What did you like most about FFXII?

[Song_Of_Silence]

Okay this is coming from a FF fan to another. This is also coming from someone who never played FFXII because it looks grungy and the chocobos look like overgrown chickens. I watched a friend play it and it looks like Star Wars with a problem and lacks good character design really.

So please..help me gain insight into why you like this particular installment of the game. So that I can look at in another light.

Spoilers welcome since I never plan of playing the game and please keep it polite. No cursing and no unreasonable arguing. Also no name calling. Argue your point in a respectable, mature, fashion.

[Marshall Lee]

I guess I liked the music the most of all since I listen to the soundtrack to XII a lot more than most other FF's (besides IX). Masaharu Iwata and Hitoshi Sakimoto did a fabulous job with Tactics and I was pleased to hear they would be composing the score for Final Fantasy XII.

I guess another thing I liked about this game is the racial diversity that was spanned throughout it, you got to see Humans, Viera, Bangaa, Nu-Mou, Seeqs, and Moogles come together, similar to Tactics Advance but XII has a different look and feel to it.

[doomjockey]

Respectufully, you might clearly explain your gripes with the game because no one will know what you mean by "grungy" and "Star Wars with a problem". And why you would skip the game because of chocobos...



I enjoyed the gameplay most and the battle system. Spent more hours focused on hunts and leveling than the game's story. The graphics too were quite refreshing. Or maybe just a welcome change after seeing the same designs cross from FFX to X-2.

[Song_Of_Silence]

Respectufully, you might clearly explain your gripes with the game because no one will know what you mean by "grungy" and "Star Wars with a problem". And why you would skip the game because of chocobos...



I enjoyed the gameplay most and the battle system. Spent more hours focused on hunts and leveling than the game's story. The graphics too were quite refreshing. Or maybe just a welcome change after seeing the same designs cross from FFX to X-2.

Yeah I see that the battle system is like Kingdom Hearts. The grungy look comes from the mute colors and the chocobos lack the same lighthearted feel.

It's good to see someone talk about the battle system but you said that you spent more hours on gameplay and leveling than on than story. But maybe since I really really look at the story is why I was probably turned off by it.

But part of a good game is the story. What turned you onto to playing the game if you didn't focus on the story? Was it just because of the fact that it's a FF installment?

[doomjockey]

But part of a good game is the story. What turned you onto to playing the game if you didn't focus on the story? Was it just because of the fact that it's a FF installment?

As I said, the gameplay. To me, the gameplay made up for it. Pretty much the only reason I kept playing besides a vague and dissociative desire to see events play out. The story is not abysmal. Simply, I found its grip upon my interest lacking more than past FFs and its PS2 contemporaries.

But 70% of the game is grinding/hunting/dungeon devling so it's not that hard to ignore the parts I didn't like.

[Zak]

The story sucked and this is still one of the most fun games to complete. I played through it barely having any idea what was going on, but really, if you're just gonna play this game and ignore sidequests, it's going to be really boring.

This game had battles that were actually challenging and requiring strategy and thinking ahead, and it was always a different approach. Mark hunting, completing the Bestiary, among other stuff... was quite fun. It's also got a great license system with equipment, and learning magic is really not all that complicated.
Might I also add that a lot of things make cameos and references to past FFs, such as... well, without spoiling too much I'll say there is a reference to II, V, and VI, and possibly more. But this is only in sidequests.
As for things always having a different approach, that's what I liked about the Rare Game sidequest even though it was annoying as fuck.

Might I mention that all the mandatory battles are a joke. That's right this game is mainly a challenge for completionists so if you're not someone who bothers with that kind of stuff then you probably won't like it. But if you are I would recommend it because I had more fun dominating it than most of the other installments.

During my second playthrough there were parts where I'd get to a point in the story and spend days completing other quests before advancing in the story.

[Slavka]

Well, I actually liked the story, but maybe that's just me.

[Ceidwad]

The sheer amount of stuff you can do in it. It was the first FF game of the modern era to have a decent-length main plot (i.e. not FFX-2) and have optional content that could reasonably stretch you as far as the main game. Just doing all the hunts gives you an extra 30+ hours of gameplay, minimum.

Also, the music was good, the gambit system was refreshing albeit sometimes too limited and the graphcal developments since FFX, especially the moveable camera, were welcome.

[Song_Of_Silence]

Well, I actually liked the story, but maybe that's just me.

Okay so what did you like about the story? Explain it to me spoilers and all.
Zak said that it sucked. Why did it suck to you Zak?
And as far as the gambit and licencing system goes...Isn't Bathier a sky pirate. Why the hell would he need or even want a licence to bear arms. Doesn't that kind of defeat the purpose of him being a pirate.
Last time I checked...
If you're doing anything illegal and or against their corrupt government, wouldn't you want to stay as low-key as possible?
In some games the battle system doesn't system make sense with the story.
And the gambit system I've heard was incredibly annoying. How'd you guys like it?

And don't even let me get into the espers...

[Ceidwad]

The gambit system was mainly a bonus because it took out the necessary button pressing that was necessary in previous FFs, where all you did for a good deal of battles was simply Attack of cast Cure 99% of the time.

It also adds a good degree of strategy and seeing your party co-ordinate a gambit-specific chain of commands could be rewarding.

'Licence' doesn't need to be taken literally in Balthier's case. It could simply represent his level of confidence that he knows enough about the weapon/armour/ability to use it without it going wrong.

In what way does the battle system not fit in with the story? Can you give examples?

[wolfmaster913]

I liked the story for FF12. I spent my first trip through the game focusing on the story mainly so that it really made sense and was pretty interesting. Sure, some of the characters like Vaan and Penelo really didn't interest me, but I have found people like that in every FF game.

As for the license and gambit systems, I thought those were great. As Ceidwad has already said, the gambit system really was one of the big improvements. It sure beats hitting the O button ten million times. And the license system was pretty interesting, it made a lot more sense than the sphere grid from FF 10.

The length of the game was another thing I really liked. On each of my playthroughs I have reached at least 100 hours. The only other FF game that I did that on was FF 10. Completing the hunts and defeating the espers was where the real challenge came in. Spending the extra time to do these really did add to the enjoyment I got from the game.

So I guess what I am trying to say is that the game is great because of all of the parts put together. If you simply look at just one part then you will miss out. Trust me, I almost didn't play FF 12 because of the battle system. I was really disappointed that it wasn't turn-based anymore, but after playing for a while I got used to it and now I love it.

I do have one question though. I don't mean this to sound rude, but I am curious as to why you are wanting to know the redeeming points of FF 12 if you absolutely refuse to ever play the game?

[doomjockey]

In some games the battle system doesn't system make sense with the story. And the gambit system I've heard was incredibly annoying. How'd you guys like it?

The game functions on the exact same principles as ATB. If you never use gambits the battles function just like any other RPG. Gambits are just macros/scripts in disguise. You don't have to use them and won't suffer for it because the option to set battle to "wait" remains. And because of that it's a good, flexible system allowing you to completely disavow gambits if you don't like them. Perhaps the only gripe I had with it was in being forced to "discover" new gambits. And it's a pretty minor gripe.

[Agent0042]

Some of the sidequests were definitely good, particularly the hunt. I liked how the game offered the same sort of freedom of movement seen in Final Fantasy X-2. Gate Crystals were a good idea. Yeah, some of the story was a bit weak, but there were some things to like it. And there were some characters who I came to enjoy, particularly Basch and Larsa. Also, I completely agree that some of the battles could be quite challenging and required some real strategy.

[Song_Of_Silence]

As far as the battle system not making sense with the plot, Bathier should've been noted to break the rules and not use a licence instead of simply leaving you to guess. That way It would've seemed as though they tried to make his occupation make sense with the licensing system.

Another example of the battle system really not making sense with the plot is Kingdom Hearts chain of memories.

Sora needs cards to attack since all of his memories are stored in the cards. I personally think that you're not going to forget how to swing a blade. They should've made all of his special skills in cards since you'll probably going to forget how to swing one expertly. But to just simply attack--which he does on field without the assistance of cards...Yeah. That just doesn't coincide.

And me not wanting to play the game Wolfmaster913(by the way your question wasn't rude^^) is simply because I the plot doesn't interest me. I would get to a point where I would be to busy finding the flaws in the game than simply enjoying it. So I'd much rather see the good in the game from an unbiased, source such as you guys.

I've never been one for politics and corrupt hopeless governments. I also hate stories where the 'gods' come into play and they're made out to be total assholes, and there's no one to stop them. I mean in reality who can go up against a legion of gods anyways.

[A Little Bit Dramatic]

Admittedly, when I first read a sort of plot synopsis I wasn't interested at all, but I was given the game as a present and gave it a go. I ended up enjoying it alot - regardless of the 'sketchy' plot in parts, some characters were great and as already mentioned, the sheer size of this game and all the extra content has great gameplay value, especially the Hunts and the optional Espers.

[wolfmaster913]

That makes sense, Song_Of_Silence. I have played games where I simply stopped playing because of all of the flaws I found.

As for Balthier having to use the license board, they had to do that. In my opinion, if they had let him go without using it, he would have been completely overpowered. Being able to use any weapon at the very beginning of the game just takes out all of the fun of leveling people up so you can see what they do. I prefer to think of it like Ceidwad said, the licenses are just to represent the confidence needed to use that weapon.

[Ceidwad]

As far as the battle system not making sense with the plot, Bathier should've been noted to break the rules and not use a licence instead of simply leaving you to guess. That way It would've seemed as though they tried to make his occupation make sense with the licensing system.

Another example of the battle system really not making sense with the plot is Kingdom Hearts chain of memories.

Sora needs cards to attack since all of his memories are stored in the cards. I personally think that you're not going to forget how to swing a blade.

They should've made all of his special skills in cards since you'll probably going to forget how to swing one expertly. But to just simply attack--which he does on field without the assistance of cards...Yeah. That just doesn't coincide.

No offence, but that really is clutching at straws. Little inconsistencies like that are in pretty much any fantasy/RPG game going. I could almost certainly name at least one in every single game I've played that involves combat. That's what makes them fantasy games. If little issues like that put you off FFXII, you're probably not going to enjoy many games.

I've never been one for politics and corrupt hopeless governments. I also hate stories where the 'gods' come into play and they're made out to be total assholes, and there's no one to stop them. I mean in reality who can go up against a legion of gods anyways.

The gods of Ivalice aren't infallible, and you only go up against one of them, anyway, Venat. Plus, you have the help of loads of other Occuria as well as Espers (demi-gods) and magic stones which are basically combined more than enough to take down one god.

Aside from all that, your characters don't go head-to-head with the gods, they just defeat Vayne, a mortal, and foil his plans. Nothing implausible there. I for one felt that, compared to other FFs, your characters' power was scaled down to a refreshingly realistic level. Not like in other FFs where they were able to actually face up to gods on their own.

As far as the political elements of the story are concerned, I can't really say much there. If you didn't like it, that's simply your issue. I enjoyed it myself, it made a change from the by now fairly formulaic FF pattern of 'good guy has grudge against bad guy, grudge becomes ever more epic and boils down to a big massive 'save the world' scenario, during which the good guy finds true love with some woman he picked up along the way'. The one thing you could indisputably say about FFXII's story was that it went a different way from previous FFs. I think that, had the characters recieved more dialogue overall, especially in some appropriate places, the story would have been pretty great. Regardless of lack of dialogue, I still think it's solid compared to previous games in the series.

[Song_Of_Silence]

Lol. Ceidwad the whole 'he falls in love with some chick he picks up along the way' thing is pretty funny and sadly enough true.

In a video game of course there will always be something that you don't like. But the question is, are those problems at a minimum. I also find it devastatingly unrealistic that in alot of games where a special power comes into play, the enemy never seems to have one of their own.

The only exception was FFX where Seymour actually had his own aeon that he would use against you. So tell me guys. Why did you like the plot?

Go into complete detail as to why you enjoyed it. I know sometimes the plot can be to developed or totally underdeveloped. And then there are those good ones that go inbetween.

Games about war and politics have never really interested me since they're so close to real life. I play and like fantasy games to escape that, not to jump head first into it. And why is it that one small group of people alone is enough to take down the whole corrupt system? Why them is specific? You know just ask yourself these questions...

[Agent0042]

I also find it devastatingly unrealistic that in alot of games where a special power comes into play, the enemy never seems to have one of their own.

The only exception was FFX where Seymour actually had his own aeon that he would use against you.

The only exception? Ultimecia could junction with Griever. Kuja was the only character in Final Fantasy IX who could use Ultima, etc. etc....

[Song_Of_Silence]

Yeah that's true. Good catch agent...
But that still doesn't explain what you like about 12...
lol.

[Agent0042]

I already explained what I like about XII. It's late at night, and I don't have any interest in going into anymore detail right now. Maybe some other time...

[Song_Of_Silence]

I already explained what I like about XII. It's late at night, and I don't have any interest in going into anymore detail right now. Maybe some other time...

That's fine with me. What about the rest of you guys?(the ones that didn't already go into detail.)

What did you like and dislike most?

[Ceidwad]

I guess I might type out a reply about why I like the plot later. Might be on the weekend, as it's likely to be quite long and frankly I don't have the energy for it right now.

I will answer this question though:

And why is it that one small group of people alone is enough to take down the whole corrupt system? Why them in specific?

A small group of people are enough to take down the corrupt system because the corrupt system is itself sustained by a similarly small group of people. There was nothing particularly corrupt about the Empire itself, per se, merely Vayne and some of the Judges, such as Judge Ghis, Judge Bergan, Doctor Cid, and (for a certain amount of the game) Judge Gabranth. Take out those guys and there's nothing particularly sinister about the Empire.

As for why them in specific, well apart from Vaan, Fran and Penelo, all the main characters and guests have a good reason for opposing the aforementioned corrupt figures (even if Balthier's reasons do not become apparent until later in the plot), and as per their backstories would likely have some knowledge of the politics involved (Balthier because

Spoiler!

he used to be a Judge

, Ashe because of her former status as Princess of Dalmasca, Basch because of his years as a top ranking knight in the Dalmascan army, Larsa because he is the son of the Emperor, etc.). Therefore, they have both the motivation and the means to take down the system.

[Song_Of_Silence]

Thanks Ceidwad. That totally clarifies that for this game!^^
I really can't vouch for other games though...
And that's an interesting realization about Bathier too. Thanks for the info.

[Neg]

Penelo.

No cursing and no unreasonable arguing. Also no name calling. Argue your point in a respectable, mature, fashion.

ROFL