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Thread: The Official FFVII Remake Thread

  1. #26
    Grand Shriner
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    Lol! No Worries.
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  2. #27
    RIP FFShrine: 2001-2010 Olde's Avatar
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    Vry, as usual you bring up a number of fair points; I personally did not like anything post-FFXII, and even XII is almost impossible for me to play beginning to end again. I didn't like Tomb Raider, never tried Human Revolution or Bravely Default (heard the former was bad, heard the latter was good). It is true that there does need to be a market for things to be successful, and many failures are retroactively seen as works of genius way ahead of their time. But I can't say anything S-E has made in the past 10 years is a work of genius, and would be reluctant to even use the word "good" on anything I've seen. It may seem like a cliche or oversimplification, but I feel that S-E has become so afraid to take risks that they stick to their formula of making their games simply movies where the player runs from cutscene to cutscene mashing X along the way. I have yet to witness interesting gameplay, dialogue, music, and even an interesting story from S-E. From what I've seen from them, they're just pumping out the same bland, superficial, beautiful graphically but otherwise hollow and meaningless "games." I use the word "game" here loosely because S-E's creations aren't so much about winning or losing as they are about moving the character along a set of tracks to unlock the next video clip of a shitty story; and with games like that, we all lose.

    The ultimate problem though is something that you have stated very clearly, which is the truth as I see it, and which is what I'm afraid perpetuates their cycle of shit:

    Quote Originally Posted by Vrykolas View Post
    But they *will* all (despite what they will claim) buy it. And at the end of the day, that is evidently good enough for SE...
    That's what I mean when I say they don't care. The fans vote with their wallets and when the transaction is complete, the company receives fan approval. There's no alternative (who else has the rights to remake FFVII?) so really nothing's ensuring quality control. They could release dog shit and they'd make bank. And, as far as I understand it, if the game is distributed digitally (isn't that becoming the default method of distributing games now?) there's effectively no way the customer can get a refund if the game technically works. A declining console market may inhibit the franchise at the outset but recall that FFXIII, XIII-2, and XIV are all on Steam now. There's no reason why S-E can't and shouldn't start to focus more heavily on catering to the PC market, and in fact FFXIV shows that that may be where they're headed. Although at this point we've gotten sidetracked and aren't talking so much about the FFVII remake as about S-E in general.
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  3. #28
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    But what is caring exactly? Because let me put this way - if I took every FF from say FF10 onwards (and I could go back further, but this is just for the sake of argument, keeping it to modernish consoles for comparison purposes), and compared the performance with that of Bethesda, Obsidian and Bioware games, then SE's games absolutely blow the others away in terms of how smoothly they run, certainly hold their own in how nice they look (relative to when they were made of course) and crucially how little they crash or have game breaking bugs.

    I can count on my fingers the numbers of crashes or game destroying bugs that have affected my Final Fantasy experiences (and that's taking them all together). In comparison, I probably had more crashes on any single game by those other companies, than I have had on all the SE games I've played combined. Say what you will, but SE do care about putting a quality product out there. Western games crash *all* the time, and are released riddled through with bugs and glitches. Japanese developers like Atlus and SE don't have anywhere near that level of technical incompetance and carelessness.

    And if you haven't played the best games they have been releasing these last few years, then is that their fault?! You haven't played Deus Ex or Bravely, but are content to label all their recent releases and projects as garbage? Its like saying Charles Dickens was a hack writer who never wrote anything good, after only reading his kindergarden scribbles on the walls during playtime. At least look at the material first, before you dismiss it out of hand! And you disliking Tomb Raider doesn't make it a bad game (it doesn't necessarily make it a good game either of course, although I think its pretty good myself). And if you haven't played it, then I really do recommend at least FF13-2. 13 and Lightning Returns are divisive games, but 13-2 is one of the best JRPGs I've played in God knows how long. Its just my opinion of course, but I think I've established that if nothing else, I try to be honest about what I think about every game I play. If I think its good, I'll say so. If I think its bad, I'll say that. Nobody is free from at least some bias, but I try to stay objective as much as possible and not get tribal about these things.

    And yes, we can all get behind the fact that gamers and their buying habits are very annoying. What gamers *claim* to want is never really what their buying habits suggest they *actually* want. Innovation and new IP are rarely given any credit at all, and hardly anyone buys new IP, unless the developer and publishers spend big bucks on ad campaigns and bribing the press into pushing these things. Even then, many such games flop. Like all businesses, SE engage in many unsavory practices in the name of O Mighty Dollar. But that is simply the reality of what must be done to survive. You see what's happening the industry - developers are folding left, right and centre. And any suggestion that these big companies are 'too big to fail...' Well they said that about Lehmann Brothers, didn't they and look how that turned out. Business is a murky world, and even the companies who are at the top of the finanncial tree are only a few missteps away from complete ruin.

    SE has a particularly difficult job, because its main franchise is a global one. On the one hand, that means money from all over, but it also means that they have to create games which appeal to Western and Eastern fans. And the culture divide between the 2 is immense. We don't like the same kinds of stories, we don't tell stories in the same ways, and we don't revere the same kinds of characters. Add in the translation and localisation that story heavy games must go through, and the whole recasting of voice actors for the western versions, and its a wonder any of it ever works or sells at all.

    And like it or not (God knows I don't), but this isn't the golden age of the JRPG anymore. Its a dying genre, and that's putting a generous spin on it. The west prefer their own RPGs these days, and the Japs are into shorter and smaller gaming formats than the traditional old epics now. A lot of people in the Internet Echo Chamber *think* they have all the answers on what SE should *obviously* do. But they all contradict each other, and its still largely a case of a niche community talking to itself. Without mainstream support, without regular non niche gamers buying into this stuff, SE would never be able to release games with the production values that people expect of them. Its the same problem RE has. The Revelations spin off series is closer to the original series' survival horror roots, but has such a small budget that it looks and plays too scratchily for many gamers. Sakaguichi himself has tried to stay true to the roots of the JRPG genre since leaving SE, but his games have been of very uneven quality, and most of them seem painfully old fasioned and behind the times (Lost Odyssesy etc). Meanwhile, From Software have been a Japanese success story, but their games are more like 3D actioners than true RPGs.

    How to make a JRPG in modern times that looks and plays well, is true to the genre and delivers a truly engaging story that forges its own path, rather than relying on old glories and which will has a chance of selling well enough that it won't bankrupt the company making it in the process? Hell, if you know how to do it, then get on the phone to SE right now! Because its pretty much the Holy Grail that I've been seeking, and nobody really seems to have a clue how to do it.

    I'm not trying to pick a fight on this, just pointing out that despite what the Internet Echo Chamber insists, this is not a simple case of some greedy corporation who could make great games, but are choosing not to, because they can't be arsed. They spend huge amounts getting these games to work properly in the way that Western companies never really do. They care about quality, because its their business and their reputation on the line. And compared to the cookie cutter sequels of the west, their games are always wildly different in terms of systems, so they can't really be accused of resting on their laurels. Yes, they are going back to the well with FF7, and I'm not happy about that either, but its the times we live in. Are SE the only ones indulging in remakes and direct sequels? Of course not - everyone is doing it now, because everyone needs a quick buck and a sure thing just to survive these days.

    It sucks, but there it is. We all wish it was a better time for JRPGs, and that people would buy them and reward the quality ones that do come along (if you listened to the Internet, you'd think Persona was some huge selling series, but it isn't at all). None of this is any excuse for bad games - on that we do agree. We simply disagree to the extent to which SE are making bad games. Are they making lots of games that inspire me in the way their earlier ones did? No (but again, I really *did* feel that way about 13-2, so...) But their output has still been pretty good, despite the huge pressures the market is under, and their publishing work is allowing some great games to see the light of day (Life is Strange is an interesting oddity that DontNod candidly admit wouldn't exist without SE, because everyone else they approached insisted the main character be Male, and that they alter the story to be more commercially appealing).

    As much as any of these businesses care, I still believe SE care. Money will always come first, but art still lives in their games and the games they choose to support and publish. And since that is my principal reason for gaming at all, I don't tend to sugarcoat my opinions on such things (doesn't make me right all the time of course, but I do what I can ) Business will always frustrate and disgust us consumers, but SE are no worse than anyone else (and frankly they aren't close to being the worst). The FF7 remake is depressing, but they have other projects on the go that are interesting and intriguing me, so I can deal with this sad but predictable news.

    I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. A pleasure to debate it as always though, Olde.

  4. #29
    jen' jari iv tave sith Darth Revan's Avatar
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    This is getting off topic. Please return to the topic of the thread (as much as I am to loathe it). Thanks.


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  5. #30
    Ultros' New Sidekick JohnnyMercyside's Avatar
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    It's the little things I'm intrigued about, when it comes to keeping them in or not.

    Like will Yuffie and Vincent be optional? I just can't see it being the case. Would the Wutai side quest be made permanent - with it being such a big arch of Yuffie's background story? Finding out Vincent's past as well.

    They can expand on a lot of the little things as well - will we see Sephiroth actually take on the Midgar Zolom rather than just see the snake spiked on a massive bit of wood? The Gelnika Abandoned Ship with all the Mako monsters... was an awesome part of the game that was completely optional, as was finding out about Zack's parents being from Gongaga.... that's a MUST surely? Some thoughts off the top of my head to keep the thread on topic
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  6. #31
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    But I was just about to talk about how Pac Man's history has relevance to the Gulf War. Man, we can't talk about anything anymore...

    Well, if we *must* stay on topic...

    I suspect that their approach will be to make everything the same, as near as is possible. As the project develops, people will make suggestions on refinements and additions, but they will have their work cut out for them just seeing to the casting of the characters, and what to do about the script. It will need some updating, as the translation and localisation was infamously uneven.

    But they must be aware that whenever they changed *anything* at all, they will enrage someone, no matter how small of insigificant the changes may seem. Remember that if a new director or writing team make any changes, it will be seen as desecration by many, who simply will not accept any changes at all. There will be many who won't even want obvious syntax and translation errors to be changed.

    Balanced against this is the argument that gaming has moved on since FF7. Do random battles still have any place in gaming these days, when they have been disowned by just about every game made in the last 10 years? Do gamers have the patience to grind out items, money, put in all the endless trekking about and bother that has to be put into the Golden Chocobo quest? But again, if any of it changes, then there will be mobs with pitchforks marching on SE headquarters. This is an impossible task they have set themselves. If they update this aging classic for modern times, they will be killed by the fans. If they don't change anything but the graphics, then the mainstream will have far less interest in it, and the fans *still* won't be happy because they'll say its just a con with SE trying to get them to pay for a game they've already played and/or already own.

    For every person they please with 1 decision, they will annoy 10 others. And when you collect that together over all the various decisions involved in making this game, you will a product that enrages everyone, and because JRPGs are so out of fashion, still won't be anything more than a passing couple of days curiosity to the mainstream. It'll make an ocean of cash, but the grief they get over the game will be all anyone talks about for decades afterwards.

    The only thing that could save this misguided project is if 'The Magic' happens, and lightning does indeed strike the same place twice. Particularly if by some miracle they can update the script to be of genuinely high quality, and the actors manage to click in their roles (which will almost certainly mean hiring unknowns, because the old favorites are too well known and ubiqitous by now). Basically if 'it just works somehow', then they would be alright. But the odds of that are like saying if I take a bus out to the middle of nowhere, take out a spade and start digging in a random spot, I might find a treasure chest filled with gold bars. It could happen, but its masssively, massively unlikely.
    Last edited by Vrykolas; 07-12-2015 at 03:48 PM.

  7. #32
    RIP FFShrine: 2001-2010 Olde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyMercyside View Post
    Like will Yuffie and Vincent be optional? I just can't see it being the case. Would the Wutai side quest be made permanent - with it being such a big arch of Yuffie's background story? Finding out Vincent's past as well.
    I find this question really interesting, actually, because it shows how different games are now than they were back then. I think there were a lot more secrets/hidden gems that rewarded exploration and straying from the beaten path. Think about how much games these days hold your hand, hell, even going so far as to basically insult the player's intelligence by tutorial after tutorial about such basics as moving the player around. Given how "essential" Yuffie and Vincent are to the plot, do you really expect the game developers to "hide" such important and charismatic characters? I really don't think so. It's sad actually because FFVII had those secrets at a time when the internet wasn't nearly as pervasive as it is now; it was entirely possible to play through the game and not only not get either character but not even know they were in there! Bizarrely, now we have the internet at our disposal but games try to be more inclusive than ever, and at least in my experience, there are fewer "hidden gems" than ever before (e.g. completely optional side quests). I'll admit, FFXII went WAY overboard on the secrets to the detriment of the game but that doesn't mean there can't be a happy medium.

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyMercyside View Post
    They can expand on a lot of the little things as well - will we see Sephiroth actually take on the Midgar Zolom rather than just see the snake spiked on a massive bit of wood? The Gelnika Abandoned Ship with all the Mako monsters... was an awesome part of the game that was completely optional, as was finding out about Zack's parents being from Gongaga.... that's a MUST surely? Some thoughts off the top of my head to keep the thread on topic
    That's another interesting thing; to what degree is this going to be a remaster, a remake, a retelling, or a re-envisioning? Personally I'm on the fence; on the one hand I don't want to see them completely ass-rape the story and think they should just go with a graphical update. But on the other hand, I'm thinking, to what degree would a graphical update even be necessary? If they're going to update it, might as well add more content, no? The most I can hope for is that they stay true to the source material and any expansion is not only in line with the original story/later compilation but also tonally appropriate. There's no way the remake will have the impact that the original had, which was groundbreaking, and I don't think it's going to win any converts to the series. It just seems to me like a cash-in and pandering from a desperate company.

    But probably my biggest source of skepticism comes from not knowing how the newer style of games can keep the story from falling apart at the seams. Remember that the more primitive design, with no voice acting and more or less deformed anime character design, afforded a greater suspension of disbelief. How well will the story and characters translate when the characters walk and talk like real people instead of like the cartoons/caricatures that they were in the original? I can only hope it translates well to the new medium.

  8. #33
    Ultros' New Sidekick JohnnyMercyside's Avatar
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    Another thing I want to mention is, like the idea of a remake or not, but you have to respect the fact that, to my knowledge, this is the biggest remake in video game history to one respect.

    I don't think a game has been remade before that takes 40-80 hours to complete. This is a MASSIVE game being made into probably an even bigger game. We've had some decent remakes in the past, Resident Evil 1, Halo 1, Pokemon FireRed, Twisted Metal, Mortal Kombat etc, but in terms of such a vast storyline, a vast world, this is the biggest remake in history.

  9. #34
    jen' jari iv tave sith Darth Revan's Avatar
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    Which also means more chances to fuck it up. This is why I'm against remakes on principle... they NEVER stand up to the original material. Due to either mismanagement of the team, no idea of what one part of the team is doing to the other, retconning of new material etc etc.

  10. #35
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    I don't know if I agree with that necessarily. Resident Evil 1 remake is *far* better than the original, and the changes were all for the better. I'd also take the new X-COM game over the old original. But I agree that the process is so fraught with trouble that most remakes aren't worth the effort, because they will end up pleasing nobody. The 2 examples I gave there are pretty much the only remakes I can think of that haven't completely sucked!

    And on the note of secret characters - it has *always* been a bad idea to have optional characters in any game, and I said as much back then too. If a character is optional, the game cannot guarantee they are there in any given scene, so they tend to get next to nothing to say or do, beyond simple interchangeable 'So, what do we do now?' lines. This is also why the 2nd half of most JRPGs aren't as good as the first half, because the game frees you up to take whoever you like in your party, and the tight scripting of sequences breaks down, so only the mandatory characters (usually the main hero and heroine) get anything of substance to say or do.

    I think the fact that Yuffie and Vincent's presence is considered canon by the various other FF7 related materials, may encourage them to just make them mandatory pick ups to join the team. But on the other hand and to reiterate the point, people will rage hard if that is the case.

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vrykolas View Post
    I don't know if I agree with that necessarily. Resident Evil 1 remake is *far* better than the original, and the changes were all for the better. I'd also take the new X-COM game over the old original. But I agree that the process is so fraught with trouble that most remakes aren't worth the effort, because they will end up pleasing nobody. The 2 examples I gave there are pretty much the only remakes I can think of that haven't completely sucked!
    Knowing S-E's track record, do you really think this remake has a chance to surpass the ORIGINAL? Remember, this is S-E we're talking about, the company that released FFVIII on Steam with the shittiest MIDI versions of the music and still hasn't fixed all the bugs involved with that game, like the fact that you can't use a controller's analog stick and D-pad at the same time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vrykolas View Post
    And on the note of secret characters - it has *always* been a bad idea to have optional characters in any game, and I said as much back then too. If a character is optional, the game cannot guarantee they are there in any given scene, so they tend to get next to nothing to say or do, beyond simple interchangeable 'So, what do we do now?' lines. This is also why the 2nd half of most JRPGs aren't as good as the first half, because the game frees you up to take whoever you like in your party, and the tight scripting of sequences breaks down, so only the mandatory characters (usually the main hero and heroine) get anything of substance to say or do.
    Considering how much data a disc can hold nowadays, I'm pretty sure they could write four versions of the script: one with no optional characters, one with just Yuffie, one with just Vincent, and one with both. It's really not that hard.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vrykolas View Post
    I think the fact that Yuffie and Vincent's presence is considered canon by the various other FF7 related materials, may encourage them to just make them mandatory pick ups to join the team. But on the other hand and to reiterate the point, people will rage hard if that is the case.
    Yup. I know I would...

    Spoiler!

  12. #37
    Ultros' New Sidekick JohnnyMercyside's Avatar
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    I don't think anyone within their right mind will expect this to surpass the original. But if it comes close I'll be happy

    As for the question of do I think it will? I think it'll be better than the pessimists think it will be. But I also think it'll be worse than the over-excited optimists think it will be. I'm neutrally excited about this game and think it'll be good but not great

  13. #38
    Grand Shriner FF7genie's Avatar
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    I see they already screwed with the battle system. The same battle system that made alot of people love this game. The same battle system that the persona series uses still and is STILL one of the best selling rpgs ever. And personal 5 comes out soon, Wich is sticking to its roots and keeping there turnbased battle system. You don't see Zelda changing anything accept there graphics and they still sell millions... what I'm saying is if a formula worked before , don't change it....

    I'm still going to buy this game and probably beat it 15 times because I love it to death... but as soon as I seen the battle system in the game play trailer , my heart sank. How are we gonna choose each characters action, are they dumbing down the materia system, and am I going to be able to just spam attack and beat the game? (I don't want that at all). . My biggest concern is how are they going to make the battle system work. Heart broken. If I'm not happy within 5 hours of game play I won't even attempt to ruin the good memory I have for the game. .

    ---------- Post added at 09:11 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:09 AM ----------

    Atleast they promised the storyline untouched... they can screw with the script, just keep the story atleast.

  14. #39
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    Square-Enix has this unnatural belief that Turn-Based Combat simply has no place in today's gaming even though that perception is purely ass backwards since it's proven that it's still welcome to us gamers regardless, had it not been the case then why are Shin Megami Tensei, Persona and POKÉMON still going strong?

    But going back on topic, the Remake has a dubious task to accomplish and it sure as hell won't be pretty given the venomous image that SQ has today. Either the company mans ups and pulls it's shit together or this has the potential of being their biggest disaster to date. Remember how Final Fantasy XIV's initial launch almost killed the franchise AND THE company? This could be the death blow if the worst case scenario happens.

    But still, if I were to give Square-Enix credit where it's due, is that they're not as moronically brain-damaged as say SEGA or Konami.

  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3DMan View Post
    Square-Enix has this unnatural belief that Turn-Based Combat simply has no place in today's gaming even though that perception is purely ass backwards since it's proven that it's still welcome to us gamers regardless, had it not been the case then why are Shin Megami Tensei, Persona and POKÉMON still going strong?
    I noticed that too. I hadn't played a turn-based combat game in a long time until I recently picked up Cthulu Saves the World and I was amazed at how effective a system it still is. It seems like S-E thinks that gamers nowadays have the attention span of a goldfish and need to constantly see the characters hitting things to keep interested. Their new combat system is just...meaningless.

    Quote Originally Posted by 3DMan View Post
    But going back on topic, the Remake has a dubious task to accomplish and it sure as hell won't be pretty given the venomous image that SQ has today. Either the company mans ups and pulls it's shit together or this has the potential of being their biggest disaster to date. Remember how Final Fantasy XIV's initial launch almost killed the franchise AND THE company? This could be the death blow if the worst case scenario happens.
    Does anybody still pay them any mind? I figure that for most Final Fantasy fans, the company might as well have died in 2006, as that was when their last good FF game was released, and even that is controversial.

  16. #41
    jen' jari iv tave sith Darth Revan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3DMan View Post
    Remember how Final Fantasy XIV's initial launch almost killed the franchise AND THE company?
    Yet A Realm Reborn has exceeded their wildest expectations... and is still going strong 2 years after release.

  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olde
    Does anybody still pay them any mind? I figure that for most Final Fantasy fans, the company might as well have died in 2006, as that was when their last good FF game was released, and even that is controversial.
    The last good Final Fantasy game, for me at least, was the DS remake of IV despite of how murderously hard it was, though I've grown to appreciate more of XII after playing Xenoblade Chronicles.

    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Revan View Post
    Yet A Realm Reborn has exceeded their wildest expectations... and is still going strong 2 years after release.
    Sure, but that doesn't excuse at all that they messed up big time at the time of it's initial launch and nearly were driven out of the gaming business, so what's the chances the same won't happen with the Remake once it first releases given the inflated budget and the plethora of changes going against it (Battle System, Episodic Format, Retcons, so forth)? Of course, I might be talking outta my ass given the blind fans who'll eat anything Nomura digests out.

    Hell, I can even see Squeenix trying to pull a Crapcom or EA with DLC practices on this one along the lines of such bullshit like «Aerith Lives! Now for 40 Dollars.»

  18. #43
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    SE learned from their mistake and shitkicked the original director of FFXIV out the door... Yoshi P, the guy currently in charge of XIV ARR has done a lot of good and XIV ARR has come a long way since XIV V 1.0. The original director wanted nothing to do with a online FF from what I was told (that or he just didn't have any experience with a MMORPG before) and did the bare minimum...

    Regarding the VII remake.. meh, don't care what happens with that.

  19. #44
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    some new info

    The Final Fantasy 7 remake was announced at E3 2015 with a sweet-looking trailer and not a lot in the way of actual information. But in a recent interview with Dengeki PlayStation, translated by Gematsu, Director Tetsuya Nomura and Producer Yishinori Kitase revealed a little bit more about what's in store, including that the game will be fully voiced.

    The developers still haven't settled on the voices of characters who weren't in Final Fantasy 7: Advent Children, but added that dating events—in which you decide who takes Cloud Strife out for a night on the town—will be voiced just like everything else. "It would be impossible not to. However, since it’s different from that time and social situation, we need implement the reproduction of original events carefully," Kitase said, apparently in reference to the Honey Bee Inn, a quest-related brothel featuring content that ultimately proved too steamy for the final release of the game............

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    ---------- Post added at 03:00 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:43 PM ----------

    some more this interview they sort of make it seem like there completely changing the plot to the original?!?!?!?!.. I would be very disappointed if that was the case... check for yourself..... vvvvvv link and story below vvvvvv

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    In interviews with Dengeki Online and Famitsu on December 7, Final Fantasy VII Remake director Tetsuya Nomura and producer Yoshinori Kitase elaborated on the remake's multi-title split, the battle system, and the changes in the game's story. Nomura also confirmed that the remake's scenario retains the cross-dressing Cloud from the original, although the HD designs have not been done yet. CyberConnect2 is collaborating with Square Enix on development.



    Splitting the Game into Multiple Parts

    Regarding the decision to split the remake into a multi-part series, Nomura stated that "There will be parts that have to be removed, but there will be a significant number of added scenes as well. We decided that it has to be split into multiple titles to be a 'full volume' remake." Kitase added that they had "only shown Sector 1 and Sector 8, and if we made the entire game in that quality, one title wouldn't be enough."



    Character Designs

    In the Famitsu interview, Nomura said that players would also be able to explore areas such as the city of Midgar, and go to places that they previously could not in the original game. He also stated that character designer Roberto Ferrari worked on the character designs for Biggs, Wedge, and Jessie, who appeared in the latest trailer (viewed below). Nomura also commented on Barret's new character design, mentioning that this is how Barret would look in a more realistic setting, and that he had planned for redesigns for some of the characters from the beginning.

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