PDA

View Full Version : Ok... Been thinking about giving this a second try..



Darth Revan
05-19-2010, 07:31 PM
In numerous threads here, I think I have made it clear I dislike this game. However, as I'm currently bored, I've been rethinking about giving this game a second try.

When I first played it, I finished Chapter Three... then got rid of it as it was just boring and too linear for me to continue. Now, having second thoughts about whether to give this a honest try and finish it before saying if I hate it or if I like it.

Anyone care to offer feedback about what they think of it, and if I should give it another shot, or leave it.

RAMChYLD
05-19-2010, 07:42 PM
I'd say, give it a second try and just grind to make it through. And treat the game as one long movie with interactive breaks between segments instead of a game- it helps. Once you make it to Chapter 11 or so, the game will break out the huge sandbox world that's Gran Pulse and things will get better.

To help make it through the chapters until Gran Pulse, use a walkthrough. I'm doing that, although my reason for that is that I'm pedantic and fear that I'll miss out hidden treasure chests.

Scryer
05-19-2010, 08:29 PM
And treat the game as one long movie with interactive breaks between segments instead of a game- it helps.

I second this and recommend this to any gamer that wants to play FFXIII. I'm pretty sure that the producers were aware that they were producing a game that is a little more movie-like than game-like.

Neg
05-19-2010, 08:31 PM
Plot doesn't start rolling til Ch 10, bro. It's not a sandbox, Ram. It's not even that big. Pretty linear besides getting to do missions and such.

RAMChYLD
05-19-2010, 09:57 PM
Plot doesn't start rolling til Ch 10, bro. It's not a sandbox, Ram. It's not even that big. Pretty linear besides getting to do missions and such.
K. Although well, you can already ignore the main story and do the mission by then. But then, I'm not there yet. Right now I'm just about to start with Chapter 9.

chewey
05-20-2010, 03:37 AM
Despite what people often say, the game doesn't pick up all that much at chapter 11.

Like Neg said, the story sort of picks up around chapter 10 (pretty sure that's the one anyway). At the very least, that's when it sorts itself.

It's worth another shot, I guess.

Scryer
05-20-2010, 12:55 PM
At the very least, that's when it sorts itself.

This is the only thing that I agree with in regards to the whole "The story picks up around chapter X" complaints.

The game is very linear but the storyline is not. If the story was linear it would have started us off in Bodhum or some other place before the Purge takes place. So I wouldn't say that the story picks up around chapter 10; instead, the player can piece it together around chapter 10 since the game starts us in the middle of the story. Correct me if I'm wrong, but there are tons of cutscenes on the way to chapter 10 that is part of the plot... If this was a play, we would be just are starting at "Act 3" instead of "Act 1".

So I really don't get how the story picks up around chapter 10. I just see it as starting in the middle and that the player can't clearly piece it all together until chapter 10.

Neg
05-20-2010, 01:06 PM
Chapter 1 to Chapter 10 is just confusion about their focus. Even if I think that was on purpose and is a metaphor for the confusion we have in our lives about what to do with them, that doesn't mean it's not just that.

It's middling about the player's pasts and them going WHAT'S OUR FOCUS, ZOMG DON'T WANT TO TURN TO CI'ETH/CRYSTAL.

I like it, but I can totally see why people hate it.

You're right that it starts in medias res, though.

_Ithildin
05-22-2010, 04:48 AM
Why bother? There's plenty more games out there and tons of them are better. Try Mass Effect 2 or Red Dead Redemption for example. Or if you are looking for a JRPG thats lots of fun try Monster Hunter Tri, thats what I'm playing right now and it beats the pants off the worst FF game ever.

CC
05-22-2010, 02:42 PM
As I still have yet to play this one I'm really in no place to give honest advice here, but I say give it one more go. I can tell you right now FFTactics had to grow on me a while before I would continue; I stopped playing it after the first battle or so because at the time, I just did not care for it. But now I absolutely LOVE Tactics! And I realize we're talking about two different games here, but one man's trash is another man's treasure, as they say. Give it another try, and I think if you still can't get into it this time, then move on.

Darth Revan
05-22-2010, 06:03 PM
Well, I didn't go and buy another copy (120$AUSD is too steep for me to hand over, for a game I didn't like the first time and feeling indifferent towards for a second time (Second hand copies are being sold here for 90$AUSD, which is still too steep imo.)), however one of my cousin's have it and they let me borrow it.

I'll try again to play it, to see if I can get into it. Next Sunday I'll post whether I'm going to get it again or if I was in the right to get rid of it.

RAMChYLD
05-22-2010, 09:27 PM
Well, I've just made it to Chapter 10. Chapter 9 was a PITA and took over a day, and Barthandelous is such a sonuvabitch that I had to go to bed after getting my ass handed to me a dozen times before finally being able to cream him. And that's only the Disc 1 final dungeon, mang!

chewey
05-22-2010, 10:04 PM
I still have no idea why anybody has trouble with that boss

fat man cory
05-22-2010, 10:29 PM
I still have no idea why anybody has trouble with that boss

Lol, me to. Friend had an incredibly hard time beating it despite the fact that I killed it in my first try and was only half paying attention.
On the game its self, I just beat it and thought it was great, not as good as the of the ones I’ve play but still good. Give it a chance, but if it turns out u don’t like, well, you don’t like it and that’s that. Don’t try too hard to play something that’s not fun just a waste of time at that point.

Neg
05-22-2010, 10:41 PM
Yeah, totally hat-tricked him.

Techchild
05-23-2010, 12:57 AM
Barthandelous is pitifully easy, Even as the penultimate boss it takes only 6 minutes to beat him tops. Granted I had Kain's Lance, Omega and Apocalypse by then but he still only takesminimal effort.

Darth Revan
05-23-2010, 03:50 AM
Only two hours in... still hasn't changed my original opinion of it. I'll try again tomorrow to get further.

Hynad
05-23-2010, 10:42 AM
Barthandelous is pitifully easy, Even as the penultimate boss it takes only 6 minutes to beat him tops. Granted I had Kain's Lance, Omega and Apocalypse by then but he still only takesminimal effort.

Why would it be consequential that you'd have 2 of Lightning's weapons when fighting the last boss?

¨_¨

Techchild
05-23-2010, 04:23 PM
Sorry, I meant Nirvana >.<

Neg
05-23-2010, 07:44 PM
Saw Save the Queen, today.

I LIIIIKE.

RAMChYLD
05-23-2010, 08:12 PM
I still have no idea why anybody has trouble with that boss
Haven't upgraded any weapons yet, that's why >.>

That, and my initial tactic was too flawed and for some reason I didn't feel like consulting the walkthrough. Instead of hitting for massive damage when he was about to pull off Destrudo, I decided to heal and cast buffs. Cue instant death hit. Only when I consulted the walkthrough after having enough that I found out I'm supposed to hurt him as much as possible while he's charging up.

Neg
05-23-2010, 08:59 PM
Nope, that's not why. I didn't upgrade weapons at all until after Bart 2.0.

TRY AGAIN~

RAMChYLD
05-23-2010, 09:43 PM
Ah, okay. It's my tactic then.

Techchild
05-24-2010, 02:26 AM
Start off Sab, Rav, Rav. Use Fang as your Sab. Easy quick-stagger after healing from

penultimate final boss strategy:
Orphan's initial attack. Com, Com, Med when he's staggered. Sen, Med, Med when you expect a Merciless Judgment. Any other paradigms are optional.

Party of Fang, Lightning, Vanille with a full grid. Make sure Fang has Genji Glove, maximized Super Ribbon and maximized Seraph Crown.

The walkthrough will only help with obtaining the equipment, not beating the boss.

RAMChYLD
05-24-2010, 09:18 AM
kk, noted. I'll give it a try when the weekend rolls around- I've given up on playing on weekdays because it's disrupting my sleep pattern.

Techchild
05-24-2010, 10:27 AM
Saturday is a good day for beating him. Lets you relax on Sunday.

Darth Revan
05-24-2010, 07:05 PM
Ok... to the FFXIII fans who offered their advice and such about retrying FFXIII, thanks for the advice, but...

Why did I have to subject myself to that? I swear I had more fun watching paint dry or trimming my pubes (Watched Harold & Kumar Go To White Castle, hence the reference) than what I did with this. I actually played up to Chapter 7 of it... and my reaction to this game is the same as my initial reaction.

I seriously have to question SE regarding what brainiac thought that this was going to be good. The XIII in the title should be a damn hint. XIII, Friday the 13th. Bad BAD BAD!!

I even found a review about this game online, and I have to admit I agree 100% with the reviewer, Ben "Yahtzee" Croshaw of Zero Punctuation:

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

I just really didn't like it at all.

RAMChYLD
05-24-2010, 07:27 PM
Sorry to hear that :(

But well, you're four chapters away from the point where it gets better. Maybe you'll start liking it once you get there?

Darth Revan
05-24-2010, 08:40 PM
I don't know RAMChYLD... FFXIII just doesn't sit well with me. Perhaps I should play a chapter, then leave it for a few days and then repeat... til finished.

chewey
05-24-2010, 08:46 PM
Yahtzee's review was terrible.

fat man cory
05-24-2010, 11:03 PM
The XIII in the title should be a damn hint. XIII, Friday the 13th. Bad BAD BAD!!
ive all ways had good luck on the 13th...
Had some friends who went through the same thing, got to chapter ten, then still didn’t like it. Your case might be different but... It seems unlikely.

CC
05-25-2010, 03:34 PM
That Yahtzee review was hilarious! But so true; after everything I've seen people post about it here, and on various sites, he seemed to kind of sum it up in a nutshell. I honestly think I've decided I won't be buying this one. Sorry Square, but do better next time.

RAMChYLD
05-25-2010, 09:43 PM
I don't know RAMChYLD... FFXIII just doesn't sit well with me. Perhaps I should play a chapter, then leave it for a few days and then repeat... til finished.
I'm doing just that, although for a different reason (I have to get up at 8AM for work. My office hours are 9AM to 6PM. Then there's the traffic issues getting to/from work. And I do have my own after-work activities, so by the time I can sit down in front of the PS3, I'll only have two to three hours of playing time left). So yeah.

It might be a good tactic to try and then hold on until you get to said chapter. If said chapter still feels indifferent to you, then sorry, the game does not suit your tastes and probably never will, since apparently, once you leave Chapter 11, the game goes back to the linear interactive movie style gameplay and you can't access Gran Pulse again until before the final showdown with the big bad.

Reyson
06-17-2010, 09:29 PM
I've seen people say this game is freaking fantastic, and other people say it's crap, w.t.f...
I'm definitely buying it.

Neg
06-17-2010, 09:38 PM
Polarizing is an accurate description, yes.

Vrykolas
06-18-2010, 02:16 AM
What would be helpful, would be if people who hated it, could list some of the JRPGs that they DID like, since say, FF7 or FF10 etc. Because a lot of people haven't liked ANY of the JRPGs that have come out for at least 5 years or more.

So when they criticise FF13, (though I'm not saying they didn't enjoy it, or that 13 isn't without its faults), they're really just saying, 'I don't like JRPGs anymore/at all/more than WRPGs etc'.

Basically, it's become a case of 'Give us the greatest RPG ever, or don't waste our time'.

FF will always sell well, because of the name and the memories people have, the hope that the series will come good etc. But it'll never be respected again, unless Square can actually deliver a pretty near flawless, 'Most Exciting Game Ever Made' installment.

Because people simply don't connect with the way JRPGs work and the way they tell stories anymore. FF13 was a decent installment, but it's not going to go down as an all-time great.

And for a series this big, with so storied a pedigree, that counts as a fail.

CC
06-22-2010, 08:59 PM
What would be helpful, would be if people who hated it, could list some of the JRPGs that they DID like, since say, FF7 or FF10 etc. Because a lot of people haven't liked ANY of the JRPGs that have come out for at least 5 years or more.

So when they criticise FF13, (though I'm not saying they didn't enjoy it, or that 13 isn't without its faults), they're really just saying, 'I don't like JRPGs anymore/at all/more than WRPGs etc'.

Basically, it's become a case of 'Give us the greatest RPG ever, or don't waste our time'.

FF will always sell well, because of the name and the memories people have, the hope that the series will come good etc. But it'll never be respected again, unless Square can actually deliver a pretty near flawless, 'Most Exciting Game Ever Made' installment.

Because people simply don't connect with the way JRPGs work and the way they tell stories anymore. FF13 was a decent installment, but it's not going to go down as an all-time great.

And for a series this big, with so storied a pedigree, that counts as a fail.

Pretty sad when a company keeps on releasing spinoff titles to keep audiences satisfied until the next big release, and then the spinoffs turn out to have been better than the big game. Maybe this is Square's new calling.

Vrykolas
06-22-2010, 11:01 PM
I'm not trying to be funny here, but shouldn't you actually play FF13 first, before you make that kind of judgement?

If you actually have played it, fair enough (I seemed to recall you saying you hadn't though). My point is that its pointless to just take the word of others on these things, because only you will know if you like a game or not.

'All the fans' apparently hate FF12, but you don't (and neither do I). So why is it out of the question that it could be the case with FF13, as well?

In my opinion, FF12 and FF13 have been very good installments of the series, the best for years and years.

So why not at least give the game a chance to impress you, before you write it off? If you don't like it, you can always trade it in for something else. How can you lose?

As to spin-offs. Well, I consider FFX-2 to be vastly superior to FFX, but then I hated FFX with a vengeance. And though I thought Revenant Wings was a bit iffy with character continuity from Ff12, I thought it was pretty solid.

But they are the only spin-offs, worth mentioning IMO. The crystal chronicles games are all awful, and the less said about that game with Vincent Valentine, the better.

Techchild
06-23-2010, 01:07 AM
As to spin-offs. Well, I consider FFX-2 to be vastly superior to FFX


Are you even a person????? X-2 was faff the story was worse than rolling in horse-shit, the gameplay was clunky and the characters over-sexualized. Softcore porn does not make a game.

chewey
06-23-2010, 04:30 AM
I really can't pick which I like more out of X and X-2. I just like lumping them together as one big heap of good times.

The story in X-2 really isn't as bad as people like to say it is. The political powers of Spira fighting for power after the defeat of Sin was enough to keep me involved. I understand why it wouldn't be somebody's cup of tea, though. What I don't understand is how you can have any problem with the gameplay in X-2 at all. The game easily has the best battle system in the series for me. It's fast-paced (no idea how you could think it's clunky) and has a pretty good job system, which I am a sucker for.

The characters also aren't as sexualised as people like to say they are. Yuna wore more revealing clothes, but I really don't think she was sexualised in any way beyond that. However, even if they were highly sexualised, I don't see why this would be a problem unless you were afraid your parents would walk in and catch you watching something like WHAT CAN I DO FOR YOU

WHAT CAN I DO FOR YOU
WHAT CAN I DO FOR YOU
WHAT CAN I DO FOR YOU
WHAT CAN I DO FOR YOU
WHAT CAN I DO FOR YOU
WHAT CAN I DO FOR YOU
WHAT CAN I DO FOR YOU
WHAT CAN I DO FOR YOU
WHAT CAN I DO FOR YOU
WHAT CAN I DO FOR YOU

or the Leblanc massage scene

Vrykolas
06-23-2010, 05:10 AM
Agree with all the points made above (well, except for the liking of FFX - Auron rocks, though!)

FFX-2 had excellent gameplay, and a light-hearted atmosphere that made for a superbly enjoyable experience. As for the characters being over sexualised, come on... It was all perfectly innocent, with the occasional playful nods to the slightly perverse.

And I'd argue that all JRPGs have that (hell most Jap products of all kinds - or haven't you played Metal Gear Solid?).

And what about FF7? It's the most famous JRPG of them all, and it has that cross dressing bit, (which isn't even a side-quest - you HAVE to do it!)

The dating simulator element is weighted towards Aeris and Tifa, but you can get Barret (a guy) and Yuffie (an almost certainly underage girl), on the Gold Saucer ride.

chewey
06-23-2010, 05:34 AM
There's also the gay hot tub scene in FF7.

Vrykolas
06-23-2010, 05:44 AM
You just had to bring that up, didn't you? :D

Techchild
06-23-2010, 06:29 AM
You just had to bring that up, didn't you? :D

I thought those bikini briefs were quite fetching, thank you..

CC
06-23-2010, 08:27 AM
You're right Vry, in that I should definitely play XIII before making such statements about it; it's just that Neg, FSITO, Death's Head and a couple others have pointed out many things in various posts that make me a little standoffish about it thus far. I will rent it though, mark my words; I won't simply pass it up. I will give it a fair chance! :D

Also . . . Cloud seemed a lot more 'at-home' in that dress than he did in his regular clothes. Just saying, maybe that part in the game revealed a little bit about him that he wouldn't care to have acknowledged. FFVII is so full of innuendos it's insane!

Vrykolas
06-23-2010, 03:46 PM
Well, good on you.

I had my reservations when I heard the rumours about XIII, but I was pleasantly surprised. I can't guarantee you'll feel the same of course (and I make no bones about it - the game has problems!)

But some of the cutscenes are worth the price of admission alone, IMO.

I remember the first time I was playing FF7, my mate told me the bit coming up at Don Corneo's was 'A bit like Leisure Suit Larry - but with swords'.

That's when I knew I was onto a fine game...

Harkus
06-24-2010, 04:07 AM
Hmmm, from what I've heard about Versus, XIII seems like nothing more than an early beta test to determine what SE can do on the PS3.

Techchild
06-24-2010, 06:03 AM
A damn good test if you ask me

Scryer
06-24-2010, 12:42 PM
A damn good test if you ask me

Same.

They said that FFXIII was the "light" and versus was the "darkness" in terms of how they relate to each other. Personally, I'm hoping for versus to play like the opposite of XIII (making it feel more like a game than a movie) to reflect that.

Harkus
06-24-2010, 04:05 PM
What XIII needed were things that would make it a fun and relevant game, namely Side-quests, a good battle system, a good level-up system, towns, sub-plots, exploration, more than one way to go at any given time etc. etc. I could go on.

Neg
06-24-2010, 06:34 PM
Not all games are going to be like that~

Vrykolas
06-24-2010, 08:48 PM
Well, let's see...

1) Side-quests.
You're confusing a lack of interesting side quests, with no side quests at all. Yes, they don't show up until Chapter 11, but that's actually not too rare.

Take FF7 - the vast majority of the side quests in that game, could only be accessed with the Highwind, and after you rescued Cloud (to reopen the Gold Saucer).

Most JRPGs wait until near the end (generally when you receive your airship), to put in side quests. The first half of the games, are usually always linear walks from A to B, with very little in the way of proper side quests.

The side quests in FF13 are unimaginative monster bashes, and the lack of character specific side quests for weapons, extra background info and new abilities is a shame.

But the game is quite clear that this is a game operating on a very specific timeframe. Unlike other games where you can justify the hours and hours you spend on non-plot tasks, FF13 has an ongoing, uninterrupted narrative.

Your characters are slated to turn into monsters at any moment, because of their brands - they don't have time to mess around traipsing back and forth on fetch and carry quests, chocobo breeding or whatever else.

2) A good battle system.
You say this like it's a given that FF13 doesn't have a good battle system. But that's just your opinion - lots of people have stated that they actually really like the battles, even if they don't like anything else about it.

The criticism of 'it's just pressing attack all the time' is both somewhat correct and utterly preposterous (because in the vast majority of JRPGs, it's par for the course that you can win battles against almost any regular opponents by just pressing attack, including the heavyweights like FF7 and FF10).

It's one of those cases where you either think its streamlined or dumbed down. I would argue that the public's patience for drawn out battles has passed. Games need to move and play quickly these days.

3) Towns.
Towns are the bane of the JRPG! Yes, okay, sometimes you get an interesting one (usually a major plot city), but most JRPG towns, villages etc make you want to slit your own throat with the sheer tedium of them.

It all starts with that dreaded 'Sleepy hamlet' music that seems to play in every rural community in JRPGs. Then there is the legions of NPC villagers and townsfolk who you know will have nothing important to say, but because you don't want to miss anything, you talk to every single one of them...

Towns are a place to buy weapons and that's it. I wasn't sorry at all, that FF13 cut them out. Easily available shops at every save point, and none of the usual agony spent exploring dull towns, full of even duller people.

4) Sub-Plots.
I'm not sure what you mean by this. I presume you mean character specific quests for unique gear and spells etc. If so, I covered it above.

5) Exploration - more than one way to go.
Again, the game does have a good reason why you can't go exploring. I would point out that in games like FF7 and FF10, the game is largely just walking from A to B, usually along a straight road.

(The flip screÄen format of these older games, means they change camera angles, so it doesn't feel so much like a straight line - but you are still only allowed to go in one direction).

From Midgar, you MUST go to Kalm, then to Chocobo Bill's, Mythril Mine. (You can visit Fort Condor, but can't do anything of note there), then it's back to the straight line - Junon, Costa, Gold Saucer, Cosmo Canyon.

Exploring is only fun when there are actually good things to find, interesting scenarios, new locations etc off the beaten track.

I should point out that FF12 had huge scope for exploration in this way, and was villified by the FF community (it also had lots of side quests, towns etc!)


Look, the game has its problems, no argument there. But I don't think any of the things you listed were all that harmful, especially in the context of the story.

I think what can be said is that it definately didn't have that X factor, that the series really could have done with recapturing. THat special something that made you think 'Yes, the series is back!' when you saw it.

CC
06-24-2010, 09:07 PM
I agree with you about towns; they usually are rather boring. But, in most FF titles (for me at least) a lot of the towns are still memorable in their own way.

But regarding games needing to be faster. . . . That's just because the average gamer anymore has the attention span of an infant.

chewey
06-24-2010, 09:21 PM
It doesn't really have anything to do with a person's attention span. The battle systems in older jRPGS just aren't fun at all.

CC
06-24-2010, 09:40 PM
I'm sorry you feel that way :(

chewey
06-24-2010, 10:08 PM
If you think mashing X while watching slow animations and huge pauses play out is fun then I think there may be something wrong with you. If there's some depth/complexity to the battle system then I am kind of okay with it running at a snail pace, but that is rarely the case when it comes to jRPGs. It's especially not the case in most Final Fantasy games.

CC
06-25-2010, 07:52 AM
Then it's official, there's something wrong with me, and millions of other people who helped make Square so rich and famous ;)

Techchild
06-25-2010, 10:28 AM
Then it's official, there's something wrong with me, and millions of other MINDLESS DRONES who helped make Square so rich and famous ;)

:parrot: :zilla:

CC
06-25-2010, 10:36 AM
To each their own.

Neg
06-25-2010, 11:03 AM
People like a lot weirder things than mashing a single button. Plus, there's so many goddamn many people who like jrpgs. Even if the appeal doesn't seem logical to everyone, it exists.

CC just said it best. Whatever gets you through the night~

in this case, he isn't alone, by a hundred million miles.




In an attempt to (weakly) justify myself, yes, I do enjoy tipping the sacred cows of fandom every once in a while. Itís fun watching fans get militant and flustered in impotent Internet rage, posting screaming, incoherent diatribes online in retaliation. Once again, I think it all comes back to my own unique blend of hypocrisy and my self-effacing nature. For every Star Wars slam I make, I expose an irrational worship of the old sci-fi show Sliders. Every time I issue an Internet bitchslap against people arguing who the best Doctor is, Iím embroiled in another argument about whether Deckard was a Replicant, and getting in my trillionth argument about AD&D alignments in another forum thread. Iím a fan. My crusade is against blind worship. I love a lot of weird stuff, but I can still admit that itís flawed. I donít care that you love Doctor Who, but donít try to claim that itís never sucked. It has. It does. But real fans can still love something in spite ofĖ no, because of its flaws.

Thatís me. I love you guys, and youíre a load of flawed, screwed-up weirdos. But thatís okay. I am your king, and you are not alone.

Iíve raged against furries and weird transgender moogle porn, but damn it, this is America! You want to jerk off to Filthy Multitasking Quistis, hell, throw that picture on the ground, huddle up, and Iíll put five bucks on whoever can bust a nut on her face first. You are not stupid for seeking people you identify with. You are not an idiot for finding friends and feeling like you have somewhere you belong. Your particular brand of happiness might be pretty fucked-up, but youíre not fucked-up for pursuing that happiness. As long as youíre not hurting anyone, wave that freak flag high.

Believe me, there are a lot of things I don't understand in this world. Plus, it's hard sometimes not to think there is something wrong with someone for liking something that makes no sense to me at all, but I'm always going to try to keep that speech in mind, because it is so the ultimate truth of all situations.

jrpgs, represent~

Vrykolas
06-25-2010, 04:42 PM
To pick up on the pojnt about towns, it's usually just the first major city that is good. Midgar, Rabanastre etc. Because they're the jumping off point, where you have to convince people of the world, and why they should care etc etc.

The rest of the towns are rarely interesting in and of themselves. They only become interesting if they are major plot flashpoints, in which case they get more attention and detail (Deling City in FF8 for example).

But when locations aren't directly tied to the action, they tend to get short changed. FF12's Arcadia is extremely dull, considering its the capital city of the game's 'Evil Empire'. And what about Nalbina Fortress - an alleyway and a yard!

Esthar from FF8 is also guilty of this. Yes, there's the initial 'Wow - get this place!', but it quickly gives way to screen after screen after screen of walkways with absolutely nothing of interest.

You're soon desperate to get out of there, and go somewhere where things actually happen!

What I'm saying is that I don't object to towns and cities, but they can quickly get really, really boring, unless they have major plot events or plenty of interesting side quests to do in them.

In a lot of games, you just have to put up with it. You need places to buy new gear, and that means either fudging it and letting you buy equipment anywhere (like with that magic abacus guy from Jade Empire or FF13's terminals) or you have to visit a series of dreary towns.


Going back to the story for a bit, I'd just like to say also that I disagree strongly that the game 'only gets good from Chapter 10 onwards'.

It's true that Chapter 10+ see an upswing in the gameplay (you finally have your full team together, can select leader and party members, have all the paradigms, side quests come in, diffculty increases sharply etc)

Which is all to the good, but some people insist it's the case with the story (and also claim the 9 Chapters leading up to that are uniformly poor). That wasn't my experience at all.

If anything, I found Chapters 10 and 11 very dull indeed, storywise. Together with Chapters 4-6, they are the weakest chapters in terms of the storyline.

For the record, I enjoyed Chapters 1-3 very much, although as I said earlier, they do require you to read the Datalog to make much sense of them.

Chapters 4-6 are pretty awful. Endless truding about in a variety of locations with no real idea what's going on. Sazh and Vanille work well together as characters, but they're awkward as hell to use together in game.

Lightning and Hope are a much more formiddable team, but their level in the Whitewood in Chapter 5 is very poor.

Chapters 7-9 are the best in the game IMO. The party comes together, several major plot issues are resolved, and it all leads up to a fight across the enemy battleship that has some great locations and set pieces.

It's galling therefore that Chapter 10 is so awful. Apart from what is probably the best boss fight in the game, it's like playing the thrice accursed Library from Halo 1!

Chapter 11 has a great opening Cutscene, but is an utterly pointless level (again, storywise - it's the best for actual gameplay).

12 is okay, but not as great as the opening cutscenes suggest it will be. Still quite good, but you feel that in older FF games, this would be the kind of thing that ended a disc, not ended the game.

Chapter 13 is okayish, but it feels a bit like something from Shin Megami Tensei, rather than FF. I enjoyed it, but I was annoyed that only Fang and Vanille were all that important, given that it was the final Chapter and all!

chewey
06-25-2010, 07:38 PM
Then it's official, there's something wrong with me, and millions of other people who helped make Square so rich and famous ;)
Yes. The battle systems were fine at the time but they have aged horribly. You haven't got much of a point when you say people who played the games at the time were fine with their battle systems. For example: people liked Deus Ex a lot when it came out but it's pretty much unplayable these days.

WINK WINK

Vrykolas
06-26-2010, 03:57 AM
The only thing you can do, is say whether you thought it was good at the time.

Old games didn't have access to the new technology of today, so they will feel dated in many cases. That is no fault of those games. It doesn't however excuse systems that were poor even at those times.

I would argue that FF8's Junction system for example, was far too fiddly. The way they made you have to draw spells for hours, to enhance your stats (which also discouraged you from actually casting them!), was just awful.

And there are many who argue that FF13's battle system is simply a less interesting version of X-2's system.

Neg
06-26-2010, 04:11 AM
[Only registered and activated users can see links]

CC
06-26-2010, 08:47 AM
People like a lot weirder things than mashing a single button. Plus, there's so many goddamn many people who like jrpgs. Even if the appeal doesn't seem logical to everyone, it exists.

CC just said it best. Whatever gets you through the night~

in this case, he isn't alone, by a hundred million miles.



Believe me, there are a lot of things I don't understand in this world. Plus, it's hard sometimes not to think there is something wrong with someone for liking something that makes no sense to me at all, but I'm always going to try to keep that speech in mind, because it is so the ultimate truth of all situations.

jrpgs, represent~

Thanks Neg. :)

And Chewey, I get what you're saying, but that's your opinion, not mine. I happen to love the old FF games, as well as the newer ones (i.e. the whole series). I don't dislike any of them. You like Pokťmon, I don't; that's how we all differ. The little things like that make us individuals. So just don't worry about my tastes in gaming; at least we both enjoy FFIX! :D

chewey
06-26-2010, 09:26 PM
I had a long post written up but I lost it because the server went down.

Basically, I like the old FF games too. That doesn't mean you have to like the battle systems though. Even at the time I played them despite the battle systems, not because of them. I don't understand how you could think mashing x through slow battles is good gameplay at all. I certainly don't like it in Pokemon, which I'm kind of a fan of (I only really play Crystal anymore). If I ever do play a Final Fantasy or Pokemon game, I have to play them on an emulator so I can speed through the tedious battles. They simply aren't fun/engaging/whatever at all and that has nothing to do with a person's attention span.

Also I agree that FF13's battle system is a much less interesting version of the FFX-2 battle system.

CC
06-26-2010, 11:20 PM
Well, lemme put it like this. . . . Maybe I like them because they're slow. You know? I do like faster-paced games too, don't get me wrong; it's just that, as I've said, there's a time and place for everything. I've always considered Final Fantasy games to be more about strategy and tactics, more than just 'run around and slice 'em up' kind of games. If I want that, there's a myriad of other titles I can turn to. But FF forces you to use your head a little more to solve your way through some of the tougher battles. Sure, the regular battles (i.e. not bosses) are pretty much just 'mash X or O (whichever it is, depending on the FF title) and watch stuff die before it even has a chance to try and hit you even though it'll usually just miss anyway', and that's fine, whatever, at least they level you up. But then the bosses come along and that's when you need to use a little more strategy. It's not always just 'mash X and watch stuff die'. Sometimes you gotta balance out whether or not to use magic, or an item, or whatever else. Especially I, II, and III; I dunno about you man, but for me those three are freakin' tough! You can't just sit and mash X; you have to really balance out your tactics for winning, or you get raped real quick. So no, it's not always just pressing one button; they do make you think sometimes. Yes, I said sometimes.

Another thing to factor in; I've played FFIV since I was four years old. At that age, if you do anything enough, it can become ingrained into your brain for life. In that case, yes, the whole FF mechanic became something perfectly normal for me–just as normal as playing Zelda, or Mario, or anything else. I never once questioned it or thought it was strange. And I can openly admit, I probably would not have gotten into these games had it not been for that. I can clearly understand where somebody would dislike them, because when I put myself into the position of having never played them from a young age, it makes crystal clear sense to me.

Another thing: the storylines. I dunno about you, but I happen to enjoy those aspects of the games, and perhaps the reason most of us put up with the gameplay is for the sake of finding out what happens next. Of course the first three aren't so story-oriented, but so what? I'm one who enjoys them either way. Other people are like that as well. Sure, the stories were simpler in the older titles; mainly V. That's why I really haven't ever gotten into V that much. I did manage to get thirteen hours in, but I just can't be bothered to continue. It doesn't interest me. Mainly because the graphics royally suck, the battle system feels very clunky, the music ain't that great, and the story is boring. So I guess when it comes right down to it, maybe I don't love every FF title 100% equally; FFV is the weakest link for me. But even still, I do plan on trying to master it one day, because the job class system, while done better in III, still does hold some interest even for V.

I guess what I'm trying to get at is . . . yes, I get why people wouldn't like the series, or many other JRPGs. But for me, there's other aspects that help to make it a worthwhile experience. But that does not mean there's something wrong with me simply because you don't feel the same way; all it means is that our opinions are different, and there's nothing wrong with that. So just don't worry about it :D

Harkus
06-27-2010, 06:59 AM
When the battle system gives you a "WIN" button and involves the player as little as possible I argue that it's an objectively bad battle system.

Towns are awesome. What they do is give you a chance to say "I want to take it at my pace" you can keep moving forward with the narrative if you want or you can shop, talk to NPC's, do side-quests etc. It's breathing space. As I've said before- if, for the story to make sense, important aspects need to be sacrificed then the story should be different. Nobody forced to SE to tell that story.

With regards to exploration, yes you are right. At the beginning of the games it is- go to A then to B without much chance of starying. BUT, 99% of dungeons, towns, caves etc. in older FF games had at least one turning.... not just a single road. Essentially FFXIII is an RPG with the level design of a dated FPS. Even saying that every FF had secret areas available in the latter stages of the game that could be explored. FFXIII has something like two secret areas, and I say secret loosely. It's hard to hide something in a two meter wide corridor.

I like the older battle systems, against regular enemies perhaps they are a tad too slow but I still enjoy the battles. Against tough bosses I really like it though, it requires strategy and thought. My favourite battle system is XII's. It is perfect.

gravydude
07-15-2010, 02:04 PM
XII's battle system is the best ever, dont play XIII again, play XII XD

Aniki
07-15-2010, 02:15 PM
Where were you when everyone was bitching about FF XII battle system 3 years ago?

gravydude
07-15-2010, 02:24 PM
XD

Vrykolas
07-16-2010, 07:55 PM
Let's be clear about something. FF12's system has many qualities, but let's not forget that you can FULLY automate combat.

I.e with Gambits set for everyone, you don't even need to press X to attack. All you have to do is walk around, and in 95% of the game, you won't need to actually do anything at all!

Because most battles really only need you to attack normally. As long as your Gambits cover the following:

1) 1 party member at least must have a 'if member falls below HP X, use Curaja etc'.

2) give each member a Gambit that tells them what to do against flying creatures

and

3) give each member a gambit that tells them to attack nearby enemies.


And that's all you need. The only time the game requires your attention is to keep an eye out for status ailments (and of course, you can automate that too, if you like).

So let's not quibble about FF13 have a win button, when FF12 has a 'win button that can set to be pressed all the time'!

And much though I love the game, FF12's system is completely unsuitable for boss battles. It sucks all the individuality out of them, and has by far the worst boss encounters of any modern FF IMO.

Not because the enemies are bad or the situations are bad etc (I particularly like the Garuda, the various fights against the Judges etc).

But because the named attacks are harder to spot and don't have the same 'Wow!' effect in such open field combat. It robs the bosses of individual charisma.

The camera is also an issue. For bosses in earlier games, the camera is set by the director to give a clear view, but make the boss look impressive. In open field combat with a (semi) controllable camera, bosses just look so much more ordinary than those from other games.

And there's the fact that every boss (every one) simply needs you to buff up, then pile in with combat attacks. And it works for every boss in the game, no thought required.