Final Fantasy VII: Overrated?

[Zak]

Would you care to back up that claim with substantial evidence? I liked FFVIII's soundtrack, but I thought FFVII's was better. Yeah, the midi quality was better in VIII, but I thought the overall composition was better in VII. I suggest that our opinions are based on differences of personal preference; if you care to claim otherwise, you are expected to prove it.



True, although I would argue that the overratedness is just spillover from the rabidness of many of FFVII's fans.

Okay, here we go. I can do that, prepare for a mouthful. Since I can't just say "I like this song" and sound like a rabid fanboy, I'll use youtube so I can talk about certain PARTS of certain songs so I can actually back up why this OST is awesome. So bear with me.


-One big thing is I think the FFVIII tracks have longer loops before they start repeating than those on the VII OST, so they probably have a potential to last longer before they get repetitive. There are also a lot more tracks that start with an "intro" that's only played for the first loop and never again. FFVIII's soundtrack tends to have a lot of such introes.

-I've tried to figure out what it is about it, but now I think I know why I love it so much. FFVIII's soundtrack uses a lot of chromatics patterns. If you don't know what that means look it up, but basically a lot of stuff with half notes, and I love anything with that. It would be hard to talk about certain parts of certain songs in just typing. But for instance "Fithos Lusec Wecos Vinosec", I can't think of a single song on the FFVII soundtrack which I like better than that. As far as Chromatics go on that... well, here, I'll use youtube to talk about certain aspects:
[Hidden link. Register to see links.]
0:33-35, those four notes I think pretty much sum up the feel I get from a lot of the songs on VIII's OST.
Also, the whole part from 0:42 to 0:59 is what I mean by the chromatics, as well as other parts in the rest of the song. I can't think of anything on the FFVII soundtrack that gives me a similar feel. Except maybe "The Forested Temple". That's high on my list on the VII soundtrack, but it's no comparison to Fithos or any of it's variations, ESPECIALLY "A Sacrifice", I believe is my favorite variation.
I did mention that my favorite (or second favorite) song on the OST is in fact oddly "Residents", I know that's a bad example since a lot of people don't like it, but I figured since I'm talking about why I like the OST it might as well get a mention.
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Okay, the song pretty much fucks with chromatics in every way possible which is good for me, hell every note is two half notes together, normally they sound like a rusty instrument when you play two half notes at once, but this makes it good. Sounds mysterious and creepy But... 1:09. 'Nuff said.
A lot of other songs on the OST use an awesome set of chromatics.
Also, Premonition! BATTLE theme with chromatics. [Hidden link. Register to see links.] 2:10 FTW. Seriously. I don't believe ANY of the battle themes from FFVII have ANYTHING that sounds remotely like or better than that part.

-Some of these are more musically sound. I'm sorry, I'm a bit tired to back that up, but about Ami. It's got a lot of variations including Balamb Garden which has chromatics as well and a lot of key changes. I'd figure that considering the style of the Ami tracks and how they're used, I'd figure if there's anything to compare them to from VII, it's Aeris' Theme. I find the core Ami tune better than Aeris' Theme, sorry. I don't know if you agree or not, but to me it's a no-brainer, unless you don't think its a fair comparison.
Also, "Truth" very beautiful song, in case you don't know the OST inside out, here it is: [Hidden link. Register to see links.] Are you sure you don't like this OST? :P

-Find Your Way > Chasing the Black Caped Man, it's FFVII counterpart.

-This is sort of like the chromatic arguement, but songs that use fancy instruments and have weird introes are good. Hi "Silence and Motion"! I also like how it changes tone at... one sec... [Hidden link. Register to see links.] ...Aha. 1:48.

-Dance With the Balamb Fish and Waltz For the Moon.... 'nuff said.

-THE CASTLE. NOTHING on FFVII is better than that. Has everything from chromatics, to harmony, to change of key... I could spend a whole few paragraphs on that track alone pointing out random intervals from it's youtube, but I'll save the time. Name something on the FFVII soundtrack you like better than that.

-The Landing is another track I find hard to compare with any FFVII track. Maybe if any "Weapon Raid" another one high on my list. But the loop of Weapon Raid is way too short, and it gets repetitive fast.

-Chase themes. FFVII has "Hurry" and "Hurry Faster" which are alright. FFVIII has two chase themes as well, "Only a Plank Between One and Perdition", which I believe owns the socks off both of those. But to be fair, "Never Look Back" the other one, fails to deliver as much as the VII ones, not gonna lie.

-Okay, let's talk about battle music! Okay, I'll say that "Don't Be Afraid" and "Fighting" are pretty even in terms of what they are, but I found myself getting sick of Fighting much faster. But "Force Your Way" is a LOT better than "Still More Fighting" IMO. The Black Mages did a much better rendition of that than SMF as well. As for "special" battle themes... well, I already talked about Premonition, but let's go for the end ones! While I couldn't really care less for "Maybe I'm a Lion" (it's still epic enough, just not compared to the other 2 so I won't talk about it) though, the other two are something. "The Legendary Beast", it's got an awesome intro, no denying that. It's the one that plays during the first battle with Griever, and starts when he uses Shockwave Pulsar. I find that clever and perfectly timed! The rest of the track itself is decent, I'd say right on par with "The Birth of a God" from FFVII, to be fair.
But... The Extreme... wow. I could probably say a lot more about it than I will here now, but here we go. Here's it's youtube cause I'll be referencing it: [Hidden link. Register to see links.]
So the beginning sounds like not much of a battle theme, it actually sounds like "The Nightmare Begins"! So let's see...
1:23, changes to a more serious diminished tone... just before it picks up and begins sounding like a normal battle theme (the slow part is just the "intro" for the first loop, but that's alright). It's probably my favorite battle theme in the history of FF, not just cause of how it starts slow and picks up.
There's other stuff after it picks up... but aside from the initial catchy tune, there's one particular aspect of it I can't get over. While the fast paced battle theme with the base sounds a lot like "The Birth of God", it completely owns the crap out of "The Birth of God" at 3:25. Managing to go to a more calm tone, and still keep the beat. Goosebumps++

But I will give FFVII credit where it deserves. As far as counterparts go, I did like FFVII's airship theme far better. And same with the map theme, no question at all. I think that's a given. Blue Fields... ick.

Okay... I'm done. For now. Whew!

[Tanis]

Would you care to back up that claim with substantial evidence? I liked FFVIII's soundtrack, but I thought FFVII's was better. Yeah, the midi quality was better in VIII, but I thought the overall composition was better in VII. I suggest that our opinions are based on differences of personal preference; if you care to claim otherwise, you are expected to prove it.



True, although I would argue that the overratedness is just spillover from the rabidness of many of FFVII's fans.

Name an FF soundtrack with a song that went to number 1 in Japan?


Here's a hint, it didn't eat 9.

[Hynad]

There's not really a way to prove that one is better than an other.

It's like saying who was better? Bach or Mozart?


Some have their own ways, criteria, to judge their stuff, but trying to prove something this trivial, like Zak is doing, is quite (sorry to be so blunt) pathetic.

[execrable gumwrapper]

Name an FF soundtrack with a song that went to number 1 in Japan?


Here's a hint, it didn't eat 9.

NICE FALLACY, DICKWEED.

[Zak]

There's not really a way to prove that one is better than an other.

It's like saying who was better? Bach or Mozart?


Some have their own ways, criteria, to judge their stuff, but trying to prove something this trivial, like Zak is doing, is quite (sorry to be so blunt) pathetic.

Well, I'm sorry if long posts are too deep for someone with an attention span such as yourself, but if you notice, Thieves asked me why I like it, I answered. Generally I agree with you about comparing Bach and Mozart, but I was not trying to "prove" it's better (even though the idea of it not being is a ridiculous joke), but I was saying why I prefer it, as Thieves asked.

L2READ.

But really, people actually do bother trying to prove stuff like that all the time, but I guess I can understand a lot being surprised that I actually answered the question. But those who are surprised about that, I'm probably equally surprised as them that people actually can like the FFVII soundtrack better than that of VIII.

But whatever, say what you want, it's Thieves's reply I'm looking forward to.

[execrable gumwrapper]

But whatever, say what you want, it's Thieves's reply I'm looking forward to.

I can easily provide that!

Okay, here we go. I can do that, prepare for a mou(interrupted by massive, godly flatulence.)

Okay... I'm done. For now. Whew!

[Hynad]

Who told you I didn't read all of your shit?

I did, and there was absolutely nothing deep in it whatsoever. Your claim of the opposite is quite laughable considering you expose your big meaningless ego as if you feel coming up with a basic musical term (i.e Chormatics) should make you proud of yourself and expecting no one else know better..


You just said something on the line of : " I like FF VIII's music more because it uses more accelerando", "more themes have ternary", or "because most of them use Nebenstimme".

All of this could describe almost any game music ever created. It doesn't add anything to your argument. You could have wasted a lot less of your worthless time by cutting the "feeling proud of yourself" part and saying : "I like it better because it sounds better to my proud ears". We wouldn't have cared much more, but at least you wouldn't have demonstrated how poorly justified your ego is.

FF VIII's ost is quite varied in style, but for the most part, everything is in pastorale mode.

You fail to realize that Uematsu uses chromatics in most of the OSTs he creates and more so, in fact, in FF VII ( just a lead to what I'm talking about, which happens to be the best example: JENOVA).

You tried to look intelligent by throwing a basic musical term in the mix, but seriously, you didn't sound any different than if you said "I like this song because I think it's good".


Tell me again, where was the deep part from your stupid noob elaboration?

[Zak]

Okay, name five songs from FFVII that do it. I can only think of a total of two. And I was not trying to look 'intelligent' by saying that FFVII's soundtrack lacks in that, compared to VIII, which it does.

But you'll probably claim it's "not worth your time" to name them, as your way of covering up that you can't think of one.

Also what sort of answer would you have given to thieves' question? Some lameass one-line "I thought X was better", when at least I actually say why? I'm sorry Hynad, but that is very different than saying what, and your attempt to look intelligent by trying to claim that it's the same also fails. In fact, until you name some yourself I'll find it hard to take any of your posts on the subject seriously.

EDIT: And also I was talking about a lot more than chromatics! Again, L2READ!

EDIT2: Okay, you've edited since I replied, but your arguement doesn't make sense as to how it would have been the same if I said that.

[FF1WithAllThieves]

Okay, here we go. I can do that, prepare for a mouthful. Since I can't just say "I like this song" and sound like a rabid fanboy, I'll use youtube so I can talk about certain PARTS of certain songs so I can actually back up why this OST is awesome. So bear with me.

Alright, since you whipped it out...

-One big thing is I think the FFVIII tracks have longer loops before they start repeating than those on the VII OST, so they probably have a potential to last longer before they get repetitive. There are also a lot more tracks that start with an "intro" that's only played for the first loop and never again. FFVIII's soundtrack tends to have a lot of such introes.

While this is true in some cases, what about, say, the world map themes? FFVII's is far longer than FFVIII's.

-I've tried to figure out what it is about it, but now I think I know why I love it so much. FFVIII's soundtrack uses a lot of chromatics patterns. If you don't know what that means look it up, but basically a lot of stuff with half notes, and I love anything with that.

I think you mean "half steps." And, being a music theory major, I do know a little bit about chromaticism. Here's a fun example of it:

[Hidden link. Register to see links.]
[QUOTE]

It would be hard to talk about certain parts of certain songs in just typing. But for instance "Fithos Lusec Wecos Vinosec", I can't think of a single song on the FFVII soundtrack which I like better than that. As far as Chromatics go on that... well, here, I'll use youtube to talk about certain aspects:
[Hidden link. Register to see links.]
0:33-35, those four notes I think pretty much sum up the feel I get from a lot of the songs on VIII's OST.
Also, the whole part from 0:42 to 0:59 is what I mean by the chromatics, as well as other parts in the rest of the song. I can't think of anything on the FFVII soundtrack that gives me a similar feel. Except maybe "The Forested Temple".

That's the old standard 5-flat6-6-flat6 motion above a minor triad, perhaps most famously appearing in...
[Hidden link. Register to see links.]

As a matter of fact, "The Forested Temple" is the exact same chord progression. George Gershwin used it as well. What's superior in "Fithos" relative to "The Forested Temple," other than the midi quality? I like them each about the same.[QUOTE]

I did mention that my favorite (or second favorite) song on the OST is in fact oddly "Residents", I know that's a bad example since a lot of people don't like it, but I figured since I'm talking about why I like the OST it might as well get a mention.
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Okay, the song pretty much fucks with chromatics in every way possible which is good for me, hell every note is two half notes together, normally they sound like a rusty instrument when you play two half notes at once, but this makes it good. Sounds mysterious and creepy But... 1:09. 'Nuff said.

[Hidden link. Register to see links.]

Here the ostinato (repeated) pattern at the beginning? It's the same thing, you're talking about, only it's not as jazzy. Uematsu reuses a lot of ideas in his game scores. I like "The Residents" as well, but I don't think that's quite grounds for saying that FFVIII has a better soundtrack than FFVII.

A lot of other songs on the OST use an awesome set of chromatics.
Also, Premonition! BATTLE theme with chromatics. [Hidden link. Register to see links.] 2:10 FTW. Seriously. I don't believe ANY of the battle themes from FFVII have ANYTHING that sounds remotely like or better than that part.

I like the intro, which is mostly diatonic (within the key, also "not chromatic"), as a matter of fact. The chromaticism in the part you're referring to is mostly passing (not part of the chord). I like the way it sounds, too, but what about, the nice little common-tone augmented sixth chord in "JENOVA" about 6 seconds into it?

[Hidden link. Register to see links.]

-Some of these are more musically sound. I'm sorry, I'm a bit tired to back that up, but about Ami. It's got a lot of variations including Balamb Garden which has chromatics as well and a lot of key changes. I'd figure that considering the style of the Ami tracks and how they're used, I'd figure if there's anything to compare them to from VII, it's Aeris' Theme. I find the core Ami tune better than Aeris' Theme, sorry. I don't know if you agree or not, but to me it's a no-brainer, unless you don't think its a fair comparison.
Also, "Truth" very beautiful song, in case you don't know the OST inside out, here it is: [Hidden link. Register to see links.] Are you sure you don't like this OST? :P

I think it would be more fair to compare it to the "Main Theme" from FFVII, which I prefer to the Ami theme. For instance:

[Hidden link. Register to see links.]

I like the simplicity, with a few mode mixture chords thrown in like the minor subdominant, as well as the chromatic submediant paired with the flat 7 dominant substitute. They appear at the ends of phrases.

-Find Your Way > Chasing the Black Caped Man, it's FFVII counterpart.

I disagree here. The two pieces are meant to convey very different things; FYW has sort of a melancholy, sad sound to it, because the general tone of the game reflects the tragedy of wars. CTBCM, on the other hand, conveys more of a sense that there's something supernatural going on, and that things aren't quite what they seem with the game in general, which is more of what FFVII's plot is based on. I like each for what it's supposed to be, pretty equally.

-This is sort of like the chromatic arguement, but songs that use fancy instruments and have weird introes are good. Hi "Silence and Motion"! I also like how it changes tone at... one sec... [Hidden link. Register to see links.] ...Aha. 1:48.

I think the weird noises are a little bit overdone in this piece, but I like it rather a lot. Its repetitiveness gets a little irritating, though, because Esthar is way too big. That's not really something wrong with the score, though.

-Dance With the Balamb Fish and Waltz For the Moon.... 'nuff said.

Yeah, these tracks are good, but I don't think they're spectacularly good.

-THE CASTLE. NOTHING on FFVII is better than that. Has everything from chromatics, to harmony, to change of key... I could spend a whole few paragraphs on that track alone pointing out random intervals from it's youtube, but I'll save the time. Name something on the FFVII soundtrack you like better than that.

Ah, an Uematsu homage to J.S. Bach. I've gotta post this before I go on:

[Hidden link. Register to see links.]
[Hidden link. Register to see links.]

I am a huge fan of pipe organ music. Listen to this stuff.

Anyway, here's a good example of a track I rather like:

[Hidden link. Register to see links.]

I think the composition is just as good, but again, "The Castle" benefits from much better midi quality. Now, I'll grant you this that an homage to baroque music is destined to be awesome; there isn't a good opportunity to do that.

-The Landing is another track I find hard to compare with any FFVII track. Maybe if any "Weapon Raid" another one high on my list. But the loop of Weapon Raid is way too short, and it gets repetitive fast.

[Hidden link. Register to see links.] (after the intro)
I find this to be a better comparison to "The Landing" although I don't think it's quite as good. Doesn't exactly prove that one game's OST is better than the other, though.

-Chase themes. FFVII has "Hurry" and "Hurry Faster" which are alright. FFVIII has two chase themes as well, "Only a Plank Between One and Perdition", which I believe owns the socks off both of those. But to be fair, "Never Look Back" the other one, fails to deliver as much as the VII ones, not gonna lie.

Gonna have to disagree here. "Only a Plank," to me, sounds cool the first two times through, but after that it just gets annoying to me. Especially when you have to climb to the top of the D District Prison.

-Okay, let's talk about battle music! Okay, I'll say that "Don't Be Afraid" and "Fighting" are pretty even in terms of what they are, but I found myself getting sick of Fighting much faster.

It's exactly the opposite for me. I have fought a lot more battles to "Fighting" and I still haven't gotten sick of it. You unfortunately forgot to mention "The Man With the Machine Gun," which blows both of these two out of the water in my opinion. Pity it doesn't get used enough.

But "Force Your Way" is a LOT better than "Still More Fighting" IMO. The Black Mages did a much better rendition of that than SMF as well.

Agree with you here.

As for "special" battle themes... well, I already talked about Premonition, but let's go for the end ones! While I couldn't really care less for "Maybe I'm a Lion" (it's still epic enough, just not compared to the other 2 so I won't talk about it) though, the other two are something. "The Legendary Beast", it's got an awesome intro, no denying that. It's the one that plays during the first battle with Griever, and starts when he uses Shockwave Pulsar. I find that clever and perfectly timed! The rest of the track itself is decent, I'd say right on par with "The Birth of a God" from FFVII, to be fair.

To be honest, my party was too powerful at this point, so I didn't hear this track for very long.

But... The Extreme... wow. I could probably say a lot more about it than I will here now, but here we go. Here's it's youtube cause I'll be referencing it: [Hidden link. Register to see links.]
So the beginning sounds like not much of a battle theme, it actually sounds like "The Nightmare Begins"! So let's see...

Let's not neglect just how good of a track "The Nightmare Begins" is. That was one of my favorites from FFVII.

1:23, changes to a more serious diminished tone...

Disagree about it getting more serious here; just tonicizes the dominant to build up to the end of the intro.

just before it picks up and begins sounding like a normal battle theme

Makes me feel like I'm about to fight some GrOgres.

(the slow part is just the "intro" for the first loop, but that's alright). It's probably my favorite battle theme in the history of FF, not just cause of how it starts slow and picks up.

Here are my two favorites:

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There's other stuff after it picks up... but aside from the initial catchy tune, there's one particular aspect of it I can't get over. While the fast paced battle theme with the base sounds a lot like "The Birth of God", it completely owns the crap out of "The Birth of God" at 3:25. Managing to go to a more calm tone, and still keep the beat. Goosebumps++

It's good, and certainly better than "One Winged Angel," but I still liked FFVII's overall soundtrack better.

But I will give FFVII credit where it deserves. As far as counterparts go, I did like FFVII's airship theme far better. And same with the map theme, no question at all. I think that's a given. Blue Fields... ick.

Definitely agree here.

Okay... I'm done. For now. Whew!

In the end, though, it still seems to come down to personal preference, especially because they're so similar in style (a common effect of being composed by the same guy). Now...

I did, and there was absolutely nothing deep in it whatsoever. Your claim of the opposite is quite laughable considering you expose your big meaningless ego as if you feel coming up with a basic musical term (i.e Chormatics) should make you proud of yourself and expecting no one else know better..

I'm one of the biggest musical snobs I know, and I'M appalled at this level of condescension. So he didn't go to music school and learn the music theory behind what he likes in music. If you need to belittle somebody who's been too busy with the rest of his life to learn the finer points of music to feed your own sense of musicianship, then you're probably one of those douchebags that can't perform on his instrument.

Seriously though, you don't need to be so abrasive.

You just said something on the line of : " I like FF VIII's music more because it uses more accelerando", "more themes have ternary", or "because most of them use Nebenstimme".

Nebenstimme? What, would it have Sprechstimme in there?

All of this could describe almost any game music ever created. It doesn't add anything to your argument. You could have wasted a lot less of your worthless time by cutting the "feeling proud of yourself" part and saying : "I like it better because it sounds better to my proud ears". We wouldn't have cared much more, but at least you wouldn't have demonstrated how poorly justified your ego is.

He wants to discuss details of music. Rather than just sitting there and "being better than he is," why don't you try to make connections and demonstrate what about the music creates the affects he's describing?

FF VIII's ost is quite varied in style, but for the most part, everything is in pastorale mode.

Like all the techno-sounding music in it? This comment makes no sense.

You fail to realize that Uematsu uses chromatics in most of the OSTs he creates and more so, in fact, in FF VII ( just a lead to what I'm talking about, which happens to be the best example: JENOVA).

Would sound a lot more like a legitimate point if you didn't feel the need to begin with "you fail." Just makes you sound like a pompous ass.

You tried to look intelligent by throwing a basic musical term in the mix, but seriously, you didn't sound any different than if you said "I like this song because I think it's good".

And what are you doing by demeaning him?

Tell me again, where was the deep part from your stupid noob elaboration?

He at least tried to describe the moods in the music that he liked. Maybe he just likes the music from FFVIII and wanted to discuss its merits? Oh, he doesn't know the terminology that describes 19th century compositional styles, so he isn't worth talking to. Back the hell off and leave this discussion unless you want to offer something substantive rather than bash someone for his horrendous crimes of ignorance.

Edit: Props to Swami for the flatulent interruption.

[doomjockey]

Well that was educational.

[FF1WithAllThieves]

If you let me, I will go on about music theory for hours.

[execrable gumwrapper]

And flatulence!

[Zak]

Alright, since you whipped it out...


While this is true in some cases, what about, say, the world map themes? FFVII's is far longer than FFVIII's.

/points to bottom of post.

I think you mean "half steps." And, being a music theory major, I do know a little bit about chromaticism. Here's a fun example of it:

[Hidden link. Register to see links.]

Half steps! Yeah, that's the word I was looking for, and yeah that example is pretty much what I mean.

That's the old standard 5-flat6-6-flat6 motion above a minor triad, perhaps most famously appearing in...
[Hidden link. Register to see links.]

As a matter of fact, "The Forested Temple" is the exact same chord progression. George Gershwin used it as well. What's superior in "Fithos" relative to "The Forested Temple," other than the midi quality? I like them each about the same.

The midi quality yes, but while the progression is similar, Fithos has other parts as well than the one I described, like a drastic change of key, and the loop is almost twice as long as that of The Forested Temple, so to me it's a little superior.

[Hidden link. Register to see links.]

Here the ostinato (repeated) pattern at the beginning? It's the same thing, you're talking about, only it's not as jazzy. Uematsu reuses a lot of ideas in his game scores. I like "The Residents" as well, but I don't think that's quite grounds for saying that FFVIII has a better soundtrack than FFVII.

Holy shit, I complete forgot about Honeybee Inn, you're right, it does use that. I should add that to my repertoire when I get a chance. It's good, and does feel like a lot of the FFVIII tracks... but I prefer Residents.

I like the intro, which is mostly diatonic (within the key, also "not chromatic"), as a matter of fact. The chromaticism in the part you're referring to is mostly passing (not part of the chord). I like the way it sounds, too, but what about, the nice little common-tone augmented sixth chord in "JENOVA" about 6 seconds into it?

[Hidden link. Register to see links.]

Augmented chords are indeed a plus. But yeah, perhaps it was the wrong choice of words. In Premonition the part I was talking about involves a drastic change of key as well. I know exactly where you're referring to in JENOVA after the beginning repeats four times, and yeah. Also while it does have a short loop it's got one of the best end of a loop out there as well.

I think it would be more fair to compare it to the "Main Theme" from FFVII, which I prefer to the Ami theme. For instance:

[Hidden link. Register to see links.]

I like the simplicity, with a few mode mixture chords thrown in like the minor subdominant, as well as the chromatic submediant paired with the flat 7 dominant substitute. They appear at the ends of phrases.

First of all that is actually "Holding My Thoughts in My Heart". It's definitely more competition for the Ami theme. I guess you're right in saying that it would be more fair to compare them, because out of those two it's hard to choose.

I disagree here. The two pieces are meant to convey very different things; FYW has sort of a melancholy, sad sound to it, because the general tone of the game reflects the tragedy of wars. CTBCM, on the other hand, conveys more of a sense that there's something supernatural going on, and that things aren't quite what they seem with the game in general, which is more of what FFVII's plot is based on. I like each for what it's supposed to be, pretty equally.

They're both the game's cave/forest themes, that's why I compared them. I guess that's an interesting way of looking at it.

I think the weird noises are a little bit overdone in this piece, but I like it rather a lot. Its repetitiveness gets a little irritating, though, because Esthar is way too big. That's not really something wrong with the score, though.

You know that after the invasion, it never plays in Esthar ever again for the rest of the game, it's replaced by "Only a Plank" or something. You only really hear it once, the first time you're visiting Esthar, so it's not like it outdoes itself. After that, the only place you'll hear it again is in Laguna's office.

Yeah, these tracks are good, but I don't think they're spectacularly good.

I pointed them out because there isn't really anything on VII I can really compare it too... it's it's own Uematsu-genre.

Ah, an Uematsu homage to J.S. Bach. I've gotta post this before I go on:

[Hidden link. Register to see links.]
[Hidden link. Register to see links.]

I am a huge fan of pipe organ music. Listen to this stuff.

Anyway, here's a good example of a track I rather like:

[Hidden link. Register to see links.]

I think the composition is just as good, but again, "The Castle" benefits from much better midi quality. Now, I'll grant you this that an homage to baroque music is destined to be awesome; there isn't a good opportunity to do that.

There we go... I wasn't sure if it actually was an homage or just a coincidence, but I was playing on my iPod the piano collection version of this and my roommate thought it was Bach, go figure.

Also I'm listening to the links you posted right now, good shit. But speaking of pipe organ music, just a random question, I know it's a shitty example but what is your opinion on "Heresy"?

[Hidden link. Register to see links.] (after the intro)
I find this to be a better comparison to "The Landing" although I don't think it's quite as good. Doesn't exactly prove that one game's OST is better than the other, though.

Ah, I forgot about O-BM. That's one of my favorites on VII as well and you're actually right that it's more comparable. But of course no song ALONE proves that an OST is better. But yes it's still no "Landing".

Gonna have to disagree here. "Only a Plank," to me, sounds cool the first two times through, but after that it just gets annoying to me. Especially when you have to climb to the top of the D District Prison.

Well, "Hurry" is barely anything, but "Hurry Faster" may be comparable but I have the same problem with it as the one you described above. Got sick of it when spending hours in the Gold Saucer Arena, so I guess it's the same reason as you. But I enjoyed having "Only a Plank" as the battle music when fighting Ultima Weapon.

It's exactly the opposite for me. I have fought a lot more battles to "Fighting" and I still haven't gotten sick of it.

Well, that's something... no comment there.

You unfortunately forgot to mention "The Man With the Machine Gun," which blows both of these two out of the water in my opinion. Pity it doesn't get used enough.

Wow, I didn't mention it?! I know I was thinking about it while making the post before I'd gotten to the subject of battle music, I guess it went over my head by the time I reached it.

To be honest, my party was too powerful at this point, so I didn't hear this track for very long.

Well, have a listen then. [Hidden link. Register to see links.] I'd recommend giving the entire loop a chance, tell me what you think, I'm curious. Loop ends at 3:24.
Mine was too, on both playthroughs. But on the second one I decided to pay close attention to the final battle music, so I prolonged the battle. About the party being to powerful, this has the same problem as FFX's "Decisive Battle". It's a phenomonal track, except it's only played when you're fighting Yu Yevon, just Yu Yevon, not even the summons, it only starts playing after the aeons are all defeated, and the whole loop for it isn't even half over by the time the average person wins that battle, so it's very overlooked.

Let's not neglect just how good of a track "The Nightmare Begins" is. That was one of my favorites from FFVII.

Who's neglecting? I love The Nightmare Begins.

Disagree about it getting more serious here; just tonicizes the dominant to build up to the end of the intro.

That's actually a better way to describe it, building up to the end of the intro...

Makes me feel like I'm about to fight some GrOgres.

I'd have to know what those are to comment.

Here are my two favorites:

[Hidden link. Register to see links.]
[Hidden link. Register to see links.]

I actually haven't played any of the classics except for VI, though I do plan on it. So my favorite one is bound to change. I only played VI once, I start judging the OST usually on my second or third playthrough which I do plan on as well. Though I am familiar with some battle themes from some ones I have yet to play because I listened to them to see what the hype was about. Take "Clash on the Big Bridge" for instance, I have that on repeat now. All four versions of it (V, Black Mages, Piano Collections, and XII).

It's good, and certainly better than "One Winged Angel," but I still liked FFVII's overall soundtrack better.

k.

In the end, though, it still seems to come down to personal preference, especially because they're so similar in style (a common effect of being composed by the same guy). Now...

I guess it does, but this has been an interesting discussion. I actually have not even taken music theory yet, but I do plan to next semester and was even thinking of changing my major to it. I've just been playing an instrument for 10 years so all I know is what I picked up from that. But it's better than arguing with an average VII fanboy.

I'm one of the biggest musical snobs I know, and I'M appalled at this level of condescension. So he didn't go to music school and learn the music theory behind what he likes in music. If you need to belittle somebody who's been too busy with the rest of his life to learn the finer points of music to feed your own sense of musicianship, then you're probably one of those douchebags that can't perform on his instrument.

Seriously though, you don't need to be so abrasive.

That's just how he is, he probably just had a shitty day and was looking for someone to take it out on. If you've seen this guy's posts then you'd know that's most likely the case.

He wants to discuss details of music. Rather than just sitting there and "being better than he is," why don't you try to make connections and demonstrate what about the music creates the affects he's describing?

Haha I just asked him to do the same thing, but I guess after this post he'll probably be embarrassed to show his face in this thread. I wouldn't blame him, after displaying his idiocy for all to see. Too bad he can't delete his post in shame. :P Given those circumstances that's probably what I'd do in his place. Either way he must be feeling pretty stupid to see that you actually replied.

Edit: Props to Swami for the flatulent interruption.

Amen.

[Tanis]

holy CRAP!

[Zak]

BTW, Thieves, do you play anything? just wondering.

[FF1WithAllThieves]

Yeah, I'm a pianist. You have to play an instrument and take four years of lessons from a faculty member to be a music major.

[DE GRANDE FREAK]

Might I say something?
BOOOOOOOORRRRRRRRRIIIIIIINNNNNNNNGGGGG!

[Zak]

Yeah, I'm a pianist. You have to play an instrument and take four years of lessons from a faculty member to be a music major.

As am I. Though I bet I could [Hidden link. Register to see links.] you. Seriously though do you have a repertoire with that? Just wondering...

[DE GRANDE FREAK]

too many arguments! Quit ARGUING! OH MY GAWD!

[Zak]

too many arguments! Quit ARGUING! OH MY GAWD!

too many SPEDs! Quit POSTING! OH MY GAWD!

[DE GRANDE FREAK]

you are really starting to tick me off...and i am not in a good mood right now...

[Zak]

Not posting would be the best solution.

[DE GRANDE FREAK]

But I havent been on in WEEKS! and im making up for lost time....so its
like giving everyone a gift!

[Zak]

But I havent been on in WEEKS!

See? You already gave everyone the best gift anyone could ask of you!

[FF1WithAllThieves]

As am I. Though I bet I could [Hidden link. Register to see links.] you. Seriously though do you have a repertoire with that? Just wondering...

Well, the stuff I can play I mostly learned by ear. I arranged "Fighting" for an ensemble of saxophones back in high school, though. I usually just sit down and play something by ear when I want to or when I'm asked to; I don't really have an expansive repertoire.