Great Scores In Bad Movies

[marcorea1]

Though this would make an interesting thread.
For many years composers have created a fantastic score for a really poor movie. Scores play a huge part (almost like a character) in a movie and help create many emotions such as sadness, happiness, love etc.

I always thought King Artur was a really bad movie but Zimmer created fantastic score.

Also Goldsmith with a LOT of poor films made a great score. Supergirl, First Knight, Rambo 2 and 3. The list is endless with him.

Now lets hear some of your choices and opinions on this!!!!

[benuit]

Jerr Goldsmith = First Blood Part 2, Rambo III, ...
Basil Poledouris = The Blue Lagoon, Return to the Blue Lagoon, Conan The Destroyer, ...
James Horner = Battle Beyond The Stars, Project Brainstorm
John Barry = The Black Hole, Hanover Street
Elliot Goldenthal = Batman Forever, Batman And Robin, Final Fantasy
Elmer Bernstein = Gangs Of New York, Natty Gunn, The Magnificent Seven Sequels
Bill Conti = North And South, Rocky V
...

[docrate1]

Alexandre Desplat: Twilight chapter 2.
Graeme Revell: Street Fighter

[JonC]

Hands down,
Jerry Goldsmith - Star Trek: the Motion Picture. My favorite score and a bad, bad movie.
I actually liked Battle Beyond the Stars, it's like a finely aged cheese.
However, I would also add:
The Black Hole, Buck Rogers, Conan The Barbarian, Gundam 0083: Stardust Memory, and Odin: Photon Sailer Starlight.
JonC

[docrate1]

Hands down,
Jerry Goldsmith - Star Trek: the Motion Picture. My favorite score and a bad, bad movie.
I actually liked Battle Beyond the Stars, it's like a finely aged cheese.
However, I would also add:
The Black Hole, Buck Rogers, Conan The Barbarian, Gundam 0083: Stardust Memory, and Odin: Photon Sailer Starlight.
JonC

Can't agree with you on Conan. Great score, great movie (at the time. it didn't age very well, though. I'll give you that...). Conan the destroyer is far worse as far as the "great score bad movie" equation goes.

[N-12_Aden]

The Starship Troopers 2 score was pretty good.

The Grudge (American Version) was also very effective.

I know its been said before but, Jerry Goldsmith: Rambo First Blood Part 2.

And Neg is going to have a seizure, but the Matrix Reloaded and Revolutions are part of this.

[docrate1]

The Starship Troopers 2 score was pretty good.

The Grudge (American Version) was also very effective.

I know its been said before but, Jerry Goldsmith: Rambo First Blood Part 2.

And Neg is going to have a seizure, but the Matrix Reloaded and Revolutions are part of this.

For a strange reason I've always preferred the score and soundtrack to the 3rd rambo than to the second. maybe it's because it was the first I saw (and, it seems, my first contact with Jerry Goldsmith...).

I'll raise you with Universal Soldier 2, The Punisher (all 3 movies had really good scores, but I've never really considered the Lundgren one to be a "bad movie". it has been slaughtered in the editing room...), the last starfighter (Safan), On deadly ground (Poledouris), and I could go on and on and on...

[k_bacon]

Jeff Danna's score to Resident Evil: Apocalypse. The movie sucked, the score is rather obscure, but a personal favourite of mine.

[JonC]

Can't agree with you on Conan. Great score, great movie (at the time. it didn't age very well, though. I'll give you that...). Conan the destroyer is far worse as far as the "great score bad movie" equation goes.

Did it age, or did you age?
Or to put it another way, have films changed since then, or have your tastes?
I'm not actually hostile to it, it's just the size of the gap between the film and the score.

And Neg is going to have a seizure, but the Matrix Reloaded and Revolutions are part of this.

I have issues with all the Matrix films, love all the scores, but as a film, I actually found (contrary to the opinion of, well, everybody,) that the first was actually the weakest. A beautifully wrapped empty box. But such, beautiful, beautiful wrapping...
JonC

[benuit]

Alexandre Desplat: Twilight chapter 2

Agreed.

Conan The Barbarian

I can't agree. What a fantastic movie.

[ROKUSHO]

carriers.
average movie, main theme almost made me cry

[k_bacon]

Another one: The Crow: Wicked Prayer by Jamie Christopherson. Great, great score, almost rivals Revell's score for the original in intensity.

[Lyedecker]

i'd say at least half of anything barry or goldsmith did falls in this category

---------- Post added at 02:39 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:39 PM ----------

poledouris - cherry 2000 is another one

[JonC]

When you think about it, since composers are hired guns who have no control over the quality of the films they score, it is inevitable that no matter which composer you love, more of their films will suck than be good.
JonC

[Lyedecker]

yeah. ultimately they still gotta get paid so they're gonna go with some projects they're not proud of.

sometimes they're mislead about the quality of a film.

barry thought starcrash was gonna be a high budget sci fi film like star wars, instead it turned out to be a cardboard background spaghetti rip off

[docrate1]

i'd say at least half of anything barry or goldsmith did falls in this category

---------- Post added at 02:39 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:39 PM ----------

poledouris - cherry 2000 is another one

Goldsmith: Leviathan.
Safan: Freddy 5
Revell: Hard Target
Beltrami: The Crow salvation
Debney: The Relic
Kamen: The three musketeers
Horner: Star Trek III
Ennio Morricone: Red Sonja.

that last one is a killer. I'm sure Ennio must have been pissed when he finally saw the movie.

[Lyedecker]

goldsmith...trek 5 is another big one.

-----------------------------------------

what would be really interesting is a thread for bad scores to awesome movies

---------- Post added at 06:07 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:02 PM ----------

craig safan - the last starfighter AND remo williams

2 very underrated scores

opinions vary on the quality of the film but maurice jarre's score for enemy mine is golden

also like his mad max beyond thunderdome score, though that film's not THAT bad

plus, john williams work for the SW prequels

[docrate1]

craig safan - the last starfighter AND remo williams

2 very underrated scores

You just got some rep because of that statement. Last starfighter is one of my all time favorite scores, and one I listen to nearly daily. As for Remo Williams...I was a bit perplex at first but it grew on me and I eventually managed to snatched the perseverance CD online for a reasonnable price (in other words: less than 15€).

opinions vary on the quality of the film but maurice jarre's score for enemy mine is golden

also like his mad max beyond thunderdome score, though that film's not THAT bad

plus, john williams work for the SW prequels

Especially WIlliams work on the Phantom Derpnace. As for Maurice Jarre, I've never heard his score for Enemy Mine, nor have I seen the movie. I find Thunderdome rather meh, I prefer May's score to the second Mad Max. but "Road Warrior" not being a bad movie, it doesn't qualify for this thread.

I forgot one, and I find myself stupid for that: Fantastic Four by John Ottman.

[morpheus34]

Jeff Danna's score to Resident Evil: Apocalypse. The movie sucked, the score is rather obscure, but a personal favourite of mine.

Indeed,
that's a great one although hardly anybody talks about it...

[Lyedecker]

For a strange reason I've always preferred the score and soundtrack to the 3rd rambo than to the second. maybe it's because it was the first I saw (and, it seems, my first contact with Jerry Goldsmith...).

I'll raise you with Universal Soldier 2, The Punisher (all 3 movies had really good scores, but I've never really considered the Lundgren one to be a "bad movie". it has been slaughtered in the editing room...), the last starfighter (Safan), On deadly ground (Poledouris), and I could go on and on and on...

meant to rep you for post regarding brian may and mad max. oh well

[JonC]

goldsmith...trek 5 is another big one.

I didn't include that one because the score was not as good, nor the film is as bad (but only barely,) than STMP.

plus, john williams work for the SW prequels

I don't consider Phantom Menace to be bad, certainly not compared with say, Starcrash, but it is the weakest, and yes, that does include the Clone Wars feature. But it also has a really, really good score, so yeah, I agree it belongs on the list.

what would be really interesting is a thread for bad scores to awesome movies

The hard part is that a really bad score would be so distracting from the film that it would be hard to say that it was a great film. I think you might have more ground with great films with utterly forgettable scores. (An important distinction.)
JonC

[Lyedecker]

I didn't include that one because the score was not as good, nor the film is as bad (but only barely,) than STMP.


I don't consider Phantom Menace to be bad, certainly not compared with say, Starcrash, but it is the weakest, and yes, that does include the Clone Wars feature. But it also has a really, really good score, so yeah, I agree it belongs on the list.


The hard part is that a really bad score would be so distracting from the film that it would be hard to say that it was a great film. I think you might have more ground with great films with utterly forgettable scores. (An important distinction.)
JonC

i think V was among goldsmith's best work from his late 80's-early 90's phase. the movie isn't as horrible as many say, but the ratio of score awesomeness to film shitiness is enough for me to include it.

same for phantom menace and attack of the clones, though i enjoyed revenge of the sith as a film (the score was also the best of the prequels, imho)

---------- Post added at 11:07 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:05 AM ----------

you're right on forgettable score vs bad scores in great films. if a score is shite, it automatically lowers my opinion of the overall film. i liked mozart and the whale but the score really got on my nerves

[k_bacon]

Interestingly, when I think about the vice versa, I immediately think of two Christopher Nolan Flicks. Inception...holdonholdonHOLDON! - Inception, I wouldn't call a bad score, but in proportion to how much I enjoyed the movie, the score didn't hold a candle. Have to check it out on album though. The REAL Nolan stinker, however, is Prestige. I would go as far as to call it a non-score, it's so utterly devoid of any remarkable quality that it almost fades out of existence. Surprisingly, David Julyan also did the awesome The Descent. A fine example of a great movie AND a great score, BTW. To get back to topic, The Descent 2 would qualify, if it hadn't been the virtually the same score as the first one. On another note... I heard Priest as a movie sucked, but I love Christopher Young's score for the flick.

[JonC]

This gets back to the argument I had on the Orchestral thread, the quality of a score having 'appropriateness.' That is, that the most important quality a film score should have is how it supports the film experience, not how it sounds when you are listening to it alone. I cannot begin to list the moments in films where the music works perfectly, but only in the context of the film. Heard on its own, it's not nearly as interesting. (An example can be heard by listening to different versions of 'Concerning Hobbits,' the album version being a much better listening experience (for me anyway,) than the recording sessions, which has the music as it is actually heard in the film.
JonC

[k_bacon]

@JonC: Indeed. It really is kinda unfair to criticize a score for not working outside of the movie. I can also really think of only a handful of cases where the score is so bad it inherently damages the movie. The score for the Babylon 5 spinoff Crusade springs to mind. I think it's a curse of a film music fan, who has an ear on the score every time he/she watches a movie. It also has led to many occasions where I watched a bad movie, talked with other people about it and said: "But the soundtrack was great!" ...which was usually met with irritation by those who don't pay special attention to the score in a movie.