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View Full Version : Is Square slowly leaving Sony's consoles?



ROKI
02-17-2007, 05:34 PM
After so many years of the Final Fantasy series being on Sony consoles, Square started developing games of both Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy for other consoles. At the moment, there are 3 remakes of FFs (IV,V,VI), one Dragon Quest ( Rocket Slime), Final Fantasy Tactics Advance and Kingdom Hearts:Chain of Memories all for GBA.

Square has also released a remake Final Fantasy 3 for the DS , and announced another Dragon Quest (IX), a new FFT game and a prequel of FFXII aso for the DS.

Square has released FF XI for Xbox 360, and has anounced another Dragon Quest, only for the Wii. (Dragon Quest Swords: The Masked Queen and the Tower of Mirrors).

Of course XIII is said to be released for ps3. Still, the amount of games released or going to be released on other consoles is quite big. What do you guys think about this?:-\

jewess crabcake
02-17-2007, 05:45 PM
No Square just multiplying there revenue, Sqaure started out on Nintendo it's natural they would update their games, as far as S-E on Xbox well S-E has also had ties with PC, if S-E left Sony the system that pretty much stacked it up atop a stack of fanboys, I believe both companies (Sony and S-E) would slowly crumble. Not soon but slowly, all games are released to all 4 major gaming consoles, (wii, PS3, Xbox30, and yes PC counts) Sony doesn't really have too many Sony only titles.

tenn77
02-17-2007, 06:15 PM
i think the series should stay on the sony consoles.

Andyuk
02-17-2007, 08:52 PM
They are a big enough company to release on different formats. Also they can work on a few different games at once given their size.

It's probably not a very good idea to concentrate on one format nowadays given the size of the company, they need to make sure they are reaching the widest audience possible. They could get away with it in the NES, SNES and PSONE days, but they are much bigger now, they have the resources to be making a few things at once on different formats.

Actually come to think of it, it was probably contract obligations that forced Square to stick with one format back then anyways.

Conde_Raziel
02-17-2007, 11:23 PM
why release gemas only for... FF is like a treasure of the mankind, why punish humans like that

Sackboy
02-18-2007, 03:39 AM
Haven't you noticed all the games remade on Nintendo's platform are all games originally on older Nintendo systems? The original Final Fantasy Tactics from PSone is being remade and it'll be on PSP. But then again all the original FF games were remade for PSone and now they're doing the same thing for PSP.

ROKI
02-18-2007, 07:16 AM
True, but on the other hand Nintendo gets direct sequels/prequels of games that were on Sony consoles (Tactics, FF XII, Kingdom Hearts).

Dragonsoul
02-21-2007, 03:28 PM
It's possible they could leave(atleast partly) during the PS 3 lifecycle. If FF XIV comes out it probably won't be for the Wii. The Wii isn't as powerful as Xbox 360 and Playstation 3. I know that PS 3 has trouble in the Usa compared to the Xbox 360, but what is the exact situation in Japan I wonder? :)

Revaninja
02-21-2007, 06:20 PM
Also the Wii would be a bad system for FF style of Gameplay while they are moving into what I call roaming battles it wouldn't translate very well to Wii I mean try using Magic on the Wii it would have to use the controls and attacks are automated the only thing they could possibly do is how strong or how many attacks you get but that would cheapen Gameplay since people would find the best postion and then figure out ways to Max it.
As for X box it makes senses that FFXI is going on to it X box's main draw has always been Online play and FFXI is online play so they go together like Bread and Butter.
Also yes the GBA is getting remakes of games but PSP is also getting the new games Crisis core the one where you play Zack is slated to be on PSP.

Considering just how big Square and all of them are it makes sense that they will broaden their horizon but I think they will stay on the Sony system so long as it countinues to give them the power they want which so far it has despite Square pushing the envelope with the storage space on FFX disc or the Graphics detail on FFXII it has managed to keep up and stay strong. So if that trend continues I think it will stay.

J. Peterman
02-21-2007, 08:37 PM
YES SQUARE-ENIX LAST NIGHT ON SMACKDOWN! SAID THAT SONY CAN SUCK IT AND SIGNED AN EXCLUSIVE CONTRACT WITH MICROSOFT TO HUGE HEAT FROM THE CROWD ALL OF A SUDDEN MARIO COMES DOWN WITH METAL GEAR AND STARTS BEATING ON EVERYBODY AS SONY MAN LAUGHS IN THE BACKGROUND AND TELLS MICROSOFT AND SQUARE-ENIX THAT THEY ARE THROUGH - THE NINTENDO PLAYSTATION XVII IS GOING TO RUN WILD ON YOU!

true story

db Cooper
02-23-2007, 05:00 PM
I was kinda wishing they'd release FFXIII on the wii... only due to the fact I REALLY don't wanna hand over 450 or whatever to keep following the series. I will miss playing the games. And I do realise there's probably alot of problems with this idea. Such as the fact the Wii doesn't have the GREATEST graphics in the world, nothing compared to the ps3's or even xbox 360. But still... it'd sure be nice to not have FFXII as the last one I play (not that I don't like FFXII 'cause I Doooooooooo). :D

Raidenex
02-23-2007, 07:20 PM
Square Enix announced - quite a few months back now - that they were no longer focusing on a single console, and would instead be releasing titles to the console which make the most 'sense'. Which, in marketing speak, translates to the console with the largest installed base.

Final Fantasy XIII has been in development at Square now for almost as long as FF12; the base code they used for FF13 (Square's White Engine) is designed exclusively for PlayStation consoles, and would be a nightmare to port.

However, Square Enix recently announced that they purchased the Unreal Engine 3 (made famous by Gears of War) for use in 'all future next-generation titles'. The Unreal Engine 3 is unique in that its programming is done in UnrealScript (a derivative of Java), and runs in a 'virtual machine', as opposed to directly on the console hardware; and there are currently virtual machines for the PC, X360 and PS3. In other words, porting games made in Unreal Engine 3 is a simple, painless process.

The fact that Dragon Quest IX is being released on the DS (the most popular console in Japan, remember), is huge news. Dragon Quest means more to Square Enix than the Final Fantasy franchise, and if they are willing to pull it from Sony's console to make a bigger profit, you can bet they will be willing to pull Final Fantasy. More likely though, we'll see an Unreal Engine 3-powered Final Fantasy XIV on Vista, X360 and PS3.

Personally, i'm keeping my fingers crossed for Kingdom Hearts 3 on the Wii.

reunion_is_near01
02-24-2007, 12:34 AM
I totally agree with you. The problem was that back when the snes entered out lives nintendo partially owned square. Then came the ps2 you all remember this when square was solely dedicated to the playstation. Now with the arrival of the wii and the x-box 360 we see alot more FF titles for more consoles. Sucks but sometimes the truth hurts.

Dragonsoul
02-24-2007, 06:59 PM
More likely though, we'll see an Unreal Engine 3-powered Final Fantasy XIV on Vista, X360 and PS3.

Final Fantasy XIV! Gah that sends shivers up my spine I'm excited but it will be a few years for it to be announced. It'll give Square Enix a year or two before deciding what console to put it on. Playstation 3 is getting killed off and in a year or two it may be not as popular and Square Enix will put FF XIV on Xbox 360(not Wii because it is not as powerful). :)

db Cooper
02-24-2007, 07:06 PM
See now Xbox 360 I could stand to follow the FF on... however completely freaky and odd I'd first find it to be playing FF on an xbox :| crikey!

I don't think there will ever be a real FF on the wii... there's gonna be another crystal chronicles on it (which I don't can't as a real FF :P). I mean the graphics just won't be any good and then and control just isn't praticle for an FF game... what could you use motion sensing for in Final Fantasy?

Revaninja
02-24-2007, 07:14 PM
Chocobo racing?

Sackboy
02-24-2007, 07:52 PM
1) The general FF games are not leaving Sony. All 3 next gen systems are selling well and I think it's impossible to claim any one of them the winner. Square is going to take advantage of the PS3's power to make FF titles as beautiful as possible.
2) It would kind of be unfair to not put KH3 on PS3 since the teaser trailer for it was at the end of KH2. I could only assume that it would imply KH3 on a Sony system.
3) expect anything else on other systems because Square has always done that. Square never really left Nintendo, (except during that short period between FF7 and FF9), and for the last few years they've always supported all the platforms because it means more money for them and everybody gets a taste of Square regardless of what system, (console or portable), they own.

Dragonsoul
02-24-2007, 08:22 PM
I disagree in part with point 1 of yours because I have been finding out that the Playstation 3 is getting killed off by the Xbox 360 and Wii in the United States. But doesn't mean that we know a winner between Xbox 360 and Wii. I think the main gamers go to Xbox 360 and Wii, while the random people go to Wii. Playstation 3 gets people who would also use Xbox 360 and are hardcore. Let me follow the top rpg's, which is why I'm getting Xbox 360. But I need Playstation 3 for White Knight Story, FF XIII, and FF V XIII. Wii has Zelda, but I don't know if I like these other rpgs there: Super paper mario, Dragon quests swords, FF CC: The Crystal Bearers.

As for Square Enix supporting all platforms, did they put out any games for Xbox 360 besides FF XII? What have they released for Xbox, Gamecube, and Dreamcast? I am confused. Anyways, what title by Square Enix do you look forward to? :)

Sackboy
02-24-2007, 08:56 PM
Duh! Wiis and 360s are outselling PS3s because there are more of them. Microsoft has had a year head start to get the ball rolling on production and the Wiis are not as complicated to build as the PS3s. That doesn't mean the PS3s are not selling. 2 weeks ago, when I went to my local Best Buy, I talked to a few people I know personally from when I worked there. They all say the same thing - They get about 60 of the PS3s in and they sell out in a few days. Happens on every shipment and they get them regularly.

As for other platforms, FFVII and FFVIII have both been on PC. FFXI is also for PC and now 360 for almost a year I think.

J. Peterman
02-24-2007, 09:02 PM
AT MY BEST BUY THE PS3 SELLS SO POORLY THEY ARE SELLING THEM FOR A NICKEL AND PEOPLE STILL SAY IT COSTS TOO MUCH

GO MARIO!

Sackboy
02-24-2007, 09:18 PM
Didn't you say you were going to get a PS3?

Also, I got my KFC honey BBQ snacker. When I feel like it, I'll post pics.

hb smokey
02-24-2007, 10:12 PM
Duh! Wiis and 360s are outselling PS3s because there are more of them. Microsoft has had a year head start to get the ball rolling on production and the Wiis are not as complicated to build as the PS3s. That doesn't mean the PS3s are not selling. 2 weeks ago, when I went to my local Best Buy, I talked to a few people I know personally from when I worked there. They all say the same thing - They get about 60 of the PS3s in and they sell out in a few days. Happens on every shipment and they get them regularly.

As for other platforms, FFVII and FFVIII have both been on PC. FFXI is also for PC and now 360 for almost a year I think.
Calling bullshit on your PS3 sale claims.

The EB Games I go to very frequently had a nice shipment of PS3's in the back for over a week, but they never sold out and didn't need another shipment because people weren't asking for them. I went to a different one, and they said the same thing I keep hearing. The Wii's sell almost the same minute they hit the shelves, and people are still waiting in line hours before the shipments arrive in the afternoon.

I've seen at least one or two PS3's in each retail store I've been to over the past two weeks. I've yet to find a single Wii since November 19th.

Sackboy
02-25-2007, 12:47 AM
Calling bullshit on your PS3 sale claims.

The EB Games I go to very frequently had a nice shipment of PS3's in the back for over a week, but they never sold out and didn't need another shipment because people weren't asking for them. I went to a different one, and they said the same thing I keep hearing. The Wii's sell almost the same minute they hit the shelves, and people are still waiting in line hours before the shipments arrive in the afternoon.

I've seen at least one or two PS3's in each retail store I've been to over the past two weeks. I've yet to find a single Wii since November 19th.

Oh, I agree with you on everything and here's why and in a way how you fail...

But this conversation belongs in the General Gaming forums so I'll meet you over there...

Hynad
02-25-2007, 12:53 AM
man, that last post is filled with so many falsities that I don't even find the strenght to correct it.

Raidenex
02-25-2007, 02:23 AM
1) The general FF games are not leaving Sony. All 3 next gen systems are selling well and I think it's impossible to claim any one of them the winner. Square is going to take advantage of the PS3's power to make FF titles as beautiful as possible.

Fanboy garbage. Square has confirmed they are using the Unreal Engine 3.0 for future next-gen projects, which looks identical on the Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3.


2) It would kind of be unfair to not put KH3 on PS3 since the teaser trailer for it was at the end of KH2. I could only assume that it would imply KH3 on a Sony system.

The teaser trailer at the end of Kingdom Hearts 1 was for Kingdom Hearts: Chain of Memories. On the Nintendo Gameboy Advance.


3) expect anything else on other systems because Square has always done that. Square never really left Nintendo, (except during that short period between FF7 and FF9), and for the last few years they've always supported all the platforms because it means more money for them and everybody gets a taste of Square regardless of what system, (console or portable), they own.

True, but it doesn't really help your argument in any way.

Hynad
02-25-2007, 02:27 AM
Fanboy garbage. Square has confirmed they are using the Unreal Engine 3.0 for future next-gen projects, which looks identical on the Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3.

Actually, nothing has been confirmed except that they bought the right to use the engine. For all we know, FFXIII is still being developed using their own PS3 engine called the White Engine.

Raidenex
02-25-2007, 02:45 AM
I'm not sure about the extent of your knowledge when it comes to pricing in engine licenses for corporations, but you don't buy the rights to use a massive engine like the Unreal Engine 3.0 and then not use it.

As i stated in a previous post, the White Engine is specifically designed for the PlayStation architecture. It also takes a long time, and a lot of resources to master next-gen hardware. Square-Enix's official position:


The complexity of next-generation game systems featuring HD graphics and multicore parallel processing poses a number of technological challenges to our game development. However, we can expedite our game development process significantly while allowing extra time and resources to be spent on game design and mechanics by establishing an effective technology platform.

In other words, SE doesn't want to have to worry about graphics, so they can concentrate on story and gameplay. If they were just developing for the PlayStation 3, there would be no need to license the UE3, as the White Engine could undoubtedly be perfected in house. The only reason for licensing a cross-platform engine is cross-platform releases.

An important thing to remember is that Square-Enix is currently working on a 'sequel' of sorts to Final Fantasy XI; a completely new MMORPG confirmed in development for X360, PS3 and PC. It's possible that this is the game the UE3 is being used for.

Hynad
02-25-2007, 02:48 AM
Yes, I know about all that. But you have to concider that FFXIII was already in development before they bought the U3 engine. So I don't think they'll use it for FFXIII. That was my only point in my last post. I'm sure they'll put the U3 to good use on other projects, but not with FFXIII since it's a PS3 exclusive.

Revaninja
02-25-2007, 02:53 AM
Raidenex I have to point out no where was KH1 teaser trailer ending in KHCoM I have played all three games and beaten them all with extra endings for the ones avabile. Everything you see in KH1 is in KH2 KHCoM does not have anything in it from KH1 except the end part from KH final mix that leads into KHCoM with the 'Unknown' leading you off into to the castle. KH2 is the one with stuff from KHCoM from the intro to several other things. You are getting your KHs mixed up.

Sorry continue.

Raidenex
02-25-2007, 03:04 AM
Yes, I know about all that. But you have to concider that FFXIII was already in development before they bought the U3 engine. So I don't think they'll use it for FFXIII. That was my only point in my last post. I'm sure they'll put the U3 to good use on other projects, but not with FFXIII since it's a PS3 exclusive.

Yes. If you had read my previous posts, I stated that the first FF game that could use the UE3 would be Final Fantasy XIV. It would undoubtedly be a nightmare to port Final Fantasy XIII to any other system.



Raidenex I have to point out no where was KH1 teaser trailer ending in KHCoM I have played all three games and beaten them all with extra endings for the ones avabile. Everything you see in KH1 is in KH2 KHCoM does not have anything in it from KH1 except the end part from KH final mix that leads into KHCoM with the 'Unknown' leading you off into to the castle. KH2 is the one with stuff from KHCoM from the intro to several other things. You are getting your KHs mixed up.

Sorry continue.

Perhaps this is simply in PAL regions, but i've also completed all 3 KH games with the extra endings; the ending I was referring to was in Kingdom Hearts 1 with Sora, Donald and Goofy following Pluto to the Crossroads. This occurs no matter what; you don't have to fulfill any criteria.

That ending leads directly into KH:CoM. The 'secret video' in KH1 is from KH2, yes, but if you're going to follow that logic, then the ending in KH2 when Sora, Kairi, Donald and Goofy receive the message in a bottle from King Mickey would be the equivalent of Sora, Donald and Goofy at the Crossroads in the original game, while the Keyblade Wars video is the equivalent to the secret video.

...in any case, the argument that was made about the fact the 'trailer was on the PS2 so the game MUST be on a sony console' was ridiculous in the first place.

Revaninja
02-25-2007, 03:24 AM
He did mean the extra trailer I believe so he was right in a sense. As for keeping it on I think they will not because 'it has to be' but rather because the PS series is where the 2 major games reside as well as I have heard rumor of a KHCoM release for PS2 though that is only rumor again.

There are some games that are the trademark of a Console Dead or Alive for Xbox and Halo as well. Legend of Zelda, Mario, Metroid, and Super smash bros for Nitendo Game cube and other like consoles. Resident evil-even though it branched out the majority are still for PS- Final Fantasy, Prince of Persia, Star Ocean, Onimusha, and Wild arms for the PS. These game series have stuck with or where devolped for this system alone first then got branched out but yet they still shine as trademarks for the console. They bring in sales for the console and it would make sense if the consoles buliders such as Sony and Nitendo made deals with Game companies to keep their Trademarks on their Consoles when they moved to the next gen stuff.

So no I don't think KH and the FF series will be moved away from the sony Consoles so long as it provides Sales and the ability to do what they want with their games. So far from what I have seen it looks like PS3 can do it.

Also keep in mind that each Console has its own unique Draw to it. Xbox online play, Wii motion gaming, and from what I have seen PS3 offers visual and seemless plays though I can't back that up. Wii would be a Bad choice for the FF series as already discussed. KH wouldn't be bad and I can see several ways it could work though it has flaws as well such as the enemy rate being too much for most players stamina. Xbox for FF would be alright for FFXI since it is Online period but it would be a waste really for the other FFs since they are bulit for solo plays orignally. KH I think would be a VERY poor choice for Online just because of the Copy right pay outs that it would cost to keep creating worlds to satisify players we all have a series or Cartoon we felt should have been in KH, online would be the outlet for that but I think it would bulid too quickly.

So while yes it is possible to change Consoles it just doesn't make sense to do so Business wise for the most part.

Raidenex
02-25-2007, 08:51 AM
He did mean the extra trailer I believe so he was right in a sense. As for keeping it on I think they will not because 'it has to be' but rather because the PS series is where the 2 major games reside

If you follow that reasoning, Final Fantasy VII would have been released for the Nintendo 64. Instead, Square decided to switch to the PlayStation because it was more cost effective to produce a large adventure on CD than on a cartridge ROM. Square then decided to produce titles for the PlayStation 2, because it had the largest installed base of the next generation consoles that had been released; apart from the Dreamcast, which had dismal sales, the PlayStation 2 was the most installed next generation console at the time. So, if you follow that reasoning, the next Final Fantasy game will be released for the Wii, because it is the next-generation console with the largest installed base.


as well as I have heard rumor of a KHCoM release for PS2 though that is only rumor again.

It's not a rumour, a remade 3D version of Chain of Memories was included as an extra with the Japanese Kingdom Hearts II Final Mix. Still irrelevant to the current discussion.


There are some games that are the trademark of a Console Dead or Alive for Xbox and Halo as well.

Dead or Alive started as a PlayStation franchise, moved to the PS2, then to the Xbox. Halo is available on Xbox and PC.


Legend of Zelda, Mario, Metroid, and Super smash bros for Nitendo Game cube and other like consoles.

All of those games are fully owned, developed and published by Nintendo. I'm sure if Square-Enix made a console (and there are murmurings that they are considering releasing their own handheld), they would release exclusively for it.


Resident evil-even though it branched out the majority are still for PS-

The Nintendo GameCube actually has the most Resident Evil games for it, I believe - Resi 0, 1, 2, 3, Code Veronica X and 4. The PS1 had three, and the PS2 had one. Resi 4 is also coming to the PC this year. Resi 5 is being released for both the 360 and the PS3 at the same time.


Final Fantasy

Available on a plethora of consoles, including the NES, SNES, PS1, PS2, PC, GBA, DS, and soon the PSP. And that's just the main numbered series.


Prince of Persia

Available on Xbox, GameCube, PS2, PC, PSP, DS, and soon the Wii.


Star Ocean

Started life on the SNES.


Onimusha, and Wild arms for the PS.

Finally, two actual exclusives; even though Capcom, the developer of Onimusha, is known to make exclusives for any console. Just look at Dead Rising and Lost Planet for the X360.


These game series have stuck with or where devolped for this system alone first then got branched out but yet they still shine as trademarks for the console. They bring in sales for the console and it would make sense if the consoles buliders such as Sony and Nitendo made deals with Game companies to keep their Trademarks on their Consoles when they moved to the next gen stuff.

The gaming industry doesn't really work that way. There are three types of developers; 1st party, 2nd party and 3rd party. 1st party developers are the companies themselves; for instance Wipeout, which is made by Sony Computer Entertainment Europe, or Mario, which is made by Nintendo, or Halo, which is made by Bungie, a wholly-owned subsiduary of Microsoft Game Studios. All 1st party games are released on their respective systems.

2nd party developers are developers that are not owned by one of the big three, but get benefits if they agree to make games solely for the one console. This is pretty rare these days, as 2nd party developers have been bought up by parent companies, but examples include Rare and Factor 5 in the GameCube days. As can be seen in the Rare case, they are not completely linked to the company, as Rare was purchased by Microsoft.

3rd party developers are completely independent, and in most cases release games for all platforms. The three biggest third party developers in the world are EA Games, Ubisoft and Square-Enix. EA and Ubisoft both develop titles designed for cross-platform release on all major consoles; even Rayman Raving Rabbids, which was specifically designed for the Wii, was ported to every other console known to man. Square-Enix's profits outside of Japan are trailing those of EA and Ubi because they don't release games cross-platform.


So no I don't think KH and the FF series will be moved away from the sony Consoles so long as it provides Sales and the ability to do what they want with their games. So far from what I have seen it looks like PS3 can do it.

The PS3 has the smallest installed base out of the three next-generation consoles. Sure, they will generate sales, but i'm willing to bet they don't make as much money on Final Fantasy XIII as they did on Final Fantasy XII. There are millions of PS2s in the world, and nowhere near as many PS3s. When you take into consideration next generation budgets, which are starting to rival the costs of major hollywood movies, Square-Enix is looking at a very small profit margin for FF13.


Also keep in mind that each Console has its own unique Draw to it. Xbox online play, Wii motion gaming, and from what I have seen PS3 offers visual and seemless plays though I can't back that up. Wii would be a Bad choice for the FF series as already discussed.

In actual capabilities, and the reports of many developers, the Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3 have the same standards. Various bottlenecks (RAM, mainly) mean that even the apparent difference in clock-speeds (6 cores vs. 3 cores) doesn't make for much of a difference visually - just compare Gears of War to Resistance: Fall of Man. Gears of War looks better in every case.

The Wii is obviously a different matter entirely, and I agree it isn't a good choice for the main FF series, but not because of the reasons you stated. The Wii isn't a console aimed towards the hardcore, it's the console aimed towards people who haven't gamed before; so even though many of the hardcore will buy it, because it's awesome, the solid RPG fans will have a Wii AND a 360, or a Wii and a PS3. Or sometimes all three (fingers crossed).


KH wouldn't be bad and I can see several ways it could work though it has flaws as well such as the enemy rate being too much for most players stamina.

A system like Zelda: Twilight Princess' would be fine. A quick flick is all that is needed to swing the sword in Zelda, and that would be fine for a KH game. The Wii's lesser graphics capability would also be a benefit for the series; cel-shaded games tend to look not as good in higher resolutions. The Wii would offer a graphics update while still staying close to the series' roots.

...if you couldn't tell, i've got my heart set on Kingdom Hearts III for the Wii for some reason.


Xbox for FF would be alright for FFXI since it is Online period but it would be a waste really for the other FFs since they are bulit for solo plays orignally. KH I think would be a VERY poor choice for Online just because of the Copy right pay outs that it would cost to keep creating worlds to satisify players we all have a series or Cartoon we felt should have been in KH, online would be the outlet for that but I think it would bulid too quickly.

To say the Xbox 360 is purely for online games is just showing ignorance. Just because it has a superior online infrastructure doesn't mean that every single game for it is a multiplayer shooter or an MMORPG; the game that i've played most on my 360, Oblivion, is very much a solo game.


So while yes it is possible to change Consoles it just doesn't make sense to do so Business wise for the most part.

As i've explained in the developer section, it makes a lot of business sense to expand consoles. Switching the Final Fantasy series from the PlayStation to the Xbox 360 wouldn't make any financial sense, but releasing them concurrently on both (and the PC) would give a larger audience for a negligible sum of money. The only people who lose out are whinging fanboys, who will buy the game on their favourite console anyway.

ROKI
02-25-2007, 09:36 AM
Yes, I know about all that. But you have to concider that FFXIII was already in development before they bought the U3 engine. So I don't think they'll use it for FFXIII. That was my only point in my last post. I'm sure they'll put the U3 to good use on other projects, but not with FFXIII since it's a PS3 exclusive.

Its still posible to switch engine, but that would take more time=more costs.

Revaninja
02-25-2007, 12:01 PM
DOA is produced only for Xbox now so it has become a trademark for Xbox. So yes while it started out as PS it is now the game you think of most likely when people think of Xbox. As for Resident evil no GameCube has less then you think. Resident Evil 2 3 and Code all were orignally developed for PS system but the Gamecube Versions are no different no extras or anything so they are Ports not remakes this credit still goes to PS. Only Resident Evil 0 and remake are for Gamecube alone and no porting at all. Resident evil Outbreak file 1&2, Deadly Aim 1&2 are still only for PS. SO if you look at what is only for a Console PS has the more Resident Evil titles this it gets it. As for RE4 I am unsure were to put it exactly while it was developed for Gamecube it got moved to PS2 and given Alot of features that are for PS2 only so I really can't classify it as a Port nor can I call it a remake so it lingers between. So no matter how you look at it 4-2 PS Favor 4-3 Ps favor. Also PS and PS2 are considered the same under the same Console series since when PS2 came out it was very much like an upgrade for the PSX everything is the same design with tweaking for better preformance for it from memory cards to controllers you can use your PSX stuff on your PS2 you can play PSX games on PS2 this the consoles are tied together as PS. Xbox and Xbox360 are the same way. N64 and Gamecube are completely different you can't play N64 cartigridge games on the Gamecube nor can you use the Controllers for it so they are considered seperate systems. So when I say PS I mean PSX and PS2. If I say Xbox I mean Xbox and Xbox360. While Gamecube is still just Gamecube. I also don't have a Wii nor do I know much then what I demo played at the game stores so if there is Cross over from Wii and Gamecube like I have heard I have no first hand experince. But at this current time it doesn't effect too much of the disscusion.

As for FF you are right it has ported out but most of its games have been for developed for the PS series first and that is the topic here. What I have been trying to say is that FFXIII will properly be developed for PS3 then when sales drop it will be moved over to Xbox more likely. But it will still be DEVELOPED for PS3 FIRST this getting credit.

Star Ocean 2/3 of its game are on a PS now it may have started out as NES but now it is a PS system only just like DOA is Xbox's now.

As for Xbox yes I am ignorant for the most part of Xbox, though I have played a friend of mines a time or two, but I do know that nearly all its games have Online play features installed in them. Very few PS titles use Online play RE outbreak and FFXI are the only ones I am aware of though I am sure there are more. So it is not wrong to say Online play is a key draw right now for Xbox since as it stands Xbox is the only constant online source except for PC.

I am talking about series when I said the games reside there like how KH1 & 2 are only on PS2 so it would make sense to move KH3 to PS3 and not to the Wii until sales have started to drop.

As for your idea on Business sales and Game companies it is right but you forget a little something called audenice focus which make or break sales. An example is Beer commercials are always seen in the Super Bowl commericals. People know this and look for them Makers take advantage of it to sell their product. The same thing goes for FF on the PS series people have gotten used to seeing them there so if it moves it would lower sales since people wouldn't be looking for them on a different console unless it was heavily advertised. An example would be myself I went into a game crazy awhile back to buy a game I had preordered while I was waiting for the guy to get my game from the back I wandered around. Now this is before I owned a Gamecube imagine my suprise when I found out that a Resident Evil for Gamecube had been made. I hadn't been keeping tabs on anything Game wise at the time so it was so out of the blue for me to see it since at that time RE has been PS alone. So you see if an average gamer like I was at the time wasn't looking for it they may not pick up where a game has gone to and this they lose sales. There are only 2 ways to make sure they don't lose sales first A lot of commericals so people know about it, or second and the more likely wait till the demand for it drops on PS then switch it over with some new add ins like what happened with Xbox and PC for KOTOR.

ROKI
02-25-2007, 01:50 PM
DOA is produced only for Xbox now so it has become a trademark for Xbox. So yes while it started out as PS it is now the game you think of most likely when people think of Xbox. As for Resident evil no GameCube has less then you think. Resident Evil 2 3 and Code all were orignally developed for PS system but the Gamecube Versions are no different no extras or anything so they are Ports not remakes this credit still goes to PS. Only Resident Evil 0 and remake are for Gamecube alone and no porting at all. Resident evil Outbreak file 1&2, Deadly Aim 1&2 are still only for PS.

RE 1,2,3 were originally developed for Playstation 1, then 2 and 3 were ported to Game Cube
RE Code Veronica was developed for dreamcast, then ported as Code Veronica X to Game Cube and Ps2
RE 4 was developed for Game Cube and was ported to Ps2 with a few additions. Its coming on PCs too.
Outbreak 1&2 are only on Ps2.
Dead Aim cant be really considered a real RE (but was developed on ps2)
Capcom developed RE:Remake only for GameCube, which is a completly new game, comparing to the original.
RE:0 was developed and released only for Game Cube.
A port of the original RE was released for the DS with options that add mini games and uses of the DS touch screen.

Capcom is working on a new RE (5) which is probably going to be multyplatform and on another RE title (Umbrella Chronicles) which was said that it will be only for the Wii.



As for FF you are right it has ported out but most of its games have been for developed for the PS series first and that is the topic here. What I have been trying to say is that FFXIII will properly be developed for PS3 then when sales drop it will be moved over to Xbox more likely. But it will still be DEVELOPED for PS3 FIRST this getting credit.


ff 1-6 were on NES/SNES then ported on GBA,PS1 and Wonderswan.
7-12+x-2 (im talking about the main series) were developed on ps1/ps2 and were never ported on other consoles.

The only game from the Playstation ones that is going on another console is Tactics, and that will be a remake on PSP and not a port.

And for god's sake, the credits never go to the console. The credits go to the company. Any kind of hardware would be just nothing without the software.

Hynad
02-25-2007, 02:03 PM
In actual capabilities, and the reports of many developers, the Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3 have the same standards. Various bottlenecks (RAM, mainly) mean that even the apparent difference in clock-speeds (6 cores vs. 3 cores) doesn't make for much of a difference visually - just compare Gears of War to Resistance: Fall of Man. Gears of War looks better in every case.

Actually here, I think you miss the boat. The PS3 has more horsepower than the 360 (and it's 7 microprocessors not 6, 8 if you count the main processor). You try to pretend otherwise by comparing a 360 game that was developed for it during a long time period and wasn't rushed out as a launch game. Resistance is a launch game, and if you can remember what the 360 launch games were back then, you'll see that the PS3, a harder piece of hardware do develop for, as a lot of advantages over the 360.

I don't understand how many so called hardcore gamer would forget about all this.

Compare some games that haven't been rushed.... Oblivion for example is having some difficulties running on the 360 (some lags and frame drops, and a sometime inconsistent draw-distance). These issues aren't in the PC and PS3 version (just go read any preview of the PS3 version out there, like say... IGN or Gamespot).

Revaninja
02-25-2007, 03:53 PM
Roki we were talking about which is a trademark of a console like how FF is now a days a PS trademark. I didn't mean to give credit to a console. It was meant to show these Games have been for the most part on one console series and are more likely going to stay there.

Raidenex
02-25-2007, 05:26 PM
You know what Revan, i'm done arguing with you. I've given you logical arguments, and you're just going round and around in circles, and not even answering my points properly.

Here's the simplified version: Final Fantasy XIII was developed for the PS3, and will not be ported (at least not until we see handhelds with PS3-like power anyway). I'm not talking about moving the Final Fantasy series to a different platform, i'm talking about making it multiplatform. To use your beer example, it would be like Budweiser only being available in one bar - obviously they have more sales by being available in many different bars and liquor stores.

As for how the game industry works, you are completely ignorant. You are trying to argue from your 'idea' of how it works, and i'm trying to tell you how I know it works, from actually being inside the industry. You can either listen, or you can keep crapping on. Your choice.

And Hynad - read this:

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

A computer is made up of more than the number of processors it has.

Hynad
02-25-2007, 05:42 PM
LOL, do you have any point? My point is clear and developers agree with it.
You give me explanations of how hardwares work. I already know that. I don't need you to come at me pretending you know any better than anyone by stating you're SUPPOSEDLY in the industry (an easy argument you make that I don't believe at all).

Developers agree the 2 are similar machines, but the PS3 is more powerful. Every parts in the PS3 are more powerful than those in the 360. You shoot at me a biased 360 fanboy article to back your claim. That's totally irrelevant. We'll see how time will prove me right.

Revaninja
02-25-2007, 05:43 PM
One your post seem to give that impression of moving the FF series off PS so excuse me I misread. Two I am not going around in circles as you call it. Three I too have experince in the industrie did I say you were wrong no I just said you forgot something is all.

Plus going back to what you say you are a Hypocrite what you accuse me and Hynad is the same thing you are doing. You dismiss what we say misinterput what we say then claim we know nothing. I am sorry but this world is full of more info then any one person can handle the Info we bring may not be what you think is right but that does not mean it is wrong either.

We give you the right to your opnions with out name calling or acting like we know it all. Give us the same rights. Also we are all in different countries Myself in USA you in Austerila-Sp?- things are not always the same from country to country in customs to how they sell their games. Also Info given out is different as well. Plus we recive Tech and games at different rates we in USA have had FFXII for awhile you just recived it. Things are different deal with and learn that no one is always right nor is any one always wrong.

Truth and knowledge are not fruits to be plucked but rather clouds to be stared at and thought about. Wisdom is the mist of time sometimes it hides its truth sometimes it shows it most times it blurs it so that any man might see more or less then what it is.

J. Peterman
02-25-2007, 06:27 PM
MY OPINION:

THE WII IS THE MOST POWERFUL GAMING CONSOLE THAT IS ABLE TO TURN A REGULAR TV INTO A 50" HDTV WITH SURROND SOUND AND A MICROWAVE

Raidenex
02-25-2007, 06:37 PM
Hynad, that article had pretty clear figures. And you can believe me or not, but i'm doing my Bachelor's degree in Information Technology majoring in Game Development at Australia's top technical university, QUT, and I do product testing for Microsoft and Turbine Studios. I don't have any proof, because i'm not posting my academic transcript up here, but if you've stooped to calling me a liar that's pretty damn low.

Another article here, from a well known 'whistle-blower'; the poster may be anonymous, but it has been confirmed as an actual source.

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

And Revan, how exactly am I being hypocritical? I'm backing up my claims with raw data. You've been so obsessed with arguing what you thought was the argument, you obviously haven't even been reading what i've been posting. There is far too much misinformation going around the internet, and if there is one thing I refuse to propagate in this forum, it's false or biased information about anything.

It just irks me that there are people out there who somehow feel betrayed if a game isn't on their console of choice. Following a piece of hardware is ridiculous beyond belief - it's the games themselves that matter.

Hynad, forgive me, but you've taken every bit of "TEH PS3 IS THE POWERFULLEST" hyperbole Sony has put out. Yes, CELL is an amazing piece of hardware for cluster computing, but as anyone who has tried to run a game on a supercomputer knows, better processing does not equal better graphics. If you look at the last generation, the most powerful processor was the Xbox, at 733 MHz, but the best graphics were the GameCube version of Resident Evil 4, which had a 400 MHz processor but a superior graphics processor. The PS2 version of Resi 4 only took a very minor graphics hit, and that was on a 300 MHz processor.

Hynad
02-25-2007, 06:42 PM
I didnt take anything from the sony boasting. I took it from games like Oblivion who run smoother on the PS3.

What you dont know is that although it is difficult and expensive to make a game on a supercomputer, the raw power is still there, and if developers can learn to use it, the games will only get better. And as far as the GC version of Resident Evil 4 goes, I agree it was better on the GC, but to say it had the best graphics? Maybe overal it was really good, but if you look deeper, you'll see how much the texture quality sucked. Sure, overall it was pretty good, but it had its limitations.

Testing games doesn't mean you're an industry expect. Come back once you've developed something on every systems, then I might listen to your boasting.

Dragonsoul
02-25-2007, 06:47 PM
Duh! Wiis and 360s are outselling PS3s because there are more of them. Microsoft has had a year head start to get the ball rolling on production and the Wiis are not as complicated to build as the PS3s. That doesn't mean the PS3s are not selling. 2 weeks ago, when I went to my local Best Buy, I talked to a few people I know personally from when I worked there. They all say the same thing - They get about 60 of the PS3s in and they sell out in a few days. Happens on every shipment and they get them regularly.

As for other platforms, FFVII and FFVIII have both been on PC. FFXI is also for PC and now 360 for almost a year I think.

I work in a major retail store. We have 20 PS 3's in Backstock in Electronics. Nobody buys them!! It's $500-$600 with not enough great games.

Raidenex
02-25-2007, 07:12 PM
I didnt take anything from the sony boasting. I took it from games like Oblivion who run smoother on the PS3.

Now who's being hypocritical? You wouldn't let me compare Gears of War and Resistance, because Gears of War had longer development time, while Resistance was rushed out for release - yet in this case, Oblivion PS3 had longer development time (an extra year, no less), while Oblivion 360 was rushed out the door for release.

Also, if it's all about processing power, how do you explain that Oblivion PC is still considered the best of the three? I've yet to see a computer with the processing power of either the 360 or the PS3.


What you dont know is that although it is difficult and expensive to make a game on a supercomputer, the raw power is still there, and if developers can learn to use it, the games will only get better.

That is technically true, but in reality impossible. There is a large difference between hardware rendering and software rendering; if a game is reliant on the processor for graphics rendering, many tens to hundreds of thousands of extra lines of code are required. Why do you think the PS3 has a GPU in addition to the CELL processors? More lines of code = more programmer hours = higher costs. There is a reason that companies like Square Enix buy engines like the Unreal Engine 3.0 - someone has already gone to the effort of handling how graphics work, so all they have to do is come in and build a game around it.


And as far as the GC version of Resident Evil 4 goes, I agree it was better on the GC, but to say it had the best graphics? Maybe overal it was really good, but if you look deeper, you'll see how much the texture quality sucked. Sure, overall it was pretty good, but it had its limitations.

I don't know what you're saying they sucked in comparison to. The PS2 textures were ported and downscaled slightly from the GameCube version.


Testing games doesn't mean you're an industry expect. Come back once you've developed something on every systems, then I might listen to your boasting.

I'm not boasting, you doubted my experience, so I told you. I've also given you links to articles from developers who have developed for both systems, and you accuse it of being biased.

Meanwhile, you've offered no proof to back up your claims whatsoever. Either start backing up your words with fact, or i'll just start deleting your posts.

Revaninja
02-25-2007, 07:20 PM
I am not arguing per say I just don't agree with you is all and I am allowed.

As for the Consoles who cares if it follows or not? It makes good business sense to start off a Game on the console it is expected to be on then later Port it off for better sales.

AS for False Info you are as ROKI pointed out to both of us just as Guilty of putting out false facts maybe in forgoting where a game starts or which console has what but in the end you are still giving out false facts it happens.

I do read your post but very obviously you don't read mine. Once again Hypocircy-Sp?- on your part. You so far have acted like you are the end all for info concerning Consoles I have read other posts by you and seen the same behaviour. Well we have different opnions and in the end only next year will tell just how good PS3 really is as well as what games are on it until then this is all specualtion and claims with no true solid buyer backed info. You talk about what has been bought what will happen some of which I agree with you on and some I don't but in the end unless if you are the design leader of PS3 and other Game companies you don't know anything and neither do I nor does Hynad. All we can do is put out our opnions and why we believe that way start acting like an adult listen to what others have to say and respond in kind, instead of I am right you are wrong tone you have been using this whole entire time.

I know Reese's has disagreed with you I know Hynad has as well on your evaluation and theories of the PS3 and Square future I am sure others have as well. While I am not Tech oriented like that I have seen some problems with what you are saying that I can't express into words well enough to debate with so I have been staying out of that part. Put do you notice you are the only one really cracking down and saying this stuff? Reeses Hynad have both brought up facts and ideas to counter yours maybe you should take a Minute and read them then respond after you have thought about it. I am not saying agree with it but it is very clear you have read a post then dismiss as FANBOY GARABAGE and have even said as much. Maybe you have the right of it maybe you don't but actually listen and think about what we have to say first that is all I am asking of you.

And this is far as I go I am a Philospher and observer more then a Techie so this is my limit. For those who don't get it I am washing my hands of this thread.

Hynad
02-25-2007, 07:28 PM
Here's a fact: Developers agree to say the PS3 is more powerful than the 360. It's a fact. And you can browse the net if you doubt it.

As for RE4, i didn't say it sucked in comparison. I said the textures in any version of the game sucked. So saying it has better graphics than any X Box games might be wrong.

Revaninja
02-25-2007, 08:01 PM
Hynad stop doubting Raidenex on his background
Raidenex same to you on this form we are all equal and have to take things at face value.

So no 'Come back after yadda ya limit then we will talk' or'Prove you work for who you say you do' that is not what this thread is for.

Discuss it like 2 proferssors on a tv debate program Civil and nice and accepated at face value. If you have Links interviews game previews so forth fine POST THEM. It lacks weight for you to say yes they do but no links. Back up your claims and this is not for one or the other it is for BOTH OF YOU.

Raidenex
02-25-2007, 08:03 PM
As for the Consoles who cares if it follows or not? It makes good business sense to start off a Game on the console it is expected to be on then later Port it off for better sales.

Whether you've washed your hands of this thread or not, i'd still like to see you back this point up. Since you seem to be so wise in the way of economics, explain how releasing a title to a limited installed base of of consoles and then porting it will make more money than releasing it at the same time.


AS for False Info you are as ROKI pointed out to both of us just as Guilty of putting out false facts maybe in forgoting where a game starts or which console has what but in the end you are still giving out false facts it happens.

Every fact I said was accurate. If you're referring to my comments on the Resident Evil games, I wasn't talking about where a game 'starts' - I'm talking about where the game is. Everything that I have stated in this thread is accurate, which is more than I can say for either of you.


I do read your post but very obviously you don't read mine. Once again Hypocircy-Sp?- on your part. You so far have acted like you are the end all for info concerning Consoles I have read other posts by you and seen the same behaviour. Well we have different opnions and in the end only next year will tell just how good PS3 really is as well as what games are on it until then this is all specualtion and claims with no true solid buyer backed info. You talk about what has been bought what will happen some of which I agree with you on and some I don't but in the end unless if you are the design leader of PS3 and other Game companies you don't know anything and neither do I nor does Hynad. All we can do is put out our opnions and why we believe that way start acting like an adult listen to what others have to say and respond in kind, instead of I am right you are wrong tone you have been using this whole entire time.

Maybe when you are an adult, you'll realise that arguing like an adult requires logical facts. Not once have I made any elaborate claims about one console being better than another - I have responded to Hynad, who claims the PS3 is more powerful than the 360. I demonstrated, by linking to an article by IGN's Douglass C. Perry, that that was not necessarily the case. I am NOT arguing that the 360 is a better, or more powerful console than the PS3. I was merely arguing against hype with solid fact - and in that case, I am right, and you were wrong. You both can whinge and bitch all you want about it, but until you show me that a) you actually understand how a console works and b) indisputable proof for every outrageous claim you make, you will remain wrong.

I don't argue opinion. I argue fact. If you have a problem with that, then stay out of this thread.


I know Reese's has disagreed with you I know Hynad has as well on your evaluation and theories of the PS3 and Square future I am sure others have as well. While I am not Tech oriented like that I have seen some problems with what you are saying that I can't express into words well enough to debate with so I have been staying out of that part. Put do you notice you are the only one really cracking down and saying this stuff? Reeses Hynad have both brought up facts and ideas to counter yours maybe you should take a Minute and read them then respond after you have thought about it. I am not saying agree with it but it is very clear you have read a post then dismiss as FANBOY GARABAGE and have even said as much. Maybe you have the right of it maybe you don't but actually listen and think about what we have to say first that is all I am asking of you.

I have responded to every one of Hynad's posts in this thread, and every one of Reese's posts in the thread in Gen. Gaming. I have answered their hyperbolic Sony-pushed nonsense with cold, hard fact. And yes, if I read a post that makes a claim about a particular console without any fact backing it up, I will dismiss it for the fanboy garbage it is.


And this is far as I go I am a Philospher and observer more then a Techie so this is my limit. For those who don't get it I am washing my hands of this thread.

A philosophical argument is based on reason and logic, while you are venturing an opinion. In technical philosophical terms, i'm attempting to have a level 1 argument, which is based on the actual capabilities of the console and the reality of games development, while you are having a level 3 argument, based on your 'feelings'. You would get laughed out of any philosophical forum you tried to argue in.



Here's a fact: Developers agree to say the PS3 is more powerful than the 360. It's a fact. And you can browse the net if you doubt it.

I do more than browse the net, I read major gaming news websites every day. And not just crappy places like IGN, i'm talking industry websites. And the general consensus is that there is little difference between the two.


As for RE4, i didn't say it sucked in comparison. I said the textures in any version of the game sucked. So saying it has better graphics than any X Box games might be wrong.

Resident Evil 4 has been voted by all major publications as the greatest graphical achievement of the previous generation, in design, polygon count, and textures. The only games which have better textures were some of the late-generation Xbox games with bump mapping, like Halo 2, Doom 3, and Half-Life 2. Also, the bump mapping in all of those games was very glitchy.

From a personal point of view (NOTE: THIS IS AN OPINION. I AM NOT STATING THIS AS FACT.), I'm currently playing Resident Evil 4 and Final Fantasy XII. Of the two, Resident Evil 4 is clearly better - it looks good on my HDTV, while FF12 is almost unplayable. I actually dug my old SDTV out of the closet to play FF12, so I could enjoy it. The character detail in Resident Evil 4 is amazing - almost as good as Dead Rising, an X360 game (though, obviously with far less polygons on screen at once.).

EDIT: Revan, if you tell me how to post in this forum again, i'll ban you. You have been the worst for not backing up your claims.

Revaninja
02-25-2007, 08:30 PM
My facts are true since really I haven't posted anything except for where a game starts so Yes I have posted true facts.

As for the release and then porting I will use the example of FFT alright FFT was made in 1997 or so I am not sure on this one since my copy is a 2001. Now it still gets sales but not as much as when it was just released as per normal with any games over 10 years or so old. Yet people are stoked over the fact a PSP port is being made I know for a fact that if I had a PSP I would buy it. It will generate sales glor for it because of One people who have played FFT ps will buy it to see what got added and changed for the port. Two Newbies who bought a PSP and see a FF game for it will buy it since FF does have something of a Name to it. Three complete Newbies will buy because it looks intresting. Four people who don't own a PS but do own a PSP will buy it when they hear it was a Port from PS.Five people will hear it is a port from a near 10 year old game and think oh they improved it I bet lets go see. Six the Fans of FFT will buy it because they are Fans. Also it will bring up sales in FFT when people ask wait there was a PS FFT well why wait I could buy it now and see what all the fuss is for less of a price. Basically a game released then ported a little after brings in sales by catching the attention of the fans who will buy it just because it has the name, it will catch people who may not have heard about it or had a different system then what it orignally had at the time, and it will bring attention to the old Game as well. Also let us not forgot that some people will also buy the CONSOLE just for that game. If you did it with FFVII remake now a days ALOT of people would do that.

As for your facts ONE link is all you have to back you up all those sites you say give you this info give us the LINKS let us read them and then we will see who is right wrong and a 'Whinning little bitch' in your OH so intelligant words.

As for Philosophy BULLSHIT. Philosophy is Debate on how the world works what we see and feel as well as how we think it should really be run Plato, Socertateus-I know I spelled that wrong-, and several others have all put forth their feelings on Society and the world. They have NEVER once used Logical facts to prove anything. The idea for Fire, Water, Wind, and Earth making up everything? Yeah that is a Philosophical discussion did they ever see a man made from Earth, Fire? No they didn't but they saw it in the world and felt everything must relfelct nature this they stressed it. You discuss Right wrong in Philosophy not facts because right and Wrong are all FEELINGS and OPNIONS. A common debate is does God exisit? A little hard to have facts on that one don't you think?

Science is Fact Alchemy is Logic this makes this happen and here is why. If you ever went to a Philosophical discussion YOU would be the one laughed at and you know why? I have been to it MANY such discussions we argue we debate but in the end all it comes down to is food for thought. Not you are right I am wrong like you seem to look for. A common saying is I never thought of it that way.

Here is the most rue Defination of Philosophy
The critical analysis of fundamental assumptions or beliefs

Get over your self you aren't all knowing you are just a regular Jack-ass like the rest of us.

hb smokey
02-25-2007, 08:41 PM
Wait a minute, you guys are getting this worked up over nothing? haha

In terms of the thread title, yeah, Square Enix is definately slipping away from Sony.

Raidenex
02-25-2007, 08:55 PM
My facts are true since really I haven't posted anything except for where a game starts so Yes I have posted true facts.

The conclusions you come to based on those facts are inaccurate. For an example, see directly below.


As for the release and then porting I will use the example of FFT alright FFT was made in 1997 or so I am not sure on this one since my copy is a 2001. Now it still gets sales but not as much as when it was just released as per normal with any games over 10 years or so old. Yet people are stoked over the fact a PSP port is being made I know for a fact that if I had a PSP I would buy it. It will generate sales glor for it because of One people who have played FFT ps will buy it to see what got added and changed for the port. Two Newbies who bought a PSP and see a FF game for it will buy it since FF does have something of a Name to it. Three complete Newbies will buy because it looks intresting. Four people who don't own a PS but do own a PSP will buy it when they hear it was a Port from PS.Five people will hear it is a port from a near 10 year old game and think oh they improved it I bet lets go see. Six the Fans of FFT will buy it because they are Fans. Also it will bring up sales in FFT when people ask wait there was a PS FFT well why wait I could buy it now and see what all the fuss is for less of a price. Basically a game released then ported a little after brings in sales by catching the attention of the fans who will buy it just because it has the name, it will catch people who may not have heard about it or had a different system then what it orignally had at the time, and it will bring attention to the old Game as well. Also let us not forgot that some people will also buy the CONSOLE just for that game. If you did it with FFVII remake now a days ALOT of people would do that.

Porting a game from an older system to a newer system is a very different prospect from porting a game from a rival system to another. In order for FF Tactics to work on the PSP, Square-Enix isn't emulating the PlayStation, they are literally reprogramming the game - almost as much work as making an entirely new game. You have to remember that profits = sales - cost, so even if you lump the PlayStation and PSP FF Tactics together, there will still be a cost increase as well as a sales increase.

Compared to a cross-platform development, like Prince of Persia, where Ubisoft had teams dedicated to working out the differences between the consoles, but working together - there is still a little extra cost involved, but it is marginal compared to the previous example.

Surely you can see that they are two completely different situations.


As for your facts ONE link is all you have to back you up all those sites you say give you this info give us the LINKS let us read them and then we will see who is right wrong and a 'Whinning little bitch' in your OH so intelligant words.

I provided links, and got told it was 360 biased, even when it obviously wasn't. If there are any other facts that you would like me to provide links to, please ask; apart from that, many of my points are just common sense. Like the simple idea that if a game is available to buy on more consoles, the developer stands to make more money through more sales.


As for Philosophy BULLSHIT. Philosophy is Debate on how the world works what we see and feel as well as how we think it should really be run Plato, Socertateus-I know I spelled that wrong-, and several others have all put forth their feelings on Society and the world. They have NEVER once used Logical facts to prove anything. The idea for Fire, Water, Wind, and Earth making up everything? Yeah that is a Philosophical discussion did they ever see a man made from Earth, Fire? No they didn't but they saw it in the world and felt everything must relfelct nature this they stressed it. You discuss Right wrong in Philosophy not facts because right and Wrong are all FEELINGS and OPNIONS. A common debate is does God exisit? A little hard to have facts on that one don't you think?

When there are no facts, there is logic. Philosophy actually works well when arguing this subject, because sales follow logical patterns. Arguing the existence of God is less suited to philosophy (even though philosophers insist on doing it) because God is beyond logic.



Though no definition of philosophy is uncontroversial, it is generally agreed to be a method, rather than a set of claims, propositions or theories. Its investigations are, unlike those of religion or superstition, wedded to reason, making no unexamined assumptions, no leaps based purely on analogy, revelation, or authority.

So, philosophy is a logical method wedded to reason. Not a bunch of lovey-dovey feelings. You sound more like a 70s love child than a philosopher.


Science is Fact Alchemy is Logic this makes this happen and here is why. If you ever went to a Philosophical discussion YOU would be the one laughed at and you know why? I have been to it MANY such discussions we argue we debate but in the end all it comes down to is food for thought. Not you are right I am wrong like you seem to look for. A common saying is I never thought of it that way.

Here is the most rue Defination of Philosophy
The critical analysis of fundamental assumptions or beliefs

You can read the full wiki article here:
[Only registered and activated users can see links]

The type of philosophy you're talking about is weak sauce. "Let's all talk about something and give our opinions". Real philosophy follows certain methods and reason, none of which you have demonstrated.


Get over your self you aren't all knowing you are just a regular Jack-ass like the rest of us.

I don't think i'm better than anyone. I just know that i'm telling the truth, and the opinions i'm arguing against are misinformed. I don't like to pussyfoot around to spare peoples feelings, so i'm sorry if I come across as abrasive. But the truth is the truth.

Revaninja
02-25-2007, 09:14 PM
I take Philosophy classes so I know what it is and what you describe is not it.
I can even bring in my Class tapes if I could find them from the move. Same with my notes. Philosophy is all about the none graspable such as would a society should be what is wrong right the proper way to raise Kids so forth and so forth. It is all filled with opnions nothing backs it up since alot of times what they think is the right way had other factors that helped create it that they were unaware. A Philosophier who claims to spew out Logic and facts alone and No opnion is a Liar. You have an Opnion then you try to connect the dots so to speak that is how it works.

Actually now that I think of it I think you are getting Sociology mixed with Philosophy. Sociology does the here is something come to a logical conculsion about it. Follow trends fads and find out why they got to that stage. That is all about Logic and reasoning.

As for the Cross rivarly console it still does the same thing I don't like Xbox but I love Kotor so I bought it for PC. It helps sales all around maybe not it fills in all consoles with sales but a Port will always drive up sales no matter what espically if say it was for origanally a system that you don't like and don't want that had a game that you wanted that was getting ported to a system you do like. It bulids the attention wets the desire for it if you let it sit on a console for awhile then port it over to a rival Console.

Give us the Links regeradless it helps back what you say and even if people think it is Xbox biased so be it you still have a gaming Magizine or site backing your words gives it a little creditability. So post them.

As for your truth we shall see. So far I have seen naught but your opnions.

Raidenex
02-25-2007, 09:17 PM
Then go and re-read my posts, Revan. The two links I posted back up all my statements succinctly.

Revaninja
02-25-2007, 09:33 PM
Hmm I only see one at it is a Wiki and I never trust wiki period. No offense meant but you were gone long enough to alter the articule to fit your situation. I had that happen to me once and I haven't trusted Wiki since.

Plus I am just backing out of the thread Philosophy I will gladly dabate. But Tech I won't as far as Tech if it does what I want and I can use it that is all I need. And Tech is where this thread is going I only meant to butt in to correct something and got dragged into it.

Sackboy
02-25-2007, 09:40 PM
Wait a minute, you guys are getting this worked up over nothing? haha

Quoted for truth.

Raidenex
02-25-2007, 09:58 PM
Hmm I only see one at it is a Wiki and I never trust wiki period. No offense meant but you were gone long enough to alter the articule to fit your situation. I had that happen to me once and I haven't trusted Wiki since.

Plus I am just backing out of the thread Philosophy I will gladly dabate. But Tech I won't as far as Tech if it does what I want and I can use it that is all I need. And Tech is where this thread is going I only meant to butt in to correct something and got dragged into it.

I've posted two separate links in which industry professionals - a game journalist, and a developer - both state that the PS3 and 360 have similar capabilities, and neither has a real advantage.

I have read and replied to every single one of your posts. If you can't even do me the courtesy of reading mine, your words are meaningless.

EDIT: Also, from an emotive point of view, I HATE being called a liar. I would NEVER edit a Wiki article to back up my argument, and I am insulted that you would even state such a thing. That's twice in this thread you've disrespected me - which isn't smart, considering that unlike you, i DO have authority on this forum.

Revaninja
02-25-2007, 10:17 PM
So As I said No offense meant I was just stating what has happened to me and why I don't trust wiki anymore it was no personal affront aimed at you just my experince and fellings on it is all. As for your links I haven't seen them but I did come in on page 2 I thought you meant in your post above mine a Misinterput of your words is all. I will in the morning since I am heading to bed soon go look at them then post a comment on them then truly leave this thread.

ROKI
02-25-2007, 10:24 PM
You guys say that XIII is going to be ported but you forget that if the game is being developed on Blue-ray there are 0 chances of porting.

J. Peterman
02-25-2007, 10:38 PM
He's saying XIV.

ROKI
02-25-2007, 10:48 PM
Any FF game on the PS3, it doesnt matter

J. Peterman
02-25-2007, 10:58 PM
It does matter if they develop XIV multi-console so they can boost profits. It would probably generate more money unless Sony wants to give them lots of money to make it exclusive. Suikoden VI is all that matters, though.

Hynad
02-26-2007, 12:17 AM
Here are some facts straight.

The link you wanted: [Only registered and activated users can see links]

ROKI
02-26-2007, 06:49 AM
It does matter if they develop XIV multi-console so they can boost profits. It would probably generate more money unless Sony wants to give them lots of money to make it exclusive. Suikoden VI is all that matters, though.

My point is that if Square develops any FF on the ps3 using the Blue Ray disc as the storage device, then it would be impossible to port that game on another consoles because Square would probably take advantage of the BR storage. Thats what I wanted to point out, that if XII or XIV use BRD then it will be almost impossible for these games to be ported

Prak
02-26-2007, 08:10 AM
ROKI, Blu-Ray is nothing more than the type of disc the games are printed on. It's fairly easily interchangable.

Raidenex
02-26-2007, 08:44 AM
Exactly. One game published on Blu-ray could just as easily be published on 3 DVDs. Besides, just because Microsoft is saying that they won't publish games on HD-DVD at the moment doesn't mean that they won't change their mind in the future.

Also Hynad: thank you for posting that article, it was the link I was looking for. All I ask is that you read that article in conjunction with the article I posted by Douglass C. Perry earlier (IGN's senior editor, no less), and the article by the industry developer. An important number that is not quoted there is bandwidth (ie, the speed from the processor and the gpu to the ram) which is less on the PS3, limiting its power slightly. If you want me to back up my words with a link - read my previous post.

Revaninja
02-26-2007, 09:29 AM
Raidenex I went back and looked I couldn't find your links to the article only your wiki can you please reload them. Or are they in a different thread? I really did go back and look I didn't see them so Relink.

Prak
02-26-2007, 09:38 AM
Here they are.

#1 ([Only registered and activated users can see links])
#2 ([Only registered and activated users can see links])

Hynad
02-26-2007, 10:02 AM
I don't know where you take your numbers Raidenex, but i'll post a more complete link:

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

When I watch these, I wonder where you can say the Memory Bandwidth of the PS3 is less than the 360.

Here's an other take on this. You can see that with numbers only, it is possible to make them say whatever pleases you.

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

Which comes back to one of my earlier point. Which is that we'll have to wait and see.
Considering the architecture of the Cell, I'm pretty sure once the Devs learn to use it properly, the 360, although giving an honoring fight, will be short handed.


And if you read your links properly Raidenex, this guy doesn't even know what he's talking about or you're just watching to what pleases you to make your points. Either way, it seems all those guys just don't really know how powerful the PS3 will turn out to be.


Performance: On paper, the PS3 is more powerful. In reality, it’s quite inferior to the 360. Without getting into too many details, the three general-purpose CPU’s the xbox360 has are currently FAR easier to take advantage of than the SPU’s on the PS3. I suspect a few years down the road some high budget, first party PS3 exclusive titles will come out that really take advantage of the SPU’s and do things the XBOX 360 can’t, but I don’t think the console is worth buying based on this speculation (for some it will be though, we'll have to wait and see how these games turn out).

As you can see, you're confusing ease of usage with power. The 360 has the advantage of being last gen technologies that work well together. The Cell has the disadvantage (for developers) of being an entirely new technology. Which complicate things a bit for devs.

Raidenex
02-26-2007, 10:04 AM
Nice up-to-date comparison from 2005 - before the release of either console, none-the-less.

Hynad
02-26-2007, 10:22 AM
the specs didn't change AT ALL since then.

Revaninja
02-26-2007, 10:37 AM
To be fair so is one of your articles PS3 came out Nov 17 2006 I just checked. The link Prak provided #1 is dated Nov 11 2006 while it appears to be a Tech analzyes alone I am not that into Computers to follow it all so I all I can say is the Date problem alone.

As for the second one it talks about problems like HD and DVD players as well as games and Graphics. Games it just came out Xbox360 has been out for nearly a year now it is not fair to compare them yet wait a bit before you do. HD and Graphics I know you have said this before and this Guy repeats the same thing about problems with Graphics but as a Player of Both Gamecube and Playstation I have yet to notice anything that takes away from Gameplay at all it looks different fine no harm done and I think it will be the same way with PS3 but that is an opnion. HD I have played a FFXII on a HD and I haven't noticed any problems with it graphics wise look better actually but then again I am playing on a clunky old model TV most of the time. The DVD part might be true but I have had my Used PS2 for years now and I have played many DVDs on it with no problems at all so this was the first time I have ever seen that problem and being able to replace the DVD part if it goes bad would be nice but I don't see why that makes Xbox360 better I can't go replace the Laser now can I? No So I say if it breaks down it breaks down and if I can fix it nice but not something to up or lower the value in a console for. Also to judge the Graphics in PS3 when the games haven't really hit the shelves is a big mistake I feel you should wait and see I mean no one expected FFX level of graphics from PS2 I sure didn't after playing DMC and Orphen so I will take a wait and see aporach on it. As for the Price I don't rememeber Xbox360's price when it first came out but I think it was ALOT higher then what PS3 has now so that is an unfair and invalid measure.

While I am not dismissing the Articule I can't until I get a PS3 and Xbox360 and compare them to see, I do feel this Articule doesn't give an unbiased opnion. If it had truly been unbiased it would have at least given something to PS3 maybe Controls Memory or something. There is always something that some consoles has that another doesn't that people like. But all of it is given to Xbox.A true win or just feeling? I don't know but it strikes me as strange. Also this articule was made 3 days after PS3 release it should take longer to compare a PS3 to an Xbox360 that is Civillian bought. The guy does say he is a Game Designer I belief it was but unless the company is giving out free PS3 before Release I don't see how he got his hands on one.

As I have said before I am not a Techie so these are my opnions on it and I can't give more since I don't own a PS3 or Xbox360.

Edit-Thanks Prak for the Links

Raidenex
02-26-2007, 10:39 AM
@Hynad:

OK, i'll concede: the PlayStation 3 is a more powerful computer than the Xbox 360.

But the Xbox 360 is a better gaming console than the PlayStation 3 - from a software development point of view.

You brought up the reason yourself in your last post: the word 'complicated'. in the IT industry, the word 'complicated' is interchangeable with the word expensive. I'm not sure how much programming experience you have, but multi-core programming is a complicated, expensive process; and it's made prohibitively harder given the fact that Sony is known for providing little documentation and buggy compilers. Software development on the 360 is based on DirectX, XNA and C# architecture: things that every first year IT student knows like the back of their hand. Programming for the Xbox 360 doesn't require years of deciphering like the PS3 does to 'unlock its potential'. Even amateurs can program for the 360 ([Only registered and activated users can see links]).

So, like Square-Enix stated (and i'm paraphrasing, here) - why fuck around and try to figure out all the nooks and crannies, when you can just buy a ready-made engine and focus on the good stuff - ie, the actual game? The reason that Unreal Engine 3.0 is so popular, especially on the PS3, is because it is built off the same similar architecture - DirectX, XNA and C.

Sure, we'll probably see some game that does amazing graphical backflips with the system (probably from the Ico and Shadow of the Colossus team); but the question is, will anyone care by that point?

@Revaninja:

To be fair so is one of your articles PS3 came out Nov 17 2006 I just checked. The link Prak provided #1 is dated Nov 11 2006 while it appears to be a Tech analzyes alone I am not that into Computers to follow it all so I all I can say is the Date problem alone.

The article was written by Douglass Perry of IGN; they received PlayStation 3 systems a fortnight before release.


As for the second one it talks about problems like HD and DVD players as well as games and Graphics. Games it just came out Xbox360 has been out for nearly a year now it is not fair to compare them yet wait a bit before you do. HD and Graphics I know you have said this before and this Guy repeats the same thing about problems with Graphics but as a Player of Both Gamecube and Playstation I have yet to notice anything that takes away from Gameplay at all it looks different fine no harm done and I think it will be the same way with PS3 but that is an opnion

Here, i actually agree with you, and is the point i've been trying to argue all along - the difference between the Xbox 360 and the PlayStation 3 will be negligible. Sometimes the PS3 will come out on top, sometimes the 360 will come out on top. I'm just trying to stem the Sony hyperbole that is trying to say that all PS3 games will look better than any 360 game. Microsoft was guilty of the same thing when they were going on about the Xbox 1's graphical ability; even though numbers-wise it was twice as powerful as the PS2 and GameCube, in reality graphics on the three consoles were fairly similar.


HD I have played a FFXII on a HD and I haven't noticed any problems with it graphics wise look better actually but then again I am playing on a clunky old model TV most of the time.

From personal experience, it looks better in SD than in HD. I've actually got my PS2 plugged into my HDTV via the standard RGB cables instead of my monster component cables, and i'm enjoying the graphics of the game more. The natural 'blur' that comes from using the lower quality cable has actually been used to good effect by Square Enix.


The DVD part might be true but I have had my Used PS2 for years now and I have played many DVDs on it with no problems at all so this was the first time I have ever seen that problem and being able to replace the DVD part if it goes bad would be nice but I don't see why that makes Xbox360 better I can't go replace the Laser now can I? No So I say if it breaks down it breaks down and if I can fix it nice but not something to up or lower the value in a console for.

I also agree with you on this. That part of the article came across as bullshit to me - the problem that PS2 drives have is with the CD-reading ability failing over time. My PlayStation 2, which I bought the year the PS2 was released, still plays DVDs fine - it can't read CDs though (so no PS1 games for me).


Also to judge the Graphics in PS3 when the games haven't really hit the shelves is a big mistake I feel you should wait and see I mean no one expected FFX level of graphics from PS2 I sure didn't after playing DMC and Orphen so I will take a wait and see aporach on it. As for the Price I don't rememeber Xbox360's price when it first came out but I think it was ALOT higher then what PS3 has now so that is an unfair and invalid measure.

If two people are having a running race, and one person starts running when the starter pistol is fired, and the other waits around at the starting line, I think it would be more than fair if the person who started running wins. What's unfair is to tell the person who started running to slow down and wait for the other person to catch up before deciding a winner.


While I am not dismissing the Articule I can't until I get a PS3 and Xbox360 and compare them to see, I do feel this Articule doesn't give an unbiased opnion. If it had truly been unbiased it would have at least given something to PS3 maybe Controls Memory or something. There is always something that some consoles has that another doesn't that people like. But all of it is given to Xbox.A true win or just feeling? I don't know but it strikes me as strange.

He states clearly at the beginning that it is an opinion piece, and inherently biased. That doesn't change the fact that the facts he provides are accurate, though.


Also this articule was made 3 days after PS3 release it should take longer to compare a PS3 to an Xbox360 that is Civillian bought. The guy does say he is a Game Designer I belief it was but unless the company is giving out free PS3 before Release I don't see how he got his hands on one.

Game developers have had PS3 debug units of the final model for approximately 3 months before launch, and prototype debug units up to a year earlier. You have to remember that games design is a long and complicated process.

Prak
02-26-2007, 10:42 AM
Guys, favoring one over the other doesn't necessarily mean the writer is biased.

And Hynad, you have no idea what you're talking about. Any idiot who paid attention while the consoles were under development knows that the PS3 specs changed considerably as it neared release.

ROKI
02-26-2007, 10:42 AM
ROKI, Blu-Ray is nothing more than the type of disc the games are printed on. It's fairly easily interchangable.


Exactly. One game published on Blu-ray could just as easily be published on 3 DVDs. Besides, just because Microsoft is saying that they won't publish games on HD-DVD at the moment doesn't mean that they won't change their mind in the future.


You are right, but I thought its been ages since they used this kind of solution. (looking at FF IX). I know this did happen with GC discs some times though.
Even if they used 3 DVDs, the game should be loosing something right? For example look at FFIX where you could not go anywhere you wanted to at the 4th disc. I know that CDs cannot be compared to DVDs but still,isnt this possible?

Prak
02-26-2007, 10:45 AM
Even if they used 3 DVDs, the game should be loosing something right? For example look at FFIX where you could not go anywhere you wanted to at the 4th disc. I know that CDs cannot be compared to DVDs but still,isnt this possible?

This is irrelevant. All the location data for the entire game is on each disc, as I recall. If the game meant to allow it, you would have been able to go anywhere. The fact that you couldn't had nothing to do with the fact that it was on multiple discs. It was merely the way the game was laid out.

Hynad
02-26-2007, 10:48 AM
Of course they'll care. Not everyone, but some people will. We all know that at some point, the dev tools will improve and the developers will get to know the PS3 better and the potential will be easier to use than it is right now. SE might use the U3 engine for its less popular franchises, while their main franshises (FF and DQ maybe) will use more budget to tap the power or the PS3.

As I said, only time will tell. You mention something about the PS3 being a better computer and the 360 a better gaming system. This again is only you opinion. In actuality, it is just a matter of ease of usage for the devs. But if they can use the same tools on both (i.e. the U3 Engine) then the higher processing power of the PS3 will give it an edge over the 360.

Hynad
02-26-2007, 10:53 AM
Prak: if they changed, then bring the actual specs here. People analysed the specs and ended up with the conclusions that the 2 tflops wont be usable for game play and graphics only. That's what I remember reading.

Sorry for the double posting :(

Raidenex
02-26-2007, 10:54 AM
Final Fantasy IX's limitations were for gameplay reasons, not because of insufficient memory. Most of the space on game CDs are taken up by two things - streaming audio and video, ie the soundtrack and cutscenes. Textures take up a lot of space, too, but the 9 GB of a DVD is more than enough to have textures and a fair bit of x.264 compressed HD video.

It's not just theoretical, either; Mistwalker's Blue Dragon is the first Xbox 360 game to come on 3 DVDs. They use the extra space mainly for the HD cutscenes.

Edit:

Hynad, can I ask you a question? Why the hell does it matter to you so much that the PS3 look better than the Xbox 360? The main reason i'm even bothering to argue with you is because fanboyism is my pet hate; though it's a bit of a vicious cycle, because fanboys are the ones least likely to listen to reason.

Prak
02-26-2007, 10:56 AM
Hynad, I don't owe it to you to prove anything. You owe it to yourself to know what you're talking about, so go dig up old news from around that time for yourself. You'll find it just as easily as I could.

Hynad
02-26-2007, 11:07 AM
LOL, i already watched. Here are the official specs from Sony.

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

If you think they really changed, then how come the analists are basing their stuff on the same original specs? I figure they are not all as dumb as you want me to be... or are they?

Mario Kinnikuman
02-26-2007, 02:11 PM
I believe that Square Enix., being the third-party developer they are, and others in general, are therefore enabled to be more capable of being flexible to the masses in terms of financially capitalizing off each system, and thereby generating more revenue exponentially than by restricting it to one specific system. Of course, it's contingent on the technical aspects of the individual system that can accommodate the game, and the degree of possible changes needed to make the game compatible, sans degrading the game to shoddy quality.

Dragonsoul
02-26-2007, 02:52 PM
I haven't read this thread completely but I heard somebody say that the Playstation 3 is by fact more powerful than the Xbox 360. I thought this was debatable. How should I research this exactly? Maybe go to Wikipedia and check the stats? :)

iceberg325
02-26-2007, 03:01 PM
If I were SE I would be upset at sony too. FF11 was released for the ps2 along with a hard drive. Sony promised so much when this hard drive wwas released. How many of those promises were kept? Now they decided to stop manufacturing the old ps2 and they released a slim ps2. This slim ps2 can not support the hard drive, so what happens to FF11? SE got kicked in the ass big time.

Its time to move on. The FF series has legs no matter what system its released on. I would love to see FF14 for the ps3 and the 360.

z.zetsumei
02-28-2007, 12:48 PM
That's what PS2 hacking is for.

I've got a 400 gig hard drive in mine with a bunch of ISOs ripped to it.
The slim PS2 can be modded to read a hard drive via USB.

Dragonsoul
02-28-2007, 02:53 PM
Z.Zetsumei, please tell me more info. I haven't researched this. But what are the abilities of a PS 2 hard drive?

iceberg325
02-28-2007, 03:52 PM
That's what PS2 hacking is for.

I've got a 400 gig hard drive in mine with a bunch of ISOs ripped to it.
The slim PS2 can be modded to read a hard drive via USB.

Problem is, not enough people know about this.

Neriek
03-04-2007, 03:32 AM
Hello everyone, first post here.

I have not read the whole thread, but I have read the first page and a half, so I do know what is been descussed, and I want to post my opinion on the matter.

My answer to the thread title - Yes.

I think that SE is realising that the PS3 is not their best option to put their on, because it is not selling all that well ight now, and I really cannot see it selling well in Europe because of the feature cutbacks and price. If they really want to get the most out of a game, and since FF is their biggest series worldwide, they will want to put it onto a console that would probably have the most people playing on it, and, since the Wii would not be a good idea for the series IMO, the next option is the 360.

As for console power, that has absolutly NOTHING to do with what system they will end up choosing for. Well, it will have some influence, but I am sure that they are more bothered about where the money is. The PS2, the least powerful of all of the last generation of consoles (not including the Dreamcast) was the most popular.

So, I think that it would be good for the company to release the next FF game on the 360, or at least multiplatform.

And, as far as trademark games go, the only ones that are, are ones that have always been on that companies consoles.

Hynad
03-04-2007, 04:54 PM
Raidenex: I'm no fanboy really. Only if I know for sure the PS3 is more powerful than the 360, I won't pretend otherwise. People are arguing this by looking at the launch games of the PS3 compared to those that just came out on the 360. The PS3 is a tough machine to crack, so of course it will take some getting used-to for devs to take advantage of all the system's power.
Concidering the launch titles of the PS3 are easily comparable to the "one year later" games of the 360, it's not hard to see the PS3 will have a graphic advantage over the 360 (If you don't want to talk about numbers and tech, then I give you a simple example. :P)

It is not really important to me what system have the most power. What is important to me, is that I get my games on the system I choose. And right now, I'm pissed because there are interesting games on every systems (well, not on the PS3 yet, but there are some upcoming titles that I know will end up being musts) and right now, I don't have the money to afford them all.

Raidenex
03-04-2007, 06:52 PM
It is not really important to me what system have the most power. What is important to me, is that I get my games on the system I choose. And right now, I'm pissed because there are interesting games on every systems (well, not on the PS3 yet, but there are some upcoming titles that I know will end up being musts) and right now, I don't have the money to afford them all.

Haha, you know what's funny? Deep down, that's probably the reason i'm arguing. Don't get me wrong, i'm not abandoning my point just yet - I still believe that we're not going to see PS3 titles substantially better than 360 titles, ever - but the main reason I argue so vehemently is because I've got Microsoft's white box in front of me, and I don't know if I can come up with the freaking thousand dollars for Sony's black box.

Which also demonstrates how important exclusivity can be - for selling consoles. Still, I don't think that's a relative argument for Square Enix - if Sony is paying them any money for exclusivity of the FF franchise, it would have to be less (by necessity) than the profit they would make off sales on another system. It might just be hard for them to forsee that because, as a Japanese company, in their eyes the X360 is a failure.

Still, at least the system is getting some Japanese RPG love. The trailers for Blue Dragon and Lost Odyssey look just as impressive as the Final Fantasy XIII trailer.

Hynad
03-04-2007, 07:16 PM
I disagree about Lost Odyssey looking as impressive as FFXIII. The real Time stuff I've seen so far were looking good, but not great. At least not as great as what we saw from the XIII teaser. I know it wasn't real time, or not everything of it was real time. But I'm pretty sure it won't look as good as FFXIII.

Blue Dragon looks good though and I like how it respected Toriyama's style so flawlessly. For any RPG lovers, the current 'next-gen' system to choose right now is the 360. Blue Dragon, Lost Odyssey and Oblivion are 3 AAA titles that I'm looking for. But if something can come out for the PS3 and justify the its purchase, like FFXIII, then I'll probably end up buying it instead of a 360.

Ideally, I would buy every systems but my wallet just won't allow me to do so. Whatever people think, if you've already stepped in the HD era, the PS3 is a nice bargain. A blu-Ray player is even more expensive than a PS3, so the choice is obvious if you're looking for a high definition movie player.

Dragonsoul
03-05-2007, 03:21 PM
Hynad, the first great console exclusive ps 3 rpg might be White Knight Story, hopefully it's out in Spring 2008. Rogue Galaxy is great, so White Knight Story(by Level 5 also) might be also. We got a year and a half for FF XIII in Usa though.

Anyways, Xbox 360 has the games put on dvd's, not hd dvds. Ps 3 has the games on blu ray, not dvd's. Ps 3 has a bluray drive included, but that increases the price a lot. How much more successful would the PS 3 be if they used dvd's in the console and for games instead of Blu-Ray and had a lower price as a result of this? What price would it be?

Hynad
03-05-2007, 03:25 PM
it would be about the same price the X-Box 360 is.

iceberg325
03-05-2007, 07:07 PM
Or how about X the whole dvd player idea and have the same price as the wii lol.

Hynad
03-05-2007, 08:21 PM
The DHD player is not the only reason why the 360 and the PS3 are more expensive. The processors and GPU on both consoles are way more hi-tech than the Wii ones.

Andyuk
03-05-2007, 09:36 PM
Ps3 games can be stored on dvds too. Bluray drives are compatible if i recall.

Hynad
03-05-2007, 09:38 PM
yes, it reads regular DVDs (it can play PS2 games afterall), but not HD DVDs.

Dragonsoul
03-06-2007, 09:33 PM
How good or bad of a move would it have been if the Playstation 3 had its games stored on Dvd's and not Blu-Ray, and also did not include a Blu-Ray drive in the console, but just a dvd drive like the Playstation 2? I think this would be advantageous, right? :D

Hynad
03-06-2007, 10:15 PM
not quite. In order for their games to be in full HD, they need a better storage medium to stock all the heavy HD content. Early games won't use all the storage space there is on a Blu-Ray disc, but in a year or so, many games will fit on a single blu-ray disc, but would require somewhere like 5 DVDs. HD textures + hi poly models + HD videos + digital sound = DVD is not enough.

Of course, you can still argue that the time to jump to HD was not quite right. Seems like Sony wants to haste things up a bit.

J. Peterman
03-06-2007, 10:21 PM
THAT'S BECAUSE SONY WANTS MY MONEY

Dragonsoul
03-07-2007, 01:13 PM
What are the pros and cons of just using 5 dvd's instead of one Blu-Ray disc for a game in a couple years?

Raidenex
03-23-2007, 06:29 PM
Guess I was a little premature in saying that FF14 would be the first multiplatform Final Fantasy:

Clicky ([Only registered and activated users can see links])

Sony Computer Entertainment France's President has announced that exclusivity for FF13 is currently in discussion, and is in doubt.

This follows the news that Square-Enix's White Engine has been successfully ported to the Xbox 360.

ROKI
03-24-2007, 12:46 AM
That was unexpected! Also, Virtual Fighter 5 will be on Xbox 360 too.

Revaninja
03-24-2007, 01:36 AM
The only problem I have with it is one so far every NEW FF has been for Sony then later released on a Different system which they might still do though so far only the old Snes and Nes titles have been remade or ported so far with the exception of FFXI. And Two this is the first time I have heard about it and so far only by the French branch which I didn't even know that sony HAD a french branch.
Does this mean anything? Not really only time will tell if this is true, Dies out in negotation or just a misplaced comment. So we shall see in the coming months the truth behind this.

Raidenex
03-24-2007, 09:18 AM
European branches have a habit of breaking news that the American and Japanese branches want silenced, because they don't really know any better. A lot of them are just localisation hubs who read confidential company memos and talk about them to the press.

Viva la France, I say.

Neriek
03-25-2007, 04:02 AM
And, what is America then? Last I checked, they mad games in Japan, and localised them in americ, which is mostly what that base if for. No reason to be hostile against the European branch. (No, I do not know a lot about the different branches)

Hynad
03-25-2007, 05:47 AM
Raidenex: Except for the fact that you hate the french for probably no decent reasons, can you come up with anything to back your full of shit comment?

Neriek
03-25-2007, 12:50 PM
I agree with Hynad. I am sure that the different regions talk with each other.

Square Enix is a profession country, and, as far as I am aware, it was Sony that made that comment to the public, not Square Enix.

Prak
03-25-2007, 03:45 PM
Neriek, you are an idiotic cunt. The fact that you agree with anyone only discredits their position.

Hynad, unless you can offer some kind of evidence to show that Raidenex's comment is indeed bullshit, he has no obligation to back it up at all. As far as I can see, you're calling it bullshit simply because you don't want to believe it. However, if you have no proof or reasonable analyses with which to support your position, his at least deserves the benefit of doubt. And you're a cunt for not giving it.

Neriek
03-25-2007, 04:13 PM
If that is what you think, who am I to change your opinion. And, after looking around, there was never even mention that it was a French base of Square Enix that mentioned anything. It was the Sony Computer Entertainment France that said it, and they are the ones that had the interview.

And, saying that people from a region only read classified reports and then release the info sounds like they hate it to me. From what I have read here ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) Sony released this info after talking DIRECTLY to Square Enix about the situation.

Like I said, I can not change your opinion of me, and I care very little about it. I am just stating my opinion. And, agreeing with someone means that you are willing to admit when you are right and wrong, so who looks like an idiot for not agreeing with anyone?

Raidenex
03-25-2007, 06:35 PM
Lol. Sony fanboys crack me up, they really do.

For starters, i'm not 'hating' on anyone - Sony Computer Entertainment Europe is my 'local' branch so to speak, because for some reason they lump Australia in with Europe. Go figure. SCEE has an Australian branch too, and pretty much their only job is PR and localisation; which you'll find is the same in any SCE branch apart from the major first-party development ones; SCEI (Japan), SCEA (America) and SCEE England (the artists formally known as Psygnosis).

Also, the 'reading the memo and blurting it out' was a bit of idle speculation; the main focus was meant to be on the announcement. The reason I stated that specific piece of info is because on the other side of the tracks, Microsoft Australia has leaked 360 information (like the upcoming X360 Elite pack) in the same way.

Oh, and Neriek; of course a branch of SCE spoke to Square-Enix directly. That would be SCEI (Japan), unless they suddenly decided to let the French localisation branch handle all their intra-country business now.

Hynad
03-25-2007, 06:54 PM
Prak: Go troll somewhere else. You come in here to show you're what, a judge? Raidenex didn't offer anything to back his claims. Learn to read a bit before crusading against us all. Because right now, you act like a total moron.

You act like the most stupid judge I have ever seen. Your replies are totally uncalled for and empty of any sense of reason. You are just a man full of himself who still got a long way to go to make his closed minded brain evolve in any sense. Unless you can come up with a way to evolve from the stone age of mind to the Info age, then don't fucking bother.

You don't even realize that your actions are those of the cunt you like to shoot at everyone. You come in every conversation to tell people they're stupid and cunts and that you think your egotistic ideas are better suited to the mass, while failing to make your point across by saying: that's it, not this, without saying anything to back it up.

You have the arguing ability of a spoiled rotten child. When you grow up a bit, then come and we'll talk. Until then, keep admiring yourself in your mirror, little piece of narcissist shit.

Raidenex
03-25-2007, 07:52 PM
Raidenex didn't offer anything to back his claims.

Are you kidding? I linked to a freaking article that said what I said, word for word =/

Neriak even linked to another article that backed up my source.

Maybe you should do people the courtesy of listening to what they say before shooting your mouth off.

Hynad
03-25-2007, 08:44 PM
That's not what I said Raidenex. What I think you didn't back up are your claims about the European branches. Not the actual news.

Here:
European branches have a habit of breaking news that the American and Japanese branches want silenced, because they don't really know any better. A lot of them are just localisation hubs who read confidential company memos and talk about them to the press.

Viva la France, I say.

Raidenex
03-25-2007, 08:53 PM
It was just an offhand comment, for fucks sake.

I've got no idea what SCE's French branch does - they could be Sony's covert industrial espionage branch for all I know.

The most realistic scenario, though, is that they are in charge of distribution of PlayStation hardware and software, public relations and advertising campaigns, industrial relations with French developers (like Ubisoft) and yes, localisation into French.

I seriously don't know why you're so busting to pick a fight over this - unless it's to draw attention away from the actual announcement.

Hynad
03-25-2007, 09:14 PM
Nope, personally, I think it's good news if they end up doing both a 360 and a PS3 versions (and maybe a PC version?). What I dislike though is when an english person or whatever comes and talk shit about the french, or when they talk bull about something they have no ideas (you clearly expressed that you don't know much in that last comment of yours).

Raidenex wrote:
I've got no idea what SCE's French branch does - they could be Sony's covert industrial espionage branch for all I know.

For all I know, even if it's a localisation center, they're still a branch of Square-Enix, so I doubt they would leak anything if the info is supposed to stay confidential. They wouldn't shoot themselves like that without assuming the consequences. Be it the American branch leaking the info of the European one, the important thing is that we know they are considering the possibility, and that is great news for us gamer. If it was intended or not, if it was supposed to be leaked or not... nobody knows and trying to say they don't know any better is completly wrong since you said yourself that you're the one who doesn't know any better.

Raidenex
03-25-2007, 10:13 PM
Nope, personally, I think it's good news if they end up doing both a 360 and a PS3 versions (and maybe a PC version?). What I dislike though is when an english person or whatever comes and talk shit about the french, or when they talk bull about something they have no ideas (you clearly expressed that you don't know much in that last comment of yours).

Look, I don't know where you've got this bullshit idea that i've got something against the French, but I don't. I was more referring to the fact that it was a minor subsiduary of a larger business; the Australian branch is just as unimportant in the grand scheme of things.



For all I know, even if it's a localisation center, they're still a branch of Square-Enix, so I doubt they would leak anything if the info is supposed to stay confidential. They wouldn't shoot themselves like that without assuming the consequences. Be it the American branch leaking the info of the European one, the important thing is that we know they are considering the possibility, and that is great news for us gamer. If it was intended or not, if it was supposed to be leaked or not... nobody knows and trying to say they don't know any better is completly wrong since you said yourself that you're the one who doesn't know any better.

If you would read the article instead of just shooting your mouth off, you'd realise that it was a representative of SONY, not Square-Enix. And of course they would leak confidential information; it happens all the time. Someone who knows something mentions it offhand to a journalist (which is EXACTLY what happened here), and the info gets out.

If there is any discussion going on between Sony Computer Entertainment and Square-Enix, it would be between the Japanese branches of each. Which stands to reason that if SCEE's France office has heard about discussions, it would have been from SCEI itself.

Leaks like these happen all the time - sometimes even from high profile people or developers (see David Jaffe shooting his mouth off about Sony. It's hilarious). Personally, I think it's fantastic that it isn't being hidden.

And because you've proven time and time again that you only read parts of posts, i'll sum this up for you:

Stop making a huge deal out of this, no-one is insulting your french cousins.

Hynad
03-25-2007, 10:34 PM
I always read all the posts completely. So shut up with that.
Now, if it's not the business of the french branch, and if it's confidential, why would they know? Obviously, if it's confidential, and the french branch is only there for localisation and disctibution purposes, then why the hell would they know that big a news if they aren't even implied in the negotiations?
And as you pointed out, it's not even Square-Enix (my mistake, I got carried away by your 'bash the french" comment[yeah, they don't know any better... right?]) so why would you say it's a leak? It appears to me that it is like any other news out there.

My guess is that it wasn't confidential at all.

Raidenex
03-25-2007, 11:18 PM
:O

You're a fucking nutball.

For starters, they would know, because obviously all the branches have to be kept appraised of important events in the company. Losing Final Fantasy XIII as an exclusive title would be a pretty fucking big deal.

I chose the wrong words when I said 'didn't know any better'. It was a little bit of a joke at the expense of a small arm of a corporate branch, not at the French in general. Like I stated above, it's happened in the past - a lot. If you keep on top of gaming news like I do, most breakthrough announcements don't come from the top; they come from people who haven't kept their mouths shut.

I really don't understand your whole "NO SECRETS COULD HAVE BEEN LEAKED OUT" stance, because it happens all the time. Myer, a major Australian retail chain, recently trained it's games staff on knowledge about a 'black Xbox 360 with HDMI output and a 120GB hdd'. Since then, news about the X360 Elite has flooded the market; and Microsoft still deny all knowledge. 'Secrets' are pretty fluid in the age of investigative journalism.

That's not the only case; EB frequently lets the cat out of the bag by placing games that have not been announced up on their website in the coming soon section.

Get over yourself, Hynad. Your whinging and bitching about every little detail is tiring.

Hynad
03-25-2007, 11:56 PM
I wasnt even whining nor bitching in my last comment so get over it. You're the one calling me a nutball when i just told you to shut up and have some respect for the other contries. Now you apologies but try to come out of it big by insulting me. That's kinda lame of you.

Now if you follow the videogame industry carefully, then you should know that you have no idea if this was a leak, if it was or not confidential, or if you're just assuming things here. And as far as I know, I doubt EB have insiders in the many companies. If they do, good for them. But pointing out that they put games that are not yet announced as a fact that there are a lot of people who leak stuff... You do realise that many games that were shown on their site that weren't announced didn't even see the light of day? I take these so called "leaked announcement" as nothing else then speculations on their part, which are most of the time based on rumors like this new Kid Ikaru game for the Wii.

Raidenex
03-26-2007, 12:14 AM
I wasnt even whining nor bitching in my last comment so get over it. You're the one calling me a nutball when i just told you to shut up and have some respect for the other contries. Now you apologies but try to come out of it big by insulting me. That's kinda lame of you.

Haha, what the fuck? I'm apologising now? How can I apologize when I wasn't insulting the french to begin with?

Mind you, I think ONE French Canadian on this website is filling a lot of the stereotypical 'french' personality quirks. Aren't you, you stuck-up frog eating hockey watching dick stick?


Now if you follow the videogame industry carefully, then you should know that you have no idea if this was a leak, if it was or not confidential, or if you're just assuming things here.

Of course I don't know. I never even stated it WAS a leak; in my first post, I posted nothing but the facts (that SCEE's French Office President said something), and my second post was that leaks often occur. I personally believe it was information that Sony would have preferred not to be published, but it's not some big issue.


And as far as I know, I doubt EB have insiders in the many companies. If they do, good for them. But pointing out that they put games that are not yet announced as a fact that there are a lot of people who leak stuff... You do realise that many games that were shown on their site that weren't announced didn't even see the light of day? I take these so called "leaked announcement" as nothing else then speculations on their part, which are most of the time based on rumors like this new Kid Ikaru game for the Wii.

I never claimed EB had insiders. They do, however, get told about games first in a lot of cases, because they are a major distributer. Games get put on their catalogue when the game companies tell them to.

Besides, every rumour has a grain of truth; Kid Icarus did end up being released on the Wii.

Now, go back to your crepes, frenchie.

(Apologies to any other French or Canadian residents who might read this.)

Lil' Sain
03-26-2007, 04:25 AM
they just want it so everyone with basic;y 1 console can play sq games

Hynad
03-26-2007, 05:15 AM
Raidenex: keep feeding it, cunt.


I chose the wrong words when I said 'didn't know any better'. It was a little bit of a joke at the expense of a small arm of a corporate branch, not at the French in general.

...and I took that for an apology. But yeah, right? You were just justifying the fact that you don't know any better.

Prak
03-26-2007, 07:02 AM
Have I ever mentioned that I fucking love reading Hynad's posts? I've never seen a cunt so full of himself before. I also love how he can go on tirades about me without even realizing that nobody cares because he's nothing but a laughingstock to us.

Hynad
03-26-2007, 07:05 AM
I've never seen a cunt so full of himself before.

That would apply to you, not me. Look at yourself and you might notice that you're the one who cannot have any civil conversations with anyone since you think you hold all the answers and the immutable truth. And anyone who aren't agreeing with you are supposed to be cunts, fucktards or morons. Grow up.

You closed minded and narcissist attitude is what I call laughable.

Prak
03-26-2007, 07:17 AM
If you were less full of yourself and a bit more open-minded, you'd realize that I really do have all the answers and that I am always right. Grow up and learn to respect your betters.

Hynad
03-26-2007, 10:28 AM
I always respect my betters. You only fail to fit in that category.

Prak
03-26-2007, 11:00 AM
You don't recognize your betters because your head is up your own ass. And as I'm not your proctologist, I'm not going in there after you.

Hynad
03-26-2007, 02:31 PM
LOL

You're a funny guy, keep 'em coming!

Revaninja
03-26-2007, 04:02 PM
Hey does anyone know if there has been a statement confirming or denying French branch's Statement on FFXIII being Multiplatform? It has been a couple days now so I figured Square-enix would have said something by now.

Lil' Sain
03-26-2007, 05:05 PM
sq should make a role playing hockey game to add to there crap

Neriek
03-28-2007, 01:24 AM
Well, I do not know if anyone has done this already, but here are the reasons that XIII will at might be on the 360 as well:
-Square Enix bought the Unreal Engine, so they might be switching engines, which is causing delay.
-The article about XIII exclusivity been in question is a big one
-It been revealed that the White Engine was actually designed to be multi-platform.

I think that it would be in Square Enix's best intrest to release it on the 360 so that it might sell well in the west, as the 360 is, as well as the PS3, so that it will sell in Japan.

Revaninja
03-28-2007, 01:36 AM
Uh sorry to burst your bubble but Sales for PS3 and 360 from everything I have seen are nearly equal with the New 360 expansion package, which brings into light how reasonable PS3's price really is, maybe putting a hamper on sales. On time will tell on that. But so far beyond the One-year stretch Ownership of a System is pretty equal.
Yes it will increase Sales of FFXIII if it is Multi-platform but it will sell just as well in West or East wether it is on PS3 or also Xbox360. The system rarely plays all that much of a pivotal role in Game sales usually it is series Type and company that change sales.

And the White engine wasn't designed for Multi-platform it has been succesfully converted for Multi-platform big difference there. They wont switch engines for FFXIII its been in design too long with one engine type and since White can now go Multi it makes no sense to any way to switch. That exclusivity article is not in question since it was made awhile back what IS in question is the truth behind French Branch saying FFXIII will be Multi. Square-enix hasn't said a word offically as far as I know so for all we know an Employee could have heard talks about increasing sales by going Multi then talked to a reporter. Until the Offical Statement and even release nothing is ceratin nor written in stone.

So I will say again only time will tell.

Lil' Sain
03-28-2007, 02:46 AM
time takes to fucking long. lets hit fast 4wrd

Sandal Hat
03-28-2007, 05:40 AM
So far the hint that FF XIII might be exclusive is the only thing keeping me from purchasing a 360. It would be nice draw to microsoft gaming as it's what drew me to my ps1 in the first place.

Prak
03-28-2007, 06:40 AM
Why does anyone care about FFXIII in the first place? It looks like utter shit. =/

ROKI
03-28-2007, 06:55 AM
Well even if it is totally crap the fans will buy it

Prak
03-28-2007, 06:57 AM
True, but a great many Final Fantasy fans would buy anything with that name even if it was nothing but a turd with a chocobo stamped on it.

Hynad
03-28-2007, 06:59 AM
I don't think it looks like crap so far. We don't have much info about the game yet, so I think only time will tell if it turns out to be great or not.

Prak
03-28-2007, 07:02 AM
We have enough info to know that the developers are focusing on making it as flashy and mainstream as possible. That's never a good sign.

Hynad
03-28-2007, 07:05 AM
I don't think it is their only goal. Square has always been known to be developers that push the graphic works of their games to a higher level. So far the game looks fantastic graphically. But we don't know much about the gameplay or the story. So that's why I'm saying only time will tell.

I hope it turns out to be a great game. And I hope there's a good reason the female character has the stupid name "Lightning".

Neriek
03-28-2007, 07:09 AM
Uh sorry to burst your bubble but Sales for PS3 and 360 from everything I have seen are nearly equal with the New 360 expansion package, which brings into light how reasonable PS3's price really is, maybe putting a hamper on sales. On time will tell on that. But so far beyond the One-year stretch Ownership of a System is pretty equal.
Yes it will increase Sales of FFXIII if it is Multi-platform but it will sell just as well in West or East wether it is on PS3 or also Xbox360. The system rarely plays all that much of a pivotal role in Game sales usually it is series Type and company that change sales.

And the White engine wasn't designed for Multi-platform it has been succesfully converted for Multi-platform big difference there. They wont switch engines for FFXIII its been in design too long with one engine type and since White can now go Multi it makes no sense to any way to switch. That exclusivity article is not in question since it was made awhile back what IS in question is the truth behind French Branch saying FFXIII will be Multi. Square-enix hasn't said a word offically as far as I know so for all we know an Employee could have heard talks about increasing sales by going Multi then talked to a reporter. Until the Offical Statement and even release nothing is ceratin nor written in stone.

So I will say again only time will tell.
Ah, sorry about that then. I did not know that my facts were so screwed. And, I thought that the PS3 was not doing to well at all? But then again, I usually get Nintendo consoles, so I am probably comparing it to the sales if the Wii, which I suppose is not a good estimation.

Also, I did not mean to list my opinions as facts, so, I apologise for that.

And, why are you posting in a thread about a game you think looks like crap? Your logic makes little sense to me.

Prak
03-28-2007, 07:15 AM
You'd have to be blind or totally uninformed to not see what I'm talking about. What we know about the gameplay so far is that it's going to be turn-based and modeled as heavily as possible after the kind of action scenes in the crappy FFVII movie.

Then factor in the Lightning character, which is, by Square's own admission, modeled after Cloud, even down to the weather-related name. It's obvious that they're sacrificing any sort of artistic integrity in order to appeal to their most zealous supporters. And that's bad news.

Hynad
03-28-2007, 07:23 AM
Yeah Prak. That's what we know. But you should know that it's not that much infos. Sure, they want the battles to look like the action scenes from AC, but how will it play? Do you know? Nope, you don't. It can end up being fun to play, and even if the character is a lost crybaby like Cloud, the story around her can end up being better than FFVII (that wouldn't be so hard huh?).
It can also end up being the worst game ever made. But I don't think we'll know for sure until the game is out.

Prak
03-28-2007, 07:33 AM
So tell me this. Do you agree or disagree that the information we've received so far is unimpressive at best?

Hynad
03-28-2007, 07:35 AM
So far, I'm not impressed. I give you this.

But I try to keep an open mind, and hope it will turn out to be as good gameplay-wise as it is to look at.

Revaninja
03-28-2007, 07:36 AM
I do have to agree only time will tell. From what I have seen FFXIII's Battle system looks intresting to play at least and the graphics look stunning. What little plot I have read about also looks to be good with a whole Criminal organization/savior feal to it. Will it be good or bad I don't know I will reserve my judgement for until I have palyed the game which I plan on getting because it looks intresting.

Games can have all the flash and not be a good game like FFX-2, while a Game could have no Flash and be a really Good game like Wild arms 1. But sometimes you get a mixture of both that really rocks your socks like FFX, Metal gear, Legacy of Kain. It is always up in the Air just how good a game really is.

Prak
03-28-2007, 07:42 AM
Okay Hynad, we're in agreement that what we've seen so far is not impressive. Now consider this: What's been released is meant to be impressive. It's supposed to have us eagerly anticipating the release of the game. If we're looking at the things that are supposed to wow us and saying "So what?" then that's a very bad sign of things to come. All we can judge is what we have access to, so we owe it to ourselves and to the developers to put our genuine impressions out there. If we have concerns, we need to voice them instead of taking the wait and see approach.

Revaninja, you're full of crap. I don't know what your standards are, but they're pretty stupid if you call FFX-2 a bad game and think that FFX, Metal Gear, and Legacy of Kain have the best of both worlds. FFX-2 had fun and well-balanced gameplay, even if it did have some glaring issues. It wasn't tremendously great, but it was still pretty good. And the games you mentioned as being the best of everything all have mediocre gameplay that takes a back seat to storytelling.

Hynad
03-28-2007, 07:50 AM
Prak, with all due respect, I disagree there. The only clear infos we've got so far is about the graphics. We've had bits of infos about the setting and the use of crystals in the game as well as some infos about the character "Lightning". But nothing much was mentioned about the battle system or the actual story except that they want to give it a cinematic feel.
I'm not really impressed so far because I don't have much infos. Everything can change in the coming months as more infos will be revealed. When FFXII was first revealed to the public, I was skeptical because it looked like they wanted to change too many things I love from the franchise. But as I played the game, I came to enjoy all those changes they made, my only complain being about the story and the lack of airship usefulness and not the actual gameplay. The same thing is happening right now with FFXIII. They built a really fun gameplay with XII but they change it yet again for XIII. Will I like it or not? I don't know yet because I don't have enough stuff to make a definite judgment. When they'll reveal more about the game and give me a better picture of what is really going on , then I'll be in a better position to voice my concerns.

Prak
03-28-2007, 07:52 AM
I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree then.

Hynad
03-28-2007, 07:55 AM
That would be a first, and I greatly welcome that.

Revaninja
03-28-2007, 07:57 AM
That is bullsh- Prak, I never said they were the best just that they rocked my socks an OPNION Prak nothing more. I think FFX-2 wasn't a very good game I thought Legacy of Kain defience was a Good game with good graphics I never once tried to urge my likes on to you don't try to urge yours on to me. It has been clear we enjoy different Games and attributes in the Past and once again.

Also sales and reviews back me up that FFX, Metal Gear, LOK are good games so we will have to agree to disagree once again.

Prak
03-28-2007, 08:02 AM
No, I won't agree to disagree with you. You did not state your views on those games as opinion. You stated it as truth.

And as for sales and reviews, perhaps you didn't notice, but a lot of utter shit manages to sell if it has a big brand name on it. Reviews for all of those games (especially unpaid reviews, since those are generally more credible due to not having to please advertisers) typically made mention of problems with gameplay in all of those.

Hynad
03-28-2007, 08:06 AM
I have to say that I tend to like almost any kind of games.
But all for different reasons.
Sometimes I want to sit there and enjoy a good storytelling game, like Metal Gear Solid, Final Fantasy, Shenmue or Suikoden.
Sometime I'm in the mood for more action oriented games like Gradius 5, Street Fighter Alpha 3, Excite Truck or Zelda.
I even play puzzle and mind games like Meteos, Tetris or Go (an asian board game in the same family of Chess)...

It all depends on the mood I'm in. Sometime I prefer what I call an interactive movie because I feel like relaxing when other times I need a challenge and play Gradius 5 at the highest difficulty.

All these games succeed in what I want them to: Give me a great time.

While some people might not like the same games you do, insulting people because they like it and you don't is juvenile. The goal of a game is to give the player fun. And time has taught me that every gamers out there are not playing games for the same reasons.

Prak
03-28-2007, 08:11 AM
Hynad, you just don't understand me. I don't insult people for liking things. I like some truly awful things myself, as a matter of fact. I insult people for not knowing the difference between their likes and actual quality. And please don't try to say there's no difference, because there most certainly is.

Think of me as a drill sergeant, trying to quickly and efficiently convert noobs to the forum to our ways or drive them off before they can annoy us.

Revaninja
03-28-2007, 08:14 AM
They make mention with ALL games and I know for a fact your much loved FFX-2 I know it got poor reviews as well so Kettle situation.

Now you are right about my making it out as fact I really didn't mean to do that I was stating an opnion is all and came out wrong.

Also what determines a good game is it the Player or is it sales? One is subjective to each persons own views while the other shows what the masses like and buy. True the Masses could be not worth much but every single time? Then what would be the point in life then? There are people who leave large marks on histories pages by themselves but most people are only seen through the Masses and figured in as such. Will you Prak be rememebered only by that which you denounce all the time the Masses? How do you feel knowing that all your opnions thought and feelings on everything will be lost in the crowded feet of the Masses?

You have time to answer me I have a Blood work and Pre-op to go to today so I will be a while have fun with your answer and please answer it and not dismiss it as a Philosopher I am truly curious in your response.

Hynad
03-28-2007, 08:15 AM
Okay...

But you should know that almost every games out there has its share of qualities in them. Of course there are some games that it is hard to find any in them, but I haven't played one during the last decade.

In fact, I don't remember having played any masterpiece since Super Mario Bros on the original Famicom. But even so, I still find a lot of qualities in today's games even if they fail to be perfect.

One last thing, sometime it is possible that something might be viewed as a quality by one and a flaw by someone else. Like the battle system in FFXII. Some think it is flawlessly incorporated to the game and speed up the battle sequences, while some think it is garbage that only makes you wander in the field without even interacting with your game controller...

Prak
03-28-2007, 08:35 AM
They make mention with ALL games and I know for a fact your much loved FFX-2 I know it got poor reviews as well so Kettle situation.

I would call this rather positive. ([Only registered and activated users can see links])


Now you are right about my making it out as fact I really didn't mean to do that I was stating an opnion is all and came out wrong.

Great. That more or less erases my issue with the post. Pretty easy do do, wouldn't you say?


Also what determines a good game is it the Player or is it sales?

The answer is neither. Quality is determined by purely intrinsic values. Take the games Psychonauts and Beyond Good & Evil, for example. Neither of them sold particularly well and some people who played them disliked them because they were outside the norm, but they're still excellent titles.


One is subjective to each persons own views while the other shows what the masses like and buy. True the Masses could be not worth much but every single time? Then what would be the point in life then? There are people who leave large marks on histories pages by themselves but most people are only seen through the Masses and figured in as such. Will you Prak be rememebered only by that which you denounce all the time the Masses? How do you feel knowing that all your opnions thought and feelings on everything will be lost in the crowded feet of the Masses?

There are different ways to make a mark. Mine is to proliferate my ideas among others and allow them to take on a life of their own. I don't care if my name is remembered for what I do. At that point, I won't exactly care anymore. No, I do what I do to make the world a bit more tolerable to me in the present, not for future generations.

Make what you will of that, but remember that the greatest men the world has ever known have usually effected changes that they've been able to enjoy.



One last thing, sometime it is possible that something might be viewed as a quality by one and a flaw by someone else. Like the battle system in FFXII. Some think it is flawlessly incorporated to the game and speed up the battle sequences, while some think it is garbage that only makes you wander in the field without even interacting with your game controller...

Quite simply, one or both of them are wrong. Two conflicting views can never both be correct. The best they can possibly be is equally incorrect. Otherwise, one will be more correct than the other, and therefore be the superior view. Of course, the wise view is the one that encompasses them both and sees the underlying truth(s) behind them.

Hynad
03-28-2007, 08:48 AM
Yeah, that truth being that nothing the human creates is perfect.:-\

But when it comes to discussing the flaws and qualities of a game, I don't think there is much to get other than an opinion. It's not as if we were discussing the fundamental properties of the atom.

Sandal Hat
03-28-2007, 08:49 AM
Why does anyone care about FFXIII in the first place? It looks like utter shit. =/

Theres a lot of nostalgia behind it for me. That's also why I continue to play Mario, even though sunshine left much to be desired.

Prak
03-28-2007, 08:49 AM
That's a universal cop-out. I ignore people when they say that.

Sandal Hat
03-28-2007, 08:57 AM
And yet it's the truth. Funny how that works.

Prak
03-28-2007, 08:58 AM
For the record, I was replying to Hynad.

Hynad
03-28-2007, 08:58 AM
Yeah I agree, but that's basically the same attitude I take when a person pretend to hold the truth, or at least try to make us believe he hold it.

There is not much great truth to be learned from a game. You either like what you get, or don't. There's a gray line in between when the game is great but flawed, and that's just about it. Everything else is not written in the sky. If I want some immutable truth, I'll keep on questioning myself about the foundation of the universe, not about something that was created to entertain me.

Prak
03-28-2007, 09:01 AM
True wisdom is found in the most unlikely of places, grasshopper.

Hynad
03-28-2007, 09:04 AM
who talks about wisdom? you were talking about truth, not wisdom. You shall know the difference between the 2.

Here's a well known quote about wisdom:


"God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, courage to change the things I can, and wisdom to know the difference."

Prak
03-28-2007, 09:05 AM
Are you actually arguing against my inane joke? Holy crap, dude...

Hynad
03-28-2007, 09:10 AM
oh, sorry, I didn't mean to argue. I was just trying to make the wisdom and truth conversation go forward.

That's actually a topic I quite like.