. Please, no more of your bullshit, I haven't banned you "because you helped someone", I banned you because what you did goes against the rules.
    Now, if you'll excuse me, I'll go back to watching my thirteen years old daughter play some Metal Gear, something far better than this pathetic spectacle.

  20. #20
    Okay, fine. You are under no obligation to give anyone any kind of warning before you suspend their account. Much like 20th Century Fox or Varese Sarabende or LaLaLand or any other label is under any obligation to warn you before they take legal action against you. But they still do so, don't they? They give you the chance to remove any offending material from the site before they take you to court, don't they? But I suppose the difference is while it would cost them money to take you to court-- most likely more money than they could ever hope to get out of you, it costs you nothing to just suspend someone's account with no warning. Of course, it would also cost you nothing to warn someone BEFORE banning them, but I guess it would take more time to say "Hey just a reminder posting or requesting links to x is against the rules. You have 3 hours to remove this post or you will be temporarily banned and we will remove it for you." Either way, it DEFINITELY costs you nothing, including time, to NOT immediately cop an attitude and become rude and passive-aggressive when someone asks a question about the rules or policies of this forum.

  21. #21
    Survived the 『Hunt』, but not the Lady. Leon Scott Kennedy's Avatar
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    Like I said, and I'm not honestly appalled at the fact that you apparently missed it, I have been lenient shortly after the ban was put in effect, a long time has passed since then, though.

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