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Hex Omega
10-02-2006, 05:32 PM
Nothing to do with battle systems or any rubbish like that. Focus simply on story. Which FF has the best story. For me, it's a toss between FFVI, FFIX and FFX. I'll elaborate:

FFVI: Superb story for me. Shows that humans do indeed make the same mistakes, and the whole 'Humans can't live with Espers' thing was fascinating, and draws several parallels with the world we live in. All the characters(bar a couple of exceptions) are involved in the plot, the story moves at the right pace, has several twists, several moments of sadness(General Leo dying :(), has a truly epic villian and is concluded well. Masterpiece.

FFIX: I love the story in this game too. Snowballs really well, the scale just gets bigger and bigger and the stakes get higher and higher. First you're battling to save one country, then a continenent, then an entire planet, then all of existence. Like VI, the vast majority of the characters are involved, they tie in, and their is a real bound between them. The theme of friendship and loyalty shines through very powerfully in this game.

FFX: Quite a dark story at times, but at the same time a very optimistic one, it shows that nothing is sacrosanct, whether it be the teachings of Yevon, the so-called never ending spiral, or the immortality of Sin, this game shows that nothing is impossible. However, the feeling of sadness, prevails, due to a gut-wrenching ending, where Tidus and Auron both 'dissappear', it is almost tragic really. The whole Yevon storyline fascinated me too, again paralells can be drawn with our world and our religions.

Anyway, which of these 3 do I like the most? I adore them all, but it has to be FFVI. It has the perfect balance, the most appealing themes and the story is told perfectly. Moves at the right pace, has some great plot-twists, surprises and character development is second to none.

Discuss~

Yui
10-02-2006, 05:59 PM
I really like all of them, but I like FFX the most. I liked about how Spira is stuck in the death spiral with all the evil, dead maesters and the mystery of Sin. And Tidus is sent into the future to help his dreaded father defeat Sin. And more plot twists in the end are thrown in, like Yuna's arranged wedding with Seymour, Tidus and Yuna's love(kissing scene - kawaii~), and Tidus finding out the real truth about Yuna's pilgrimage. It was a really sad story, especially in the end. Yuna finally defeated Sin without dying and was able to make his father really proud and saved all of Spira from the spiral of death, but her true love disappeared in exchange, which was really sad. "The people who should be here aren't. The ones who should be smiling with me aren't here." - Yuna from FFX-2

FFVI's story was really wonderful and more fantasy-like unlike other FF's, because with the Magitek Empire and the espers. Along with magic involved with the story and a really evil villain, the story has a lot of plot twists in it which will sometimes leave you guessing on what's going to happen next, and you'll be surprised(well, it left me sort of surprised~). The story is also infused with unique characters, which makes it(the game, and story) more entertaining.

And for FFIX, believe it or not, I haven't played it yet. I've only read about it in some websites and it looks good. Reading Bryan's post about FFIX, now I feel sad 'cause I know I'm missing out on a good game. I tried looking for it in some stores, but it wasn't there. And I'm not allowed to go to ebay. =(

Andyuk
10-02-2006, 06:15 PM
it's a toss between FFVI, FFIX and FFX.

Agreed.

I must admit i don't really know the full plot in 1,2,3 or 10-2. I got most of 4 and 5 and they didn't exactly wow me really.

I nearly cried at the end of 9 and 10 though.

7 was difficult to understand. In the end it turns out the translation ruined what was a rather incomplete plot anyway.

Ive never finished 8 but the first part is much better than the whole 'sorceress in the future' thing.

9 is once again better at the start but much better at staying interesting

10 was something different from 'save the world', it was more of a get back home, oh i can't so lets save the world instead.
Good stuff.

Hex Omega
10-02-2006, 06:20 PM
Could you maybe expand a little on that?(you as well Yui~) A good debate is badly needed(I was going to make this anyway Sarah, you're competition merely sped the process up :-*)

Garnet
10-02-2006, 07:06 PM
I agree with Bryan on FFVI and FFIX

I beat FFVI this past summer and I loved the story. Despite how fantasy-ish the story is, it's almost parallel to real world life. Poor Terra is stuck in-between worlds and when you think about it, that mindset existed less than two generations ago in my family. You only married people of your ethnicity. But Maudin (sp?) says "how do we know unless we try?" Personally, I think people should apply that line to real life. How do you know anything unless you try? Locke was out to protect the people who were important to him because he wasn't able to save his love. Celes saw that the empire was corrupt and fought against it. Each person had their own story and ended up fighting for the same thing...the good of the world.

I have played most of the way through FFIX and watched my friend beat the game. I loved the romance in the story. Who knew that a queen would fall for a simple thief? This story shows that love has no bounds and can break all kinds of social barriers. Zidane didn't have to continue to help Garnet but because he loved her, he would do anything for her. Yes, she was stiff at first but Garnet was also very open to new ideas which (ironically) Zidane introduced her to. They all fought for what they believed in and against a common enemy without letting their race stop them.

Mailbox
10-02-2006, 07:11 PM
Bryan, when are you going to give up on FF? It's not going to be interesting until we're buzzing about FF12 and it's worth something. I mean really, I wasn't aware you even played. You don't see me going around making Roy Mustang and Warcraft threads. (Though that sounds like a wonderful idea)

I vote FF10. I also find no reason in arguing my opinion because I'm not going to persuade anyone otherwise and it's not benefiting me. I am a master debater. /end

It would also make more sense to make this thread after FF12 for the simple fact it's release is about 28 days away and maybe it's some epic tale that everyone will love

Hex Omega
10-02-2006, 07:15 PM
Of course I played FF, why do you think I joined my dear? Sure, FF might not intrest me terribly now, but it is still intresting to discuss it from time to time.

Also, it isnt a vote, it's a debate. Reasons please. :-*

@Garnet: Just the kind of response I was looking for~

Jiro Aoi
10-02-2006, 07:23 PM
I like all Final Fantasy's for the most part but the ones to me that have the best story lines would be FFI FFVII FFIX
FFI- How can you not like the game that started it all not to mention it is the only final fantasy game to have its own awsome parody comic. I' just goig to leave it at that. SWORDSCHUCKS!!

FFVII- I was captivated by the trailers the game play everything the stroyline was so confusing till the end. Then it became one of the greatest ends in Final Fantasy. Why do you think they made a movie.

FFIX- My Favourite Final Fantasy it has awosme cut scene graphics and the characters all have their own speacial qualities.

Hopefully FFXII will be added I already have it ordered.

Mailbox
10-02-2006, 07:30 PM
Of course I played FF, why do you think I joined my dear? Sure, FF might not intrest me terribly now, but it is still intresting to discuss it from time to time.

Also, it isnt a vote, it's a debate. Reasons please. :-*
Lucky Charms for $500 plz

Well, I really mean X-2... same damn thing really.
Reasons; Rikku and Yuna were hot in X-2.

Garnet
10-02-2006, 08:32 PM
thank you

let's see...other reasons i like FFVI and FFIX *SPOILER COMING!!!! (just thought i'd put a warning out there)

FFVI: I found all the dreams that Shadow was supposed to have. the thing that gets me is that you'll never know when the past will come back to bite you in the butt. Shadow left his wife and daughter and then his daughter comes back to fight. They never clue Relm in though as far as I could figure out.

FFIX: hmm...let's see, I'll do this by character
Baku: definately has a big heart to take in four boys I could never really see together but Baku is definately a father to all of Tantalus
Marcus: You don't see much of him but I absolutely love him. He sort of takes Zidane's place once Zidane leaves. He's looking out for his "brothers" and goes great lengths to free Blank.
Blank: I love him too. He seems to be the main healer of Tantalus and looks out for his brothers before himself. He got himself petrified for Pete's sake!
Zidane: definately cheeky at times and needs slapped on occassion but can somehow lift everyone's spirit. He has some natural leader characteristics but I think he's just taking responsibility for his actions.
Cinna: Not much on him since he doesn't appear that much.
Ruby: Again, not much on her. She does seem like a mother/sister type person to all the boys though.
Garnet: I love her too. She feels responsibility to her country but also wants to help her mother at the same time. She shows that not all rulers have a stick shoved up their rear. She willingly changes her name and seems genuinely curious about how Zidane lived (though he only told her one story).
Steiner: He makes me laugh. He has a very deep sense of duty towards Garnet and his country but eventually he decides that Garnet's safety is more important.
Beatrix: she's definately strong-willed and eventually sees the deplorable acts the queen has committed.
Fraya: Her love is kind of tragic. She knows that he is alive but doesn't remember her. For me that's sad.
Eiko: Poor little girl lost all she had. She does remarkably well for only being around 6 or so and taking care of herself.
Vivi: Poor Vivi! Just because he looks different, people don't like him. He's cute though and proves that you can't judge a book by its cover by just being himself.
Amarant: I sort of feel sorry for him too. Gets tricked while he's just trying to do his job. Not much romance for him.

*END SPOILER!!!!

Psycho_Cyan
10-02-2006, 10:19 PM
FFX: Quite a dark story at times, but at the same time a very optimistic one, it shows that nothing is sacrosanct, whether it be the teachings of Yevon, the so-called never ending spiral, or the immortality of Sin, this game shows that nothing is impossible. However, the feeling of sadness, prevails, due to a gut-wrenching ending, where Tidus and Auron both 'dissappear', it is almost tragic really. The whole Yevon storyline fascinated me too, again paralells can be drawn with our world and our religions.

I have a tendency to look heavily (perhaps too heavily) upon characters, and I found FFX's characters weaker than FFIX or FFVI's. I thought the love story (which many folks seem to key on) to be quite rushed, sort of like Squinoa's story. I mean, there's a few "bonding" moments in the beginning, but the whole Macalania thing was way sudden. As for the Yevon thing, it's been done before. FFT had a similar theme with St. Ajora and the Glabados Church, and I found it to be better done than FFX's. The Han-and-Leia moment at the end wasn't exactly the greatest, but it worked.

Silfurabbit
10-04-2006, 10:39 AM
I haven't played them all so I don't know but it has to be FF8 or FF7

Magneto42
10-04-2006, 10:43 AM
FF8 for me.

Hex Omega
10-04-2006, 11:07 AM
FF8 for me.

This is a debate thread. That means you outline REASONS for your choice, like everyone else did.


I have a tendency to look heavily (perhaps too heavily) upon characters, and I found FFX's characters weaker than FFIX or FFVI's. I thought the love story (which many folks seem to key on) to be quite rushed, sort of like Squinoa's story. I mean, there's a few "bonding" moments in the beginning, but the whole Macalania thing was way sudden. As for the Yevon thing, it's been done before. FFT had a similar theme with St. Ajora and the Glabados Church, and I found it to be better done than FFX's. The Han-and-Leia moment at the end wasn't exactly the greatest, but it worked.

I agree about the love story somewhat, yes it was rushed, but not unexpected. I like FFX's story as it is quite powerful, in terms of conveying the emotions and themes, although i'm sure the voice-acting has a lot to do with this.

Darkiss
10-13-2006, 10:16 AM
As for me it's a toss between FF7 and FFX.

I tried to play VI but it made me feel bored in the first 3 hours.

FF8 was cool but it just didn't attract me to play it again.

FF9 was a cute game. But it was too "cartoonised"<- I guess I just created a word. Also it reminded me a lot of FF7. Zidane-Cloud getting mad when found out they were both "created". For different reasons though.

FF10 was the second best imo of the ff series. Wonderful music, voices (at least!!) great graphics and an intersting plot with lot of twists.

FF10-2...Uh...I hated it's music. And all that giggling wasn't really my style.
Great graphics, and "somehow" an interesting script.

The Roguear
10-13-2006, 10:40 AM
FFIX, although not many people agree (judging by the sales), but it's the best final fantasy game to date. The story is nice, a interesting start and kept on going right 'till the end. The characters we're 'unique' so to speak.

ROKI
10-13-2006, 11:15 AM
As for me it's a toss between FF7 and FFX.

I tried to play VI but it made me feel bored in the first 3 hours.

FF8 was cool but it just didn't attract me to play it again.

FF9 was a cute game. But it was too "cartoonised"<- I guess I just created a word. Also it reminded me a lot of FF7. Zidane-Cloud getting mad when found out they were both "created". For different reasons though.

FF10 was the second best imo of the ff series. Wonderful music, voices (at least!!) great graphics and an intersting plot with lot of twists.


Final Fantasy VI needs some time to develop its story.

FF IX:
"Cartoonized" doesnt neccesary mean bad. For example i can say the same with Dragon Quest: Journey of the cursed king.

Btw was Cloud created? I havent finished the game, but i think u mean Sephiroth?

Ceidwad
10-13-2006, 05:51 PM
Final Fantasy X had the best story by some way. It was a shame the game was otherwise hampered by flaws such as not having a world map, and being too linear in general.

Hex Omega
10-13-2006, 05:59 PM
Guys, this thread was made with the hopes of sparking debate. One line answers and statements aren't gonna cut it. Explain your choices please~

Prak
10-13-2006, 06:55 PM
Well, Bryan asked me to post here, so I guess I'll cave in and put in my two cents. I'll only discuss the ones I've actually completed for the sake of fairness.

FFIV: Well, it was completely straightforward and more than a bit overly melodramatic at points, but it definitely marked a turning point for the series as a whole in terms of narrative. I wouldn't call it the best by a long shot, but it was certainly influential.

FFVII: Two words: train wreck. If anything, the characters were more flat than the ones in FFIV, and considering that FFVII had a much greater amount of dialogue, that's unforgivable. The main story was overly linear, progressing dully from one event to the next without so much as a single plot twist. On top of that, its incompletion is aggravating. In terms of story quality, it's at the bottom of the barrel.

FFVIII: Barely better than FFVII's. The entire scenario is so ludicrous that I was never able to take the concept of SeeDs/Gardens seriously for a single moment. On top of that, it was short and riddled with pointless events that did nothing at all to further the main story. The characters were laughable, although not as bad as the ones in the last game. While they did at least have a little bit of personality development, it was often completely illogical or simply forced.

FFIX: What a difference switching back to an older dev team made. The characters were mostly well-nuanced and more or less believable, the cast was well-rounded, and the villains were actually a presence throughout the game. The scenario itself was pretty stock in the beginning, but the introduction of the Terra/Gaia dynamic helped set it apart and allowed for a few surprises. The story was complete, ended satisfyingly, and made a mark for itself as one of the series' best.

FFX: While the gameplay elements may have been questionable, the story itself was undeniably strong. The characters were the most well-developed in the series to date, often displaying quirks and tiny personality flaws, as well as managing to surprise me with their actions from time to time in a way that didn't seem forced at all. The world design was unparalleled. Pretty much everywhere you went, you were guaranteed to find a piece of its history, fleshing out the environment and making it all the more endearing. The main story path was mostly well-designed, although I did have a couple of quibbles, particularly the way Seymour's massacre of the Ronso is not played as a major event.It made up for little complaints like that by providing a couple of truly excellent plot twists that really made the player re-examine past events and look at the entire story in a new light. Extremely high marks.

FFX-2: Better than FFX. Yes, I mean it. You may not see it, but I can see it clearly. The game's main story path was almost totally inconsequential, but it was solid enough o hold my interest. Sure it was whimsical and definitely not in keeping with the dark tone of FFX, but it wasn't supposed to be like its predecessor. The lighter tone was, in fact, completely justified if you look at world history and the general mood of a nation after emerging victorious from a major conflict. 1950s America is an excellent example. However, where the game really shone was in its characters. Every single one of them was showed from different angles, giving an extremely thorough presentation of their personalities. Yuna, in particular, impressed me enormously. The character's desire to change herself conflicting with her deeply rooted sense of responsibility and do-gooder nature was deftly handled and showed a depth of personality I've seldom seen matched in a video game. On top of that, the secondary characters actually managed to be as impressive as most of the leads. Wakka in particular showed tremendous development.

Overall, I have to say that X-2 wins out in terms of character development, whereas FFX wins on the merit of its world-building and story progression. FFIX gets a very honorable mention for doing an exceptional job with less resources, most notably a lack of voice acting.

pedo mc tax me softly, black person (whom i love)
10-13-2006, 08:47 PM
FF Tactics: Best of the bunch, in my opinion. Solid character development, ass-kicking story and the best god damned story presentation period.

FFVI: Fucking awesome. The villain actually accomplishes his goal and you have to defeat him after the fact, actual character development and characters that you actually give a damn about whether they live or die.

FFVII: Train wreck, as said.

FFVIII: WORSE than FFVII for one reason only. The motherfucking Orphanage scene.

FFIX: I got bored and never finished it, this was after the whole incident with the Invincible blowing Alexander to bits. Cliche love story with little character development worth mentioning. Characters dealing with crisis, yes, but no real overall changes in the main character as he remains a smartass monkey until the end of the game.

FFX: Might have been enjoyable if it was possible to turn the voice acting off. As it was, I'm not all that crazy about 90 hour emo-cutter-slut rampages with shitty rock music to accompany it. Tactics did a much better job with the religion angle, too.

FFX-2: I couldn't get past the opening cinematic without snatching the disc out of the tray and destroying it. Fuck you, teeny bopper FF players.

Hex Omega
10-14-2006, 08:41 AM
Well, Bryan asked me to post here, so I guess I'll cave in and put in my two cents. I'll only discuss the ones I've actually completed for the sake of fairness.

~~~ You were right, I am surprised!


FFIV: Well, it was completely straightforward and more than a bit overly melodramatic at points, but it definitely marked a turning point for the series as a whole in terms of narrative. I wouldn't call it the best by a long shot, but it was certainly influential.

Haven't played it. :(


FFVII: Two words: train wreck. If anything, the characters were more flat than the ones in FFIV, and considering that FFVII had a much greater amount of dialogue, that's unforgivable. The main story was overly linear, progressing dully from one event to the next without so much as a single plot twist. On top of that, its incompletion is aggravating. In terms of story quality, it's at the bottom of the barrel.

Yeah, i'm with you here, maybe with the exception of the first part of the game. There's no real sense of unity, purpose or direction at all really. Poor character development(or none at all) seals the games fate as a story.


FFVIII: Barely better than FFVII's. The entire scenario is so ludicrous that I was never able to take the concept of SeeDs/Gardens seriously for a single moment.

I didn't think it WAS that ridicolous. A school of mercanaries is that silly an idea really, unless of course your talking about the whole 'the GF made me forget' bullshit. Apart from that, it wasn't so bad, coupled with the fact it's a fantasy game.


On top of that, it was short and riddled with pointless events that did nothing at all to further the main story. The characters were laughable, although not as bad as the ones in the last game. While they did at least have a little bit of personality development, it was often completely illogical or simply forced.

Agreeing with this.


FFIX: What a difference switching back to an older dev team made. The characters were mostly well-nuanced and more or less believable, the cast was well-rounded, and the villains were actually a presence throughout the game. The scenario itself was pretty stock in the beginning, but the introduction of the Terra/Gaia dynamic helped set it apart and allowed for a few surprises. The story was complete, ended satisfyingly, and made a mark for itself as one of the series' best.

Spot on. It's definetly a high-point in the series for me.



FFX-2: Better than FFX. Yes, I mean it. You may not see it, but I can see it clearly. The game's main story path was almost totally inconsequential, but it was solid enough o hold my interest. Sure it was whimsical and definitely not in keeping with the dark tone of FFX, but it wasn't supposed to be like its predecessor. The lighter tone was, in fact, completely justified if you look at world history and the general mood of a nation after emerging victorious from a major conflict. 1950s America is an excellent example.

You're right, a lot of people don't see it, because they can't see past the 'OMG TEENAGE DRESS-UP GAME, YUNA LOOKS LIKE A SLOT OLOL1111!' but I can certainly see where your coming from. It was the same situation in 1950's, 1960's Ireland, where the entire country was brought foward about 50-75yrs and a much more liberal way of thinking was encouraged and the shadow of the Catholic Church began to diminish.


However, where the game really shone was in its characters. Every single one of them was showed from different angles, giving an extremely thorough presentation of their personalities. Yuna, in particular, impressed me enormously. The character's desire to change herself conflicting with her deeply rooted sense of responsibility and do-gooder nature was deftly handled and showed a depth of personality I've seldom seen matched in a video game. On top of that, the secondary characters actually managed to be as impressive as most of the leads. Wakka in particular showed tremendous development.

The more I think about this, the more sense it makes and the more i'm inclined to agree. The game is very deceptive at first glance. But stronger then FFVI? FFIX? I think the fact that FFIX's main story is a lot stronger then X-2's, has excellent character development, and a far superior villian makes it stronger then X-2 in the story category. Great post though Prak. :P

Darkiss
10-14-2006, 11:08 AM
The thing I really liked in FFX-2 is that Yuna express her thoughts or anything that troubles her in every twist of the plot. Helps you to analyze and understand the character.
That was really nice, I think.
I wish most games had that...

Ceidwad
10-14-2006, 11:52 AM
Guys, this thread was made with the hopes of sparking debate. One line answers and statements aren't gonna cut it. Explain your choices please~

Trying to win thread of the month for October? ;-)

Right, I'll go through each one that I have completed enough times to give a full opinion on then.

FFVII-Fairly unoriginal in my opinion, there wasn't a great deal in it that distinguished it from a run of the mill RPG. I'm not saying it wasn't good though. It's just that Sephiroth was a stereotypical villain, destroyed Cloud's hometown, threatening to destroy the planet-I've seen it all done, sometimes better, on other RPGs. The one thing I liked about FFVII's villains were some of the Shinra executives. They were (on the whole) the most original characters in the game, which says much about the (lack of) originality in the main characters.

FFVI and FFVIII I never completed so can't really comment on them.

FFIX-Had the best characters in the entire series by some way. Far from the usual stereotypes that seem to appear in different forms in every other FF game (for example FFVII's Yuffie, FFVIIIs Selphie and FFX's Rikku are all very similar), FFIX had very distinguished characters. Vivi and Steiner were brilliant as an unlikely double act, whereas I thought that Zidane was a break from the norm in main characters. Although that could also be said of Squall in FFVIII, who was hardly a typical main character. The actual plot was somewhat disappointing imo, though that may have something to do with my never having properly seen the ending due to a scratch on my Disc 4.

FFX-As I said the best story in my opinion. I liked how they developed the story from a narrative point of view, and because Tidus was from another world they were able to create a very absorbing plot with all the characters other than Tidus being aware of the facts of Spira. Although for me this meant that I had to play the game multiple times to truly appreciate it's brilliance, it was also very rewarding to do so. Aside from that, I thought the actual characters themselves were slightly disappointing. Tidus was back to the 'nice (ish) but dull as hell' style of main protagonist used in most run of the mill RPGs while Auron was also sadly without any element of originality, other than his being unsent. Rikku as I mentioned earlier was too similar to the happy go lucky thief that appears in numerous RPGs. Wakka and Lulu were, in my opinion, the only truly good characters in FFX, and both develop significantly as the story progresses. Wakka appears in the early part of the game as a righteous religious figure with a deep rooted resentment for the Al Bhed, but towards the end we see him defying the teachings and fighting Yunalesca, while he develops a friendship with Rikku. Lulu at first appears harsh and cold but as the story progresses we see that change, and she forms a significant relationship with Tidus who she initially refers to as 'the boy'. Coupled with that she shares Wakka's faith in the teachings but her faith is not shaken until later in the story than Wakka's.

FFX-2-The story itself was not the best in my opinion. Yuna begins the game searching for Tidus yet that never goes anywhere. Instead, we have a similar scenario to FFX which sees Yuna yet again save Spira from destruction. It was OK, and I liked the ongoing conflict between New Yevon and the Youth League, and the fact that it was somewhat non-linear, not really something that could be said of FFX. But I never paticulalry warmed to it. Admittedly I've only played it once, so perhaps I should give it another go.

Kupo Nuts
10-15-2006, 06:36 AM
FFX or FFVIII

Hex Omega
10-15-2006, 07:35 AM
Trying to win thread of the month for October? ;-)

Nope, I make threads like this frequently.



The one thing I liked about FFVII's villains were some of the Shinra executives. They were (on the whole) the most original characters in the game, which says much about the (lack of) originality in the main characters.

I'd hardly call Shinra original. Heartless corporation run by a meglomaniac, hardly original! And they didn't tie in enough with the main plot as much I would have liked.



FFIX-Had the best characters in the entire series by some way. Far from the usual stereotypes that seem to appear in different forms in every other FF game (for example FFVII's Yuffie, FFVIIIs Selphie and FFX's Rikku are all very similar), FFIX had very distinguished characters. Vivi and Steiner were brilliant as an unlikely double act, whereas I thought that Zidane was a break from the norm in main characters. Although that could also be said of Squall in FFVIII, who was hardly a typical main character. The actual plot was somewhat disappointing imo, though that may have something to do with my never having properly seen the ending due to a scratch on my Disc 4.

Agreeing about the characters, i'm disappointed you don't think much of the story, as it's arguably the strongest in the series.


FFX-As I said the best story in my opinion. I liked how they developed the story from a narrative point of view, and because Tidus was from another world they were able to create a very absorbing plot with all the characters other than Tidus being aware of the facts of Spira.

Agreed, the fact that Tidus doesn't have a clue about the 'mechanics' of Spira, and considering the game is seen through his pov, it gives us a unique insight, and makes you feel part of the game.



Aside from that, I thought the actual characters themselves were slightly disappointing. Tidus was back to the 'nice (ish) but dull as hell' style of main protagonist used in most run of the mill RPGs

Wouldn't agree. There's more to him then that, despite the fact he's a whiny cunt!



Wakka and Lulu were, in my opinion, the only truly good characters in FFX, and both develop significantly as the story progresses. Wakka appears in the early part of the game as a righteous religious figure with a deep rooted resentment for the Al Bhed, but towards the end we see him defying the teachings and fighting Yunalesca, while he develops a friendship with Rikku. Lulu at first appears harsh and cold but as the story progresses we see that change, and she forms a significant relationship with Tidus who she initially refers to as 'the boy'. Coupled with that she shares Wakka's faith in the teachings but her faith is not shaken until later in the story than Wakka's.

Agreeing.


FFX-2-The story itself was not the best in my opinion. Yuna begins the game searching for Tidus yet that never goes anywhere. Instead, we have a similar scenario to FFX which sees Yuna yet again save Spira from destruction. It was OK, and I liked the ongoing conflict between New Yevon and the Youth League, and the fact that it was somewhat non-linear, not really something that could be said of FFX. But I never paticulalry warmed to it. Admittedly I've only played it once, so perhaps I should give it another go.

You really should. Read what Prak is talking about and it makes a lot of sense on a 2nd playthrough.

Black Paladin
10-15-2006, 07:53 AM
If you're after the best story in the FF series, Look no further than FF Tactics. Even though it was never released in the PAL teritories, I recommend importing for those who are interested, I got it for $25 which I think is about 18GBP, including P&P, which I found ridiculously cheap for a pristine factory wrapped game. As Odin stated it has a sharp religious angle, and it induces doubt about the true nature of god and his servants, but I won't spoil it for you all! The gameplay itself is amazing, The character development is some of the best I've ever seen, especially between Ramza, Delita and Ovelia and even the NPCs like Weigraf are developed throughly. Tell you what go out, buy the game, play it, come back and tell us what you think!

dark phoenix
10-15-2006, 08:11 AM
Problem. I don't have a chipped PS1 I got the newer one which dosen't allow you to chip it.

Ceidwad
10-15-2006, 10:25 AM
I'd hardly call Shinra original. Heartless corporation run by a meglomaniac, hardly original! And they didn't tie in enough with the main plot as much I would have liked.

Hmmm. Perhaps I should explain my opinion more clearly. I didn't so much think that Shinra itself was well implemented but certain characters within the corporation were. Reeve/Cait Sith for example. His part in the plot was an excellent twist in my opinion. I also found Heidegger to be amusing. The Turks were good characters too, I thought.

Kuchinawa
10-15-2006, 04:44 PM
Final Fantasy VII has the best story.. Thats what i think at least. :P

Hex Omega
10-15-2006, 05:10 PM
Hmmm. Perhaps I should explain my opinion more clearly. I didn't so much think that Shinra itself was well implemented but certain characters within the corporation were. Reeve/Cait Sith for example. His part in the plot was an excellent twist in my opinion. I also found Heidegger to be amusing. The Turks were good characters too, I thought.

Oh, I see. Yes, I like the Cait Sith/Reeve twist, one of the few things the game manages to do well.

Lukey
10-16-2006, 03:35 AM
My favourite plot is probably FFX's. The summoner/guardian idea was pretty cool, I thought. I know that in every game there needs to be the excuses for the party to travel the world over, but this was a good reason. I much prefer a pilgrimage from temple to temple than just 'we r on a quest 2 find black cape man n he is leading us all over da globe lol'.

But I love the way the FFVI story is told the most. It's not as original as X's, in my opinion, but I think it's great in the way that it focuses on a limited number of characters at a time, rather than in games like FFVIII where there is only one or two characters with a story and the rest are 'coincidentally' thrown in here and there. WE WERE ALL AT THE SAME ORPHANAGE AND MAIN VILLAIN #1 WAS OUR MOTHER FIGURE? YOU CAN'T MAKE THIS SHIT UP!

Ceidwad
10-16-2006, 05:23 AM
Oh, I have one thing to add to my previous posts. Does music in a game not count for anything these days? In my opinion, a game's music can have as much impact as the actual plot and dialogue on how absorbing and moving a game is. If I could, I'd like to give a mention to FFVII for its music. I think in that sense it's the best. FFX had good music too and was able to cobine that with the benefits of voice acting to produce the most immersing experience in my opinion. But for all its flaws it has to be said that FFVII had good music.

Anyone agree?

Lukey
10-16-2006, 07:13 AM
It does, but

this is a thread about a game's story. Music is irellevant, except if there were some FF story that revolved around music. But there isn't (no, not FFX-2 either).

Ceidwad
10-16-2006, 07:16 AM
Well OK, but say we were debating the pros and cons of the games, as has often been done on here, music would have a large bearing on my opinion, I would think.

The Anti-Existence
10-27-2006, 10:36 PM
Overall, I have to say that X-2 wins out in terms of character development, whereas FFX wins on the merit of its world-building and story progression. FFIX gets a very honorable mention for doing an exceptional job with less resources, most notably a lack of voice acting.

Are you saying FF-X2 is better than IX? And in what way? I'm afraid it falls far behind IX in characters. Example

Main protagonists:
Zidane is a carefree guy by nature. He has a lecherous playful side mixed healthfully with a sense of depth. He can do things as mindless as grab a girl's ass and then later tell her a tale of how he was a young man going in search of a home. As the plot progresses and his origins are revealed, we are graced with THE best character development scene in Final Fantasy. Period. "You're Not Alone" is not in any way shape or form equalled by any growth Yuna experiences in FFX-2. Zidane is grasping with the idea of the home he longed for would have crafted him into the thing that killed everything he loved. . The horror effects him so viscerally that he sees himself as a pariah at his core - how can one be with the ones he loved when that one's existence is to kill them? He has to struggle through physical and emotional anguish and could be lost forever in the sea of his own despair if the love of Garnet and the others did not anchor him. Coping with the idea your purpose in life is murder adn no less the murder of the home away from home you had found is a bit more devastating then anything Yuna dealt with. Especially in X-2.

What did Yuna do? She loves Tidus. That's it. The whole reason for what she's doing is to look for Tidus. And the ending? She finds him. Hooray. What a quest. What a tremendous upswing in character seh had. Oh, but being the High Summoner is so stressful! So stressful she has gone off on a wild goose chase with her incestuous and infatuated cousin and then magically, a guy who died 1000 years ago appears. Why is he there? Why is he there now? Who knows. Perhaps to give this atrocity some semblance of a plot. So she has to combat with Shuyin who also is pining after his love. And it's all very tragic.

Zidane is a 100x better than Yuna will ever even hope to be. And Kuja...well, he is possibly the greatest FF villain to date. Shuyin falls behind Zermus.

The Anti-Existence
10-27-2006, 10:51 PM
Factor in that with the completely absurd placement of someone like Paine on a ship with people who are the exact opposite of her personality and it all makes no sense. But, see, she was with Gippal and Nooj and Barali.She laughed and danced and they all had many foursomes! Then that "event" happened...it changed her into a brooding mix of Squall and Lulu. What's never happened in an RPG....................... I mean, characters hardened and reclusive thanks to suffering are hardly in abundance in fiction. But, she had a deep and spiritual discussion with Yuna and now she can laugha nd dance again. Amazing.

Oh and the whole part Nooj has some machina inside him contributed zero to the story or character development. And why is Rikku there? And why did Brother and Cid fight? Why is there a scene where Yuna is massaging Lablanc and it sounds like a cheap porno? This is more a kid's game than an actual RPG. The most complex part of the game is fitting Dresspheres. That's it. The story is lackluster to the point of absurdity and the characters represented don't grow in any way compared to FFIXX's. Vivi has to come to realize what death and mortality is. Steiner has to grow and learn there is a world outside the philosophy he has harbored his whole life. And Garnet has to cope with ungodly loss and failure when she attempts independence and must battle back from that.

And once more, Kuja is 10000000x better a villain than Shu-"I don't know why i just popped up now but I'm gonna kill everyone because my love died!!!!"-yin.

I will give one thing to FFX-2. I played it and replayed it because looking at a post-fundamentalist world is very insightful. After Yevon's collapse, holy lands are made into theme parks and tourist traps. Looking on in disgust at places like the Calm Lands, a place held in reverance for years, is transformed and used for games? Zanarkand, a place where many a summoner prished is more like some exotic resort? Additionally, the Ronso are planning a genocide for the Guado and the Youth League and New Yevon are nearly at war. Contempt, fear, discord and corruption ravage a land where order reigned and there was no war since the actual Machina War between Bevelle and Zanarkand. Intriguing political connotations can be drawn from that world including the power of fear induced by the state. Yevon indirectly used Sin to retain order which can be paralleled to the real world where Saddam did kill many people, but under his reign there was no open warfare between the populace. America comes in "liberates" them and they start killing each other. Yuna and friends destroy Sin and Yevon falls apart and the whole planet nearly goes to war.

That is the main reason I don't absolutely hate FFX-2. It does have some value if you look hard enough at it. But, beside that, it's crap.

Prak
10-28-2006, 10:28 AM
Don't double post. Also, come talk to me when you want to have a serious discussion without masturbating all over FFIX and deliberately downplaying the other side. As it stands, all I can do is look at you as nothing more than a passing moron, totally unworthy of my time.

Hex Omega
10-28-2006, 10:46 AM
Pretty much agreeing with that. I was going to reply to the first post, but the second one proves that you're totally biased in favour of FFIX, therefore making any reply of mine futile.

The Anti-Existence
10-28-2006, 01:52 PM
Don't double post. Also, come talk to me when you want to have a serious discussion without masturbating all over FFIX and deliberately downplaying the other side. As it stands, all I can do is look at you as nothing more than a passing moron, totally unworthy of my time.
__________________

I would surmise anyone who uses facts is a moron to you.


What did Yuna do? She loves Tidus. That's it. The whole reason for what she's doing is to look for Tidus. And the ending? She finds him. Hooray. What a quest. What a tremendous upswing in character seh had. Oh, but being the High Summoner is so stressful! So stressful she has gone off on a wild goose chase with her incestuous and infatuated cousin and then magically, a guy who died 1000 years ago appears. Why is he there? Why is he there now? Who knows. Perhaps to give this atrocity some semblance of a plot. So she has to combat with Shuyin who also is pining after his love. And it's all very tragic.

All facts: the story only began and Yuna only went on the Celsius because of Tidus. Kimahri found that sphere and she looked at it and mistakes Shuyin for Tidus. Same goes for the sphere depicting Vegnagun. Secondly, Brother was obsesed with her. That was made transparent. THat would quality as "incestuous and obsessed" I believe. I know they are big words - but there is dictionary.com if you need assistance. And of course, Shuyin did die 1000 years ago when him and poor Lenne were oh so brutally gunned down but he picks the timeframe of the game to stage his revenge.


Factor in that with the completely absurd placement of someone like Paine on a ship with people who are the exact opposite of her personality and it all makes no sense. But, see, she was with Gippal and Nooj and Barali.She laughed and danced and they all had many foursomes! Then that "event" happened...it changed her into a brooding mix of Squall and Lulu. What's never happened in an RPG....................... I mean, characters hardened and reclusive thanks to suffering are hardly in abundance in fiction. But, she had a deep and spiritual discussion with Yuna and now she can laugha nd dance again. Amazing.

Please, do correct me, but do you see girls who go "oh, poo!!" hanging out with Goths? That's what Paine amounted to. Her serious and typical brooding look would indicate she would have gone completely insane after being exposed to someone like Rikku who is the exact opposite. And she was only made this way by what happened to Nooj, Gippal, Barali and her. That was the facts given to us by the Crimson Sphere. She was a happy and cheerful person with them then their Squad and everyone got hurt and now she's on her own and dark and brooding.


Oh and the whole part Nooj has some machina inside him contributed zero to the story or character development. And why is Rikku there? And why did Brother and Cid fight? Why is there a scene where Yuna is massaging Lablanc and it sounds like a cheap porno? This is more a kid's game than an actual RPG. The most complex part of the game is fitting Dresspheres. That's it. The story is lackluster to the point of absurdity and the characters represented don't grow in any way compared to FFIXX's. Vivi has to come to realize what death and mortality is. Steiner has to grow and learn there is a world outside the philosophy he has harbored his whole life. And Garnet has to cope with ungodly loss and failure when she attempts independence and must battle back from that.

Nooj had machina in him as revealed in his sphere. There was no other mention or point made of this fact. Brother and Cid's fight was mentioned by Una in the Thunder Plains locale after you beat the Chimera boss. And, again, the cheap moaning of Lablanc when Yuna is massaging her sounded like a cheap porno as I said. That's not deniable. The game was made for fanservice and the J-Pop people and that's why that is there.

Oh and nice way not to counter anything. Vivi havin to grasp his own mortality, having to move on and understand himself after Quan died, meeting others like hm who are first mindless killing machinesand then they're speaking but terrified consciousnesses and later they're used again by kuja who manipulates that fear to retain their service. Vivi had to deal with that. A bit more insightful than anything Rikku did...


And once more, Kuja is 10000000x better a villain than Shu-"I don't know why i just popped up now but I'm gonna kill everyone because my love died!!!!"-yin.

Shuyin did just come out of nowhere and did just want to destroy the world because his girlfriend was whacked. That's all the story to him and nothing more.


Pretty much agreeing with that. I was going to reply to the first post, but the second one proves that you're totally biased in favour of FFIX, therefore making any reply of mine futile.

It would be futile more for the fact FFX-2 was a pathetic excuse for a videogame let alone a Final Fantasy and it couldn't come close to being half as good as FFIX. I've said why twice now and given the solid facts to back them up. Maybe you and Prak would try and use evidence to support your own assertions instead of throwing around insults? I thought you wantead a debate. All I see is tWo cowards who can't take it when their opinion is challenged.

Hex Omega
10-28-2006, 06:31 PM
And all I see is an long-winded, totally biased idiot. :rolleyes:

The Anti-Existence
10-28-2006, 07:36 PM
And all i see is a one-sentence insult to deride everything I said. But, I know you'll give me an oh so witty comeback like "that's all your dumbass deserves." Not like I really care. I visit this forum every 3 months, post 10 times and forget about it. But, oh well. It was nice debating with you.

Hex Omega
10-29-2006, 10:54 PM
Uh, no actually. I'd just expect something a bit more objective from someone such as yourself.

Kouketsu
10-29-2006, 11:48 PM
FF Tactics: Best of the bunch, in my opinion. Solid character development, ass-kicking story and the best god damned story presentation period.


If you're after the best story in the FF series, Look no further than FF Tactics. Even though it was never released in the PAL teritories, I recommend importing for those who are interested, I got it for $25 which I think is about 18GBP, including P&P, which I found ridiculously cheap for a pristine factory wrapped game. As Odin stated it has a sharp religious angle, and it induces doubt about the true nature of god and his servants, but I won't spoil it for you all! The gameplay itself is amazing, The character development is some of the best I've ever seen, especially between Ramza, Delita and Ovelia and even the NPCs like Weigraf are developed throughly. Tell you what go out, buy the game, play it, come back and tell us what you think!

Thank goodness I'm not the only one on this choice. Tactics takes the top prize for best story by a mile. Why? Tactics takes elements of some of the greatest tales of corruption and warfare in human history and recreates them into an incredible and engaging gameplay experience. In many other Final Fantasy stories, I find it gets to a point of predictability that detracts, but in Final Fantasy Tactics, even should things become predictable, they still remain amazingly developed, to the point where you keep playing because you want that affirmation of your predictions, you want that closure that the game might be able to provide. It poses very serious questions and quandaries that few other games, let alone other Final Fantasies, will even dare to dive into. Questions of religion and government, power and faith, friendships and family are all brought up with an incredible sense of urgency that makes you challenge your own opinions, something that few other games can achieve period.

Even in spite of widely cited translation problems and a complete straying from Final Fantasy gameplay norms, Tactics makes itself memorable. There's a good chance that most of us here could do little to retell maybe one Final Fantasy story again from memory start to finish without missing a beat, most likely because they've been played so repetitively. But with Tactics, I remember every moment so vividly. An absolutely amazing game that everyone needs to play.

Arcanine
10-29-2006, 11:49 PM
this really is some kind of wonderful [:-)
i mean....i wanted to say something about X for the longest time and then got intimidated by the many in depth posts. As reasonable as they are, they are not without some fluff...

X: alot of people are saying things like: "Tidus is from another 'world'."
I want to say, even though this is one of many forums and not all committed fans would hear this, and I could just easily toss my comment aside and tell everybody to quit tossing their assumptions around and read a related faq, buuuuuuut, Tidus is not from another world, he is simply part of a summoning by Yevon, Yunalesca's father, the leader and imprisoner of the original Zanarkand. This summoning is not pin pointed by a character's verbal reference or any visual such as a map (and by the way Ceidwad: i didn't consider X's lack of a world map as compared to X-2 to be in any way degrading or hindering in the playing of X; although the locale map in the corner sometimes seemed unnecessary..), but it can be accepted to be another imagine-only part of the game.
X's story was indeed original in centering on one job class for a story, as well as being the introductory rpg to the ps2.

IX: Played previous ffs to understand it's value more..this is my favorite next to VIII.

VIII: Everything BUT the battle system was excellent and original for individual critiquing. The battle system is different than all the others, it just gets standardized and not very interesting, but this is probably because of the same way the mood is set: blandly logical and straightforward with Squall and the main plot seeming to be interesting by being random and unpredictable but Squall is only waiting for someone to state the obvious for him to continue as in the first and beginning of the second chapter when Balamb is mobilized and the Sorceress is designated as the target with the rest of the story to be explained in tow.

IV: I hate to compare this to a movie but, this was a quick and 'flashy' game to me. All of it's characters had their own reasons for following Cecil, or saving the Earth by fighting Golbez, but they really had no more in depth connection to eachother; Cecil merely traveled along picking each one up and assembling his crew for the final fight in what would be hours were it not for the leveling system. The only reason I still like it is because it was it was the first I had played...

VII: There's really no reason to include this one for the goings to and from revelling and bashing, although all the instances mean much more than the main plot. It's kind of a weak statement, but it's only more true for this game than all the others for it's greatest proximity to reality. In this game you can go to a mako reactor (nuclear reactor?) and thwart corporate evil. The labor industry and soldiers and villages and scientific references through Gast and Vincent and Hojo are near probable. The beginning of the game accentuates this even more by establishing the depressing mode of living, and introducing the escape..



by the by: i was going to post something about Tactics but the previous postings of the aforementioned says it best.

NorseFTX
10-30-2006, 05:45 PM
Hmm....
I'll give a short outline on what I believe the themes of each game are....(for FF7-10...I'm still in the middle of FFVI and II, and FFI is less plot-driven than key-item-driven >>)
These are how I personally have seen and observed the games, and how I feel about these games....XP So if you disagree, feel free to let me know, since I want to see what you guys think of this, too....

!!!! Plot Spoilers!!!! >> Just in case....

Overarching themes:
FFVII - Hope
FFVIII - Love
FFIX - Life
FFX - Tradition

I. Final Fantasy VII
FFVII was a very human story..."very human"...meaning that it shows humanity in its great and terrible moments....
Almost all the characters have flaws....even the main character was self-delusional and believed he was something that he wasn't. Midgar is full of corrupted people, both above the plate, who simply do things for profit, and the people below the plate, whom many have succumbed to petty theft, and general 'prostitutism" >> You also see the same in the Corel Desert Prison, and North Corel, full of people destitute and resentful. Even Barret's friend grew insane from hatred and loss of hope in the world, committing suicide.
Hojo also was so absorbed in scientific study that he lost all regard for what is humane, and created monsters, and became a monster.
The ShinRa company was corrupted beyond measure...the president set up the destruction of one eighth of his entire city without regard to the people living in the area. He was planning to blame AVALANCHE, the group that he was going to eliminate with the destruction of Sector seven, for the cause of the destruction itself....and he watched, the whole time, from his high office building, as he killed thousands of his own people knowing that he would not be blamed for it.

However, then comes the disaster, the meteor, bringing all the people of the world, even AVALANCHE and ShinRa, together.
And at the end, FFVII is about hope...for humanity.
Bugenhagen said, "Holy will cleanse all that is bad off the planet. ......Good or bad...Ho ho ho, I wonder which we humans are"
And in the end, Holy chose to save humanity....

Even with all the flaws people have, and the horrible things people are capable of.....there is still hope for us.


II. Final Fantasy VIII
This is a love story in the purest sense, showing the prevailing of love even through world crisis. The game plays the same way you would experience a dream....sometimes convoluted, sometimes unreal...but still an experience.

The love story begins with Laguna and Julia, and is shown to blossom with the single night they spent with one another...and Laguna's promise to come back to see her. However, Laguna never was able to come back...and their love was never realized.
By chance or by fate, though, Squall is assigned to work for Rinoa. Later, it is discovered that Laguna is Squall's father, and Julia is Rinoa's mother....
And the love that began between Laguna and Julia that was never realized was in a way fulfilled through Squall and Rinoa's love for one another....
Laguna and Julia's love for one another was able to reach eachother, even past generations....
And Squall and Rinoa's love for one another kept them together....Squall went into space with nearly no chance for survival in order to save Rinoa....and he did. And Rinoa saved Squall in the turmoil of Time Compression...their love kept them together, through everything that they went through.
Once Laguna's love and Julia's love found each other through Squall and Rinoa, they wouldn't ever let them lose each other again, not through anything the world threw at them.

III. Final Fantasy IX

FFIX told of a story of experiences, and it was about what it means to "exist"...to live. It questioned the meaning of life, and of death...and many characters try to answer this question, in varying ways, each to their own experiences.....
The character this is most prominent in is Vivi... He begins to discover that his kind were created for the purpose of taking the lives of others...and when he meets others of his kind that are free from the enemy's control, he finds that they were as naive as he was about the meaning of life and why they exist...and they did not understand the meaning of death, but only knew that people "stopped moving". Through experience of the world, he comes to recognize what is death, and starts to understand his 'life'. His life was his experiences, becoming knowledgeable about the world, learning, and slowly shedding the skin of naivete, though never losing it completely, since one is always learning throughout life.

Every character goes through this kind of experience, of learning about the world...and each of the characters were naive in their own way....
And the theme of "going out and experiencing different things" is seen many times in many characters...

In a way, FFIX tries to answer the question, "What is the meaning of life?" with the answer..."To live is to experience the world, to both be naive, and to be knowledgeable.... Your memories of your experiences are what creates you--your life."
A life with no experiences isn't much of a life at all.

IV. Final Fantasy X
FFX came around the time of the height of Japanese westernization, and there was the beginning of a large cultural shift. This might have been part of the reason for FFX's storyline theme of "breaking tradition in order to form a new order".
At the beginning, you are introduced to a world where people adore the main character, Tidus, and he has tons of fans screaming at him and everything. Immediately afterwards, you witness the entire city swallowed by a frightening force, and Tidus is thrown into a new world...
In the new world, there is something every person worships; "Yevon". At first, Tidus follows Yuna and her other guardians through a long journey, doing what many people before them have done, to fulfill what is dictated by "Yevon". On the way, they see devastation that is inflicted by "Sin", the creature that is meant to be stopped by their journey, and this motivates them further....
But when they finally are nearing their destination, they learn that "Sin" is tied to "Yevon". It was true that "Yevon" promoted the death of "Sin", but it also recreates "Sin". Fulfilling what "Yevon" dictates will only force another generation of a summoner and their guardians into the same journey, and this will repeat, in a cycle.
Tidus, Yuna, and their group resolve to find a way to break this cycle, and liberate their world from the corrupt tradition.

The "breaking of tradition" seems to be the overarching theme of FFX, but there are many other twists that aren't related to the main theme, such as the nature of Tidus, and who Auron is....
Grmf.....
I just realized, I need to play this game again.....><
I kind of stopped after I finished dodging lightning bolts >>
After that, I never felt like replaying the game again XP

Arcanine
10-30-2006, 09:45 PM
Hojo also was so absorbed in scientific study that he lost all regard for what is humane, and created monsters, and became a monster.

He wasn't completely inhumane when he considered the lifespan of an ancient and attempted to increase her longevity by combining species instead of deadening her in cryostasis or analyzing her in multiple jars of preservation fluid like you would see in some scary movies...forget what its called..not amber.


The ShinRa company was corrupted beyond measure...the president set up the destruction of one eighth of his entire city without regard to the people living in the area. He was planning to blame AVALANCHE, the group that he was going to eliminate with the destruction of Sector seven, for the cause of the destruction itself

He didn't just plan he did blame AVALANCHE...


At the beginning, you are introduced to a world where people adore the main character, Tidus, and he has tons of fans screaming at him and everything. Immediately afterwards, you witness the entire city swallowed by a frightening force, and Tidus is thrown into a new world...

I'll assume you are using the term "world" metaphoriclaly...


Grmf.....
I just realized, I need to play this game again.....><
I kind of stopped after I finished dodging lightning bolts >>
After that, I never felt like replaying the game again XP
That's just the point that needs to be made about this thread..it was easier when we played the games..now we need to play one or another through or read a faq to adequately debate.
That lightning thing pissed me off so much, got to 196 and then got hit..just said forget it and didn't plan on using Lulu and her ultimate weapon anytime soon like I did in Legend of Dragoon and not completely preparing and using the four lesser characters..Haschel, Meru, Miranda (White Dragoon), and Rose? Can't remember if she's available when fighting Melbu Frahma.

The Anti-Existence
10-30-2006, 11:46 PM
Uh, no actually. I'd just expect something a bit more objective from someone such as yourself.

How am I not being objective at not being entirely thrilled or pleased with a song making a group of bitter and vengeful people forget being bitter and vengeful? Also, how am I not being objective at saying Shuyin did just come out of nowhere? He died 1000 years ago yet pops up just now to execute his death plan? And again, killing all the world because your love died is very old and shallow.

I mentioned other points that are true. The revelation of Nooj having machina inside him went nowhere. Paine has nothing in common with the protagonist group she tags along with - I know people with those kind of personalities and they don't mix well. And I don't care how you try and push it, Brother's incestuous obsession with Yuna was a cheesy and low form of humor.

How is any of this wrong? How are they unfair reasons to dislike the game or story or characters?

Arcanine
10-31-2006, 07:38 PM
Hmmm. Perhaps I should explain my opinion more clearly. I didn't so much think that Shinra itself was well implemented but certain characters within the corporation were. Reeve/Cait Sith for example. His part in the plot was an excellent twist in my opinion. I also found Heidegger to be amusing. The Turks were good characters too, I thought.
Reeve's role in the game isn't a considerable one as far as supporting the main plot. Yes he goes from being a fortune teller to helping you out to stealing the Key Stone from you and revealing his connection with Shinra but when he gets to helping you out again..it really isn't that emphatic as he really isn't that helpful. When Tifa gets strapped in by Scarlet, it takes a blast from Sapphire weapon to break her out, not Reeve. When your butt is getting chased down by Soldier still and Heidegger and Scarlet unleash the Proud Clod you fend for yourself, Reeve isn't there to sabotage anything. When Hojo and Rufus are unleashing the Sister Ray on Northern Crater, Reeve just doesn't have the pull in the company to actually do anything about it! (whether or not he thought it would actually help Cloud's party in getting to Sephiroth, the real threat that Shinra isn't equipped for)
Overall, Reeve Tuesti is a flat character and is proved even more in Dirge of Cerberus how much of a wussie he can be using dolls to act for him. I haven't played Crisis Core or Before Crisis to understand completely how Reeve is an important member of Shinra or if he's even associated with the Turks, so as far as everything else is concerned, Reeve is a b*^%& and nothing more.


Oh, I see. Yes, I like the Cait Sith/Reeve twist, one of the few things the game manages to do well.
what?


Oh, I have one thing to add to my previous posts. Does music in a game not count for anything these days? In my opinion, a game's music can have as much impact as the actual plot and dialogue on how absorbing and moving a game is. If I could, I'd like to give a mention to FFVII for its music. I think in that sense it's the best. FFX had good music too and was able to cobine that with the benefits of voice acting to produce the most immersing experience in my opinion. But for all its flaws it has to be said that FFVII had good music.

Anyone agree?
Well I sure don't because music is a base support to the game. In other words, it's supposed to count for something. But it's an accepted account of the game, not something fans would overly distinguish between games to determine value or theme. And the voice acting at least in X, I haven't played all of X-2 but saw enough amv's to know the voicing got better, most people know to be more than amateur with it's quipping or jutting, although the english translators did what they could with the timing since japanese (or whichever eastern language was used in their developing) tend to have that speech trait.

Shashkana
11-12-2006, 01:47 PM
It's just based on prespective. If you like negative, basic or shorter storylines, then a good game would be probably (in my opinion) Tactics or even Final Fantasy II (SNES) / V (Playstation). If you like positive, complex, or longer storylines, then Final Fantasy III (SNES) / VI (Anthology, Playstation) and Final Fantasy VII would be good.

I'm not basing the story/game in general, like side quests and such, but rather the storyline itself. I believe many people say the side quests add to it, but they're just extras.

Storyline-wise, I would have to say Final Fantasy VII would have the best, even though I haven't beaten the game yet. I eventually will beat it, I just don't know when.

Swedish Fish
11-12-2006, 02:11 PM
Storyline-wise, I would have to say Final Fantasy VII would have the best, even though I haven't beaten the game yet. I eventually will beat it, I just don't know when.

Let me be the first to chuckle in the corner.

amiah
11-12-2006, 06:17 PM
FF7 was great from the ones I've had a chance to play. I still need to try ff3. I hear it's very good.

Prak
11-13-2006, 07:24 AM
Rofflin at the kids who don't know the difference between complexity and confusingly bad presentation.

The Anti-Existence
11-13-2006, 09:22 AM
Oh come on, Prak. It's not their fault the people who made the game had to try and explain all the mistakes they made while whoring out the game in the compilation and books. I mean, Aeris managing to stay alive and give everyone on the planet healing urine (or was it rain?) from the Lifestream and so she got her own little book. I'm still waiting for the game when they explain why Sephiroth is a villain in the game. As I pointed out, he has no motivation or purpose in what he's doing. He's essentially a complete moron because he went evil for a reason that he should know is wrong but he continues to be a bad guy. What a rocket scientist he is. And what is his record as of now? 0-3?

seryass
11-13-2006, 06:39 PM
For the sake of not wanting to make too long a post I will skip the first three games but then I consider them fairly generic anyway in terms of story.

FFIV: This is undoubtedly the first FF game which had a totally different form of storytelling from the first three games. It's narrative was strong and at it's heart was a simple tale of good versus evil with quite a few plot twists thrown in. What really helped this game though was the characters which fit in very nicely with the story. Each character felt unique and it was the first game in the series to have a set cast of characters that were intricately connected to the plot. It doesn't have the best storyline in an FF game but in terms of narration it did what it set out to do and for that I think it's one of the better games in the series.

FFV: Oh dear. I never really liked FFV and this was mainly due in part to it's storyline. Having played FFI before it sadly FFV felt like virtually a remake of the first game except it had actual characters which were central to the plot as opposed to just bland characters that you had to name. Sadly though the characters were not all that interesting either and a later game in the series (FFIX which is usually compared to FFV the most) would succeed much better in telling a far more original story with more interesting characters. FFV's saving grace is the Job System which is a vast improvement to the one in FFII. However that is not the subject of this topic. In terms of storyline I think FFV's is one of the weakest simply for the fact that it isn't all that original and just feels like a retelling of the first game's story with more emphasis on the characters. It's too generic.

FFVI: Undoubtedly one of the best storylines in the series which is helped tremendously by the best character development in the series. Terra is one of my favorite main heroes from the series simply from the progress she makes throughout the story. FFVI also has quite a few plot twists in the series (though not as much as FFIV). Some people have complained about FFVI's ending which doesn't really give an exact explanation of what happened to everyone at the end of the game. It's rather a pointless argument since not every game in the series has done this (FFVII in particular in terms of the game - yes I know the movie has tried to correct this). You can also guess what happens to most of the characters anyway. Finally FFVI also has one of the most interesting villains in the series in the form of Kefka. Whilst later games in the series tried to give reasons why a villain is acting the way he is FFVI didn't. Kefka is simply psychotic. There is no solid reason given for why he is evil. He just is. Ultimately whereas that might be a bad thing in Kefka's case it's one of the best things about the character since he is so unpredictable. To sum up one of the best storylines in the series.

FFVII: The worst storyline in the entire series by far. FFVII's problem is that it tries to be too clever for it's own good. The story attempts to be witty and intelligent but ultimately fails for the most part as incoherent nonsense. Sadly it's characters are also handled terribly and are nowhere nearly as developed as any of the other games in the series from FFIV onwards. It's portrayal of the hero Cloud left me totally confused as to what or who he really was coupled with a villain who is equally as bad. It also has virtually no plot twists and when there is one it is virtually unrecognizable since the story is too confusing.

FFVIII: In contrast to the previous game FFVIII's story is better. Sadly the plot can get a little far-fetched at times (particularly towards the end of the game). The story also isn't helped by the bland and totally miscast hero who is totally unbelievable in the role since he is such a loner. Another sad fact of the game is how little character development any of the main characters get. There is no excuse for this considering a few years before FFVI had an equal amount of character development split between most of the main characters and that game was far shorter and had less amounts of time to develop them. In terms of storyline FFVIII's is one of the weaker ones.

FFIX: Like FFIV before it FFIX sets out what it aimed to do by telling a good story with a clear and intriguing narrative. After re-evaluating this game it also has some of the best character development in the series. Out of all the main heroes in the series Zidane goes through the most changes personality wise ultimately for the better. It also has the most believable romantic tale in the series especially after the lacklustre tales of Cloud and Aerith/Tifa and Squall and Rinoa. As the game progresses you can see how much Zidane is changing character wise because of his feelings towards Garnet. Most of the other main heroes also get a turn in the spotlight (though some get more than others). Next to FFVI, FFIX also has the most interesting villain in the series in the form of Kuja who is given far more background personality than Sephiroth had. Ultimately FFIX has one of the best storylines in the series.

FFX: As pointed out before FFX can get quite dark in places which can be beguiling at times given it's light-hearted appearance. In terms of story FFX has a very good one coupled with extremely well developed characters. All of the main heroes are handled well and each have subtle unique character traits that could easily surprise you by doing something completely unpredictable which was a first in the series. Sadly the main villain was not as well handled as some of the previous games in the series otherwise this could have had some of the best character development by far. Nevertheless the villain's effectiveness in the game is more of a sinister presence than anything else which really helps darken the mood of the game at times. FFX has one of the better storylines.

FFX-2: In terms of story FFX-2 not only continues on from where FFX left off but also improves on the story and in particular the characters. This is no surprise really given as how the game focuses more on storytelling than gameplay (especially when compared to the rest of the games in the series). As mentioned before FFX-2's strongest point is the characters which are explored in further detail. Given how two years have passed since FFX naturally some characters are going to change personality wise (particular mentions go to Yuna and Wakka who act totally different than they did before but understandably so given the changes the characters have gone through during the story). The new characters are also handled well and fit in nicely with the overall story. Adding new characters to a continuation of a story can be risky and interrupt the flow of story but in FFX-2's case they actually enhance the story. Shuyin and Lenne's romantic tale also fits nicely into the story in contrast to Tidus and Yuna's tale.

Before summing up I also just want to quickly mention FF Tactics. In terms of storyline it is very weak and disjointed which isn't helped by an extremely poor translation.

To sum up overall I'd have to say FFVI has the best storyline. It's tale of 'Humans and Espers' not be able to co-exist is intriguing and extremely well told. It also has one of the most shocking events that ever happens in an FF game causing untold devestation around the world all caused by one of the nastiest villains in the series. Coupled with the best character development in the series is why it gets my vote.

Special mentions also go to FFIV for telling a nice simple but effective story with a well-rounded cast of characters and FFX-2 for it's successful attempt at adding new layers to an already well told story as well as introducing new and engaging characters into the mix.

Psycho_Cyan
11-13-2006, 06:56 PM
While I rarely defend FFVII, I'd have to disagree about it being the worst story of the bunch. FFVIII's ZOMG plot-twist is just that bad. Also, Cloud>Squall. At least Cloud struggled with something, unlike Squall. He was pretty much a jerkoff who realized that he had a penis, and then acted like a slavish zombie to try and make up for his previous jackassery.

Ceidwad
11-14-2006, 05:39 PM
I think you're off the mark about Squall. In fact, Squall struggles a lot with personal issues. He has one of the most complex personalities of any main character in the series. His upbringing in Garden has taught him one thing, yet his past and his insecurities tell him he wants to go another way. His relationship with Rinoa develops his character well in general, although I admit as with the general plot some of it was quite 'out there'. His encounter of Laguna in 'the dream world' also helps change his outlook as he comes to know of someone totally different to himself-a good samaritan who believes in helping others and also relying on their help. You get to read his thoughts a lot more than Cloud's and learn his past, and attitudes and changing attitudes towards others, on a greater scale than Cloud. Also, because there are fewer main characters in FFVIII Squall has more in-depth relationships with the others. With Cloud, his main relationships were with Tifa, Aeris and Sephiroth. There isn't a great deal to his relationships with Sephiroth and Aeris, although his relationship with Tifa ties in well with the plot and has much more meaning.

Above all though, I'd put Squall above Cloud in terms of main characters. It's just a shame that the other characters in FFVIII weren't very good.

manashima
11-15-2006, 01:26 AM
FFIV- It was the beggining of modern story telling in the FF series. Everything that happened, there was a reason for it.(unlike some other game, more on that later)Cecil also had great character developement. He was a good soul within a terrible profesion. He didnt want pleasure for himself cause of all of the death and hurt he caused. It wasnt untill he became a paladin when he felt at one with himself(lack of a better wording, its late). But enough about Cecil. The story itself is beautifal, yes it has its fetch missions, and rescue missons, but it balances itself out with a great Plot.


And for a Bash fest XD

FFVII-My main beef with FFVII's story is that it is a chase-fest. After Midgar, Shinra is ignored(even though the presidents son is till alive) and they chase after the man in the black cape. Everything up untill the reunion in disc two is all chase sephiroth. Everything else that happens is just a side track on the way to chasing sephiroth. The story was just....a real bad eay of portraying it. Was junon really needed? Gold Saucer, Nilbelheim ETC.

FFVIII- As previously said, the orphanage was total crap. Also for a story based on love, it was a really bad one. Squall and Rinoa didnt love eachother, Rinoa just had a crush, she based it on nothing else. What Squall not getting any of her advances made her instantly fall inlove with him...right. Squall didnt love Rinoa either, he loved the change in himself. Just cause he saved her a couple of times doesnt mean he loves her, I mean what traits did they show to eachother that made them fall inlove with eachother..that was such crap. It was more like a highschool love rather than real love.

Hex Omega
11-15-2006, 03:27 AM
I think you're off the mark about Squall. In fact, Squall struggles a lot with personal issues. He has one of the most complex personalities of any main character in the series. His upbringing in Garden has taught him one thing, yet his past and his insecurities tell him he wants to go another way. His relationship with Rinoa develops his character well in general, although I admit as with the general plot some of it was quite 'out there'. His encounter of Laguna in 'the dream world' also helps change his outlook as he comes to know of someone totally different to himself-a good samaritan who believes in helping others and also relying on their help. You get to read his thoughts a lot more than Cloud's and learn his past, and attitudes and changing attitudes towards others, on a greater scale than Cloud. Also, because there are fewer main characters in FFVIII Squall has more in-depth relationships with the others. With Cloud, his main relationships were with Tifa, Aeris and Sephiroth. There isn't a great deal to his relationships with Sephiroth and Aeris, although his relationship with Tifa ties in well with the plot and has much more meaning.

Above all though, I'd put Squall above Cloud in terms of main characters. It's just a shame that the other characters in FFVIII weren't very good.

Personally, I found Squall's 'change' forced and far too sudden. I personally think Squall is a very poor character. Stereotypical lone wolf. He's better the Cloud, but that really isn't saying much.

Psycho_Cyan
11-15-2006, 03:35 AM
In fact, Squall struggles a lot with personal issues.

Like...where, exactly? And what issues does he struggle with?


His relationship with Rinoa develops his character well in general, although I admit as with the general plot some of it was quite 'out there'.

Please tell me you're joking. Before she's put into her coma, there isn't a relationship. The only times she got a decent conversation out of him were either when he was pretty much forced to talk to her. It's only when she gets put in her coma that Squall suddenly says, "Hey, I have a penis," and starts acting like some stupid slavish zombie for her--apparently to make up for all his previous jackassery.


His encounter of Laguna in 'the dream world' also helps change his outlook as he comes to know of someone totally different to himself-a good samaritan who believes in helping others and also relying on their help.

Except for the minor detail that after each dream, Squall's taking shots at Laguna, usually of the "He's stupid" variety.


You get to read his thoughts a lot more than Cloud's


Yeah, you sure get a lot of insight into his character when you read "Whatever..." or some variation fifty fricking thousand times in a translucent text box. Besides, you shouldn't need a "thought box" every five seconds to glean insight into a character.


and learn his past, and attitudes and changing attitudes towards others, on a greater scale than Cloud

Uh...you eventually do learn Cloud's past, albeit in FFVII's convoluted fashion. What development Cloud has isn't about his attitude towards others, so Squall wins that non-contest by default. Squall's development is that of jerkoff to jerkoff with a hard-on and a girlfriend who wants him to play nicer.


Also, because there are fewer main characters in FFVIII Squall has more in-depth relationships with the others.

Wow. You're wrong again. What exactly is Squall's relationship to the other characters? His biggest scene with Quistis climaxes with him telling her to talk to a wall. Yeah, he's got a deep relationship with her. Selphie and Irvine don't really have any sort of relationship with Squall either--they're more or less tagalongs. He almost has a relationship with Zell, if only because he's just apathetic enough to not call him 'chicken-wuss' and Zell's just dense enough to keep talking to him. His only actual "relationship" is his rivalry with Seifer.

In conclusion, again. Cloud > Squall. The only thing Squall's got over Cloud is that Squall can Omnislash--err...Renzokuken more often than Cloud.

Ceidwad
11-15-2006, 07:41 AM
Like...where, exactly? And what issues does he struggle with?

As I pointed out, he struggles with his desire to be independent and strong yet his insecurities are constantly lingering in the back of his mind. He's annoyed that he had to rely on Ellone as a child and strives to become the opposite of that. I don't really feel the need to give you any specific instances here, as this theme is prevalent throughout the game.


Please tell me you're joking. Before she's put into her coma, there isn't a relationship. The only times she got a decent conversation out of him were either when he was pretty much forced to talk to her. It's only when she gets put in her coma that Squall suddenly says, "Hey, I have a penis," and starts acting like some stupid slavish zombie for her--apparently to make up for all his previous jackassery.

What you percieve as a non-relationship is just Squall's initial attitude towards Rinoa. At first, yes, he ignores her and patronises her, believing her to be merely a client, and not one that he sees eye to eye with either. But you can't deny that the relationship develops. A lot of people say the development is too sudden or forced-I agree to a point, but you also need to consider Squall's personality. He is reluctant to rely on others, even though he slowly realizes that he needs to, as the game progresses.


Except for the minor detail that after each dream, Squall's taking shots at Laguna, usually of the "He's stupid" variety.

That simply coincides with his attitudes in the first disc and early part of the story. You'll notice he actually takes Laguna, etc. a lot more seriously after encountering Ellone. Basically like his relationship with Rinoa.


Yeah, you sure get a lot of insight into his character when you read "Whatever..." or some variation fifty fricking thousand times in a translucent text box. Besides, you shouldn't need a "thought box" every five seconds to glean insight into a character.

Actually, that's wrong. There are several instances where Squall is alone when his thoughts run much deeper than simply 'Whatever'. You're being selective there, not subjective.


Wow. You're wrong again. What exactly is Squall's relationship to the other characters? His biggest scene with Quistis climaxes with him telling her to talk to a wall. Yeah, he's got a deep relationship with her. Selphie and Irvine don't really have any sort of relationship with Squall either--they're more or less tagalongs. He almost has a relationship with Zell, if only because he's just apathetic enough to not call him 'chicken-wuss' and Zell's just dense enough to keep talking to him. His only actual "relationship" is his rivalry with Seifer.

I can't argue with your comments about Irvine and Selphie, but he definitely has a relationship with Quistis. Admittedly, this is somewhat one-sided for most of the game, but that is down to Squall's inability to notice Quistis' feelings for him. He sees her as an instructor and nothing more. That is different than say Cloud's relationship with one of the fringe characters in FFVII. I mean take for example any character outside of the three I mentioned. He hardly says anything to them the whole game, nor does he reveal any feelings or opinions on them.


Personally, I found Squall's 'change' forced and far too sudden. I personally think Squall is a very poor character. Stereotypical lone wolf. He's better the Cloud, but that really isn't saying much.

I didn't say Squall was a brilliant character, just so you know. In my opinion there are many better than him in the series, but my point was merely that he was better than Cloud. So we're in agreement.

Psycho_Cyan
11-15-2006, 11:30 AM
As I pointed out, he struggles with his desire to be independent and strong yet his insecurities are constantly lingering in the back of his mind. He's annoyed that he had to rely on Ellone as a child and strives to become the opposite of that.

Okay, you totally botched that. He's a sullen, introverted jerkoff because he lost somebody he loved when he was little--namely Ellone. So he pushes everybody away so his poor wittle feelwings won't get hurt again. I do believe he explains that much in the game. The only time we're shown his insecurity is when he develops his emo streak after Cid inexplicably puts him in charge of the entire Garden.


I don't really feel the need to give you any specific instances here, as this theme is prevalent throughout the game.

Arrogant cop-out aside, to prove me wrong, you're going to have to provide specific instances.


What you percieve as a non-relationship is just Squall's initial attitude towards Rinoa. At first, yes, he ignores her and patronises her, believing her to be merely a client, and not one that he sees eye to eye with either. But you can't deny that the relationship develops.


LoL, his attitude doesn't slowly change. An hour before Rinoa gets put into her coma, Squall has to be told (several times) to go save Rinoa from a really gross death by splattering on the side of Garden. Do you call that "development?" By the way, even on the Ragnarok, after a death-defying spacewalk and fighting through those crazy monsters, Squall (who's SO in love at this point :rolleyes: ) pushes Rinoa away when she tries to engage in some teenage affection.


A lot of people say the development is too sudden or forced-I agree to a point, but you also need to consider Squall's personality. He is reluctant to rely on others, even though he slowly realizes that he needs to, as the game progresses.

Yeah, you're going to have to show me how he "slowly realizes" this. It's more like "it was beaten into his gourd for 25 hours by the rest of the party." Again, Squall goes from needing to be told several times to save Rinoa from a splattery death to trying to play romantic hero by carrying her over FH's bridge. The only plot advancement between those two events came at the end of your romp through Galbadia Garden.


Actually, that's wrong. There are several instances where Squall is alone when his thoughts run much deeper than simply 'Whatever'. You're being selective there, not subjective.

I'm going to have to spell this out for you, since you failed completely to get what I was saying. I never said that "Whatever" was the only thing he ever thought. My point was that in all honesty, nine times out of ten, when one of those irritating, translucent text boxes popped up, it had "Whatever..." or something along those lines. You see, what I did was called hyperbole. Also, the word you're looking for is objective.


I can't argue with your comments about Irvine and Selphie, but he definitely has a relationship with Quistis. Admittedly, this is somewhat one-sided for most of the game, but that is down to Squall's inability to notice Quistis' feelings for him. He sees her as an instructor and nothing more. That is different than say Cloud's relationship with one of the fringe characters in FFVII. I mean take for example any character outside of the three I mentioned. He hardly says anything to them the whole game, nor does he reveal any feelings or opinions on them.

This is so full of crap that I hardly know where to begin. Saying that Squall "sees her as an instructor and nothing more" is an admission that they don't have a relationship. So from there, claiming that it's different from Cloud is nonsense.

CorroDedSouL
11-15-2006, 02:29 PM
My favorite storyline was from FFIX. I liked the fact that it had actual Kingdoms that were affected by all the corresponding troubles: War,Mist,Monsters etc. I would have liked it more had there been more than 2 main kingdoms, Alexandria and Lindblum. It would have been nice to have one on the continent where the Iifa tree is. (Not sure the exact name, I think its Outer Continent?)

Chrissss
11-24-2006, 07:16 PM
I find VIIs story lacking,true,but I like the game noetheless. I will say this to defend it however:which FF story has had a better character than Barret,lol,for comic releif and entertainment value."Cetra?That some kinda disease?". and I dont care how old this is to you guys,but when I first played this game in 97 it was cool and almost shocking when Aerith died.the FFs after VII need something like this,but then theyd just be FF VII clones right?

IXs story was indeed the finest out of the FFs Ive played, and I see no point to make any arguments ,because no ones bashed this game yet,(and thats cause everyone here recognizes its the bestest.) and everything good to be said about it has more or less been said.

I dont know about Xs story...its hard to decide because I played it only once,but everything after the Zanarkand ruins seems to get to the end to fast,almost like they rushed the rest of the game.

VIII was enjoyable enough,but extremely mediocre.I think Id choose VII over VIII,because while your playing VII everything seems linear,sure, but theres at least a point.(saving the planet/revenge to saving the planet from the one you want revenge on) Playing VIII was strange because you just kinda seem to be wandering around the whole game then,oh look,theres the main villain/threat to the world right at the end. I wouldve liked a little more history on Ultimecia and the future she was running.I mean Ive played through VIII a few times but nothing interesting about anything in the middle of the game stands out in my mind.

(edit)excellent debate on VIII by the way,lol.

Psycho_Cyan
11-25-2006, 11:24 AM
I will say this to defend it however:which FF story has had a better character than Barret,lol,for comic releif and entertainment value."Cetra?That some kinda disease?".

Barret pales next to Gau/Sabin (Mr. Thou!) and half of FFIX's characters. Perhaps it's just me, but the whole Mr. T thing got old pretty quickly.

jewess crabcake
11-25-2006, 12:06 PM
This is fairly vague IMO.

In terms as the most appealing story:

VIII wins hands down. It had a lot of qualities of a good story, it was fantasy that just lightly holds onto a thread of realism. This was like the most developed love-appealing FF that I've played (I'm a sucker for a love story). With a tormented soul as a main character rather then some dumbfounded optimistic arse that lands into something he never intended for, and does his quest nonchalantly, with little or no thought. That plot twist... as half baked as it was, well it takes a true genious to do something that idiotic and somehow leave a trace of sense, Edea raises kids that she knows will end up together, because she know only they can kill her. The subtle hints that Gfs can erase your memories was the glue of that plot twist. Honestly the plot twist was good, execution was horrible, with Irvine like, "Hey you know we all grew up together right?" Possibly coming from Edea would have made it better. Also the story left way for a big discussion "Was Rinoa, Ultimecia?" which left you to think well after beating the game.

In terms of most developed:
FFX wins hands down. FFX appealed closest to real life. People getting together to fight fate. No longer letting their destiny be determined, but fighting for control of it. The fight against religion appealed really close to the world, religion was handed out half assedly hiding secrets people being led by rules because they fear the consequences. People all live for the same morals and there morals are a sham.The love story was everything it could be, there love never truely manifested first Yuna is about to give herself up for the sake of Spirak, and then they put an end to her having to die right before Tidus dies which was a funny kick in the ass in my opinion.

Chrissss
11-25-2006, 01:32 PM
Barret pales next to Gau/Sabin (Mr. Thou!) and half of FFIX's characters. Perhaps it's just me, but the whole Mr. T thing got old pretty quickly.

I might agree but I have never played previous FFs,so I dont know what theyre like.Ive had 5 and 6 sitting at my house for ages,havent got through them yet. I never really looked at Barret as Mr T,but thats a funny comparison that im not sure how I missed. I always thought he was funny cause of how stereotypical he is.I imagined the developers had this one image of african americans when they created Barret.

Psycho_Cyan
11-25-2006, 02:19 PM
VIII wins hands down. It had a lot of qualities of a good story, it was fantasy that just lightly holds onto a thread of realism. This was like the most developed love-appealing FF that I've played (I'm a sucker for a love story).

You'd almost have a point, except for a few facts: one, FFVIII wasn't fantasy at all--sure, there was "magic," but in all honesty, calling FFVIII "fantasy" stretches the definition. Two, the ZOMG love story sucked. If you'd read, I do believe I personally tackled that issue in this thread, or else at least in others.


With a tormented soul as a main character rather then some dumbfounded optimistic arse that lands into something he never intended for, and does his quest nonchalantly, with little or no thought.

Squall wasn't a "tormented soul." He was a selfish jerkoff--wait, I tackled that one, too.


That plot twist... as half baked as it was, well it takes a true genious to do something that idiotic and somehow leave a trace of sense, Edea raises kids that she knows will end up together, because she know only they can kill her.

Deus ex Machina is pretty much never genius. In fact, it's almost always bad. FFVIII had at least two major points with such flaws.


The subtle hints that Gfs can erase your memories was the glue of that plot twist. Honestly the plot twist was good, execution was horrible, with Irvine like, "Hey you know we all grew up together right?" Possibly coming from Edea would have made it better.

There weren't subtle hints, at all. Just one big, terrible "revelation." While the GF thing was an okay idea, what matters is execution, and you freely admitted it to be horrible. So really, you invalidated your entire "genius" point before I ever read this...anyway.


Also the story left way for a big discussion "Was Rinoa, Ultimecia?" which left you to think well after beating the game.

By "the story left way," you mean some half-baked attention-whore posted the rumor on the interweb some years back. This discussion's been done, too. Since this isn't the place for an R=U discussion, the Cliff's Notes is that the theory follows circular reasoning.

I admire your determination in defending a game you obviously have strong feelings for, but the honest truth is that it's nowhere near as good as you make it out to be.

jewess crabcake
11-25-2006, 02:46 PM
Two, the ZOMG love story sucked. If you'd read, I do believe I personally tackled that issue in this thread, or else at least in others. Now you are just lying, this was possibly the FF title that delved deepest into romance. The "selfish jerk-off" who has been hurt time and time again finally learns to love again, and goes to the ends of the earth to save the one he loves all the while learning a bit of sincerity. Now if you would have said that is the world's biggest cliche you'd have something there.


Squall wasn't a "tormented soul." He was a selfish jerkoff--wait, I tackled that one, too. Squall was a tormented sould his past pains and heartaches pushed him into being a loner. Growing up parentless, being put in an orphanage, the losing his closest if not only companion 'sis', pushed him into a well of desparity.

Deus ex Machina is pretty much never genius. In fact, it's almost always bad. FFVIII had at least two major points with such flaws. Yeah this was my bigest problem with the game but if that whole "you were destined to fight Edea/ really Ultimecia since you were kids" it could have been done much more creatively. Like Irvine just comes out of nowhere " you know we grew up together right?" and everybody's like "Woot no way!!!!...... oh yeeeeaaaaah *memories come rushing back*".My problem isn't the plot twist it's the execution really. When I played the game and got to that part I was like what that's complete nd utter bullshit, aside from that and the some of the battle mechanics, I loved FF8.

There weren't subtle hints, at all. Just one big, terrible "revelation." While the GF thing was an okay idea, what matters is execution, and you freely admitted it to be horrible. So really, you invalidated your entire "genius" point before I ever read this...anyway.
The execution is what made the twist suck so hard, I'm saying if they found that out some other way it could have been much better. I mean if God came out of the clouds and said, "You know you grew up together right?", and gave them memories I would have been much less confused.

By "the story left way," you mean some half-baked attention-whore posted the rumor on the interweb some years back. This discussion's been done, too. Since this isn't the place for an R=U discussion, the Cliff's Notes is that the theory follows circular reasoning. No I thought of that whole R=U thing much before I joined here because, if you really look at it Rinoa had no reason to be there, except for the beginning, with the timber owls/wolves. Other than tht she was tied to the story only by being horny for Squall, but the whole R=U theory was the only way she was really inclusive.

Psycho_Cyan
11-25-2006, 08:20 PM
Now you are just lying, this was possibly the FF title that delved deepest into romance. The "selfish jerk-off" who has been hurt time and time again finally learns to love again, and goes to the ends of the earth to save the one he loves all the while learning a bit of sincerity. Now if you would have said that is the world's biggest cliche you'd have something there.

I'm the one lying, when you're embellishing Squall's "sordid" past to the point of dishonesty? Ellone was taken by the white SeeD's, so Squallie's pissed off for life. Like I said in this very thread, the love story is horribly developed. Squall goes from needing to be told to rescue Rinoa from splattery death to slavish devotion in a little over an hour, depending on how fast you do the Galbadia Garden. Nostalgia is seriously kicking your butt, LR.


Squall was a tormented sould his past pains and heartaches pushed him into being a loner. Growing up parentless, being put in an orphanage, the losing his closest if not only companion 'sis', pushed him into a well of desparity.

The rest of the gang grew up parentless too, and they didn't wind up all screwed up like Squall. You're forgetting that Squall wasn't really an orphan, as well.


No I thought of that whole R=U thing much before I joined here because, if you really look at it Rinoa had no reason to be there, except for the beginning, with the timber owls/wolves. Other than tht she was tied to the story only by being horny for Squall, but the whole R=U theory was the only way she was really inclusive.

For starters, R=U didn't originate on FFS, so far as I know. Two, you were just bragging about FFVIII's ZOMG AWESOME love story, of which Rinoa is one of the principals. Anyway, I fail to see what a flawed theory has to do with a character's inclusion or lack thereof.

The Anti-Existence
11-25-2006, 08:46 PM
How does "fighting fate" apply to real life? Bored people on teh internet, philosophers and people that are high stop to think about "whoa...are we in charge of ourselves man? Or are we, like, actors in some giant play?" I mean, seriously. And "fighting religion" is an old and very common thing in RPGSs. The much better than FFX game known as Xenogears has that veyr underlying motive if you interpret it right. And, as I've written quite often ont his board, the Yevon religion wasn't good, but it was bad either. It was the best sort of dictatorship and order you could hope to have and after it was torn down, the world nearly went to war. Way to go, Yuna! You KILLEd SIN!! Now we'll all kill each other to make up for the population increase Sin kept in check!

And FFIX's romance was far more believable. The characters did not go "eh...whatever." for most of theri time together than go "I love you!!!!!"., They had to work and develop their connection to each other, discovering who they were themselves before an admission of love could be said.

Zulu
11-25-2006, 08:56 PM
I think it's a matter of preference. Personally, I enjoyed Final Fantasy IX the most storywise. It had it all: Medieval theme with knights, honour, princesses and everything a true medieval story should have. True, the story wasn't as dark as either that of Final Fantasy VII or FFX, but a story doesn't have to be dark and brooding in order to be good and captivating.

CarpeNoctumXIII
11-26-2006, 03:15 AM
My current favorites are FFXII, FFVIII, FFVI, and FFIX, in that order. I don't really care what people are saying about FFVIII's storyline, I still find it to be one of the best in the whole series. I liked Squall as a character too, a LOT more then Cloud anyways. Was his development perfect? Hell, was it really even good? Probably not, but I still liked him as a character, he just fell short of what I thought he could've been if his development of asshole to not-so-asshole was a little smoother. XII really captured me the right way. Sure, Panelo and Vaan sure seemed tacked on and had no real development, but that's the only thing I can really throw at the game. VI and IX represent everything I like in a more fantasy focused title. Not too complex and or wanna-be-complex-but-just-confusing, but they were both engaging.

I usually ignore the first three titles since they offer little in the ways of an actual plot. The "story" just felt like an excuse to throw you into the next dungeon, which was fine since I find them so much fun to play anyways. But boy, was I let down by the stories in VII and X. X fared a little better then VII, but VII has to be one of the most over-rated, if not THE most over-rated title in the series. And it also had one of the worst endings too, yyyuuuck. Feel free to disagree, but I probably won't "defend" myself at all, because I don't need to.

Psycho_Cyan
11-26-2006, 10:23 AM
Feel free to disagree, but I probably won't "defend" myself at all, because I don't need to.

Then what's the point in posting, unless you're just arrogant enough to think those of us who have more than six posts would care what an Onion Kid would have to say.


I don't really care what people are saying about FFVIII's storyline, I still find it to be one of the best in the whole series.

There's a serious problem with that statement. Namely, you're confusing "favorite" with "best."

CarpeNoctumXIII
11-26-2006, 11:12 AM
Then what's the point in posting, unless you're just arrogant enough to think those of us who have more than six posts would care what an Onion Kid would have to say.



There's a serious problem with that statement. Namely, you're confusing "favorite" with "best."

Very well, point taken on both accounts.

Synthia
12-05-2006, 04:01 PM
This is a great topic, I'd like to contribute

***SPOILERS for 4, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 and 12, don’t read past the score for each if you don’t wanna be spoiled***

4 - Story= 6/10 Character= 7/10.
Good story, not great. Some of the plot was non-sequitor (like the Moon wtf ???), but I loved many of the characters (Edge, Kain, Rydia), and the underworld subplots were great fun. Land of Summoned monsters ftw! The overall story arc with Kain's betrayal and Cecil and Golbez was well implemented.

5 - haven't finished it, won't comment on the story.

6 - Story = 10/10 Character = 7/10.
Story of this game was bar-none. I mean wow. That they actually let the villian WIN and DESTROY THE WORLD. I mean think about it. He probably killed like 1/3 of the world's population, toppled every nation you had learned about up to that point, and placed himself as supreme ruler of the world. The great thing is they did the whole thing without pulling any WTF? non-sequitors out of their hat like almost every other ff game. The first half with the esper angle was engrossing too. Story was SOLID, character was a bit lacking in comparison. There were just too many that got no more than cursory attention (Gau, Umaro, Mog, etc). Even more prominent characters get like 1 or 2 side plots and that’s it. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE Celes, Locke, Setzer, Cyan the whole bunch. Just saying that I feel they were trying to stretch themselves out too far having so many.

Tactics – never got into it…

7 - Story = 7/10 Character = 5/10
Solid game with a good story and sorta lame characters. I actually like the story of 7 fairly well. It kept me hooked throughout. I enjoyed Sephiroth as a villian simply because he was just scary. Kept the game exciting. But then there was the whole stupid thing with Cloud being some kind of weird Jenova-enhanced version of Zach or something? I don't even know. They pulled that out of nowhere, and it was almost completely irrelevant. They could have told the story without doing that nonsense so why even have it there? More interesting subplots (like Vincent's completely optional story) fleshed out the world. Character was generally weak. I didn't care about anyone, really.

8 - Story: 3/10 Character: 3/10
So, I never beat it myself, however, that was because the gameplay was stupid and broken and I just couldn't make myself go on. So I played roughly the first half then I read the story from transcript and watched the cutscenes. What I liked: The Laguna plot. This was neat, because it was NOT a holy-crap-where-did-that-come-from thing. They built up to Laguna and Squall being connected the entire game then they revealed it! Ok! That's good storytelling! Plus, Laguna was THE ONLY likable character. Period. Everyone else was an asshole (Squall) or a soulless airhead (Riona, Selphie, Zell, Irvine). As for the rest of the story, it was crap. Orphanage wtf? PLEASE. Also the fact that people like and trust Squall while all he's done is treat them like dirt? An uncharismatic loser like Squall would never be a leader. The "love story" aspect is apparently good if you like Squall and/or Riona but since I don't, well…

9 - Story: 5/10 Character: 7/10
Average. Story was meh. Overall it was not as gripping as ff7. Simply lacked any kind of suspense or excitement. I barely even remember what happened. And the ending was THE WORST non-sequitor in FF history. So Zidane is a manufactured cloned alien or something? Like with 7, they could have left this out and nothing would have changed. The redeeming grace was Alexander vs Bahamut! I think I almost peed my pants. This game was much stronger in character. Zidane! Finally, back to the happy-go-lucky thief instead of a Squoud (sp?)! Vivi was truly the cutest thing ever. I liked Steiner a lot, too. Garnet was pretty blah, and Eiko and Freya were never developed much, but still a strong cast, compared to 7 and 8 anyway.

10 - Story = 9/10 Character = 8/10
Definitely one of my favorites. The story of this game was phenomenal. It was epic, which I Iike. The story that is told is a good one and the most emotional FF experience. Finding out first that Yuna would DIE, and then that one of her companions would be turned into the next Sin?! Those are RELAVENT plot twists. I could have done without the Jeckt-is-Sin angle (kinda random), but it somehow wasn't annoying like in FF7-9. As for character, I liked everone very well. Tidus and Yuna were just fine, and the supporting cast with Auron, Lulu and Wakka were strong as well. They were well developed, and due to their strong ties to the lead characters, their involvement was important to the story, something lacking with other ff games' supporting cast.

10-2 - I'm not commenting here. Haven't played. HAVE gouged my eyes out at the prospect of playing, but haven't played.

11 - Story = 2/10 Character = 1/10 Yes, I have played nearly the entire plot of FF11, believe it or not (only a few cutscenes from the last expansion are left and that plot isn’t even completely implemented yet). The unavoidable truth: the vast majority of it is completely incomprehensible crap. The characters are all cardboard stereotypes and the plot makes no sense. Thankfully PLAYING the game is a lot of fun.

12 – Story = 9/10 Character = 10/10
I can’t believe I’m saying this, and it’s possible after the honeymoon period is over the scores might drop a bit but this game might just win. Story is exciting, epic, and lacks stupid crap that makes no sense. Ashe chooses whether to rule the world or save it (and because of how they created her character, there’s suspense about what’s gonna happen!). Meanwhile, the motives of the villains are slowly revealed and you realize maybe there aren’t any true villains... The plot with the Occuria (the most “out there” part) actually both made sense and was relevant to the story. On character, your party is fantastic. Ashe, Baltheir, and Basche, were all deep, EVOLVING characters. Their outlooks on each other, the world, etc changed throughout the game. These changes were relevant to their actions and hence the plot. THAT is development, not finding out your main char has amnesia. I was blown away by the supporting cast: Larsa, Cid, Vayne, Vossler, Gabranth and the other judges… the writers of this game were extremely thoughtful about everything they did. Details are important and they went all out.

Psycho_Cyan
12-06-2006, 01:14 PM
Just so you know, you have absolutely no credibility, as your "scoring" characters and/or story based solely upon your personal like/dislike of them, as opposed to any actual quality.