X-Men Origins Wolverine (2009) - Harry Gregson-Williams

[mad777]

X-Men Origins Wolverine (2009) - Harry Gregson-Williams

[Only registered and activated users can see links]


tracklist:

01. Logan Through Time (04:19)
02. Special Privileges (01:57)
03. Lagos, Nigeria (05:10)
04. Wade Goes to Work (01:28)
05. Kayla (02:53)
06. Victor Visits (02:06)
07. Adamantium (04:16)
08. Agent Zero Comes for Logan (03:08)
09. Logan Meets Gambit (04:34)
10. To the Island (03:46)
11. Deadpool (04:10)
12. The Towers Collapse (03:22)
13. Memories Lost (03:01)
14. “…I’ll Find My Own Way” (01:24)

Total Duration: 00:45:34

[theGrudge]

Right On!! Brother.

[firefue]

An other link that rapidshare?
It's really so long!!

[Mathazzar]

Thanks. :)

[cuckoo77]

K...I'm definately picking this up now.....thanks! sounds great.....but am I the only one that is constantly reminded of Shapiro's Tropic Thunder?

[morrigan666]

Promo?

[Nisuk]

Thank You so much. I've been waiting for this score for so long...

[hellrasinbrasin]

Hey This is the promotional Soundtrack; track 3 is The Virtuous Mission from MGS 3

:evilmoogle:

[OrangeC]

Thanks,

But i would really like to hear paul haslingers score for the video game.

[Jack the Ripper]

Thanks :)

[stephen5]

Nice one good stuff dude

[firefue]

What song that "Kayla"! I love xD

[ironhide]

thanks

[into the storm]

Boring score.

[Laei]

Thank you for sharing this!!

[Victor007]

Jejeje Thanks!!!

[t0m s3rvo]

Why in God's name was this movie so horrible? The score is actually pretty decent. It's Gregson-Williams, so of course it's going to be good.

[pietastesgood]

Thank you so much!

[tangotreats]

Hey This is the promotional Soundtrack; track 3 is The Virtuous Mission from MGS 3

:evilmoogle:

Uh, no. Unfortunately this is the actual score.

That track is just another sign that HGW is an idiot hack; as if you thought he couldn't get any lower, now he's taking crap music he wrote for a video game five years ago, and quietly dropping it into X-Men. The mind boggles. Well, actually, it doesn't; these shitty scores are all we're getting these days.

As for the rest of it, it's a predictable piece of brainless crap.

It's very telling that nobody could really tell the difference between the score and the temp track. Such is the way of life when music is as generic and soulless as it has become in 99.9999% of contemporary film scores.

mad777: Thanks for posting - I was curious about this score but certainly not prepared to pay for it; a small part of me hoped that it would continue along in a similar vein as John Powell's work on The Last Stand - but alas it wasn't to be...

[OrangeC]

Danny all you do in every thread is rant and spew your stupid shit, if you don't like it don't download it, and its not just this thread, your always babbling on how idiotic a composer is, hey guess what? harry gregson williams doesn't give a shit what you think. its pointless for you to be coming in here and calling him a hack.

And Lets face it, do you think a composer always decides on how to score the films? no, because the director is telling them how.

[Sirusjr]

Thanks for the upload!

[GDeitz]

Uh, no. Unfortunately this is the actual score.

That track is just another sign that HGW is an idiot hack; as if you thought he couldn't get any lower, now he's taking crap music he wrote for a video game five years ago, and quietly dropping it into X-Men. The mind boggles. Well, actually, it doesn't; these shitty scores are all we're getting these days.

As for the rest of it, it's a predictable piece of brainless crap.

It's very telling that nobody could really tell the difference between the score and the temp track. Such is the way of life when music is as generic and soulless as it has become in 99.9999% of contemporary film scores.

mad777: Thanks for posting - I was curious about this score but certainly not prepared to pay for it; a small part of me hoped that it would continue along in a similar vein as John Powell's work on The Last Stand - but alas it wasn't to be...

I feel like I want to disagree with this, but I really can't. :S

[hellrasinbrasin]

I wanna rant I wanna rant praise the Lord I bought Apple Pie .

Hack-Hack-Hack... Hack-Hack-Hack... Hack your Movies hack your Movies

:objection:

But I really do like the Composer sniff sniff I just like everything he did
before X-Man Origins Bobcat

[Ralbalboa]

Why in God's name was this movie so horrible? The score is actually pretty decent. It's Gregson-Williams, so of course it's going to be good.

Where did you see the movie? It isn't out yet! Was it the leaked one?

[bi0h4zard]

Thanks!

[TZEECH]

Where did you see the movie? It isn't out yet! Was it the leaked one?


yes, about 2 months ago the working copy of the movie was bootleg.
you can get it on the corner now.
WARNING, its a working copy so the FX and music is very limited.

[prestonjelmet]

Danny all you do in every thread is rant and spew your stupid shit, if you don't like it don't download it, and its not just this thread, your always babbling on how idiotic a composer is, hey guess what? harry gregson williams doesn't give a shit what you think. its pointless for you to be coming in here and calling him a hack.

And Lets face it, do you think a composer always decides on how to score the films? no, because the director is telling them how.

Personally, I love dannyfrench's rantings. He frequently puts perspective into the ignorant, self-important, high horse members of this board frequently find themselves on. C'mon, remember this thread?

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

Classic stuff.

[licenturion]

Personally, I love dannyfrench's rantings. He frequently puts perspective into the ignorant, self-important, high horse members of this board frequently find themselves on. C'mon, remember this thread?

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

Classic stuff.

Thanks. I'm gonna check this out but I don't expect much.

I actually look forward to the comments of Arthier, Streichorch and Dannyfrench when a new generic score is released. They seem to have great taste about actual orchestral music.

UPDATE: My review: utter crap
What the hell is this. It's just generic filler. No interesting themes, percussion and elektronics all over te place. Meh. I would have liked something like Powell his work on 'The Phoenix Rises'. That was great orchestral music. This is just...meh... What a disappointment.

[tangotreats]

Danny all you do in every thread is rant and spew your stupid shit, if you don't like it don't download it, and its not just this thread, your always babbling on how idiotic a composer is, hey guess what? harry gregson williams doesn't give a shit what you think. its pointless for you to be coming in here and calling him a hack.

And Lets face it, do you think a composer always decides on how to score the films? no, because the director is telling them how.

So only positive comments are welcome? I haven't said a thing out of place. I've thanked the poster and made a perfectly valid comment about the music; and it seems that I'm not the only person who thinks it.

If a composer is an idiot (or if somebody thinks a composer is an idiot) why not say so? It's certainly better than reading threads filled with "OH YEAH ITS SO EPIC, ITS THE GREATEST THING EVAH!!!" nonsense - at least my "stupid shit" is coherent and constructive. Or would it be a better world if we were all sheep who keep our mouths shut and chow down on whatever crap we're given?

No, HGW doesn't give a shit - do you think I was under the impression that he'd be reading the forum, see that I didn't like his score, and go and jump off a bridge because he couldn't handle the criticism? I don't give a shit either. I'll register my distaste by not purchasing his dreadful album. Unfortunately millions more will buy it because it's a) epic, b) has percussion, c) the movie is cool, d) it's the best thing ever (until the next one), e) all of the above.

So who is hurt by me saying I don't like this shit, and stating my reasons? If you like it, go on liking it; I'm not stopping you or disrespecting you (though YOU are disrespecting me for disliking it!) - I'm merely stating an opinion.

My comments are obviously ringing true for some people; possibly there are many more people who feel the same but don't express themselves because they believe that somebody is going to jump on them for "babbling shit" and tell them to take their controversial (read: different) opinion elsewhere!

It's not pointless; it's an opinion, and one which is being proven more and more correct by every note of "music" that comes out of the artless 21st century film music factories.

As for a composer not being responsible for the score; of course, this is true to a certain extent. I work in the industry myself (as a composer) and frequently have to deal with meddling directors and various other people on the production (usually those with the money!) who feel the need to interfere with the creative process. Even in the crappy no-budget indie films I'm scoring, you have to put up with this kind of shit, so I shudder to think how bad it must be in a $200 million blockbuster. You hire a composer to write music; let him be, let him do his job, and keep your nose out of it. It's never that way - not now, anyway.

However, believe me, I'm not naive enough to confuse a bad composer with a good composer being opressed.

This is a bad score, and the only person to blame is Harry Gregson Williams. He "wrote" it - he even conducted it, and he accepted money for it. I know that the composer's role has diminished in recent years, but I think it's safe to say that by and large, he's still responsible for the quality (or lack thereof) of music that goes in the movie.

Please - stop hitting on me because I don't like some stuff. And really, don't tell me to shut my mouth unless I have something positive to say. Unless you mean to suggest that only opinions compatible with yours aren't welcome.

[licenturion]

^^ I agree with this completly.

As for the score. I read an interview with Harry Gregson williams claiming how great this score was and how operatic and dramatic...

Well I listen a lot to operatic and dramatic music and this sure isn't it. IMO the composer is to blaim too. If you really want to create something really great as composer you go for it and try to convince the director. Zimmer convinced Christopher Nolan to throw the only interesting track of the whole Dark Knight soundtrack out of the movie for instance... And if you don't like the direction of music you have to write you refuse the project. Or write it anyway your way and have your score rejected.

Anyway this is a bad soundtrack IMO. And way to many scores come out like this. If you want to listen to a better score try the new Star Trek OST which is good, although not great.

This score is bland, generic, boring, unoriginal, has no emotion and certainly not epic.... And it isn't even 'fun' to listen too either... Even Brian Tyler does better than this.

But as with every other art. You have to dig deep into the pile to get past the crap. God heavens, it took me several years to even scratch the surface of the good stuff...

[herbaciak]

it's the best thing ever (until the next one)

This one is really cool;D.

And mostly I agree with U danny, but after all HGW wrote some really good scores in his career (first Narnia, Kingdom of Heaven, Sinbad, Spy Game). He's not an idiot, he know how to write interesting music. Problem is that he doesn't wanna do this (I guess) - why try harder, when U get money for not trying at all?

I know, writing music is different than sitting in an office, but... For HGW composing is work. For other people sitting in office is a work. And don't tell me that people in offices work as hard as they can. They mostly do the minimum - they are going to get the money anyway, so why do more? I think the same problem is killing film music. No ambition, no creativity, just autopilot, just money. Unimaginative score=less time to write it=more time to write another one=more projects per year=$$$. It's shame, it's bad, but I am afraid that we can't do a thing 'bout this.

[jdrevpile]

Cheers for the up - tho like the film it's pretty lacklustre.

[OrangeC]

So only positive comments are welcome? I haven't said a thing out of place. I've thanked the poster and made a perfectly valid comment about the music; and it seems that I'm not the only person who thinks it.

If a composer is an idiot (or if somebody thinks a composer is an idiot) why not say so? It's certainly better than reading threads filled with "OH YEAH ITS SO EPIC, ITS THE GREATEST THING EVAH!!!" nonsense - at least my "stupid shit" is coherent and constructive. Or would it be a better world if we were all sheep who keep our mouths shut and chow down on whatever crap we're given?

No, HGW doesn't give a shit - do you think I was under the impression that he'd be reading the forum, see that I didn't like his score, and go and jump off a bridge because he couldn't handle the criticism? I don't give a shit either. I'll register my distaste by not purchasing his dreadful album. Unfortunately millions more will buy it because it's a) epic, b) has percussion, c) the movie is cool, d) it's the best thing ever (until the next one), e) all of the above.

So who is hurt by me saying I don't like this shit, and stating my reasons? If you like it, go on liking it; I'm not stopping you or disrespecting you (though YOU are disrespecting me for disliking it!) - I'm merely stating an opinion.

My comments are obviously ringing true for some people; possibly there are many more people who feel the same but don't express themselves because they believe that somebody is going to jump on them for "babbling shit" and tell them to take their controversial (read: different) opinion elsewhere!

It's not pointless; it's an opinion, and one which is being proven more and more correct by every note of "music" that comes out of the artless 21st century film music factories.

As for a composer not being responsible for the score; of course, this is true to a certain extent. I work in the industry myself (as a composer) and frequently have to deal with meddling directors and various other people on the production (usually those with the money!) who feel the need to interfere with the creative process. Even in the crappy no-budget indie films I'm scoring, you have to put up with this kind of shit, so I shudder to think how bad it must be in a $200 million blockbuster. You hire a composer to write music; let him be, let him do his job, and keep your nose out of it. It's never that way - not now, anyway.

However, believe me, I'm not naive enough to confuse a bad composer with a good composer being opressed.

This is a bad score, and the only person to blame is Harry Gregson Williams. He "wrote" it - he even conducted it, and he accepted money for it. I know that the composer's role has diminished in recent years, but I think it's safe to say that by and large, he's still responsible for the quality (or lack thereof) of music that goes in the movie.

Please - stop hitting on me because I don't like some stuff. And really, don't tell me to shut my mouth unless I have something positive to say. Unless you mean to suggest that only opinions compatible with yours aren't welcome.


Not every score has to be a masterpiece or OMGzorz orchestralz!!

Its the wolverine movie!! what u expect?

[pecosbill]

As Ive said before...I hear a duck farting...



But yeah this was like video game music...What can you do? The X Men movies in my opinion all had crappy music...This one, although more along the lines of Powell's work, is better in terms of action...But in the end I couldnt care less.

But Im sure either way the score will gel better after you see the movie its attached to. HGW didnt write this as a suite he pulled from his arse - he wrote it as a movie score, so watch the damn movie first then make your review.

[Ruffneck]

Can anyone of you reup? The link is down...

[licenturion]

second that

[Sirusjr]

Not every score has to be a masterpiece or OMGzorz orchestralz!!

Its the wolverine movie!! what u expect?
It doesn't even have to be orchestral to be good. There are a number of great composers who make wonderful soundtracks that are mostly synthesized and have great themes and sound wonderful (vangelis anyone?). The reason I appreciate Dannyfrench's comments is that a thumbs up from him means I am likely to enjoy it because I have similar preference and taste for orchestral music rather than this generic synthesized wannabe epic stuff. I still download stuff like this and give it a listen myself because, i will admit, I really love The Dark Knight soundtrack regardless of its synth nature. At least that is shall I say unique sounding in a way.

Plus as you already saw, telling him to shut up makes him post more :P

[licenturion]

Dannyfrench, it seems you have a fanclub :)

Please don't use the word 'epic' anymore when talking about this soundtrack.

Only thing epic about it is that it is an epic fail :)

[Sirusjr]

I said wannabe epic :P

[Ruffneck]

Thanks.


@ licenturion

Thanks for reup.

[hellrasinbrasin]

I don't want this franchise to be dead but I think its over

:kirbyfly:

[bi0h4zard]

edited

[stardragon978]

After listening to the score, I would have to agree with Dannyfrench.
There is NOTHING interesting about the entire score at all.
But, that is just my opinion.

[t0m s3rvo]

yes, about 2 months ago the working copy of the movie was bootleg.
you can get it on the corner now.
WARNING, its a working copy so the FX and music is very limited.

Nevermind there were some visual effects shots that weren't completely finished.

[t0m s3rvo]

Danny all you do in every thread is rant and spew your stupid shit, if you don't like it don't download it, and its not just this thread, your always babbling on how idiotic a composer is, hey guess what? harry gregson williams doesn't give a shit what you think. its pointless for you to be coming in here and calling him a hack.

And Lets face it, do you think a composer always decides on how to score the films? no, because the director is telling them how.

Spew stupid shit? Let the man speak. Last I thought, people weren't being suppressed on this board.

[ShadowOnTheSun]

okay now lets be fair,
its true this isn't a great score and its obvious HGW didn't put too much effort into it (could be partially directors fault too)
I wouldn't say he is a great composer that was just oppressed on this soundtrack(more like he just didn't care) but you can't say he is a bad composer either. I personally find Kingdom of Heaven, Narnia, and other works of his wonderful.

[bi0h4zard]

Harry composed alot of good scores in his lifetime. My favorites are Kingdom of Heaven, Narnia, Deja Vu, Shrek, Spy Game, Gone Baby Gone, Man on Fire, Enemy of the State... and METAL GEAR SOLID! IMO he is very talented... but i must agree, this score was the second blockbuster fail this year (after "star trek"). This is not the Harry we all know... he can much more.

sorry for my bad english xD

[hellrasinbrasin]

Harry composed alot of good scores in his lifetime. My favorites are Kingdom of Heaven, Narnia, Deja Vu, Shrek, Spy Game, Gone Baby Gone, Man on Fire, Enemy of the State... and METAL GEAR SOLID! IMO he is very talented... but i must agree, this score was the second blockbuster fail this year (after "star trek"). This is not the Harry we all know... he can much more.

sorry for my bad english xD

I so agree B104zard This is why I sample soundtrack before I spend 20 - 40 dollars on Soundtracks. That being said there are alot of scores out there that work on screen but as a stand alone read are horrible ex John Williams

[spaceworlder]

Dannyfrench,

Stop taking yourself so seriously. This forum exists for sharing music files, not as a platform for your overlong and unwanted music criticism. If you want to ramble about how much you hate modern film music, you can do it in the "Non Video Game / Animu Music Forum". These threads are for people who want to share the music they like and people who enjoy that music and want to thank those who share it. So, of course these threads are going to be dominated by fans of said albums and composers. If you can't stand these threads, don't read or post in them. If you're bothered by other people's praise of music you dislike...well, you need to get over yourself.

[Ruffneck]

I don't know what is wrong with me, but I find this score to be an okay for me. I mean I enjoy it, nothing is wrong with it.

Expecting him doing something for Call of Duty Modern Warfare 2. I'm sure that will be sweet.

[JRL3001]

Thanks for sharing the music! The quality of the copy is nice and clear! But I have to agree, the soundtrack is really not impressive at all, which is a bit of a letdown. A lot of it sounds the same and doesn't scream awesome like the earlier X-Men soundtracks! Which is too bad because Harry Gregson-Williams has done some totally awesome music in the past!

That said, it isn't a completely BAD soundtrack either. I have listen to some real bad ones in my time and those just get deleted right off the bat :P This one will stick around, as it will work for good background music when gaming ('Specially for rounds of Silver Age Sentinels and Spycraft=) )

[bi0h4zard]

I don't know what is wrong with me, but I find this score to be an okay for me. I mean I enjoy it, nothing is wrong with it.

Expecting him doing something for Call of Duty Modern Warfare 2. I'm sure that will be sweet.

omfg... i totally forget CoD4! Thank you :D
But so sad there is only a complete gamerip for this score :(

[089julian]

Well, the soundtrack is not so bad!
But a little longer were also good!
Thank you for this.

[tangotreats]

Dannyfrench,

Stop taking yourself so seriously.

I don't.

This forum exists for sharing music files, not as a platform for your overlong and unwanted music criticism.

It does? I thought we were hear to learn persian weaving! Dammit, if only they'd label these places more clearly!

Seriously though, I know - this forum exists for sharing music. I don't use it as a platform for anything; I simply state if I like or dislike something. So far I think the people who appreciate me doing this vastly outweigh the whining ninnies who don't like it for whatever reason.

Define overlong and define unwanted.

There are many people here who would disagree with both.

If you want to ramble about how much you hate modern film music, you can do it in the "Non Video Game / Animu Music Forum".

Ramble? Who? Where? Have you actually read my initial post?

Somebody thought this was the temp score. I said that it wasn't - it was actually the real score, and I thought it wasn't very good, and that this was a shame. I only got into music criticism when OrangeC decided to piss on me for having an opinion.

And pardon me for thinking that, in a thread where you can download the score to X-Men Origins, it was actually not a bad idea to stimulate a discussion about the score to X-Men Origins.

Some people find it interesting to read a critique (or praise) for the music they're about to download.

If they don't, well they don't have to read it, now do they? ;)

These threads are for people who want to share the music they like and people who enjoy that music and want to thank those who share it. So, of course these threads are going to be dominated by fans of said albums and composers.

Does it really hurt these fans so badly to hear that somebody doesn't think they're that wonderful?

In a thread where all you usually get it "COOL" / "THX!!!" / "LINK DEAD RE-UP PLS!" you think it's a BAD THING that somebody is actually talking about the quality (or lack thereof) of the music?

Crikey...

If you can't stand these threads, don't read or post in them. If you're bothered by other people's praise of music you dislike...well, you need to get over yourself.

Obviously you haven't read my posts once again; you're just jumping on the bandwagon that thinks it's cool to bash me because I have more than two braincells.

Why is "If you can't stand these threads, bugger off" perfectly valid, but my counter statement of "If you're not interested in discussing the music, just download the damn thing and stop moaning" NOT valid, and indicative of me being full of myself?

Just to clarify ONCE AGAIN (as if this isn't already clear enough by my posts thus far):

I am not bothered by people praising music I don't like. I don't give a damn if you like something I don't.

What I object to is when you all start pissing on ME for denigrating music I don't like.

I am sick to death of this "If you don't like it, fuck off" nonsense.

If you don't like me not liking it, YOU fuck off! ;)

Double standards and absolute horseshit to boot.

Edit: To all the people who want to talk bollocks - do you realise that every time you do this, you divert this thread off topic? There's some quite interesting discussion going on -- ABOUT THE MUSIC in case you didn't notice -- but then some clever sod comes along and turns it into a mudslinging contest... whilst simultaneously accusing ME of talking bollocks in a thread which was allegedly created for NO PURPOSE other than to blindly adore whatever is being posted!

If it wasn't so pathetic, it'd be funny...

[Edit Again: Why are you all picking on me? I'm not the only person who hates this damn score, and I'm certainly not the only person who's said as much in this thread. And what I've said about it ("crap") isn't anywhere near as strong as what other people have said - "utter crap" / "generic filler" / "bland, generic, boring, unoriginal" / "disappointment" / "garbage" / "epic fail" "There is NOTHING interesting about the entire score at all" -- all comments I completely agree with but were NOT MADE BY ME! Come on guys, spread the hate around - don't just give it all to me.]

[tao_of_the_rose]

This is becoming a noticeable pattern, yeah.

[Denny]

Alright lads, calm it down now. You can have a debate without getting rude. Any more of this and I'll have to lock the thread and report some people.

Just keep it civil guys. :)

[tangotreats]

Are you a moderator, sir? Don't see you guys around these parts too often...!

[Denny]

Yes, I am.

I mainly move threads around and if I get a complaint, which in this case I did, I pop in to see what's what.

[Jessie]

I need to say something on this issue.

The guy is entitled to his opinion and is also allowed to say what he thinks. I read his first post and found nothing wrong about it. If this is a recurring problem that everyone has with his comments, then don't read them, it's better than falling out with someone for stating what he feels about certain soundtracks/scores.

Everyone just needs to calm down in this thread and should be allowed to discuss the good and bad points to the soundtrack.

Debate is good, giving someone grief for their opinion isn't.


Edit: Sorry Denny, i didn't see you had already takin care of it.

[OrangeC]

Thats true jessie but he keeps on with his wall of text pattern and its really annoying.

But anyway im done talking to dannyfrench. he just has a high horse attitude that i simply don't like.

[tangotreats]

Just like to state at this point: I have no desire to piss people off and I always respect the original poster, even if I don't like what he posted. I find it a great deal more interesting to read some discussion about the music in threads like this rather than just a big long list of gratitude. If people are discussing it - whether that be criticism or praise - then it's helpful, and in some cases educational. We all download something and talk about it. You don't have to look far down the forum to see examples of some wonderful debates that have occured and I know I speak truthfully when I say I've learned a lot and made some good friends as a result of participating in them.

If people don't want to talk about it, or they feel uncomfortable with knowing that the music isn't universally loved, this isn't anybody's fault (certainly not mine) and I certainly don't believe is any reason to tell me (or anybody) to shove off.

And finally, if I have been rude at all in this thread (or any other) then I consider it a direct result of provocation and of being generally tired at defending myself against these ridiculous onslaughts time and time again. That said, if I've offended any of the more level-headed participants in this thread, I apologise.

Peace and love, gentlemen!

[Edit: OrangeC - I'm sorry if you find discussion annoying, but if this thread is anything to go by, by far the majority of people find it educational, useful, amusing, interesting, or all of the above. Personally, I find blind praise annoying. I find it annoying when people try to squash somebody's opinion just because it's controversial. But I don't moan about it; only when challenged here.]


But anyway im done talking to dannyfrench. he just has a high horse attitude that i simply don't like.

Well, that's up to you - I personally don't think I have that kind of attitude; if I do, it only comes out when I feel that I am mistreated. I have endless respect for you and what you give to the community (your thread is one of the few here that can truly be called epic, without a hint of hyperbole) and I thought that we'd had some fun discussions in the past. If you dislike me that much, obviously I've missed the boat on that one...

Edit again: Without wishing to cause more trouble, I resent the general feeling that I have done something wrong, or that the moderators are here to bring ME into line. Please could we clarify WHO is being reported and for what?]

[Denny]

Good.

I'm not taking sides in the matter I just don't want to see anyone for whatever reason stop coming to this place because of how these kinds of arguments play out. I got a complaint and had to respond.

Now no more of this, just enjoy the soundtrack and try to keep future debates a little more friendly. This goes to both sides of the argument btw.

[tangotreats]

Despite the fact that I remain more convinced than ever that I have commited no crime (and by extension am slightly perterbed at being included in the slapped-wrists group) I wholeheartedly thank the moderator for being the voice of reason here.

My part in the argument is concluded and I'm off to listen to this damn thing again to see if I can find something to like about it. ;)

[spaceworlder]

Seriously though, I know - this forum exists for sharing music. I don't use it as a platform for anything; I simply state if I like or dislike something. So far I think the people who appreciate me doing this vastly outweigh the whining ninnies who don't like it for whatever reason.


Nothing wrong with liking or disliking something. My objection is to your tendency to instigate long, drawn-out debates in a place where they don't belong.


Define overlong and define unwanted.


This response you wrote to my post.


Somebody thought this was the temp score. I said that it wasn't - it was actually the real score, and I thought it wasn't very good, and that this was a shame. I only got into music criticism when OrangeC decided to piss on me for having an opinion.


It sounded to me like OrangeC was irritated about something you wrote in a previous thread. Given the forwardness you've displayed in this and the Gundam 00 thread, I wouldn't be surprised if his outburst were justified.


...it's cool to bash me because I have more than two braincells.


And you wonder why guys like OrangeC "jump" on you?


Why is "If you can't stand these threads, bugger off" perfectly valid, but my counter statement of "If you're not interested in discussing the music, just download the damn thing and stop moaning" NOT valid, and indicative of me being full of myself?


Because, as I said, this forum is primarily for posting links to music, not for in-depth discussions of composers and scores.


If it wasn't so pathetic, it'd be funny...

...

[Edit Again: Why are you all picking on me? ... Come on guys, spread the hate around - don't just give it all to me.]

Because you say things like "if it wasn't so pathetic, it'd be funny" and "i have more than two brain cells". This is also why people think you're full of yourself. You seem incapable of realizing how your forward nature can provoke anger.

EDIT:
This will be my last response to DannyFrench. I don't like chopping and quoting endless walls of text, and I don't want to upset the mods. So I'll just drop it here before this whole thing becomes a cacophany of quote boxes and paragraphs. :-/

[Yéti]

I personnaly think that this forum will die if we just say "Thanks !". We have to criticize, we have to argue about the music we share here.

So, I'm gonnay say thanks... DannyFrench !

[tangotreats]

Nothing wrong with liking or disliking something. My objection is to your tendency to instigate long, drawn-out debates in a place where they don't belong.

Fair enough, but I'd still question whether it's long, drawn out, or doesn't belong. A debate about this score surely has a place in a thread from whence one can download the score...

And, I don't know if you noticed, but I didn't start anything - as I said, all I did initially was answer somebody's question and muse over the fact that the score was a disappointment. The big debates come about because people complain about what I've said, and I try to answer them in depth because it's important to me that people realise where I'm coming from.

It sounded to me like OrangeC was irritated about something you wrote in a previous thread. Given the forwardness you've displayed in this and the Gundam 00 thread, I wouldn't be surprised if his outburst were justified.

I suspect you're right (except about the bit where he is justified!) -- but I really have to point out that, time and time again, my forwardness and lengthy replies are a DIRECT RESULT of getting crap off somebody else. I don't start them of my own volition.

And you wonder why guys like OrangeC "jump" on you?

With respect, I said made that statement in direct reaction TO BEING JUMPED ON. When you're under pressure and you feel like you're being misunderstood, you have a tendency to make outlandish statements.

Because, as I said, this forum is primarily for posting links to music, not for in-depth discussions of composers and scores.

I do not see how one precludes the other from occuring.

If you have threads with music and no debate, the people who enjoy debate lose out.

If you have threads with music and debate, the people who enjoy debate can gain something, and the people who don't care and just want a download, still get their download.

I always considered the debate (when it IS a debate and not a slanging match, as this one became) as a positive bonus. It certainly doesn't hurt anybody; and it gives quite a sizable percentage of people a very real benefit.

Because you say things like "if it wasn't so pathetic, it'd be funny"

That was just my way of trying to highlight how silly the hypocrasy was. I know my sense of humour doesn't go down wonderfully sometimes, but by far the majority of people in this thread have either said "Yeah, thanks!" and moved on (as they usually do) or they've said "I hate the score too!" -- if they don't have a problem with me, then surely I can't be all bad.

And you're quoting things I'm saying and telling me they're the reason people think I'm full of myself...

But you're not noticing that I'm saying these things in direct reaction to the above. I don't start off a conversation by saying "You're all stupid and I'm so much cleverer than you!" and then wonder why I get abuse. I'm not that stupid - I'm stupid, but I have my limits. ;)

I say things like that because I get frustrated. And quite frankly, I believe that people who progagate that attitude (the "like it or go away" attitude that seems so popular around these parts) probably are being a bit stupid.

You're incapable of realizing how your forward nature can provoke anger.

Other people are incapable of realising how their aggressive attempts to shut me up can provoke anger and upset.

I really like this place, and I really like a lot of the people here.

Do you think I love having blazing rows all the time? I really hate it.

And before you moan at me for making another really long rambling post, let me tell you why:

I wanted to comment on everything you said; you took the trouble to say these things and so I wanted to do you the courtesy of responding to the points you made. I'm not trying to me a smartass or impress you with how many words I can type; I'm just trying to be clearer since apparently I haven't managed to convey my true feelings very well thus far.

NOW CAN WE HAVE SOME CAKE?!!!!!!!!!!!! :D :D :D :D

[licenturion]

This is a discussion board, a forum...
So technically it used to DISCUSS about things.

What is the point in just saying 'Thanks'. Opinions are important and interesting to read.

Maybe that's the difference between a music collector and a music lover...

It's nice to read that I'm not the only that finds this score extremely poor...

[spaceworlder]

I'm not saying that opinions aren't welcome, just that these kind of discussions are being misdirected. There's another forum on FFshrine that's better suited for these debates. I don't see why people can't take the quotes and walls of text there.

[cuckoo77]

Harry Gregson Williams should be proud that he sparked so much love in this thread.

[tangotreats]

I'm not saying that opinions aren't welcome, just that these kind of discussions are being misdirected. There's another forum on FFshrine that's better suited for these debates. I don't see why people can't take the quotes and walls of text there.

I don't think so. As I say, for people who don't like the discussions, well, they've still got the download; so they're happy.

Discussions are important to many people. It enhances their enjoyment. Whatever we do that makes people love music more surely can't be a bad thing.

I know it would seem to make sense to put them elsewhere, but it makes more sense to me that one discusses a particular score in the thread you download it from. Maybe that's just me.

Anyway - peace? :)

Harry Gregson Williams should be proud that he sparked so much love in this thread.

This must go down as one of the all time epic threads... Even if "fail" rather than "win" springs to mind... ;)

Ironically I like a lot of HGW's work - but he could've done so much better for this. Anyway... :)

*hands out pieces of chocolate and banana cake that he was busy baking in between having enormous arguments*

:)

[pietastesgood]

Yes, in my opinion HGW can compose a good score, but this one just wasn't that great. It was rather generic. He could have done much better. His work in the Metal Gear Solid series was much better than this.

[Sirusjr]

I just want to say that if you don't like what Dannyfrench posts then ignore him! It's not that hard and I have a few people who I have ignored so that rather than his wall of text you would just see a single line of nothing because you ignored him, problem solved.

[into the storm]

I hate this score. And if it offends someone. I don't care. Its my opinion. They have to grow some balls.

[SONIC_BOI]

Thank you very much my friend! let us know when u need anything from us

[pecosbill]

Ill put in my two cents AFTER I see this movie, considering Ive had this same reaction before on a score before having seen the movie, and then afterwards I actually got it and it clicked, so we'll see...

i still think its video game music, though...

Hey my duck farted and guess what? I'm creating a symphony around it...

[AnikiSan]

Yes!

Thanks

[spaceworlder]

@SergeC:

With that kind of english, I doubt you work for a McDonalds, much less the sound department of a major movie studio.

[spaceworlder]

At first, I doubted a professional film composer would really hang around some obscure forum on the internet. Then I looked over your IMDB credits.

[Haleth]

Damn,this soundtrack suck...

[spaceworlder]

Serge, let me get this straight...

You spend your spare time hanging around message forums, tossing your credentials around, waiting for someone to doubt you so that you can...spring the revelation of being the composer for Spiders II: Breeding Ground.

Well played.

[licenturion]

maybe you don't know that, but a lot of composers are in this place (and many others), a friend of me (who work for Immediate Music) is already on few others posts since one year I think, and he his not alone...


Aha the lawsuit-guy :)

Saw in the past Thomas Bergersen (from Two Steps From Hell) and Jack Wall (from Myst, Mass Effect and Video Game Music Concerts) over here... Maybe there are others too.

Still I think it's cool that most composers DON'T start like "Hey, you steal my music. It costed so much to record. Now you have a lawsuit and you will burn forever". If a cpmposer comes to this place it has to be to check if people like his work or not. If there is only 'Thanks' he doesn't know whats good or whats bad.

[spaceworlder]

I'm a college student right now, but I hope to one day aspire to a nobler profession than scoring Operation Delta Force 5. Anyways, you seem like a nice and good humored guy, Serge, so I'll lay off with the burns.

I'm surprised that actual composers visit this place.

[darknightor]

Well i like more reading this thread than listening to this disappointing soundtrack.

[licenturion]

L
yes, and few others friends from Immediate Music, and as I know someone from X-Ray Dog too (that would be Inon Zur, but I can't confirm), but if I don't starting with a "you steal my music" it's because (except the now discuss only thread "IMMEDIATE MUSIC/X-RAY DOG) this forum don't contains any of my scores cues ! lol ;) I have only see some of my work over emule and soulseek, still availible by the way as I know...
and if I'm not like Thomas or anyone others on this place it's also because I have always downloaded files over internet, so in this way I goes to be the worst of the hell-bastard if now I do that against downloaders... :)


Well the reality is that everything leaks eventually and is shared on massive scale. Not here anymore. Anytime one place got shut down, 5 other trailer music sharing havens rise. And why is that, because there is a big market for that kind of music. Anyway I'm not gonna start that argument again. I have my vision about trailer music anyway. Because most of the NEW and GOOD tracks can't be bought I have no problems whatsoever in downloading or trading that kind of music. And at this very moment everybodys eyes are looking for TFOAC4 and their is a massive hunt going on...

What I always wanted to know for future discussions. If you compose a soundtrack for a movie, do you get a one time fee for writing, orchestrating the score? Or do you receive money from soundtrack albums sales as well?

I just wonder about it cause when I buy a good soundtrack legally I want that a part of my money goes to the artists and not only to 'the suits'...

[licenturion]

like I have said, I prefer do not continue with the trailer music sharing problems... :)

...what I can tell you, is, I actualy work with IM ;) ..so don't howl at who want to hear that you looking for TFOAC4... lol


For your question, yes I get a one time fee for writing scores, like 95% of the film music industries.... it's a chance, if not when you are rejected from a project you don't have pay for your unused work... :)

Usualy, except if you can read album produced by on the CD, the composer never get any dollars for the disc you going to buy, by exemple if you brought at The Reaping by John Frizzell, half of the monney goes to the label varese sarabande and the second half goes to Warner Bros and Dark Castle Entertainemant's producers, but not 1 sent in the pocket of John Frizzell... :)

so what part of your money goes to the artists and not only to 'the suits' ??

absolutly nothing !!! :D


the trailer music have not the same rules in other way...

cheers

About TFOAC4: I'm not afraid stating that we are hunting for this. I have patience and patience always pays off. Trust me :)

About my question: Hmm, I already thought so. All I can say is that is not fair for the artist. If a score is commercially released he should at least get 30% of each sale. But I already thought so that you write music and give the licence and all the rights to the studio. And thats a shame cause composers will work harder IMO if they receive added revenue from sales.

What I don't understand though is that you care about the fact that your music isn't shared here. You say you don't get extra revenue anyway when bought legally...

Anyway: back to X-Men Wolverine, which is a crappy score :)

[spaceworlder]

So after listening to the whole score, I've come to the conclusion that you are all crazy. This is a pretty good score. Not particularly memorable, but a decent listen that doesn't overstay it's welcome. A solid seven or eight out of ten, and probably better than the movie deserves.

[tangotreats]

I haven't seen the movie yet; I'm going to turn it into a date because my fiancee is a captive audience, and actually seems genuinely interested in hearing me wang on about how much I hate Remote Control. ;)

There are indeed a fair few composers kicking about here; and on other message boards. Tilton, Stromberg, and Morgan are at FSM (and MMUK I think) - even Marc Shaiman turned up at MMUK a little while back (to defend himself against accusations made by a small time little squirt who was lying about his credits).

Jack Wall is definitely a member here, although to be fair he did only join up to complain about the piracy of Video Games Live. Haven't heard a peep out of him since.

Streichorchester is a composer (and a talented one) and there are two, three others hanging around in the Orchestral Action Music Thread.

I am too; although I haven't got any credits nearly as good as "Spiders II" I'm afraid to say - one day hopefully! Ironically, fifty years from now I'll probably end up on X-Men 42 - Rogue's Great Granddaughter Saves The World and they'll force me to use HGW's themes. ;)

[JRL3001]

I'll probably end up on X-Men 42 - Rogue's Great Granddaughter Saves The World and they'll force me to use HGW's themes.

Hey! I'm looking forward to that one O.O'

[drunknmunkey]

New link I found: [Only registered and activated users can see links]

[TalibanFerox]

00

[TalibanFerox]

00

[spaceworlder]

no u

[pecosbill]

OK....The track Wade Goes to Work practicaly identical to his main theme for Man on Fire... This takes me back to the days of James Horner who always riffed his "enemy" motif that he used in that Enemy at the Gates movie back in 01, and been using it ever since....He used it to death in Troy. And THAt movie, I might also add, was thrown at him suddenly and he had to develop a score within a couple months...

Usually stuff like this spells that this work was really a secondary thing for him or rushed. Not a problem, but cmon...people do expect something original - especially for big budget Summer flicks....Iron man at least worked, so why couldn't this one? Oh well...Cant have everything...

I understand why people say it sucks, but I'm still waiting to see how it works in the movie...

[Carlean-Factory]

®

[tangotreats]

OK....The track Wade Goes to Work practicaly identical to his main theme for Man on Fire... This takes me back to the days of James Horner who always riffed his "enemy" motif that he used in that Enemy at the Gates movie back in 01, and been using it ever since....He used it to death in Troy. And THAt movie, I might also add, was thrown at him suddenly and he had to develop a score within a couple months...

Usually stuff like this spells that this work was really a secondary thing for him or rushed. Not a problem, but cmon...people do expect something original - especially for big budget Summer flicks....Iron man at least worked, so why couldn't this one? Oh well...Cant have everything...

I understand why people say it sucks, but I'm still waiting to see how it works in the movie...


I think it's a bit hard to get 100% originality in music. Everybody is influenced by somebody else. That's not really the issue.

The issue is personality and expression of emotion - that's something that even Horner has in spades, and I don't find with HGW and most of the other MV guys. Their styles are basically interchangeable - only in their works that I do enjoy (Zimmer's DaVinci Code, Powell's X-Men, HGW's Sinbad) is there a vague sensation of the composer's personality.

I think the problem with this is - in addition to the unimaginative electronics, completely cliched style, non-existent themes, and almost unprecedented (for HGW anyway) plagiarism - is that it doesn't actually serve any musical or emotional purpose, beyond existing. It's film music at the most basic level; noise to happen while you're watching the film. No doubt it functions perfectly well in the movie - and from what I've heard, the movie is almost as risible as the score - and that's an excuse wheeled out time and time again. "Good enough" is NEVER good enough - you could drop any track from this score into any other movie and nobody would notice.

As I say, you know your score is soulless when nobody is entirely sure whether they're listening to the temp track or the finished album!

Sad, really... As I've said before, I'm not the biggest fan of Kamen's first score (he was going through a stylistic shift at the time that just didn't suit the film, and had his efforts further diluted by the ubiquitous Klaus Badelt and his drum-loop library) nor Ottman's amateurish second - but at least he had a theme and at least his score was doing something beyond simply existing.

Powell's Last Stand was in many ways a miracle of modern scoring; a surprisingly robust orchestral presence, memorable lyricism, a very grand sensibility, and a keen emotional presence. That score didn't just hide in the background, merely existing - it worked for the film, and the film worked for it; they both enhances each other.

This score, on the contrary, doesn't do much except make me mad at the thought that HGW earned more money for this piece of trash than I do in TWENTY YEARS working at my day job...

[Edit: Horner's been using his "Danger motif" since 1981! And it's actually from Prokofiev's Alexander Nevsky (as is most of his early eighties scoring.]

[Yéti]

I wonder if the motif "ta da da daaaa" was not used for the first time in Brainstorm... during Nathalie Wood's attack.

And in Troy it's just all over the place. It was awful... I missed Yared score sooooo much !
Horner had a couple of weeks to write the sh*tty music but Goldenthal did Interview with the Vampire in 12 days ! Therefore : Goldenthal > Horner.

[katie price]

Why did they felt neccessary to replace George Fenton's score for Interview With The Vampire?

[tangotreats]

I wonder if the motif "ta da da daaaa" was not used for the first time in Brainstorm... during Nathalie Wood's attack.

And in Troy it's just all over the place. It was awful... I missed Yared score sooooo much !
Horner had a couple of weeks to write the sh*tty music but Goldenthal did Interview with the Vampire in 12 days ! Therefore : Goldenthal > Horner.

As I say, that motif is far older than Brainstorm! Horner's been using it since Battle Beyond The Stars (1980) at LEAST. And he nicked it from Alexander Nevsky, which was written by Prokofiev in 1938.

A couple of weeks to write a full score is a tough deadline, but it doesn't mean you're going to get a shitty score; Goldenthal did Vampire in less than two weeks as you say, and Goldsmith wrote one of his finest scores of all time - Chinatown - in ten days. Horner wrote large chunks of Aliens just hours before the recording session. It IS possible; but it DOES take a talented composer. Horner has his detractors, but most people will agree that, even if he IS a thief and a liar, he's also incredibly talented and 99% of his scores are superb listening experiences.

Why did they felt neccessary to replace George Fenton's score for Interview With The Vampire?

Wow, now we're REALLY going off topic! ;)

If I remember correctly, the director was uneasy about the direction Fenton was taking with his score. Fenton was emphassising dark gothic beauty, slow grandeur, etc - and the director was after something more frenetic and traditionally terrifying.

I absolutely adored Fenton's score as music but I do wonder how well it would've functioned in the movie. Goldenthal's work was a masterpiece too.

[pecosbill]

I would have to agree that Golendthal's Vampire score weighs alot better than Troy did in terms of a rushed composition...Didn't realise HOrner used the motif so early in the game and exploited it, but my first realization of this was with Troy and when I heard it I was like WTF?

But yeah, in reviewing the totality of HGWs Wolverine I dare say I look forward to see how the video game soundtrack fares...If it fares better than the movie score then I will most surely stop listening to HGW....He might go so far as to say the economy is to blame, but damn, Tyler Bates did a better score with Watchmen, and he has similar tastes...

Its a shame when, to make up for the lack of nourishment a score should provide on its own, you resort to adding pieces of different music to make up for the loss. Do any of you ever do this? You make a cd of the score but you feel so cheated about the quality that you JUST HAVE TO add something else to it to give it a better tatse?

To mix Wolverine onto a listenable mixed disc I used portions of the score to the Skeleton Key to give Gambit more presence...:(

fawk

That's sad...

[tangotreats]

Haha! I've never done that... If something sucks, it sucks...

The economy is nothing to do with it. Whatever the game score is going to be like (who is scoring it?) you know that its budget will have been 10% of the music budget for the movie...

Great crushing shame.

[Sirusjr]

The game score is by Paul Haslinger and you can grab the PSP and PS2 rips here
[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[t0m s3rvo]

...with 40 messages in more than one year !? :D

ohhh yes, I spend my time for sure.... ;)

Will someone ban this little troll, please?

[spaceworlder]

I know I said I wouldn't respond to DannyFrench anymore, but this is a different topic...


The issue is personality and expression of emotion - that's something that even Horner has in spades, and I don't find with HGW and most of the other MV guys. Their styles are basically interchangeable - only in their works that I do enjoy (Zimmer's DaVinci Code, Powell's X-Men, HGW's Sinbad) is there a vague sensation of the composer's personality.


I haven't heard much of Powell's stuff, but I don't get how anyone could call Zimmer and HGW "interchangeable". I've heard lots of work from both, and they sound little alike aside from sharing some contemporary characteristics. Speaking of which, Media Venture alumnis are studied in the way of Zimmer, much like all modern Disney/Pixar animators can have their methods traced back to Walt and the Old Men. They aren't so much "generic" as sharing a common musical upbringing. Of course, some of the lesser MV guys can be unoriginal, but then there are guys like Djawadi (did I get that right?) and Jablonsky who compose exciting and original material.


I think the problem with this is - in addition to the unimaginative electronics, completely cliched style, non-existent themes, and almost unprecedented (for HGW anyway) plagiarism - is that it doesn't actually serve any musical or emotional purpose, beyond existing. It's film music at the most basic level; noise to happen while you're watching the film. No doubt it functions perfectly well in the movie - and from what I've heard, the movie is almost as risible as the score - and that's an excuse wheeled out time and time again. "Good enough" is NEVER good enough - you could drop any track from this score into any other movie and nobody would notice.


I slightly disagree. It's true that this is a pretty standard MV-style score, but this is far from the worst or least-spirited I have ever heard. Yes, the music isn't entirely memorable, but while I was listening to it I didn't mind the company. A great deal of it was energetic, and the electronic/jazzy stuff, while standard HGW material, is still effective. Maybe I'm lenient when it comes to music, but I can't honestly say I hated Wolverine's score. I doubt I'll be able to say the same about the movie, which is probably the highest praise I can give to HGW.


Powell's Last Stand was in many ways a miracle of modern scoring; a surprisingly robust orchestral presence, memorable lyricism, a very grand sensibility, and a keen emotional presence. That score didn't just hide in the background, merely existing - it worked for the film, and the film worked for it; they both enhances each other.


Um, I can't agree. X-Men 3 was pretty disposable entertainment, and the music didn't etch itself into my mind at all. Maybe I have to hear the music seperate from the movie to appreciate it, because I'm really having trouble remembering a moment where the music and the images came together.

[t0m s3rvo]

Powell's Last Stand was in many ways a miracle of modern scoring; a surprisingly robust orchestral presence, memorable lyricism, a very grand sensibility, and a keen emotional presence. That score didn't just hide in the background, merely existing - it worked for the film, and the film worked for it; they both enhances each other.

It's a shame the movie itself couldn't reflect the awesomeness that is Powell's score. The film just plain sucked.

[OrangeC]

Haha! I've never done that... If something sucks, it sucks...

The economy is nothing to do with it. Whatever the game score is going to be like (who is scoring it?) you know that its budget will have been 10% of the music budget for the movie...

Great crushing shame.

Paul haslinger is doing the score and he actually is a pretty good game composer, now i know you don't really like all the electronic/guitar stuff but maybe you like if your into Video game scores also or just want to give it a chance.

[Lovelace]

Whoo~ O.O that was fast. THe movie came out today and now I see this lovely soundtrack. Thanks for sharing ^-^ dude

[pecosbill]

OK....I saw the film in the theater, and this is what I have to say:

This score ACTUALLY has parts in it where HGW uses a duck's fart as part of the score's ambience. Literally. I kid you not. When I heard it I was like HOLY SHIT. How original....Indeed.

There is a main theme to the movie, but it's the most annoying I have ever heard in a movie of this type. Just a droning crescendo of synth percussion and a female choir. And the Duck's fart....

Yes, I said ducks fart, because it comes in and out and when you hear it you're like WTF did I just hear? What WAS that? A warped synthy guitar riff? Nope. It's a duck's fart.

Danny French is right, peoples. This score SUCKS BALLS. I expected better - at least better (if not the same) than X3. What we got is exactly as DannyFrench describes, and film or no film to back it up, it sounds like an utter waste of time. This was a lazy effort. My advise to most of yo is to buy the soundtrack to Skeleton Key and toss is some Gambit flavor to this crap Gumbo...because the score is lacking. The texture is akin to wet turds. And Im praying to god Haslinger does a better job in the video game soundtrack.


Oh man...I actually laughed when I heard the duck's fart. This score is the kind of score you might hear in a gay porn movie, when one guy is slapping the ass of the other guy he's reaming...

You know - music that makes you wanna do some dog-peeing style type dance....God awful and embarassing porn music.

[Sirusjr]

I saw the film in the theater too and I actually found the score to be fitting most of the time and it wasn't overly loud like Watchmen's score so it didn't bother me. It certainly could have been better but it wasn't horrible and didn't detract from the movie at all.

[spaceworlder]

I don't get why people are feeling the need to antagonize this score so much. I've listened to it twice and have yet to pick up on the "duck fart" in pecosbill's inane rants. It sounds like music to me. ::shrugs::

[pecosbill]

Close in on the "team theme" - it might be in the track Lagos, Nigeria. That funky beat they use with the choir and then you hear the duck fart ambience just peel right through the funk. When I first heard it, I instantly thought of that usual synth guitar riff that these Media Vantures guys use in flicks like Black Hawk Down, but now it's reduced to a little squirt instead of a drone to give that Middle Eastern flair. Sounds like a fart to me...Musically speaking, like one of the instruments just accidentally went off during the scoring session.

aka the duck's fart.

Im not antagonizing the score...I just think it's a cheap rushed job when it should not have been and Im trying to make it stand on its own as a listenable cd, but i just cant do it...I keep wanting to mix OTHER bits of BETTER music to make it work as a cohesive whole.

(example: using selections of Skeleton Key for Gambit's presence, adding in the banjo song in the trailer for Public Enemies, and also ripping Terminator Salvation's rendition of Nine Inch Nails' Day the World Went Away as a "title song" to the cd. It takes alot of work to make a lackluster score enjoyable when most of it just plain sucks as a solo listening experience)

Speaking of which - could someone reup that link to Haslinger's video game score if they find it please?


What can I say, I'm an artist with making mix cds...

[Vess]

Well, it's just as predicted: the workprint score was incomparably better than the actual one is. :D

[OrangeC]

Close in on the "team theme" - it might be in the track Lagos, Nigeria. That funky beat they use with the choir and then you hear the duck fart ambience just peel right through the funk. When I first heard it, I instantly thought of that usual synth guitar riff that these Media Vantures guys use in flicks like Black Hawk Down, but now it's reduced to a little squirt instead of a drone to give that Middle Eastern flair. Sounds like a fart to me...Musically speaking, like one of the instruments just accidentally went off during the scoring session.

aka the duck's fart.

Im not antagonizing the score...I just think it's a cheap rushed job when it should not have been and Im trying to make it stand on its own as a listenable cd, but i just cant do it...I keep wanting to mix OTHER bits of BETTER music to make it work as a cohesive whole.

(example: using selections of Skeleton Key for Gambit's presence, adding in the banjo song in the trailer for Public Enemies, and also ripping Terminator Salvation's rendition of Nine Inch Nails' Day the World Went Away as a "title song" to the cd. It takes alot of work to make a lackluster score enjoyable when most of it just plain sucks as a solo listening experience)

Speaking of which - could someone reup that link to Haslinger's video game score if they find it please?


What can I say, I'm an artist with making mix cds...

I will upload haslinger in my next update.

[pecosbill]

Vess - i was saying the same thing.

Thanks OrangeC...Much obliged.


Oh...Incidentally? The damn VIDEO GAME is better than the frickin MOVIE - it makes MORE damn sense!!!

[Ruffneck]

I don't get why people are feeling the need to antagonize this score so much. I've listened to it twice and have yet to pick up on the "duck fart" in pecosbill's inane rants. It sounds like music to me. ::shrugs::


Yeah, I mean as you can obviously read... Some people are on some drugs, or at least they SHOULD be on some drugs for sure.

If someone hears some "duck's fart" or farts or whatever. Get some fucking help! Get help... and stop posting here!

[hellrasinbrasin]

I can't wait for the audio rip from the game now thats music to my ears

[tangotreats]

I've really got to ask... what is the sound of a duck farting... and how do you know what that would sound like...? ;)

[tangotreats]

I know I said I wouldn't respond to DannyFrench anymore, but this is a different topic...

Haha, good to have you back on board. :)

I'll try to keep this one shortish.

I haven't heard much of Powell's stuff, but I don't get how anyone could call Zimmer and HGW "interchangeable". I've heard lots of work from both, and they sound little alike aside from sharing some contemporary characteristics.

Point taken; I consider them interchangeable in the same way that a Ford Fiesta and a Fiat Uno are interchangeable. They're very different physically and mechanically but ultimately achieve the exact same thing, and with rough
ly similar finesse when compared to, say, an Aston Martin.

Also interchangeable in the sense that you could happily exchange one for the other and not suffer any meaningful artistic gains or losses in the process. I suspect this is the way MV would like to be seen:

MV is a factory. You want your score written by MV; after that, the guy they choose to do the work isn't particularly important; you frequently hear of MV composers swapping assignments; HGW will score a film Powell was on, Powell will take a film Zimmer was on, Zimmer will take a film HGW was on, and etc - and the producers know that they will land up with a very similar score ultimately.

Speaking of which, Media Venture alumnis are studied in the way of Zimmer, much like all modern Disney/Pixar animators can have their methods traced back to Walt and the Old Men. They aren't so much "generic" as sharing a common musical upbringing. Of course, some of the lesser MV guys can be unoriginal, but then there are guys like Djawadi (did I get that right?) and Jablonsky who compose exciting and original material.

Well, define "common musical upbringing" - there's a difference between having similar education and similar experience, and being explicitly trained to write music in a particular, uncomplicated style that is dictated more by a business model and less by any delusions of artistry.

Djawadi has it in him, I think; just listening to "Fly Me To The Moon" you get the feeling that there's more in him than just Iron Man. Jablonsky surprised us all with Steamboy. Deep inside, they're still cut from the MV cloth, but there's more.

I firmly believe these composers are probably better than the scores they're currently writing. Look what happens when one of these guys gets to score something outside of MV / outside of the Hollywood music system / both.

I slightly disagree.

You would. ;)

It's true that this is a pretty standard MV-style score, but this is far from the worst or least-spirited I have ever heard. Yes, the music isn't entirely memorable, but while I was listening to it I didn't mind the company.


No, it's not the worst ever by any stretch of the imagination... But it is, as you say, pretty standard fare. It comes off worse than it is when compared to previous scores; just as Giacchino's Trek score is being ripped to shreds despite being probably the best score of the year.

A great deal of it was energetic, and the electronic/jazzy stuff, while standard HGW material, is still effective.

Effective like a Ford Fiesta is effective for getting me down to the supermarket and back...

Maybe I'm lenient when it comes to music, but I can't honestly say I hated Wolverine's score. I doubt I'll be able to say the same about the movie, which is probably the highest praise I can give to HGW.

That's where I think we can agree wholeheartedly. ;)

Um, I can't agree. X-Men 3 was pretty disposable entertainment, and the music didn't etch itself into my mind at all. Maybe I have to hear the music seperate from the movie to appreciate it, because I'm really having trouble remembering a moment where the music and the images came together.

Some folk have a hard time spotting good music when it's sitting in an absolutely risible film. I completely understand that.

I have a hard time spotting a good film when it's covered in risible music.

Powell's work on X-3 wasn't the greatest score in the world; notice I chose my words carefully: "A miracle of modern scoring" - rough translation, "Well, it's much better than we were expecting and there are glimmers of greatness in there; which is ten times more than you can rightfully expect from a contemporary film score."

It just seemed to me, to be another step in the right direction. Recognition that theme and sophistication can still work in a contemporary film score, rather than just turning on the "epic brass" and the grungy electronics and the ethnic wailing and the drum loops, and hoping that'll do the trick.

Powell more than any of the MV crew, I think, has a Star Wars inside him. It's just a very, VERY tough environment out there in film scoring-land right now and I only hope that he (and HGW and everybody else) get to write the scores they're no doubt capable of.

Peace :)
D

[spaceworlder]

MV is a factory. You want your score written by MV; after that, the guy they choose to do the work isn't particularly important; you frequently hear of MV composers swapping assignments; HGW will score a film Powell was on, Powell will take a film Zimmer was on, Zimmer will take a film HGW was on, and etc - and the producers know that they will land up with a very similar score ultimately.

...

Well, define "common musical upbringing" - there's a difference between having similar education and similar experience, and being explicitly trained to write music in a particular, uncomplicated style that is dictated more by a business model and less by any delusions of artistry.


I don't know if this is as bad as you make it out to be. The idea behind Media Ventures is they're a music company that delivers a specific kind of sound. If a director wants "Crimson Tide", they turn to Zimmer or his pupils. It might be commercial, but so is Hollywood. In any case, we get cool music for our action movies. Zimmer has also used this system to mentor a lot of fresh talent and give them a shot at the big time, so there's certainly a little more than money to it.

And I wouldn't call MV's style uncomplicated. A lot of their music is very layered.



Djawadi has it in him, I think; just listening to "Fly Me To The Moon" you get the feeling that there's more in him than just Iron Man. Jablonsky surprised us all with Steamboy. Deep inside, they're still cut from the MV cloth, but there's more.


And those guys wouldn't have gotten those jobs if it weren't for that music factory you loathed.


No, it's not the worst ever by any stretch of the imagination... But it is, as you say, pretty standard fare. It comes off worse than it is when compared to previous scores; just as Giacchino's Trek score is being ripped to shreds despite being probably the best score of the year.


What's wrong with standard? To me that's like a three-star or B-grade score. It's not great, but it's something I could listen to while going about my business. And I'm holding off on listening to entire Giacchino Trek score until I see the movie, but so far I'm liking the track "End Credits" better than anything Jerry Goldsmith ever wrote for the franchise. :-)
(Not to diss on the great Goldsmith, but his work on Star Trek: The Motion Picture is probably the worst of his wonderful career. The acclaimed theme now seems rigid and uninspiring compared to Giaccino's soaring, heart-felt arrangement of the Alexander Courage theme music.)


Powell's work on X-3 wasn't the greatest score in the world; notice I chose my words carefully: "A miracle of modern scoring" - rough translation, "Well, it's much better than we were expecting and there are glimmers of greatness in there; which is ten times more than you can rightfully expect from a contemporary film score."

It just seemed to me, to be another step in the right direction. Recognition that theme and sophistication can still work in a contemporary film score, rather than just turning on the "epic brass" and the grungy electronics and the ethnic wailing and the drum loops, and hoping that'll do the trick.


I listened to a track from Powell's X-Men 3 this weekend, and while it was nice, I found myself preferring Kamen's work on the original movie. He had this really nice, visceral theme music, which I was disappointed to not hear in The Last Stand. Even Ottman paid homage to it in his X2 Suite, despite his conscious efforts to take the music in a different (and also good) direction.


Powell more than any of the MV crew, I think, has a Star Wars inside him. It's just a very, VERY tough environment out there in film scoring-land right now and I only hope that he (and HGW and everybody else) get to write the scores they're no doubt capable of.


I don't want another Star Wars. I've heard it, it was great, but now I want something different. John Williams can make another Star Wars. I expect modern composers to do something different, because they're...modern. If one generation's great music sounded like another generation's great music, then the world of music would be boring.

And film-scoring has always been a tough gig. You could've asked Jerry Goldsmith about his experience with writing for Alien and Ridley Scott replacing his tracks with temp music, or James Horner and his similar conflict with James Cameron on the sequel. You don't always get to write the music you want, and the music you write doesn't always make it into the movie. It's no different now than it was in the "golden age", whenever you'd date it.

[tangotreats]

I don't know if this is as bad as you make it out to be. The idea behind Media Ventures is they're a music company that delivers a specific kind of sound. If a director wants "Crimson Tide", they turn to Zimmer or his pupils. It might be commercial, but so is Hollywood. In any case, we get cool music for our action movies. Zimmer has also used this system to mentor a lot of fresh talent and give them a shot at the big time, so there's certainly a little more than money to it.

And I wouldn't call MV's style uncomplicated. A lot of their music is very layered.

Well, once upon a time, you went to a particular composer because you knew that s/he would bring something special and unique to your film. You went after that person because it was THEIR style, their technique, their personality that would fit your movie.

And I'm going to disagree with you regarding cool music for action movies, but you knew I would.

Zimmer's factory does give a lot of people a start... but sometimes it gives people who don't deserve a start, a start.

And by filling Hollywood with clones of himself, Zimmer and co are stifling creativity like never before.

And those guys wouldn't have gotten those jobs if it weren't for that music factory you loathed.

They're here and we've got them. They're able to write music that's better than MV. But it would be no great loss to their world if they'd never got their big break. Steamboy was pretty good, FMTTM was pretty good... but they'd have been even better scored by a non MV composer.

... A composer who worked his way through the ranks - who learned music - a composer who went through hell and earned his place in Hollywood by being good - not by being an easily replaced, faceless member of a production company.

What's wrong with standard? To me that's like a three-star or B-grade score. It's not great, but it's something I could listen to while going about my business. And I'm holding off on listening to entire Giacchino Trek score until I see the movie, but so far I'm liking the track "End Credits" better than anything Jerry Goldsmith ever wrote for the franchise. :-)

The thing about standard is that it's easy to be standard. Mediocrity isn't a hard thing to achieve, and it will ultimately not last the test of time.

I don't listen to music in order to provide background noise whilst doing something else. GOOD film music doesn't do the same thing. Yeah, you can write a standard score that just sits there and hammers away in the background, but wonderful things aren't happening.

(Not to diss on the great Goldsmith, but his work on Star Trek: The Motion Picture is probably the worst of his wonderful career. The acclaimed theme now seems rigid and uninspiring compared to Giaccino's soaring, heart-felt arrangement of the Alexander Courage theme music.)


I'm certainly going to disagree strongly with you here! I consider Goldsmith TMP (as do quite a few people) to be the absolute pinnacle of his career. The reasons why are far too lengthy (and off topic) to discuss here.

Giacchino's score is by the numbers, one dimensional music. It simply cannot be compared (in any meaningful, realistic way) with Goldsmith's.

Come on... Giacchino's "arrangement" of the Courage theme is nothing more than thickening out an existing melody for big orchestra and big choir, and throwing some silly percussion on top. Heartfelt? How can you tell? There's no heart in it; it's a completely by-the-numbers arrangement of something that already exists; and IMHO sucks all the life and heart from a piece of music that already HAD plenty.

I listened to a track from Powell's X-Men 3 this weekend, and while it was nice, I found myself preferring Kamen's work on the original movie. He had this really nice, visceral theme music, which I was disappointed to not hear in The Last Stand. Even Ottman paid homage to it in his X2 Suite, despite his conscious efforts to take the music in a different (and also good) direction.

Kamen's score had problems but I still believe it's probably the better score musically speaking. Ottman - well, what can you say? He's an editor, not a composer. Yet another "musician" who actually knows sod-all about music and would be absolutely nowhere without his temp track and his army of orchestrators.

I don't want another Star Wars. I've heard it, it was great, but now I want something different. John Williams can make another Star Wars. I expect modern composers to do something different, because they're...modern. If one generation's great music sounded like another generation's great music, then the world of music would be boring.

I meant something of the QUALITY and intelligence of Star Wars. Something that we'd still be talking about thirty years down the line.

Not some piece of generic, "standard" trash that - mark my words - will have completely disappeared from consciousness within months.

Modern composers could create something different and worthwhile - if they were actually composers; if they had any musical skill. I'm not seeing this. It's not hard to see why - as I've said before, film music isn't an art any more - it's a business. Music isn't composed; it's produced, manufactured, generated.

I'm all for great music.

What I'm NOT for is shitty music being heralded as the most wonderful thing on earth by people who aren't qualified to make that judgement.

And film-scoring has always been a tough gig. You could've asked Jerry Goldsmith about his experience with writing for Alien and Ridley Scott replacing his tracks with temp music, or James Horner and his similar conflict with James Cameron on the sequel. You don't always get to write the music you want, and the music you write doesn't always make it into the movie. It's no different now than it was in the "golden age", whenever you'd date it.

Once ahain - YES, I know - I do it! I consider myself lucky if half the music I write for a project actually ends up being used. More often than not some moron (usually the producer) decides they know better and you go along with it, or you get replaced completely.

The point is, even with the hell Goldsmith went through on Alien, the hell Horner went through on Aliens, etc - the one thing that always happened was that intelligent, educated, talented musicians wrote music for film.

It IS much, much more different now than it was, for the following reasons:

a) Whilst previously, composers had conflicts with directors and with studios, ultimately (with a few exceptions) they were writing their own music.

b) Composers were talented individuals who knew music theory, could handle a symphony orchestra, and knew how to evoke mood through music. They understood that it wasn't all about making noise to go with images; it was about getting inside the film, about living with the characters.

c) If you were no good, you didn't work. If you got work, it was because you'd proven yourself.

d) Composers were getting jobs, not production companies.

d) Composers weren't being told what to write or how to write it.

e) Yes, composers used orchestrators and copyists... But you know that they would be able to do these jobs themselves if time permitted!

There are more reasons; I'm sure somebody can help me out here. It's a recognised fact that the scoring industry has gone completely to hell in the last fifteen, twenty years. Most of it is caused directly and indirectly by Hans Zimmer and his cookie cutter score factory.

I don't want another argument - and it seems like we may end up having one since our views are so different on a variety of topics...

[spaceworlder]

Well, once upon a time, you went to a particular composer because you knew that s/he would bring something special and unique to your film. You went after that person because it was THEIR style, their technique, their personality that would fit your movie.


I don't see how that isn't the case anymore. Do you think Chris Nolan and J.J. Abrams had Hans Zimmer and Michael Giaccino thrust upon them? No. These guys were sought out for their sound and approach to music. There are still unique styles and identities out there, and that is what still drives the creative decision for hiring a composer.


Zimmer's factory does give a lot of people a start... but sometimes it gives people who don't deserve a start, a start.


Who are you to say that? If someone has the talent and perseverance to rise through the ranks of any organization, Media Ventures or not, they certainly deserve the shot they worked for.


... A composer who worked his way through the ranks - who learned music - a composer who went through hell and earned his place in Hollywood by being good - not by being an easily replaced, faceless member of a production company.


How do MV members not work for their shot? If I'm not mistaken, they too had to learn music. They too have to rise through the ranks of their organization by meeting the standards of whoever hired them. Is it your opinion of what "good" is? Maybe not, but they still have to meet some kind of standards, so in that way they're no different from non-MV composers.

And faceless? These are young talent. Not even John Williams and Jerry Goldsmith started out as John Williams and Jerry Goldsmith. They were once generic and, yes, "faceless" too. They too had to write "standard" scores before they got onboard the projects that put them on the map.


The thing about standard is that it's easy to be standard. Mediocrity isn't a hard thing to achieve, and it will ultimately not last the test of time.


I think you're mistaking adequate for "mediocre". Maybe HGW's Wolverine is not the kind of stuff that becomes iconic, but it's certainly good enough for the moment. Not everything can be "Lawrence of Arabia", but just because something isn't doesn't mean it can't be worthwhile.


I'm certainly going to disagree strongly with you here! I consider Goldsmith TMP (as do quite a few people) to be the absolute pinnacle of his career. The reasons why are far too lengthy (and off topic) to discuss here.


He's done way better, before and since. I won't deny the score is good, because it is, even in spite of its overly gaudy theme. That's Jerry Goldsmith for you. However, he's written music that's far more haunting, far more moving, and far more fun than Star Trek. I'll take Chinatown, Alien, Rambo, or Gremlins any day over ST:TMP.


Come on... Giacchino's "arrangement" of the Courage theme is nothing more than thickening out an existing melody for big orchestra and big choir, and throwing some silly percussion on top. Heartfelt? How can you tell? There's no heart in it; it's a completely by-the-numbers arrangement of something that already exists; and IMHO sucks all the life and heart from a piece of music that already HAD plenty.


No piece of music has better embodied the optimism and magic of Star Trek. The way the Enterprise theme powerfully builds, the angelic choir performing the iconic vocals... Alexander Courage would be very damn proud. I don't know how someone could not be moved by this track, and I haven't even seen it in context to the movie yet.


What I'm NOT for is shitty music being heralded as the most wonderful thing on earth by people who aren't qualified to make that judgement.


Again, who are you to say this? There's nothing more subjective than music. If someone can be moved by it, they're qualified to judge it.

[tangotreats]

[Edit: I'm sorry - I'm worn out with this. I've made my feelings known and as clearly as I know how.No further comments.

"Interesting game. The only winning move is not to play." - WOPR, Wargames, 1983.]

[pecosbill]

If you havent heard a duck's fart then man are you in for a treat.

[remblue]

Thanks for the soundtrack :) I just saw the movie this weekend

[Biggs v.2]

Hello all, first time poster long time lurker...

This exploding topic of uninformed opinions was so mind-numbingly amateur, I had to pop my nose in and settle a couple of things straight for those of you who think they know about the process of film scoring.

I'm not going to throw credentials around, you can take this as you wish. My intentions upon posting are simply to set a couple of things straight and some insanely hypocritical opinions from some may perhaps be a little more educated in the future.

Scoring a Film

For those uneducated; this is a process that does NOT just involve the composer. If you think HGW (for example) had final say in his score. You're (plain and simple) an idiot. You void any opinions if you truly honestly believe that what score you hear during a film is any indication of what the artist wanted. For a score to be submitted and approved, it goes through the following people (not in order)

- Director
- Producer/s
- Studio Execs

This is not the case on all major motion pictures - however, in the case of "Wolverine" I'm willing to bet my house that all 3 were involved in the scoring process, especially on such a huge film for FOX. HGW would also have the added burden of not working on an X-Men film before, having a director/producer in LOVE with an existing score template (or temp-track) during the film and any number of studio notated-requests for the score to "Plz sund like Teh Dark nite l0l11"

Therefore, to rag on HGW and his score (which you may or may not perceive to be bad) and lay ultimate and total blame for his "uncreative" score at his feet, is sorely, totally and thoroughly uneducated and amatuer.

Very few composers have total control over what they ultimately score (and what makes it into the film no less) for a studio picture. John Williams and Hans Zimmer would be the only two composers I am aware of, who have over 50% input and say into how a motion picture is scored. Most directors these days will defer to composers for ideas - but have the final say on the end product. If the director ultimately wants the music to sound like "Autobots Arrive" by Steve Jablonsky - then that’s what the artist will provide. Plain and Simple.

Temp track on the "leaked" work print being "Better" than the HGW score

This is ridiculous - I've seen this statement more than once and will quickly address it. The temp track was AWFUL because it had absolutely no place in the film - it was music composed by Steve Jablonsky for Transformers. Just because you hear it on ESPN or used as a temp track doesn't mean it WORKS or sounds "Teh Awesome" it is simply used as a placeholder for what the film makers/director would want the scenes to convey emotionally in music form. Which is why the same cue (Autobots Arrive/Variations) was used over and over again during the temp-track process. Because that's the TONE they wanted to portray. Not the exact score for the film.

Now (as said above) Directors/Producers can fall in love with the temp track (See; Spiderman 3/Attack of the Clones/Jacksons King Kong) and ultimately seek the rights to that particular music, have the composer score similar to the temp track or even have the composer replaced. Any of those 3 things can happen and DO happen regularly. This isn't necessarily a bad thing - it just happens (and more often than you think) on MAJOR studio tent-pole films. Again, to lay the blame at the foot of the composer is ridiculous and uneducated. They, ultimately, do not have final say in their product.

Final Thoughts

HGW's "Wolverine" score isn't cinema magic. But its purpose is not supposed to be. Again, I've read he re-uses similar thematic devices used in previous scores (Man On Fire, I remember reading). Again - he was HIRED for a job, the director will therefore have heard his work and say 'oh, btw - that cue during Man on fire was awesome...can we have something similar'

It's exactly the same whether you're a painter, builder, composer or any kind of work where you have a back-catalogue of really cool material. People will recognise you for that and sometimes, want something similar.

"Kayla" is the best track on the HGW scored "Wolverine" because it's absolutely beautiful and conveys emotion totally different to the Jablonsky-scored Transformers. It's fantastic, similar - but different. You can see how an artist can get his "fill" of creativity while staying true to the directors’ vision. This is a fine line a composer walks - he wants to stay original - but also keep his job. So you find room during the score to win that battle. But you can't win it all the time.

So again, calling HGW a "Hack" or "Repetitive" is plain and simply idiotic. It shows a complete lack of knowledge about the film process as an individual - and as a group is shows a pack-mentality of naivety.

Enjoy the score for what it is - ultimately you are all downloading it for free. So the irony is, while you may not like it nor understand the process that happens to make it, you're quite happy to slag it off.

Opinons are indeed free.

This is mine.

[tao_of_the_rose]

Quite possibly the greatest first-post ever.

[spaceworlder]

I concur.

[Biggs v.2]

Ha! Thanks guys. Should I post more often?

I just felt I needed to weigh in with some sensible thoughts as opposed to planting my head violently onto the keyboard.

[spaceworlder]

The more the merrier, especially if every post is as thoughtful as that one.

[licenturion]

Never before has a thread of a score in the download section provoked so much opinions about several matters. I think it's great and hope this happens more often instead of just everybody saying 'Thanks'. I can't wait for the opinions on Angels & Demons which is going to leak in a few days.

As for MV. They have some 'fun' music. But it's not in any way artistic. It's just a shame that many directors and producers find this generic music so great. But then again I understand they want crappy music for their crappy movie.

Cause in reality if you would disable the 'drum loop kit' and 'epic brass' in all of MV their tracks almost nothing of the music will remain.

It's a bit like the trailer scoring process these days. Movie companies want screaming choir, percussion and a lot of stingers and hits. All the rest doesn't matter. According to them it evokes emotion with the audience. Most of the time however it doesn't work for me cause when I see 5 trailers, they all sound the same...

But then again, it's the same with blockbuster movies altogether. 9 out of 10 times the big budget movies suck these days. No orginality, character progression or a good plot. Only cool looking special effects. Sure they are 'fun' to much but they will never be in my 'Best 10 movies ever' list...

So it's just a matter of taste. Some like generic, some like more alternative styles.

[diamondback]

thank you

[spaceworlder]

Okay, just wanted to respond to this...


Cause in reality if you would disable the 'drum loop kit' and 'epic brass' in all of MV their tracks almost nothing of the music will remain.


This is such a cheap argument. You might as well say that if you remove the 'moving strings' from any John Williams score, none of the music remains. Of course not, because these are the sounds used to make the music, and if you remove one layer then the track as a whole begins to vanish.

So you hate the drum loop and emphasis on brass hits. Okay, fine. But dismissing those elements as 'not real music' is simply asinine.

[Biggs v.2]

As for MV. They have some 'fun' music. But it's not in any way artistic. It's just a shame that many directors and producers find this generic music so great

Media Ventures doesn't exist anymore. Remote Control (of which you're referring) is Hans Zimmer's production company ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) of which HGW and others come under the umbrella of.

Referring to Media Ventures is again, uneducated and incorrect.

I will say this of Remote Control; Hans Zimmer is doing more for upcoming artists than any other composer currently in the film industry. Whether you like his music or not, this is a style (Like Mozart, Beethoven) of the times and which film makers currently want in their movies.

Styles of film composition (John Williams, et-al) are on a comeback in the likes of the Wonderful Giacchino and I totally agree that it would be disappointing if all we got were Hans Zimmer knock-off templates in our movies.

Remote Control does a lot of good work and provides talented individuals opportunities they might not otherwise receive. I for one, would rather have Harry Gregson Williams composing scores for movies than not, regardless of however watered down his latest release may or may not be.

I would also disagree with your assessment that Remote Control produced scores are any less "artistic" than other work out there. You'll find (at the link previously provided) a list of very talented individuals who have as a group, many awards and great scores for many films between them.

The music is only as "Generic" as the Directors vision for the film.

Not every movie is directed by Steven Spielberg*







*one of the best soundtrack collaborators on record.

[tangotreats]

Hello all, first time poster long time lurker...

This exploding topic of uninformed opinions was so mind-numbingly amateur, I had to pop my nose in and settle a couple of things straight for those of you who think they know about the process of film scoring.

I'm not going to throw credentials around, you can take this as you wish. My intentions upon posting are simply to set a couple of things straight and some insanely hypocritical opinions from some may perhaps be a little more educated in the future.

I hope this isn't directed at me.

Scoring a Film

For those uneducated; this is a process that does NOT just involve the composer. If you think HGW (for example) had final say in his score. [SNIP for brevity - nobody needs to see the entire paragraph again.] If the director ultimately wants the music to sound like "Autobots Arrive" by Steve Jablonsky - then that’s what the artist will provide. Plain and Simple.

This is a point that really needs making; it's a sorry state of affairs, but it's the way it is. I'm tempted to say that now is worse than ever in this area, for a composer. Never before has the composer had so many influences, concerns, political wrangles, and interferences that have absolutely nothing to do with writing music.

Though there are two issues at work.

a) Composers have less freedom.
b1) Composers are less skilled. or
b2) Composers are skilled but the lack of freedom precludes them from exercising it.

A good composer will at least try to maintain some individuality and uniqueness in his music whilst also satisfying the requirements foisted upon him by the director/studio/whatever.

Directors have never said to their composers "I want you to write something that will be remembered for fifty years!" - they've said, "Here's a movie, we want some music to play in it please."

A composer is handed a brief of what the music is going to achieve, but the notes that go down on the manuscript paper and are placed before the orchestra; those are his responsibility.

If you briefed me to write a story about a mouse who got chased by a cat, there's a temptation for me to go "Once upon a time there was a mouse who lived in a house with a cat. The cat chased the mouse. Eventually he caught the mouse and ate him for dinner. The End" and there you go, I've satisfied those requirements at the most basic level.

But what if I take that idea and use it as a seed for greater things? I still keep the original brief in mind but I'm using artistry to enhance an idea.

That's what writing music is about - creativity, and yes, creativity can even flourish within confines.

Obviously in an ideal world, composers would be allowed to do what they do best; but this isn't an ideal world and now CERTAINLY isn't an ideal period to be working as a film composer.

This is ridiculous - I've seen this statement more than once and will quickly address it. The temp track was AWFUL because it had absolutely no place in the film - it was music composed by Steve Jablonsky for Transformers. Just because you hear it on ESPN or used as a temp track doesn't mean it WORKS or sounds "Teh Awesome" it is simply used as a placeholder for what the film makers/director would want the scenes to convey emotionally in music form. Which is why the same cue (Autobots Arrive/Variations) was used over and over again during the temp-track process. Because that's the TONE they wanted to portray. Not the exact score for the film.

I didn't understand this either; I think people saying this were evaluating the music on a completely visceral level - the music excited them more than what eventually ended up as the original score.

I'd say that HGW's work on this movie doesn't have a lot of place in the film either; there is nothing that particularly ties it to the movie and it is, by and large, a completely prototypical piece of modern film scoring.

Any of those 3 things can happen and DO happen regularly. This isn't necessarily a bad thing - it just happens (and more often than you think) on MAJOR studio tent-pole films. Again, to lay the blame at the foot of the composer is ridiculous and uneducated. They, ultimately, do not have final say in their product.

No, and if they try to make an issue of it, they get thrown off the film even faster. It happens for daft reasons; score rejections happen for a lot of reasons, but I'm willing to bet that "music was crap / composer was an arsehole" isn't the most frequently encountered reason.

Composers get thrown off movies fairly routinely; it happens to everybody. The only person I don't think it's ever happened to is John Williams!

This is why - in addition to blaming the composer (for whilst it's true that it's not exclusively his responsibility, it is SOME of his responsibility!) I am always keen to blame the system that causes this kind of nonsense.

HGW's "Wolverine" score isn't cinema magic. But its purpose is not supposed to be. Again, I've read he re-uses similar thematic devices used in previous scores (Man On Fire, I remember reading). Again - he was HIRED for a job, the director will therefore have heard his work and say 'oh, btw - that cue during Man on fire was awesome...can we have something similar'

Well, define "supposed to be" - I doubt that any film score is written with the view to being cinema magic; it's something that just happens - usually when a skilled composer goes the extra mile and everybody else involved with the picture is on board with his ideas... And they don't sack him and replace him with Klaus Badelt. ;)

It's exactly the same whether you're a painter, builder, composer or any kind of work where you have a back-catalogue of really cool material. People will recognise you for that and sometimes, want something similar.

Indeed - though it would be a sad job if you were a builder and somebody said "You know that building you built last week? Can you do the exact same thing here but paint the door blue instead of red?"

If people were still going after composers for their unique sound, things wouldn't be so bad.

The problem is, people are going after composers who can emulate the MV / RC sound.

You can see how an artist can get his "fill" of creativity while staying true to the directors’ vision. This is a fine line a composer walks - he wants to stay original - but also keep his job. So you find room during the score to win that battle. But you can't win it all the time.

You DO try to win; and sometimes you don't. The problem now is I think composers don't WANT to stay original, or they CAN'T - they just want to take the money and bugger off. That's great from a business perspective, but isn't so great from an artistic perspective.

So again, calling HGW a "Hack" or "Repetitive" is plain and simply idiotic. It shows a complete lack of knowledge about the film process as an individual - and as a group is shows a pack-mentality of naivety.

Not really - it shows an understanding that there is a difference between a good musician working under constraints, and a bad musician. I notice you're quoting me there; those are my opinions; they're hardly idiotic or naive. Surely it's more idiotic and more naive to resort to that kind of thing when what you really should be saying is "You think that, I don't - here's why; let's have a chat about it!" rather than "Hello, you're all morons."

Incidentally - I do know the process; I have to work with it. Even on small fry crap indie films with no budget and shoddy production values, you have to put up with this nonsense, so I can only wonder at how tightly contemporary Hollywood composers are getting squeezed. Directors are, by and large, uninformed about music and the service it renders to a motion picture. Studios, of course, just want money; and if people pay money for something, then they'll try to encourage more of the same.

Why can't we get people to pay money for good stuff instead? ;)

Enjoy the score for what it is - ultimately you are all downloading it for free. So the irony is, while you may not like it nor understand the process that happens to make it, you're quite happy to slag it off.

You don't need to know how to cook to enjoy a good meal. You don't need to know how an internal combustion engine works to enjoy driving a fast car.

If the score is junk, then let's come out and say so. Response to music is an entirely individual, personal, and unique experience; it's not something you can measure or influence.

As I say, if people accept rubbish (or are made to feel that they're somehow not qualified to have an opinion) then what are you going to get the next time around? More rubbish. ;)

Media Ventures doesn't exist anymore. Remote Control (of which you're referring) is Hans Zimmer's production company of which HGW and others come under the umbrella of.

Referring to Media Ventures is again, uneducated and incorrect.


No - it's using a name which most people are familiar with, to avoid getting into irrelevant "What is Remote Control / they're Zimmer's company / I thought they were called Media Ventures / No, they changed their name a couple of years ago!" -- quite right, they're not called that any more. But, the brand name endures and if you say "Media Ventures" everybody instantly knows what you're talking about.

Incidentally - somebody once said "Remote Control" and they were flamed on another forum because somebody thought they were taking the piss out of Zimmer's "scoring by remote control" technique.

It's a terrible name for a company. ;)

I will say this of Remote Control; Hans Zimmer is doing more for upcoming artists than any other composer currently in the film industry. Whether you like his music or not, this is a style (Like Mozart, Beethoven) of the times and which film makers currently want in their movies

I certainly agree that the company is helping new musicians... but it seems as though it's handing out careers based upon an individual's ability to emulate a mass-appeal, lowest-common-denominator musical style. It's fast tracking people through the system if they can help the business.

That's the way it works in the corporate world, but I don't see much compatibility between this "business model" and fostering quality in music.

I would also disagree with your assessment that Remote Control produced scores are any less "artistic" than other work out there. You'll find (at the link previously provided) a list of very talented individuals who have as a group, many awards and great scores for many films between them.


Well, awards prove nothing (Brokeback Mountain for Best Score, anyone?) and what constitutes a great score in your mind is clearly different to what does so in mine.

I see talented individuals. I also see talentless individuals who are scoring films left and right and centre despite never having written a note of music in their lives.


This is such a cheap argument. You might as well say that if you remove the 'moving strings' from any John Williams score, none of the music remains. Of course not, because these are the sounds used to make the music, and if you remove one layer then the track as a whole begins to vanish.

So you hate the drum loop and emphasis on brass hits. Okay, fine. But dismissing those elements as 'not real music' is simply asinine.

Nobody's saying there will be no sound left; merely that if you removed those facets, there wouldn't be any unique musical flavour left. The loops and the hits ARE the style. They are sounds for their own sake.

If you took the strings (or even the entire orchestra, and replaced it with a ukelele) out of a Williams score... the music is still going to be there, and it's still going to be Williams' harmonic style, melodic style, rhythmic style, his technique.

Peace, all. :)

[bi0h4zard]

You have too much time dannyfrench :D

[licenturion]

I wonder now who Biggs v.2 is.

From the sound of it it's someone that affiliated in some way with Remote Control productions.

I would like to see every MV/RC artist to make a soundtrack without using the taiko drum percussion. I'm sure it would be a lot better then all the stuff they are producing now.

Or use a different orchestra and sample library to spice things up a bit. That's also why everything sounds silimar. They all use the same stuff. Except Powell. His scores sound different then the others...

[Biggs v.2]

Composers get thrown off movies fairly routinely; it happens to everybody. The only person I don't think it's ever happened to is John Williams!

The rumour is he wasn't exactly enthralled with the machinations of the Harry Potter franchise, which is why he hasn't returned as often as he would have liked. Although, that is pure speculation. His work on most movies defines them alot of the time so he about the only artist still working today who gets full artistic licence with his music. This is helped by the fact he generally only works with top-tier directors and studio heads. As I've previously said, scores only work if everyone is pushing the wagon in the same direction.

This is why - in addition to blaming the composer (for whilst it's true that it's not exclusively his responsibility, it is SOME of his responsibility!) I am always keen to blame the system that causes this kind of nonsense.

I totally and utterly disagree with you. If you build a house and the toilet doesn't work do you blame the electrician? This is your argument for this particular point falls down for you. You say in one paragraph that the artist is being manipulated in a certain direction (as I agree) by different sources. You then say you'll still blame the composer if his work isn't brilliant? You and I have no knowlege whatsoever on the scoring process behind Wolverine. We also both disagree wholeheartily on the end product. What we can agree on, is that ones argument needs to stay consistant.

Well, define "supposed to be" - I doubt that any film score is written with the view to being cinema magic; it's something that just happens - usually when a skilled composer goes the extra mile and everybody else involved with the picture is on board with his ideas...

Again, you're contradicting yourself. Lets deal with the facts:

- Wolverine is a sub-par movie (as a cinema experience)
- FOX is notorious with meddling with film projects, from catering to construction.
- Wolverine has documented 'behind the scenes' issues with the entire shoot

Those are the facts. Given this information, we can then assume then given the troubled state of the film it's reasonable to assume that this somehow filtered down to the production of the soundtrack. Many composers are called upon to "beef up" the movie with the soundtrack - this could well have been the case with the Wolverine score. Regardless of any speculation on my behalf, you're saying that HGW is solely responsible for a bad product [your opinion] and then saying elsewhere that everyone onboard the picture needs to be on-board with his ideas. Clearly, the facts above show that there was problems with the state of the film. I doubt the focus was going to be on supporting the aritst who's composing the music and nurturing his creative talent to produce an amazing score, do you?


Indeed - though it would be a sad job if you were a builder and somebody said "You know that building you built last week? Can you do the exact same thing here but paint the door blue instead of red?"

This happens all the time. It's why people live in kitset housing, why people buy the same brands and why McDonalds burgers all taste the same. Whether you like it or not, it's the reality. It's not going to change. There is a place and a niche for composers to deliver sound-alikes, it's why Trailer Music companys like Two Steps From Hell and X-Ray Dog make alot of money. If you've got beef with cookie-cutter compositions, take it up with those guys.


If the score is junk, then let's come out and say so. Response to music is an entirely individual, personal, and unique experience; it's not something you can measure or influence.

The difference with you is you won't accept other peoples opinions of this particular score. You refuse to budge on any of your formed opinons. Go back and read your first post you made in this thread, it's fully of statements that are ridiculous and downright nasty. You're arrogantly implying to those who enjoy the score and find it more than decent that their opinons are wrong.

I don't believe the score is junk. I don't believe HGW is a "Hack" nor is he untalented. That doesn't mean you get the right to dictate to me your opinon over and over again and force others to agree with you. Accept that, in this instance (and I'm sure many others) you're taste doesn't match up with everyone elses.

Does it make you wrong? No. Can you accept others opinons and move on? You should.


No - it's using a name which most people are familiar with, to avoid getting into irrelevant "What is Remote Control / they're Zimmer's company / I thought they were called Media Ventures / No, they changed their name a couple of years ago!" -- quite right, they're not called that any more. But, the brand name endures and if you say "Media Ventures" everybody instantly knows what you're talking about.

No, you're misinformed. Plain and simple. Use the correct name for the company you're discussing. Admit you're wrong. There's no shame, just don't pretend you did it deliberately, because you didn't. Remote Control is a well-known company and if you know about it but refuse to tell others about you're just educating stupidity to the unwise.


I certainly agree that the company is helping new musicians... but it seems as though it's handing out careers based upon an individual's ability to emulate a mass-appeal, lowest-common-denominator musical style. It's fast tracking people through the system if they can help the business.

I believe there would be 20+ or more composers on that list that would disagree that their musical style is "lowest common denominator" - they would also have the credentials to prove you wrong.


I see talented individuals. I also see talentless individuals who are scoring films left and right and centre despite never having written a note of music in their lives.

Please cite examples of the composers never having written a note of music.


Nobody's saying there will be no sound left; merely that if you removed those facets, there wouldn't be any unique musical flavour left. The loops and the hits ARE the style. They are sounds for their own sake.

So you're saying that a drum beat is not a "musical flavour" - that a drum loop or piece of percussion have no rhythmic flavour or iconic style?

Ridiculous.

[jdrevpile]

dannyfrench :yes:

[dnaught]

I've made a twenty-minute suite,it sounds really good for me.
We don't have to force your views on others

[tangotreats]

Edit again: I have removed my fiery response since I do realise that answering that kind of message in kind only serves to create more trouble, and doesn't further the discussion since the participants get so caught up defending themselves that they forget to defend the topic at hand. I see no positives and endless negatives with regards to continuing to engage. This is turning into another row and I do NOT want to participate. Love, peace, and respect to each and every participant in this thread; I am weary and I do not relish conflict or confrontation - so let me be and I will do the same for you. This is not running away and I am not doing this because I lack confidence in my viewpoint; I'm just doing the Buddhist thing (the Japanese can teach you a lot; not just about music! ;)) and stepping away, for the good of karma. There is too much stuff in life that's worth fighting about - this just isn't. :)

[licenturion]

I don't think DannyFrench is forcing his opinion upon other people...

He just says he has a different opinion and explains in detail why (in a constructive way).

Then all of you jump on him because he said what he thinks and claim to force his opinion upon you...

My 2 cents: I don't like this soundtrack. It's generic rubbish and I don't care if others think different. I also don't want to convert people to refined listeners cause that will usually come automatically if you are long enough into this music genre...


Drum beat IS A MUSICAL FLAVOUR. But if that's the only flavour in the music and you take it away, you've got no music!
Holy God, I cannot believe this circular argument.

Once again I agree. All the things in life are the best when there is a balance. In movies you need good story, good character development, good camera angles and a good score. In music you need a good balance between choir, percussions, woodwinds, electronics. In a restaurant you need a good balance between patatoes, meat, vegtables, drinks, ...

No matter how you turn it when you always focus on the same thing it becomes generic, boring, lifeless and after a while annoying... And thats how I feel about most movie scores lately...

[pecosbill]

Jesus, and some of you call ME crazy for trying to salvage this score by using other music to support it and give it more texture....Sometimes a duck's fart just won't do, man.


pfft lol

[tangotreats]

You have something of an obsession with farting ducks, my friend... I'm now very curious as to what it sounds like... How would one go about finding out? ;)

[Sirusjr]

He must be very close to the ducks that gather around the nearest lake!

[caito-san]

sweet! thanks so much!

[arthierr]

Edit again: I have removed my fiery response since I do realise that answering that kind of message in kind only serves to create more trouble, and doesn't further the discussion since the participants get so caught up defending themselves that they forget to defend the topic at hand. I see no positives and endless negatives with regards to continuing to engage. This is turning into another row and I do NOT want to participate. Love, peace, and respect to each and every participant in this thread; I am weary and I do not relish conflict or confrontation - so let me be and I will do the same for you. This is not running away and I am not doing this because I lack confidence in my viewpoint; I'm just doing the Buddhist thing (the Japanese can teach you a lot; not just about music! ;)) and stepping away, for the good of karma. There is too much stuff in life that's worth fighting about - this just isn't. :)

At last you've understood my mutism, young Padawan.

Every minute you spend on worthless things is a minute lost to valuable things.

Be more pragmatic. ;)

[ShadowOnTheSun]

I'm just doing the Buddhist thing (the Japanese can teach you a lot; not just about music! ;)) and stepping away, for the good of karma. There is too much stuff in life that's worth fighting about - this just isn't. :)

actually buddhism was started in the india/nepal region...so technically it isn't the "japanese" thing to do :P

[tangotreats]

I stand corrected. :)

[Doublehex]

Don't worry Dan. Those of us that knows what actually makes good music good knows that you were right on this one. :)

I certainly hope that you will give an excellent review of Star Trek when it eventually gets uploaded to the internet (I mean in terms of quality of the review itself, not the actual score).

[pecosbill]

Think of a quack, only from the rear....

Which is very similar to that distorted guitar syth that most Remote Control composers hack scores to death with...

I can understand it being used years ago, but after Transformers and Dark Knight, I think the days of the farting duck are over.

Anyway, a duck's fart is a colloquialism. Meaning to count one/something's worth.

[into the storm]

This is what Media Venture fans do. They are crazy fanatics. If you say you don't like a score from the MV camp, they attack you.

[Doublehex]

This is what Media Venture fans do. They are crazy fanatics. If you say you don't like a score from the MV camp, they attack you.

Reminds me of Fallout 3 and Oblivion fans. Expose just how much they suck, and you get raped AND crucified.

[spaceworlder]

Someone should rename this forum the "DannyFrench Fan Club". Jesus.

Reminds me of Fallout 3 and Oblivion fans. Expose just how much they suck, and you get raped AND crucified.

Why do I get the feeling that by "expose" you mean endlessly troll their forums?

[Doublehex]

Someone should rename this forum the "DannyFrench Fan Club". Jesus.



Why do I get the feeling that by "expose" you mean endlessly troll their forums?

No, I just give a list of very valid reasons why the games just are not good and they just go NUTS.

And note I haven't been on BethSoft. forums for quite a few years now. I comment on 3rd party forums, such as GameSpot.

Oh, and spaceworlder, just because we are agreeing with dannyfrench doesn't mean we are madly in love with him. Come now. I mean, he doesn't like the new Star Trek score. I thought it was pretty good. If I was a "fanboy" I would agree with him 100% on every single dang thing under the sun!

Besides, dannyfrench is hardly trolling. He is simply giving his opinion. If you want trolls, go check out rpgcodex.net. Although they are quite smart when it comes to RPGs, they know how to troll on everybody else.

They are just brutal.

Trust me, Dan is not trolling.

[Biggs v.2]

Danny,

I hope you havn't taken anything I've said too much to heart (or as an afront to you personally) as that wasn't my intention. My intention was to simply correct a few errors in your statements and point out a few asumptions of yours that were a little, bold, to say the least. Also, I'd point out that when you make a post right off the bat stating that:

[quote]That track is just another sign that HGW is an idiot hack; as if you thought he couldn't get any lower, now he's taking crap music he wrote for a video game five years ago, and quietly dropping it into X-Men. The mind boggles. Well, actually, it doesn't; these shitty scores are all we're getting these days.

Your passionate and attacking opinon will be greeted in kind, my friend. Also, you'll find not everyone agrees with your 'cutting' assesment. Don't be suprised when you're greeted with an equally passionate rebuttal.

I wouldn't regard myself as a "troll" as I've been a member for almost as long as Danny has. I just don't always post my thoughts, but I'm glad I've been able to help and inform a few people.

This was my intention from the start.

This has been a great discussion about a product that I personally believe to be quite good. Looking forward to more passionate debate when Mr Zimmers score for DaVinci code is released.

[Carlean-Factory]

®

[Yamialexa]

Thx for this one!

[tangotreats]

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

I've never read something like this..................so funny dude, you made my day!! :D :D :D

It's a pleasure. ;)

Do you find it this way? BY and large it seems that most film-makers consider music a necessary evil but don't consider it anywhere near the top of their agenda: Great scores come about because great composers put their heart into it, not because a director inspired them.

I scored my first picture in 2005. It was a no budget, digital video monstrosity with a shitty script, shitty acting, amateurish camera work and it was unbelievable dull. (An absolute nothing of a production; no website, no IMDB, no Wiki, none of the production team anywhere to be found online, etc - I doubt if they even remember making the film.) My fee was a pint of Guinness and a pizza. On my first picture, the director told me he wanted to use some of my pre-existing concert music. I said no, on the grounds that I'd written that piece for a very specific purpose, and it already had a story - so it wouldn't function in a film. He replied that he really liked it, and he'd only use about fourty seconds (of the 25 minute piece) and just fade out when he ran out of main titles. After banging my head against a brick wall for days, he agreed to let me write an original score (it was a short film, so only ten minutes of music was required and I had a week to write) - he'd been against this because it would have taken a week or two and he'd already dubbed my other piece into the film without my permission.

Two weeks later, we were dubbing the score into the film and he says "I love the music... but shall we try something else in there? My wife likes Chopin. Or maybe Entry of the Gladiators - that's fun... Or do you know that crazy organ thing that sounds like fairground music? Let's give that a try."

"But, you're removing over half the score; and the theme in this cue is pretty important to the scene because I've spent the last fifteen minutes building up to it. It's like deleting the weddings from Four Weddings and a Funeral. "

The reply was basically along the lines of, "Who cares about all that crap? I just want some noise in this picture to fill the awkward silences because the script sucks ass!"

Much argument ensued and, oddly enough, I won and my full score stayed in the film. The next day we watched the finished article, and he paid me a fine compliment. The final scene of the film (where we discover the twist and the protagonist finally understands what's going on when he's been completely mistified throughout the while film) was shot absolutely badly. It was very little dialogue - mainly stage directions. The guy walked into a garden late at night, holding a blood-stained knife, slumped to the ground, and dug some holes. He had believed throughout the film that his friend was betraying him and so he murdered him - he subsequently discovers that his friend was trying to help him and that he himself had been to blame for everything (long story) - that's what it was supposed to be, anyway. It was badly written, poorly shot, and the acting wasn't great either. When I watched the film sans music, I wasn't quite getting it - I was seeing this guy on the screen making a discovery, but I wasn't really feeling it with him. Anyway, we were watching the picture with the score for the first time, and the director suddenly went very quiet and started concentrating intently. I got very uncomfortable. He stared at the screen right the way through the end titles. Then he said something that will stick with me forever:

"I thought this film was a pile of crap. But now I understand it... I never really got what that final scene was about, but now I do... Thank you."

He then went on to talk about how he'd noticed a motif from the main title cropping up at various stages and then remarked on what I did to it in the final scene. It wasn't big or even particularly clever. But whatever I did, I actually got into this guy's head and I helped his shitty movie make sense.

So, the moral of THAT story is - directors, producers, usually don't care too much about music or understand its function in a film; but if you do your job right as a composer and you compensate with the very best score you can write, you go above and beyond the call of duty, then sometimes great things can happen. Not always, but sometimes. :)

[Probotector29]

THANKS!

[6669]

Awesome, thank you!

[Grunthor]

Thany you very much! I like the movie and the score :)

[Kamikaze_Jigsaw]

I hope there's going to be an extended edition or something. This was too short and just felt like the bare bones of the score to be honest.

[bluemarco44]

Sweet great add for my collection thanks

[hellrasinbrasin]

did u know that he is also the composer to Prince of Persia: The Sands of Time