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Alucard Collins
01-16-2007, 09:14 PM
Alright, here in lie my thoughts about Final Fantasy. Make note that it is just one man's opinion and you are free to agree or disagree with them all you wish. :)

Does anyone else feel like after Final Fantasy 7 the series simply became INCREDIBLY overrated? Final Fantasy 7 was REVOLUTIONARY and really changed gaming as a whole making them more cinematic in nature (I also enjoyed many of the classic Final Fantasy games back on the Famicom and Super Famicom).

However, it seems to me that since that time, Final Fantasy has just become another overrated game franchise. Final Fantasy 8, while a good game, used the same formula but managed to pull out (what I thought was) an interesting story (even though they just seemed to sort of THROW the final boss battle at you out of no where). Final Fantasy 9 was simply a bad joke... unlikable characters and a story I could have cared less about.

Moving to the PS2, we got Final Fantasy 10. Without a doubt, the graphics were improved but from a personal viewpoint, I HATED Tidus to the point of not even wanting to finish the game. In fact, the only really likeable character in the whole game seemed to be Orin (sp?) and Yuna.

I really believe Square was trying to again revolutionize the gaming industry with Final Fantasy 11... But the problem was that no one wanted to see/play another MMO, even if it was on a console. They wanted a good Final Fantasy.

Now we've got Final Fantasy 12, the final installment of the series on PS2. Again, the same problem (for me at least) as Final Fantasy 10... Van is this bitchy whiney character that makes me shake my head in utter annoyance. I had such high hopes for this game... I really did... but I am very disappointed thus far. The battle-system seems to have some good and some bad in it... it's sort of like they want to embrace the MMO-type system into the game. The problem with this seems to be that the PS2 just isn't powerful enough to handle some of the summoning and it comes off as looking sort of cheesy rather than having the cool cinematic style summoning.

In the end, all I can say is that the Final Fantasy franchise has really fallen in my eyes. I grew up on these games and I'd love to see them returned to prominence. Perhaps Final Fantasy 13 on the PS3 will shad new light into the series. I guess regardless of whether I like it or not, it will sell. But in the end, I currently have one word for the current generation of Final Fantasy titles: OVERRATED!

solis
01-16-2007, 09:30 PM
Does anyone else feel like after Final Fantasy 7 the series simply became INCREDIBLY overrated? Final Fantasy 7 was REVOLUTIONARY and really changed gaming as a whole making them more cinematic in nature (I also enjoyed many of the classic Final Fantasy games back on the Famicom and Super Famicom).


Indeed, i agree. FF8 wasn't as good as FF7 so it was a let down to people because of the fact that they thought FF8 would be even BETTER than FF7. It wasn't however. And FF9 just sucked al together, the ending was horrible. They don't match up to FF6, FF7/FF6 still stand as the best in the series. Hard to pick which one though.


However, it seems to me that since that time, Final Fantasy has just become another overrated game franchise. Final Fantasy 8, while a good game, used the same formula but managed to pull out (what I thought was) an interesting story (even though they just seemed to sort of THROW the final boss battle at you out of no where). Final Fantasy 9 was simply a bad joke... unlikable characters and a story I could have cared less about.


True it is an over rated company as far as the FF games go. The only character i remember in FF9 was that one clown dude. Can't even remember his name. But yes, the formula was too much the same.



Moving to the PS2, we got Final Fantasy 10. Without a doubt, the graphics were improved but from a personal viewpoint, I HATED Tidus to the point of not even wanting to finish the game. In fact, the only really likeable character in the whole game seemed to be Orin (sp?) and Yuna.

Tidus was kinda a bad design. More so looked like a happy go lucky punk. Not cool. Kinda how sora looks in the Kingdom hearts games now. FFX wasn't a bad game though, in fact it was much better than FF8 and FF9.



I really believe Square was trying to again revolutionize the gaming industry with Final Fantasy 11... But the problem was that no one wanted to see/play another MMO, even if it was on a console. They wanted a good Final Fantasy.

The online FF game really did turn me off with the games. I don't sit down and play a video game just to hear some little kid say "Eat my shit asshole" and "Lets cyber" every 15 seconds for no reason. That's failage of the likes which runescape comes from. Just not as bad.

I haven't played FF12 so i won't say anything about it yet.


In the end, all I can say is that the Final Fantasy franchise has really fallen in my eyes. I grew up on these games and I'd love to see them returned to prominence. Perhaps Final Fantasy 13 on the PS3 will shad new light into the series. I guess regardless of whether I like it or not, it will sell. But in the end, I currently have one word for the current generation of Final Fantasy titles: OVERRATED!

When i played FFX2 i couldn't believe what i was seeing. It didn't feel like an FF game at all to me, so i see where you're coming from with this.

While FF7 has people milking it from every corner, it's getting annoying to me. Advent children sucked because it's nothing more than a long chase through out the whole movie with little story line. I was fealing like it was a far cry i got from playing FF7. I'm just sick of seeing spin offs and Cloud & Sephiroth showing up in games all over the place. I stopped caring about FF7 when i beat FF7.

So over rated, yes. That's why they are remaking their older games, because they know they will be doomed if they have little time to think of a new story line from a reservoir that's already close to empty. I think Square-Enix needs to take a few years off and think of something new. It won't kill em.

Agent0042
01-16-2007, 10:02 PM
Oh man. You know, what? I am just going to grab a canister of popcorn and watch and as this thread gets absolutely destroyed. Prakkkkk!!!


P.S.:


And FF9 just sucked al together, the ending was horrible.
You are officially a moron and should remove yourself from the Shrine immediately.

solis
01-17-2007, 06:30 AM
You are officially a moron

This coming from the person who seems to possess the vast knowledge of worthlessness of a game series.

hb smokey
01-17-2007, 06:44 AM
Final Fantasy 7 was REVOLUTIONARY and really changed gaming as a whole making them more cinematic in nature
I quit reading your post after this.

solis
01-17-2007, 07:09 AM
Indeed. FF7 wasn't anything Revolutionary. To me it was pretty much FF6 with Better graphics & music with less Mog.

Alvinz
01-17-2007, 07:15 AM
Don't you guys know that the only reason we endure Final Fantasy is for the piano collections that come out afterwards!!!

And the cool looking FMVs...

But mainly for the piano collections...

And chocobos. Moogles are cute too. I like cute things. Chibi Chocobos > moogles > normal chocobos.

And no... Final Fantasy XI wasn't suppose to revolutionize anything. They just wanted to cash in on the ever growing online gaming world. FREE MMORPGS > all the others.

Anyway why are you so pessimistic. Are you a sadist? I am... I laugh when people get hurt. It's funny... I mean not like people blowing up and legs flying everywhere... just when my friends trips over. Why don't you try and see the good points in Final Fantasy. If you think about it, all the good things in Final Fantasy (like piano collections) easily overcome any of the lesser points (like only limiting the piano collections to thirteen or fourteen songs... or not releasing the sheet music in Australia... faggots.. fuck you S-E.... ummm)

So just remember even if you don't like Final Fantasy, at least they can be bothered releasing a piano collections to entertain the people like me who need something good to play on the piano.

Fukn sadists....

solis
01-17-2007, 07:23 AM
FREE MMORPGS > all the others.


Please tell me you don't have Runescape in there with Free RPGs being better than payed..

i really don't think the poster means to say so much that the games suck, but more so they don't seem to be worth the attention it gets. Yes, the FF series is over rated, but that in no way makes it a bad one. I just think he means to point out the flaws of why it's over rated, not just bash it.

Pimp Daddy McSnake
01-17-2007, 07:25 AM
Final Fantasy 7 was <s>REVOLUTIONARY</s> 20 hours of fun

Prak
01-17-2007, 08:16 AM
Agent demanded it, and what Agent wants, Agent gets.


Alright, here in lie my thoughts about Final Fantasy. Make note that it is just one man's opinion and you are free to agree or disagree with them all you wish. :)

I choose the third option. Ream the hell out of you for it.


Does anyone else feel like after Final Fantasy 7 the series simply became INCREDIBLY overrated? Final Fantasy 7 was REVOLUTIONARY and really changed gaming as a whole making them more cinematic in nature (I also enjoyed many of the classic Final Fantasy games back on the Famicom and Super Famicom).

Big fail here. For one thing, you obviously know nothing at all of what was going on in the gaming industry at the time. Final Fantasy VII did absolutely nothing that other games hadn't done months before it. It revolutionized nothing. The only changes it caused in the gaming industry were negative ones, such as the extortive practice of burying secrets so deeply in a game that you can't possibly make the most of it without buying a guide also.

Only an ignorant fanboy who never even bothered to learn the truth of such matters, or perhaps never even cared that their bullshit wasn't true in the first place, can possibly make claims like yours.


However, it seems to me that since that time, Final Fantasy has just become another overrated game franchise. Final Fantasy 8, while a good game, used the same formula but managed to pull out (what I thought was) an interesting story (even though they just seemed to sort of THROW the final boss battle at you out of no where). Final Fantasy 9 was simply a bad joke... unlikable characters and a story I could have cared less about.

The overrating started with FF7, which, as you may not have noticed, basically used the same "formula," as you put it, as its immediate predecessor. In fact, most of the game's story elements were copied directly from FF6. FF8 was pretty bad all the way around. How it has any kind of following is beyond me.

Now here's where you really fail in this paragraph: the FFIX comment. You didn't like the characters or the story, so it's automatically bad? I liked the characters and the story, so I guess that completely negates your view on it, doesn't it? Not in any reasonable reality, it wouldn't, but I get the feeling that you don't inhabit such a world. FFIX was easily one of the highlights of the series and definitely the best of the PSX era, especially in terms of gameplay and characterization. Perhaps you didn't like the characters because they actually had personalities, unlike the archetypal avatars in your beloved FFVII.


Moving to the PS2, we got Final Fantasy 10. Without a doubt, the graphics were improved but from a personal viewpoint, I HATED Tidus to the point of not even wanting to finish the game. In fact, the only really likeable character in the whole game seemed to be Orin (sp?) and Yuna.

Oh boo hoo. Guess what. I liked Tidus. You know why? He was a well-developed and multi-faceted character. What you find likable is not going to be the same as what other people find likable and it does not detract from the game's overall quality in any way if a character just happens to rub you the wrong way.


I really believe Square was trying to again revolutionize the gaming industry with Final Fantasy 11... But the problem was that no one wanted to see/play another MMO, even if it was on a console. They wanted a good Final Fantasy.

Are you completely unaware of the fact that the game still has quite a lot of subscribers and continues to make money? Only a fool would argue that there's anything revolutionary about the game, but it's still competently made.


Now we've got Final Fantasy 12, the final installment of the series on PS2. Again, the same problem (for me at least) as Final Fantasy 10... Van is this bitchy whiney character that makes me shake my head in utter annoyance. I had such high hopes for this game... I really did... but I am very disappointed thus far. The battle-system seems to have some good and some bad in it... it's sort of like they want to embrace the MMO-type system into the game. The problem with this seems to be that the PS2 just isn't powerful enough to handle some of the summoning and it comes off as looking sort of cheesy rather than having the cool cinematic style summoning.

My views on that game have been very clearly documented in another thread, but I'll agree that is is horribly overrated, although you seem to dislike it for all the wrong reasons, as I would expect from someone who has thus far displayed a disturbing lack of intelligence.


In the end, all I can say is that the Final Fantasy franchise has really fallen in my eyes. I grew up on these games and I'd love to see them returned to prominence. Perhaps Final Fantasy 13 on the PS3 will shad new light into the series. I guess regardless of whether I like it or not, it will sell. But in the end, I currently have one word for the current generation of Final Fantasy titles: OVERRATED!

Here's a little news flash for you. Everything that's tremendously popular is overrated. It's a fact of life. The Final Fantasy series is very hit and miss. It always has been. Just look at the games in sequence and you can see that there's no universal standard of quality.

Or if you want this entire thing summed up in a few words:

Shut the fuck up. You have no idea what you're talking about, so you're only looking like a fool.

ROKI
01-17-2007, 11:57 AM
Prak comes to the rescue!

Alvinz
01-17-2007, 05:55 PM
I agree Prak, Tidus is likeable. Even if like 90% of english speakers said his name wrong, and when they heard it properly the first time they were like... oh well that sounds stupid. Can you believe they managed to have a whole script that didn't say Tidus not even once! And he's suppose to be one of the main characters....

FFX isn't overrated, and here's why. It's getting back to the basics of the rpg... the soul and core of rpgs... the story. The story was awesome, whether you liked love stories or not, because not only was it easy to understand (lol at ffvii), but the characters were so deep and so different, yet interacted and blended together in the character so perfectly. They all seemed to just fit!

Plus no matter how you look at it, the whole game is built upon a strong storyline. It was well crafted, well rounded and had a touching ending (storywise, not because of the graphics and shit). If FFX story was released in book form, and not a game, I'm pretty confident It could make it up with the big boys, like Harry Potter and some other book that's going well.

z.zetsumei
01-18-2007, 12:40 AM
Agent demanded it, and what Agent wants, Agent gets.



I choose the third option. Ream the hell out of you for it.



Big fail here. For one thing, you obviously know nothing at all of what was going on in the gaming industry at the time. Final Fantasy VII did absolutely nothing that other games hadn't done months before it. It revolutionized nothing. The only changes it caused in the gaming industry were negative ones, such as the extortive practice of burying secrets so deeply in a game that you can't possibly make the most of it without buying a guide also.

Only an ignorant fanboy who never even bothered to learn the truth of such matters, or perhaps never even cared that their bullshit wasn't true in the first place, can possibly make claims like yours.



The overrating started with FF7, which, as you may not have noticed, basically used the same "formula," as you put it, as its immediate predecessor. In fact, most of the game's story elements were copied directly from FF6. FF8 was pretty bad all the way around. How it has any kind of following is beyond me.

Now here's where you really fail in this paragraph: the FFIX comment. You didn't like the characters or the story, so it's automatically bad? I liked the characters and the story, so I guess that completely negates your view on it, doesn't it? Not in any reasonable reality, it wouldn't, but I get the feeling that you don't inhabit such a world. FFIX was easily one of the highlights of the series and definitely the best of the PSX era, especially in terms of gameplay and characterization. Perhaps you didn't like the characters because they actually had personalities, unlike the archetypal avatars in your beloved FFVII.



Oh boo hoo. Guess what. I liked Tidus. You know why? He was a well-developed and multi-faceted character. What you find likable is not going to be the same as what other people find likable and it does not detract from the game's overall quality in any way if a character just happens to rub you the wrong way.



Are you completely unaware of the fact that the game still has quite a lot of subscribers and continues to make money? Only a fool would argue that there's anything revolutionary about the game, but it's still competently made.



My views on that game have been very clearly documented in another thread, but I'll agree that is is horribly overrated, although you seem to dislike it for all the wrong reasons, as I would expect from someone who has thus far displayed a disturbing lack of intelligence.



Here's a little news flash for you. Everything that's tremendously popular is overrated. It's a fact of life. The Final Fantasy series is very hit and miss. It always has been. Just look at the games in sequence and you can see that there's no universal standard of quality.

Or if you want this entire thing summed up in a few words:

Shut the fuck up. You have no idea what you're talking about, so you're only looking like a fool.


I think this post should be dubbed "Little Boy"...best bomb I've seen here to date.

NorseFTX
01-18-2007, 12:48 AM
I personally didn't really like Tidus....
He was well-developed, deep, and multifaceted...but somehow, I didn't really like him either. Like real people! There are some people that are very deep, too, that I still don't really take a liking to....
So I suppose it could be a good thing that I don't like him in the way I do.

But about FFIX....
Please...! Give it another chance....
...The way they look is a bit distracting at first, but after a while, the distraction will go away if you let it.
And if you feel embarrassed about playing the game...don't! If anyone laughs at you, I'll kick their asses.

And when you say that "Final Fantasy has become overrated since FF7", I suppose that's reasonable....
People give critiques and talk about how they feel about how others feel about games all the time....
It's nice to hear that once in a while, too....to hear what others think of what I think.

But there's been so much of that now! I think we need to move on from that...or return to the heart of things....
We should go back to talking about what the game says, rather than what the people say about the game.

EDIT:
(Sorry...but I just noticed this--about FF7 being not revolutionary and all...)
FF7 was revolutionary!
There may have been other games before that also had similar things....but some dissent, small uprisings, and skirmishes don't make a revolution. It's when it's brought to the attention of the masses that a revolution has occurred.

Hex Omega
01-18-2007, 01:46 AM
I personally didn't really like Tidus....
He was well-developed, deep, and multifaceted...but somehow, I didn't really like him either. Like real people! There are some people that are very deep, too, that I still don't really take a liking to....

You don't like him because he IS deep? That is pretty retarded, but to each his own I suppose.





And when you say that "Final Fantasy has become overrated since FF7", I suppose that's reasonable....

Not really. FFIX, FFX and FFX-2 were all soldi additions to the FF series. If anything, FFX-2 is UNDER-RATED



(Sorry...but I just noticed this--about FF7 being not revolutionary and all...)
FF7 was revolutionary!

Did you actually READ Prak's post?



There may have been other games before that also had similar things....but some dissent, small uprisings, and skirmishes don't make a revolution. It's when it's brought to the attention of the masses that a revolution has occurred.

Irrelevant. It doesn't matter that FF7 is mainstream, fact is, its not revolutionary at all. The marketing was though. No game was advertised and marketed more then FF7 at the time.

Chrissss
01-18-2007, 01:48 AM
What got me the most in this thread, THE MOST, was when solis compared FF7 to FF6. I like 7 but come on. No contest. 7 really did kind of suck. I never even played through 6 and appreciated it a whole lot more.

Wattson
01-18-2007, 02:15 AM
One thing I find really LOL about people who think FFVII is revolutionary is when they say Aeris dieing was some new plot twist that hadn't been seen before, when the same exact thing happened in FFII, III, IV, V, and VI.

ROKI
01-18-2007, 02:19 AM
EDIT:
(Sorry...but I just noticed this--about FF7 being not revolutionary and all...)
FF7 was revolutionary!
There may have been other games before that also had similar things....but some dissent, small uprisings, and skirmishes don't make a revolution. It's when it's brought to the attention of the masses that a revolution has occurred.

No not really. I agree that ff7 was considered a great game and a must have back then, that it was a big suprise for the funs of FF (first time to have 3D and FMVs) etc. But it was not revolutionary.
Let me give you an example. Look at PS3 and Wii. Wii is a real revolution. It changes completely the way videogames are being played,creates a path for new and original ideas.


FF7 can be considered revolutionary for the Final Fantasy series but not for gaming in general. For FF it was a huge step to have FMVs and 3D characters etc but in gaming it had already be done. Just like FFX. It was a big step for FF the characters to have voice covers but in gaming it had already be done from the ps1 (Silent Hill, Spyro series are just small examples).

So I think that we can all agree that FF7 was revolutionary for the series, but not for gaming.

solis
01-18-2007, 06:46 AM
I personally didn't really like Tidus....
He was well-developed, deep, and multifaceted...but somehow, I didn't really like him either. Like real people!

I stopped reading after this.

Agent0042
01-18-2007, 10:49 AM
One thing I find really LOL about people who think FFVII is revolutionary is when they say Aeris dieing was some new plot twist that hadn't been seen before, when the same exact thing happened in FFII, III, IV, V, and VI.
Sing it.

jewess crabcake
01-18-2007, 11:07 AM
Ok Stop this is boardering on molestation, handing his ass to him after you've GB'd it is inhumane a pox on all your houses.


I'm debating on whether to enter this or not.

NorseFTX
01-18-2007, 02:16 PM
You don't like him because he IS deep? That is pretty retarded, but to each his own I suppose.


I wasn't saying that--! I think I must have phrased it wrong....
I was more saying that he felt like a real person to me...
And there are real people that I don't get along with.
I still liked FFX, too. I'm not dumb enough to let my own dislike of some personality traits of the main character get in the way of my enjoyment of the rest of the game.

XP And it's "to each her own".



Not really. FFIX, FFX and FFX-2 were all soldi additions to the FF series. If anything, FFX-2 is UNDER-RATED

It's never unreasonable to say something is "overrated" when "overrated" means that the general population praises the game more than you personally would. It means that you don't agree with the majority...
And that's not an unreasonable thing...>>
Though...it sometimes is really annoying when people make it a point to let everyone know that....



Did you actually READ Prak's post?
I believe I did...<<


Irrelevant. It doesn't matter that FF7 is mainstream, fact is, its not revolutionary at all. The marketing was though. No game was advertised and marketed more then FF7 at the time.

That's what I meant!
FF7 was revolutionary because of the marketing...the marketing allowed it to reach the masses--many people who haven't entered the RPG genre before decided to at this point.
You might say that people think it's revolutionary because of their lack of knowledge of other RPGs before FF7...
But that's exactly why FF7 was revolutionary...! It was because of peoples' general lack of knowledge that FF7 was the first for many, and that's why it made such an impact for many people.
But whether that's something to criticize is something else.



Ok Stop this is boardering on molestation, handing his ass to him after you've GB'd it is inhumane a pox on all your houses.


I'm debating on whether to enter this or not.

<< Don't worry about that--
I don't think the Topic Creator's really here anymore.

I'm just the "stand-in" bash target that says things but ends up being misinterpreted because of the...ah..."stupidity" established by the topic creator. <<
>>
<<
If you see this, TC, please pardon my rudeness.

Mailbox
01-18-2007, 02:27 PM
FF7 was revolutionary because of the marketing...the marketing allowed it to reach the masses--many people who haven't entered the RPG genre before decided to at this point.
You might say that people think it's revolutionary because of their lack of knowledge of other RPGs before FF7...
But that's exactly why FF7 was revolutionary! It was because of peoples' general lack of knowledge, that FF7 was the first for many, and that's why it made such an impact for many people.
Whether that's something to criticize is something else, though...
Marketing or the number of people who've played it first doesn't make something revolutionary.

You fucking putts.

solis
01-18-2007, 02:41 PM
NorseFTX

I stopped reading after i saw this.

Prak
01-18-2007, 02:47 PM
It's never unreasonable to say something is "overrated" when "overrated" means that the general population praises the game more than you personally would. It means that you don't agree with the majority...

That is not true. "Overrated" refers to something being more greatly praised than it deserves, not than you think it deserves. The notion you are suggesting is nothing more than the unjustifiably egocentric viewpoint of a person who thinks the only importance in the world is contained behind his/her own nose.


That's what I meant!
FF7 was revolutionary because of the marketing...the marketing allowed it to reach the masses--many people who haven't entered the RPG genre before decided to at this point.
You might say that people think it's revolutionary because of their lack of knowledge of other RPGs before FF7...
But that's exactly why FF7 was revolutionary...! It was because of peoples' general lack of knowledge that FF7 was the first for many, and that's why it made such an impact for many people.
But whether that's something to criticize is something else.

You clearly have no clue of what the term "revolutionary" actually means. I fail to understand how you can so vehemently hold to a position based on your own ignorance and pig-headedness, but I'll set you straight.

Revolutionary is a term that only applies to things that bring about change. You say the game was revolutionary for its marketing? How many other games are advertised so heavily? The answer is almost none. In other words, nothing has truly changed, so the term cannot be applied there.

However, I must confess that FFVII truly was revolutionary in one aspect, although it was a truly terrible one. As far as I can trace it, the practice of making strategy guides mandatory if you want to find a game's secrets originated there. In other words, the revolutionary aspect of FFVII is the way it introduced a practice of near-extortion to the industry that continues to proliferate today.

solis
01-18-2007, 03:02 PM
This guy ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) pretty much hit FF7 on the head.

z.zetsumei
01-18-2007, 05:51 PM
This guy ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) pretty much hit FF7 on the head.

I bookmarked that for future use when I slam noobs upon my return to school on Monday. Entertaining to read on any level.

Andyuk
01-18-2007, 08:12 PM
I enjoyed ff7 because it was new to me, i had not played any of the earlier ff games.

I enjoyed ff8 although it was a little dissapointing and i have never actually beaten the last boss (at that last castle i gave up on it)

I really enjoyed ff9, it seemed to be third time lucky where everything was spot on, it didn't wow the world but it is a solid game and probably the most likely one for me to play through again one day

I enjoyed ff10, but moreso on the 2nd playthrough, the 1st time i knew nothing about the game at all and i was expecting more of what ff9 was with better graphics (not a sequel but stylewise)

i played ff11 for the 30 day trial and couldn't be bothered levelling up just to get some interation with people. (well actually everyone i met were really nice but i wanted some teamplay action and gave up before it got that far.)

i'm loving ff12 at the moment, it's a little dissapointing. I can't really pinpoint the reason but it seems to me there is something lacking there, maybe the plot isn't as epic as some other games or the characters haven't really interacted much.

But all in all i enjoyed them all (and ive played 4 5 and beat 6 i love 6)

Do i have a point? maybe. It's more important to have fun rather than discuss how much the game meant to the world because bad games can also be fun games.

ZSPACE
01-18-2007, 08:45 PM
personally, i liked all the finaly fantasy games; especially final fantasy X/X-2. When Yuna and the gang abandoned their faith it was inspiring and changed them into 4-dimensional characters. it sort of revolutionized my thoughts and completely changed me ( not being held by belief and others) that story and moment is somtheing i have never seen/heard in a video game and what plenty of anime strive for.

ZSPACE
01-18-2007, 08:47 PM
the last boss on ff8 took me forever to beat! 8 hours straight!

solis
01-18-2007, 09:06 PM
personally, i liked all the finaly fantasy games; especially final fantasy X/X-2. When Yuna and the gang abandoned their faith it was inspiring and changed them into 4-dimensional characters. it sort of revolutionized my thoughts and completely changed me ( not being held by belief and others) that story and moment is somtheing i have never seen/heard in a video game and what plenty of anime strive for.

......Wow...I don't even need to make fun of this one.

Just out of fun, for some reason this was the first thing my eye saw when i set my vision on your post.


personally, i liked all the finaly fantasy games; especially final fantasy X/X-2. When Yuna and the gang abangdoned their faith it was inspiring and changed them into 4-dimensional characters. it sort of revolutionized my thoughts and completely changed me ( not being held by belief and others) that story and moment is somtheing i have never seen/heard in a video game and what plenty of anime strive for.

NorseFTX
01-18-2007, 09:14 PM
I stopped reading after i saw this.

Well, PARDON me.
...hmf.


That is not true. "Overrated" refers to something being more greatly praised than it deserves, not than you think it deserves. The notion you are suggesting is nothing more than the unjustifiably egocentric viewpoint of a person who thinks the only importance in the world is contained behind his/her own nose.

It's debatable whether the world's nature, as we see it, would ever exist if there were no conscious being observing it.
This is implied by the mechanics of quantum physics--the nature of certain things become defined the moment they are observed.

So then...
The only importance in the world is contained behind each and every person's nose.
That's what I believe.
I don't believe that the only importance in the world is my own--I believe that perspective of every aware being is what is important to consider in this world.



You clearly have no clue of what the term "revolutionary" actually means. I fail to understand how you can so vehemently hold to a position based on your own ignorance and pig-headedness, but I'll set you straight.

Revolutionary is a term that only applies to things that bring about change. You say the game was revolutionary for its marketing? How many other games are advertised so heavily? The answer is almost none. In other words, nothing has truly changed, so the term cannot be applied there.

However, I must confess that FFVII truly was revolutionary in one aspect, although it was a truly terrible one. As far as I can trace it, the practice of making strategy guides mandatory if you want to find a game's secrets originated there. In other words, the revolutionary aspect of FFVII is the way it introduced a practice of near-extortion to the industry that continues to proliferate today.

It's not that the gaming industry has been revolutionized....
It's that the gaming population has been revolutionized.

HMMF. I thought I was being clear enough! I'm quite sure I know what you mean when you say FFVII wasn't really revolutionary--since in many ways, that is true.
But in other ways, it really was revolutionary.

Hex Omega
01-18-2007, 09:21 PM
Why do all your posts have to be so long-winded?

Seriously, you need to learn to be more to the point, some of your posts, its almost impossible to determine what you're saying.


But in other ways, it really was revolutionary.

No it wasn't.

NorseFTX
01-18-2007, 09:25 PM
<<
I'll say it again then.

FFVII did not revolutionize the gaming industry;
It revolutionized the gaming population.

Excuse my long-windedness--I just don't like saying something without an adequate explanation, since that comes off as if I didn't try to put any effort in my post to you.
And...that would be rude.....
<< And that way, people wouldn't have to waste a post by saying "could you explain that?"


This guy ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) pretty much hit FF7 on the head.
....
XD! I thought that was pretty funny. =]

Xeta
01-18-2007, 09:38 PM
God, I hate seeing certain people trying to present their opinions, then others trying to somehow DISPROVE or ATTACK those opinions.

It's kind of like watching people trying to find and kill a witch...it's depressing. It's just not practical, and it defeats the point of a forum where people can COME TOGETHER and SHARE INFORMATION AND OPINIONS.

God, if you want to destroy someone, why can't you do it via email or PM?

NorseFTX
01-18-2007, 09:44 PM
>>!!!
Are you implying I'm getting "destroyed"?

Hm.
I'm alright! I'm still fine--
But thank you. Saying those things do help....

But I can handle this!
Plus, though some of the things they say are unreasonably personal...putting all the insults aside, the points they've made are interesting to discuss. =]

Xeta
01-18-2007, 09:54 PM
Yeah, but it's kind of rude of them to throw all that extra irritating stuff in so that I have to wade through all it to *possibly* find a few valid points. :(

NorseFTX
01-18-2007, 09:59 PM
XP Yeah...
But I'm sure that...they have a reason to add in the insults.

Hm. But I can't say the reason myself, since I don't know....
I'll let them clarify it...

Tell me! Just give me the reasons you say those insults, so I'd understand better.
I mean...it's nice that you're willing to give your opinion on me and talk about me and everything...<< But the topic is about Final Fantasy, rather than me...and I'd rather stay on topic....

Xeta
01-18-2007, 10:02 PM
Hmm...maybe they think you're more important than any of the Final Fantasy games, or even Square Enix itself? :-P

NorseFTX
01-18-2007, 10:08 PM
XD Lol!!

We're over here talking behind their backs when they're not looking...XD
Maybe we should give them a chance to respond....

=]
I hope they're not too angry....XD

Xeta
01-18-2007, 10:17 PM
Why should they be? They should be HAPPY that they're being considered such caring people.... :)

Alvinz
01-19-2007, 03:17 AM
You guys missed the point. FFX managed a WHOLE SCRIPT without saying the main character's (Tidus) name once!

Mr Jack
01-19-2007, 06:11 AM
I think this post should be dubbed "Little Boy"...best bomb I've seen here to date.

Wow - suck a bit harder, i think you missed an anal pube!!

solis
01-19-2007, 07:55 AM
NorseFTX, Xeta. Shut the fuck up, or get the fuck out if you don't like it.

K? Thanks.

ROKI
01-19-2007, 08:13 AM
<<
I'll say it again then.

FFVII did not revolutionize the gaming industry;
It revolutionized the gaming population.



I pretty much get you point but can you support that point with facts? Meybe it did not get a massive amount of new gamers in the gaming industry. Meybe it just made many gamers play the final fantasy games more.

Alvinz
01-19-2007, 09:37 AM
Though just because it didn't revolutionize anything, it sure gave the RPG a great boost!

Agent0042
01-19-2007, 10:59 AM
You guys missed the point. FFX managed a WHOLE SCRIPT without saying the main character's (Tidus) name once!
Yep. Because the game allowed you to rename him. And so in Final Fantasy X-2, the characters saying stuff like "Is it you? Or does it just look you?" or "I'ts him, isn't it?" Some people found it annoying. Personally, I found it oddly charming.

ROKI
01-19-2007, 11:15 AM
Though just because it didn't revolutionize anything, it sure gave the RPG a great boost!

QFT

NorseFTX
01-19-2007, 11:22 AM
Yeah--many games nowadays are coming out with Voice-Acting, but still want to give the player the option to name the main character, and as a result, the main characters' name pronounciation is endlessly debated until something official comes out....

When people happen to avoid the main characters' name in all their conversations, it's sometimes funny...XD


I pretty much get you point but can you support that point with facts? Meybe it did not get a massive amount of new gamers in the gaming industry. Meybe it just made many gamers play the final fantasy games more.

I think...the number of fanboys that you guys have come across is a pretty strong indicator that it has had a large impact on the gaming population...><

But to prove that FF7 specifically introduced a significant amount of people into gaming (rather than just into the Final Fantasy series) is difficult....
The only way could be by survey, and even with that, survey results could be skewed or inaccurate based on sampling protocol....

That was a good question! I'll see what I can do....


NorseFTX, Xeta. Shut the fuck up, or get the fuck out if you don't like it.

K? Thanks.
<< ! Did you read what we posted?
The people here are great people! That's why we're staying...=]

solis
01-19-2007, 12:02 PM
<< ! Did you read what we posted?
The people here are great people! That's why we're staying...=]

Yeah, but for some reason i think i saw things different from how you did..


U PPL R SUCH A HOLES!


Dunt woorie! I can takz cair of meself. I can handle it!


CAN U HANDLE IT?!


YA I CAN HANDLE IT!


O K HEER I COME!


OH XETA!

So how long are you two going to fuck in a corner while everyone makes fun of you? Neither of you prove anything, and you don't put up good enough facts to back up your words. So i reiterate.

Get the fuck out.

NorseFTX
01-19-2007, 01:18 PM
No wonder...I think you saw things wrong.
(That was kind of funny, though >>)

I'm going to stay here and discuss Final Fantasy, since that's what this topic is about. <<
If my facts were inadequate...you should have just told me in the first place! Then I'd be able to go find something you would be happy with.

I still think anything can be overrated to anyone (>< Prak's explanation wasn't really very satisfactory for me; all he said is that "I should be ignored as I am egotistical and hopelessly biased" as the reason my statement was invalid, rather than giving some proof more relevant to my statement than to me). For something to be overrated requires an opinion; for something to be "praised more than it deserves" is an opinion, since it's praised more than they, in their own experience, believe it deserves. No matter how experienced someone is, when they give an opinion, it's still an opinion (some are more "educated" opinions than others, but none can be free from bias). Unless...is there a defined 'set amount of praise' that a game deserves...? If there was, who was the judge of that?
Prak seems to say that there is a set amount, so that something being overrated can be a "fact".

I would be alright with this...but I need proof--that there is a set amount of praise that a game deserves from all people.

solis
01-19-2007, 01:26 PM
*Sigh*..Ok let me break it down for you.

WHY are we picking on you? Read the quote by Prak in my sig. It's a very good one.

NorseFTX
01-19-2007, 01:32 PM
Hmf.
Make sure you know the full extent of the opinion before you decide if it's retarded!

...but as far as I'm concerned, there's no such thing as a "retarded" opinion...there's always a reason that an opinion exists.
I challenge you to give me a "retarded" opinion, and I'll tell you why it's not retarded!
And don't try pulling a horribly dumb and random opinion on me, since then the reason would be that you're just trying to be retarded, and that's not a retarded thing since I was the one who asked you to do that in the first place.

<< I have to go to class soon, so hurry!
But if you think this challenge is "retarded", then just tell me, and we can drop it.
--No wait--no! No chickening out! At least give me one of those "retarded" opinions.

solis
01-19-2007, 01:46 PM
I challenge you to give me a "retarded" opinion

Ok.


It's debatable whether the world's nature, as we see it, would ever exist if there were no conscious being observing it.
This is implied by the mechanics of quantum physics--the nature of certain things become defined the moment they are observed.

So then...
The only importance in the world is contained behind each and every person's nose.
That's what I believe.
I don't believe that the only importance in the world is my own--I believe that perspective of every aware being is what is important to consider in this world.



It's not that the gaming industry has been revolutionized....
It's that the gaming population has been revolutionized.

HMMF. I thought I was being clear enough! I'm quite sure I know what you mean when you say FFVII wasn't really revolutionary--since in many ways, that is true.
But in other ways, it really was revolutionary.

You're right. There is no such thing as stupid opinions...Just stupid people.


--No wait--no! No chickening out!

Because the internet is serious business.

Agent0042
01-19-2007, 03:31 PM
Sorry, what exactly are we talking about again? (Not that I ever really liked this thread anyway.)

ROKI
01-19-2007, 04:15 PM
Can you just stop acting like 10 year old children and start talking about things on topic? If you want to swear at each other you can do it with private messeges.

Alvinz
01-19-2007, 04:22 PM
Sorry, what exactly are we talking about again? (Not that I ever really liked this thread anyway.)

We are talking about how FFX managed to have a whole damn script without saying Tidus once, so you don't actually know how his name is supposed to be pronounced.

NorseFTX
01-19-2007, 06:18 PM
Yeah--the first time I played through FFX, I actually didn't realize that they didn't say his name even once....
After I heard the Kingdom Hearts pronounciation ("Tee-dus"), though, I was surprised, and went back to see if I'd ever heard it pronounced the other way before ("Tie-dus").
And every time they were about to say his name, they didn't....
It was a bit funny, too...how they conveniently avoided it every single time. <<

Alucard Collins
01-19-2007, 07:36 PM
Prak, as I said in the beginning, it's my opinion, so why don't YOU go take a gun, put it to your mouth and pull the trigger, you cum-guzzling whore. You want to know why people apparently don't "stay around" this forum? It's probably because of people like you. There is a proper way to disagree with someone and the way you go about it is NOT the right way.

For your information, I was well aware of the industry at the time. Had you bothered to read the beginning of my post, you'd know that I said this was MY opinion. If you disagree, good - that's cool. We can agree to disagree and still be pals. But you don't have to act like a 14 year old jackass... oh wait, you probably are.

Okay, I feel better now. *takes a deep breath* Alright, shall we try to continue this in a civil manner?

What other game of it's kind had come out at this time besides Final Fantasy 7 that was of this caliber? The only thing I can think of (and it's not even in the same genera) was Resident Evil. Yes, there were other great RPGs to come out but none that had the sheer quality of Final Fantasy 7. This is something that has simply (in my OPINION, read it, buddy) not been matched since then. Have there been RPGs that have had better stories? Yes, without a doubt. But the overall package presented in Final Fantasy 7 is something that hasn't been re-created as successfully since. As Solis said, this is why they're re-making old games.

If you find other Final Fantasy games to be better than 7, that's awesome. But you can disagree in a manner that's not of a child.

Mailbox
01-19-2007, 09:18 PM
Prak, as I said in the beginning, it's my opinion, so why don't YOU go take a gun, put it to your mouth and pull the trigger, you cum-guzzling whore. You want to know why people apparently don't "stay around" this forum? It's probably because of people like you. There is a proper way to disagree with someone and the way you go about it is NOT the right way.

For your information, I was well aware of the industry at the time. Had you bothered to read the beginning of my post, you'd know that I said this was MY opinion. If you disagree, good - that's cool. We can agree to disagree and still be pals. But you don't have to act like a 14 year old jackass... oh wait, you probably are.
Oh for fucks sake, the shitbrick attitude isn't working for you. If you have an opinion and don't want people to critizize it, don't make a thread about it. It's not required for people to be nice when they think you're a moron.


If you find other Final Fantasy games to be better than 7, that's awesome. But you can disagree in a manner that's not of a child.
Then please, enlighten us on how we should disagree with someone that has a collective IQ of maybe, 40?

Alvinz
01-19-2007, 09:37 PM
Collective IQ? Does that mean like from all the brains you've stolen from dead bodies PLUS yours... it only equals 40?

Agent0042
01-19-2007, 09:57 PM
I think what really galls a lot of people here is the idea that the series was overrated after FFVII. If anything, most of the FFs after FFVII are better than it was. Final Fantasy IX is easily the favorite FF of a lot of the members here and by the one with the best arguments to support it.

Hex Omega
01-19-2007, 10:36 PM
Prak, as I said in the beginning, it's my opinion, so why don't YOU go take a gun, put it to your mouth and pull the trigger, you cum-guzzling whore.


But you can disagree in a manner that's not of a child.

lol.


You want to know why people apparently don't "stay around" this forum? It's probably because of people like you. There is a proper way to disagree with someone and the way you go about it is NOT the right way.

Bullshit. Prak is a major reason why one SHOULD stay around.


For your information, I was well aware of the industry at the time. Had you bothered to read the beginning of my post, you'd know that I said this was MY opinion.

Personal enjoyment =! Quality


What other game of it's kind had come out at this time besides Final Fantasy 7 that was of this caliber?

I really hope your joking. FFVI was better in every way conceivable, except graphics of course.


Yes, there were other great RPGs to come out but none that had the sheer quality of Final Fantasy 7.

See above.


Have there been RPGs that have had better stories? Yes, without a doubt. But the overall package presented in Final Fantasy 7 is something that hasn't been re-created as successfully since. As Solis said, this is why they're re-making old games.

Like what exactly? The rock pool deep characters? The pathetic combat system? Laughable game difficulty? No replay value?

Yeah, thats a real sucessful package right there. :rolleyes:

NorseFTX
01-19-2007, 11:17 PM
It's not required for people to be nice when they think you're a moron.

<<
It's...not required for people to tolerate others calling them a moron, either....
If you're rude when you think someone is a moron, even if they argue back, it's the person who was rude who pulled the 'trigger' first. >> I'm sure you know that you can't expect them not to argue back if you're rude...


I think what really galls a lot of people here is the idea that the series was overrated after FFVII. If anything, most of the FFs after FFVII are better than it was. Final Fantasy IX is easily the favorite FF of a lot of the members here and by the one with the best arguments to support it.

Ahh...
Mm, and I'd even say that FFIX is underrated, too....
But maybe where they come from, everyone worships FFIX and all post FFVII-games to the point that it's nauseating, and that's why they see them as overrated.....?
>>


Bullshit. Prak is a major reason why one SHOULD stay around.

I agree! I don't know if it's for the same reason, but I do agree with that....


Like what exactly? The rock pool deep characters? The pathetic combat system? Laughable game difficulty? No replay value?

<<
I challenge you!
To tell me why I enjoy this game. Because I do--and those things you mentioned, for some reason, didn't interfere with my enjoyment.
Tell me why!

Hex Omega
01-19-2007, 11:38 PM
It's...not required for people to tolerate others calling them a moron

If someone shows that they are a moron, then they should expect to be called on it.


I challenge you!
To tell me why I enjoy this game. Because I do--and those things you mentioned, for some reason, didn't interfere with my enjoyment.
Tell me why!

And just how the fuck am I supposed to do that? I'm not you, nor am I a mind-reader.

Alucard Collins
01-20-2007, 12:46 AM
Oh, so I'm a moron for having an opinion? You know what, fuck you people and fuck this board. Do the world a favor and burn in hell (most of you that is, thanks to those who want to be civil and have a REAL discussion). If you want a real message board with decent people that won't tolerate shit like this, visit: [Only registered and activated users can see links]

That's it, I'm done.

Mailbox
01-20-2007, 12:48 AM
LOL, Vampire Anime. That sounds sooooo cool!

solis
01-20-2007, 12:57 AM
Oh, so I'm a moron for having an opinion?

No, you're a moron for having a stupid opinion.


You know what, fuck you people and fuck this board. Do the world a favor and burn in hell (most of you that is, thanks to those who want to be civil and have a REAL discussion).

You are sooooo goth.


If you want a real message board with decent people that won't tolerate shit like this, visit: [Only registered and activated users can see links]


Problem, this isn't that board. And we don't care.


lol.
Bullshit. Prak is a major reason why one SHOULD stay around.

Prak is the MOST entertaining person here. Anyone who says otherwise should be banned.



I challenge you!
To tell me why I enjoy this game. Because I do--and those things you mentioned, for some reason, didn't interfere with my enjoyment.
Tell me why!

That answer is simple. You have obviously never played any of the better RPGs out there.

z.zetsumei
01-20-2007, 12:58 AM
I'm avoiding those boards like the plague. People who actually think they're vampires that disturb me. It's like they're stuck in some childhood mentality, only this time it's not about being a superhero.

Hex Omega
01-20-2007, 01:00 AM
[Only registered and activated users can see links]

you know what to do guys.

solis
01-20-2007, 01:03 AM
Storm the site and make them wish it was never created by breaking them down with our mind blowing logic which actually exists, unlike what they try to be?

Hex Omega
01-20-2007, 01:09 AM
thats even better actually, but requires more effort then what i had in mind.

solis
01-20-2007, 01:10 AM
Leave it to me Captain! *Salutes and goes off*

Mission complete. Forums have been turned over.

z.zetsumei
01-20-2007, 02:11 AM
you know what to do guys.

How about we PM all 29 members and show them how sad their boards are?

solis
01-20-2007, 02:15 AM
I already hit home with that. Only i posted god knows how many goth topics on their board. Such as your every day goth crap, the emo song, and goth poems, that are funny as hell because of the smart ass twist against goths they have at the end, the Cut yourself game, the Haiy U gaiys Thread. I think he and the rest get the point...Never post your forums link in a forums full of people who hate you and think you're a dumbass.

z.zetsumei
01-20-2007, 02:32 AM
I already hit home with that. Only i posted god knows how many goth topics on their board. Such as your every day goth crap, the emo song, and goth poems, that are funny as hell because of the smart ass twist against goths they have at the end, the Cut yourself game, the Haiy U gaiys Thread. I think he and the rest get the point...Never post your forums link in a forums full of people who hate you and think you're a dumbass.

We don't think he's a dumbass, we know he's a dumbass.

Valerie Valens
01-20-2007, 08:32 PM
Oh, so I'm a moron for having an opinion? You know what, fuck you people and fuck this board. Do the world a favor and burn in hell (most of you that is, thanks to those who want to be civil and have a REAL discussion). If you want a real message board with decent people that won't tolerate shit like this, visit: [Only registered and activated users can see links]

That's it, I'm done.

Flaming for civillity is like fucking for virginity. :smrt:

Prak, I can't believe you gave HIM, of all people, a seal of approval!

Seiryuu
01-20-2007, 08:50 PM
I already hit home with that. Only i posted god knows how many goth topics on their board. Such as your every day goth crap, the emo song, and goth poems, that are funny as hell because of the smart ass twist against goths they have at the end, the Cut yourself game, the Haiy U gaiys Thread. I think he and the rest get the point...Never post your forums link in a forums full of people who hate you and think you're a dumbass.Heh, I wish I could've seen them.

NorseFTX
01-20-2007, 09:31 PM
There's nothing wrong with letting someone know that you think they're not being intelligent....
But...I think there are more mature ways of going about it than just being rude or insulting.
<< Registering on a forum just to annoy people isn't a very...productive thing to do. ><



And just how the fuck am I supposed to do that? I'm not you, nor am I a mind-reader.

My reasons for liking the game aren't that complex--and I don't think we're as different as you might think we are.
Give it more thought!

I don't give challenges that I think someone can't complete. <<
But until you give me an answer, I wouldn't think you can say anyone who enjoys the game is "moronic"--since you don't understand their opinion in the first place. >> Understand something first, before you start talking bad about it!


That answer is simple. You have obviously never played any of the better RPGs out there.
Um...ahh.....
I think it's possible to have played better RPGs and still enjoy the game....

I like different games I play for different reasons...and I don't believe that there's ever been a game that I've disliked all-around. There was always something to enjoy in every game I've played....

Hex Omega
01-20-2007, 10:03 PM
My reasons for liking the game aren't that complex--and I don't think we're as different as you might think we are.
Give it more thought!

I don't give challenges that I think someone can't complete. <<
But until you give me an answer, I wouldn't think you can say anyone who enjoys the game is "moronic"--since you don't understand their opinion in the first place. >> Understand something first, before you start talking bad about it!

Bloody hell, you STILL dont get that personal enjoyment =! quality.

No-one has a problem with YOU liking the game, thats fine, good luck to you. To say it was "revolutionary" and other silly things, is just wrong though.

I mean, I love Predator 2, its an appalling film, but I enjoy it.

And take the Shawshank Redemption, quality wise, thats one of the greatest films ever made, but I know people who don't enjoy it(maniacs I call them).

NorseFTX
01-20-2007, 10:23 PM
Bloody hell, you STILL dont get that personal enjoyment =! quality.

No-one has a problem with YOU liking the game, thats fine, good luck to you. To say it was "revolutionary" and other silly things, is just wrong though.

I mean, I love Predator 2, its an appalling film, but I enjoy it.

And take the Shawshank Redemption, quality wise, thats one of the greatest films ever made, but I know people who don't enjoy it(maniacs I call them).

Hmf. I didn't say anything last time, but it's "!=", not "=!"....that's a bit beside the point, though. >> Unless, maybe...the syntax wasn't as strict as I thought it was....

Hm. You said, "Predator 2 was an appalling film"....
You enjoyed it, too! So saying that it was an appalling film is nice and everything, since it shows you acknowledge other views outside of your own...
But if a large amount of people liked the film like you did, I think that it's more than just "appalling"....there are many other appalling films, but if many people liked this certain one, maybe there was something more than that.

Hex Omega
01-21-2007, 11:10 AM
I don't think you'll ever get this, to be honest. :rolleyes:

Yes, there was something more, the fact it had an unintentional comedy factor, that despite the fact it was an awful film, made it very entertaining.

So bad its good, in essence.


Many films enjoy cult status because they are seen as ridiculously awful, for example Plan 9 from Outer Space. The critic Michael Medved characterized examples of the "so bad it's good" class of low-budget cult film through books such as The Golden Turkey Awards. These films include such financially fruitless and critically scorned films as Mommie Dearest, Cool as Ice, Boxing Helena which have become inadvertent comedies to film buffs. Movies have even achieved cult status by successfully imitating the awfulnesses of so-bad-it's-good movies (The Lost Skeleton of Cadavra and Amazon Women on the Moon being just two examples.)

NorseFTX
01-21-2007, 04:14 PM
I don't think you'll ever get this, to be honest. :rolleyes:


Hm.
Even so, thank you--for taking the time to answer me...

It was just a bit confusing...
You mentioned "Personal Enjoyment != Quality", so I suppose we're talking about a general, "intangible" concept right now (quality).
Before then, though, personal things were mentioned to me--
That I was personally retarded, and that I should personally "fuck off". >> It's a bit misleading when people want me to talk about "general quality" when they're at the same time busy stepping into "personal".

But alright--! So we're talking about Quality right now. I agree with the last point and example you provided.
I just wanted to ask something--since whenever I talked to you guys about this, it was never clarified...

What's the relation between personal enjoyment and quality?
I know that "personal enjoyment" can be created by a single product, while quality can only exist when there is more than one product to judge from. In this world, there are always things to compare to, so the fact that there must be more than one is a bit abstract and irrelevant...

But then...what is it that one judges to determine "quality"? Is it how well and consistently it acheives its function? That sounds alright to me...
Or is it something else?

iceberg325
01-21-2007, 06:57 PM
However, I must confess that FFVII truly was revolutionary in one aspect, although it was a truly terrible one. As far as I can trace it, the practice of making strategy guides mandatory if you want to find a game's secrets originated there. In other words, the revolutionary aspect of FFVII is the way it introduced a practice of near-extortion to the industry that continues to proliferate today.


What secrets in the game were so hard to find that you needed a guide?

And just to comment on FFX, the story was ok at best and the fighting system was really bad IMO. It was really dumbed down, I didnt like it at all.

z.zetsumei
01-21-2007, 07:19 PM
What secrets in the game were so hard to find that you needed a guide?

And just to comment on FFX, the story was ok at best and the fighting system was really bad IMO. It was really dumbed down, I didnt like it at all.

I, for once, agree with Iceberg here. ^^
You can find everything in FFVII without a guide by playing through it a couple times.

iceberg325
01-21-2007, 07:54 PM
I, for once, agree with Iceberg here. ^^
You can find everything in FFVII without a guide by playing through it a couple times.

; )

Agent0042
01-21-2007, 10:36 PM
Actually, I would tend to disagree. Certain secrets such as dating Yuffie or Barret at the Gold Saucer or discovering certain secret materia are pretty much impossible without a guide. I commend anyone who even knew it was possible to date Yuffie or Barret without reading it on the Internet, let alone actually doing it.

z.zetsumei
01-21-2007, 10:41 PM
I found Yuffie by accident on my first run-through and missed getting her the first time, over several repetitions of the same encounter on a second run-through where I played around with the response options she joined my party.
The Barret date I had was when my sisters were watching me play the game for the first time, and being the annoying brother I was at the time, chose not to play with their favorite characters (I didn't know what they were at the time but I know that they didn't like Cloud, Barret, or Red XIII). I got the date with Barret since I didn't get Yuffie, collapsing on the floor laughing.

Chrissss
01-21-2007, 10:45 PM
I didn't know you could date Yuffie. I knew about Barret but I never managed to do it. And Ive played through that game countless times.

Agent0042
01-21-2007, 10:47 PM
Yeah, Yuffie is totally datable. It's a tossup which date is funnier --- the one with Yuffie or the one with Barret. Without spoiling too much, let's just say that Yuffie tries to make a good time of it, but Cloud's totally not into it.


P.S.: If anyone is interested in finding out more about it, I can provide a savefile, script, instructions, etc. I did a guide about the whole thing many years back and still have it around.

Chrissss
01-21-2007, 10:50 PM
I would honestly like to know how to date them both. I always imagined the Barret date to be in wonder square or the battle arena. And thats just how I would've pictured the Yuffie date.

z.zetsumei
01-21-2007, 10:50 PM
If you want to date Barret, you don't get Yuffie. Heal Barret constantly during battles (for some reason he kept getting attacked constantly and I put the Cure materia on Cloud and never took it off) and be a total ass to Tifa and Aeris in responses and in battle (i.e. don't heal/revive them). There's some kind of hidden calculation for affection, but basically the level of affection for Barret has to be higher than it is for Tifa and Aeris.

Chrissss
01-21-2007, 10:54 PM
This explains exactly why I always end up dating Tifa, no matter what my responses are. I thought it just had something to do with what you say to them, no idea it was dependent on attitude towards them in battles. I never used Barret.

z.zetsumei
01-21-2007, 11:00 PM
I never used Barret.

I used him to spite my sisters, since they're scared of big niggers with guns.

Desert Wolf
01-22-2007, 04:08 AM
So bad its good, in essence.

60's Batman ftw!!

Agent0042
01-22-2007, 09:50 AM
Chrissss --- there's really more to it than just "heal Barret / Yuffie and be an ass to the others." There's some pretty specific steps you can take, but I'm not on my home computer right now. I'll try to get that info to you ASAP --- you might want to send me a PM though.

solis
01-22-2007, 09:56 AM
Date Barret? Now i must say, that must have been some pretty funny shit to watch.

Agent0042
01-22-2007, 09:57 AM
It's funny, but it's also lacking in some respects. I won't spill the details here in case anyone doesn't wanna be spoiled, but if anyone wants the info on how to do it / what happens, you are definitely welcome to PM me.

ROKI
01-22-2007, 10:15 AM
You can watch it in youtube if you want. Im pretty sure thy have it.

z.zetsumei
01-22-2007, 12:39 PM
There's a dating mechanics guide on GameFAQs.

NorseFTX
01-22-2007, 02:54 PM
<<
If you want to watch them on Youtube, here are the links:

Barret Date Scene:
[Only registered and activated users can see links]

Yuffie Date Scene:
[Only registered and activated users can see links]

These don't show all the possibilities for what you do in the play, though (except the Barret one)--you can ask Agent0042 for the save files and how to work those if you'd like.

Vaati
01-22-2007, 04:25 PM
There's a dating mechanics guide on GameFAQs.



Theres the link if anyone's interested.

EDIT=Link Broken - never mind.

Basically, the outcome has something to do with the type of clothes Cloud wears during the Don Coreo Mansion sequence.

Mr Jack
01-23-2007, 07:13 AM
thats another thing i got stuck on....the don corneo mansion....i remember getting it once, but other than that, ...whats the deal?

solis
01-23-2007, 07:37 AM
Barret: Wow Cloud, i never knew you looked so good in a blue dress..

Alvinz
01-23-2007, 11:47 PM
What about poor Red XIII?

Seiryuu
01-24-2007, 09:05 AM
What about poor Red XIII?
You can date RedXIII as well? o_O

Agent0042
01-24-2007, 12:19 PM
ROTFL. No. Definitely not.

z.zetsumei
01-24-2007, 02:05 PM
It'd be funny if Cloud didn't date anyone and found a dirty magazine under his pillow.

Zulu
01-24-2007, 03:07 PM
FFVII is way homoerotic if you ask me. Crossdressing heroes and one big homoseksual = Barret. Nah, seriously, this game had a very strong sexual undetone.

z.zetsumei
01-24-2007, 03:31 PM
Not to mention scrawny guys toting long/big swords and a red dog that bears a scar from one hell of a money shot.