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Hex Omega
07-26-2006, 03:21 PM
Right, we had this before the hack, I want to bring it back as some of my choices have changed as I have replayed a few of the FF games. Bascially pick which FF you think is best/worst for each category.

Best FF: FFIX
Best male: Zidane
Best female: Terra
Best system(Materia, Junction etc): FFX-2
Best combat system: FFX-2
Best story: FFVI
Best music: FFIX
Best villian: Kefka
Best world map: FFVI
Best Airship: Invincible
Best NPC: General Leo
Best mini-game: Triple Triad


Worst FF: FFVIII
Worst male: Amarant
Worst female: Tifa
Worst system: FFVIII
Worst combat system: FFX
Worst story: FFVII/VIII
Worst music: None, each FF has some good music at least
Worst villian: Sephiroth
Worst world map: FFVII
Worst Airship: Ragnarok
Worst mini-game: Those silly mini-games at Gold Saucer

Feel free to add more if you wish.

ThroneofOminous
07-26-2006, 06:51 PM
Best FF: FFIX
Best male: Tidus
Best female: Celes
Best system(Materia, Junction etc): FFV
Best combat system: FFX-2
Best story: FFT
Best music: FFVIII
Best villian: Seymour
Best world map: FFIII
Best Airship: Invincible (original FFIII version)
Best NPC: Dorga
Best mini-game: Gunner’s Gauntlet


Worst FF: FFIV
Worst male: Brother
Worst female: Rosa
Worst system: FFIV
Worst combat system: FFIV
Worst story: FFVIII
Worst music: NA
Worst villian: Garland (FFI)
Worst world map: FFVII
Worst Airship: FFVII
Worst NPC: Allus
Worst mini-game: Chocobo Racing in FFX (or whatever name they gave it)

TeknoBlade
07-27-2006, 12:05 AM
Best FF: FFVI
Best male: Cecil
Best female: Celes
Best system (Materia, Junction etc): FFX-2
Best combat system: FFII
Best story: FFVI
Best music: FFVII
Best villian: Kefka
Best world map: FFVI
Best Airship: Highwind
Best NPC: Don Corneo
Best mini-game: Sphere Break
Best limit move: Great Gospel FFVII Aeris
Best looking weapon: Ultima Weapon FFIX Zidane



Worst FF: FFIX
Worst male: Vivi
Worst female: Quina
Worst system: FFVIII
Worst combat system: FFIX
Worst story: FF Legends
Worst music: FF Legends II
Worst villian: Necron
Worst world map: FFIV
Worst Airship: Ragnarok
Worst NPC: Diana (FFX-2)
Worst mini-game: Tetra Master
Worst limit move: Scoop Art FFIX Zidane
Worst looking weapon: Nail Bat FFVII Cloud

kurohime
07-27-2006, 04:05 AM
Hoboi... I think some of my choices have changed within the last few months...

Best FF: FFIX
Best male: Zidane (FFIX)
Best female: Celes (FFVI)
Best system (Materia, Junction etc): Class/Equipment/Ability stone (FFIX), with special mention to Runic/Class/Espter (FFVI)
Best combat system: FFIX
Best story: FFIX
Best music: FFIX, special mention to FFVI and FFX
Best villian: Kuja
Best world map: ??
Best Airship: Falcon (FFVI), special mention to Hilda Guarde (FFIX)
Best NPC: Ultros (does he count?)
Best mini-game: Chocobo Hot & Cold


Worst FF: ??
Worst male: Half the male cast of FFVIII
Worst female: Rinoa... XP
Worst system: FFII
Worst combat system: FFII
Worst story: ???
Worst music: I don't feel any love for FFXII
Worst villian: Seymour
Worst world map: ??
Worst Airship: ??
Worst mini-game: Chocobo Breeding. I hate it with a passion.

Alvinz
07-27-2006, 04:14 AM
Best FF: FFVIII
Best male: Squall
Best female: Rikku and Rinoa
Best system (Materia, Junction etc): FFvii junction ^^
Best combat system: FFVIII
Best story: FFVII
Best music: All have their moments
Best villian: SEphiroth, he actually killed someone o.o
Best world map: FFVIII
Best Airship: Ragnarok
Best NPC: Moogle
Best mini-game: Blitzball


Worst FF: FFXXXII
Worst male: Zidane. Stoopid monkey :)
Worst female: ^____^
Worst system: Er
Worst combat system: FFX
Worst story: >__<
Worst music: FF?
Worst villian: ^^
Worst world map:XD
Worst Airship: (_ _")
Worst mini-game: ^_______________X

Avinite
07-27-2006, 04:50 AM
Best FF: FFIX
Best male: Vivi
Best female: Freya
Best system(Materia, Junction etc): FFXII
Best combat system: FFX
Best story: FFIX
Best music: FFVII
Best villian: Kuja
Best world map: FFIX (I loved the Burmecia Lindblum Alexandria trio)
Best Airship: Invincible
Best NPC: Jecht
Best mini-game: Tetra Master


Worst FF: FFVIII
Worst male: Zell
Worst female: Leblanc
Worst system: FFVIII
Worst combat system: FFVIII
Worst story: FFVII/VIII
Worst music: None, each FF has some good music at least
Worst villian: Sephiroth (felt like he had been designed for cool value)
Worst world map: FFX (for not letting you travel it)
Worst Airship: The Blue Whale (thing from FFIV)
Worst mini-game: Those silly mini-games at Gold Saucer


I can't get 6 to work on emulator, when I do, I expect some of these will change.

ekinserge
07-27-2006, 08:02 AM
Best FF: FFVII, FFX, & FFXII
Best male: Vaan
Best female: Lulu
Best system:License Board
Best combat system: FFX-2
Best story: FFIX
Best music: FFX-2 and FFXII
Best villian: Sephiroth
Best world map: FFIX
Best Airship: None
Best NPC: None
Best mini-game: FFIX card game


Worst FF: None
Worst male: Zidane
Worst female: Selphie
Worst system: None
Worst combat system: None
Worst story: None
Worst music: None
Worst villian: Seymour
Worst world map: None
Worst Airship: None
Worst mini-game: Sphere Break

BizarroSephiroth
07-27-2006, 08:17 AM
Best FF: FF7
Best Male Charcter: Vincent
Best Female Character: Aeris
Best System: FF7 Materia
Best Combat System: FFX-2
Best Story: FF7
Best Music: FF7
Best Villain: Sephiroth
Best World Map: FF8
Best Airship: Ragnarok
Best NPC: Sephiroth
Best Mini-Game: FF7 Motorcycle Game

Worst FF: FFIX
Worst Male Character: Zidane
Worst Female: Quina
Worst System: FFX-2
Worst Combat System: FFIX
Worst Story: FFIX
Worst Music: FFIX
Worst Villian: Seifer
Worst World Map: FFIX
Worst NPC: Palmer
Worst Mini-Game: FF7 Mog Game

FF1WithAllThieves
07-27-2006, 10:31 AM
Best FF: FFVI
Best male: Edgar
Best female: Terra
Best system: FFI (NES) It was the only one that made the game challenging.
Best combat system: FFI (NES) Above reasons.
Best story: FFX
Best music: FFVI
Best villian: Kefka
Best world map: FFIX
Best Airship: Big Whale
Best NPC: Baku
Best mini-game: Chocobo Hot and Cold, followed closely by Triple Triad


Worst FF: FFVII/FFVIII
Worst male: Garland (FFI)
Worst female: Selphie
Worst system: FFVIII
Worst combat system: FFX
Worst story: FFVIII, only because of the orphanage.
Worst music: I'll have to give this award to the terrible midi quality in FFVII. The music itself is good, but the crappy midi quality detracts from it.
Worst villian: Seifer. He went down all four times in one physical attack. Died even before I could mug him.
Worst world map: FFX
Worst Airship: Hilda Garde II. Damn thing nearly killed half the party.
Worst mini-game: Mog House. All you do is give him kupo nuts until he cheers, and it takes way too fucking long to do that.

Desert Wolf
07-27-2006, 10:32 AM
Best FF: FF7/FFX
Best male: Zidane
Best female: Yuna
Best system(Materia, Junction etc): FF7
Best combat system: FF7/FFX
Best story: FFX/FF6
Best music: FF9/FFX
Best villian: Seymour
Best world map: FF9
Best Airship: Invincible
Best NPC: Beatrix
Best mini-game: Chocobo Hot and Cold


Worst FF: FF8
Worst male: Squall
Worst female: Selphie
Worst system: FF8
Worst combat system: FF9/FFX-2
Worst story: FFX-2/FF8
Worst music: Cant complain much about the music
Worst villian: Ultimecia
Worst world map:
Worst Airship: Well they all could fly and that what all I wanted them for.
Worst mini-game: That Mog game in FF7 definatly.

Denny
07-27-2006, 10:43 AM
Best FF: FF7/FFIX
Best male: Cid (FFVII)
Best female: Lulu (FFX)
Best system(Materia, Junction etc): FFVIII
Best combat system: FF7
Best story: FFIX/FF6
Best music: FF7/FFIX
Best villian: I`ll go for Sephiroth as most FF villiand didn`t impress me at all
Best world map: FF9
Best Airship: Highwind
Best NPC: O`aka (FFX)/Wedge and Biggs (FFVII)
Best mini-game: FFIX card game/FFVII Bike Game ;(


Worst FF: FF Adventure (GB)
Worst male: Tidus (FFX)
Worst female: Selphie (FFVIII)
Worst system: FFX
Worst combat system: FFX-2
Worst story: FFX-2 (The game isn`t bad but the story is.....)
Worst music: FF Adventure (GB)
Worst villian: Seymour
Worst world map: FFX (I was very very dissapointed by the "world map" in FFX)
Worst Airship: That chunk of cheese in FFX-2
Worst mini-game: Chocobo Hot & Cold (FFIX)

Ultimadream
08-03-2006, 12:12 PM
-

Prak
08-03-2006, 12:17 PM
Retarded fankid alert!

fastidious percolator
08-03-2006, 06:38 PM
It has changed since last time ^^"

Best FF: FFVI
Best male: Laguna
Best female: Relm
Best system(Materia, Junction etc): FFX
Best combat system: FFIX
Best story: FFIX
Best music: FFIII
Best villian: Kefka
Best world map: FFVI
Best Airship: Invincible
Best NPC: Cid (FFVI)
Best mini-game: Triple Triad


Worst FF: FFII
Worst male: Gau
Worst female: Selphie
Worst system: FFII
Worst combat system: FFX
Worst story: FFI
Worst villian: Seifer
Worst world map: FFV
Worst Airship: Celsius
Worst mini-game: Tetra Master

KATY FUCKING PERRY
08-03-2006, 07:10 PM
Best FF: FFVI
Best male: Vivi
Best female: ...Rydia (didn't see that one coming, huh?)
Best system: Job Changing
Best combat system: FFX-2
Best story: FFVII
Best music: FFX
Best villian: Kefka
Best world map: FFVI
Best Airship: I dunno, I like the way FF XII's airship looks...
Best NPC: General Leo
Best mini-game: Blitzball (Ashamed to admit it, too :S)


Worst FF: FFII
Worst male: Sephiroth
Worst female: Maria
Worst system: FFIX's Itempalooza
Worst combat system: FFII
Worst story: FFI
Worst music: FFII
Worst villian: Necron
Worst world map: FFIIIj
Worst Airship: All airships from FFIIIj are -awful-!
Worst NPC: General Beatrix
Worst mini-game: FF X-2's Calm Lands minigame suite

Silfurabbit
08-03-2006, 09:00 PM
From what I've played:
Best FF: FFVIII
Best male: Sephiroth
Best female: Rikku or Yuna
Best system(Materia, Junction etc): FFVIII
Best combat system: FFVIII
Best story: FFVII
Best music: FFVIII
Best villian: Sephiroth
Best world map:Don't know
Best Airship: Ragnarok
Best NPC: A Mog
Best mini-game: FFVIII Card Game

jewess crabcake
08-04-2006, 12:52 PM
Best FF: FFVIII
Best Male: Seifer/Laguna
Best Female: Rinoa
Best Sytem: Junction
Best Story FFVIII
Best Music: FF VIII
Best Villian Seymour
Best world map: FFVIII(because, most porportional, not just walk on certain tile but there's an actual entrance.)
Best airship: Ragnarok Best Detail and design and drivable.
Best NPC: Chocobo
Best mini-game: Triple Trial

Worst FF:1-4
Worst male: Cloud
Worst Female: Yuna
Worst system : Proffesion locked(only one base profession)
Worst Combat: FFIV
Wost Villian:???
Worst world map FFIV (Every entrance was only on spot long you could stand on the castle)
Worst Airship: FFIV looked like a flying pirateship
Worst NPC Turks
Worst mini-game chocobo racing.

Swedish Fish
08-04-2006, 06:32 PM
Best FF: FFVI
Best male: Zidane/Vivi
Best female: Celes
Best system(Materia, Junction etc): FFX-2
Best combat system: FFX-2
Best story: FFVI
Best music: FFIX
Best villian: Kefka
Best world map: FFVI
Best Airship: Hilda Garde III
Best NPC: General Leo
Best mini-game: Chocobo Hot & Cold

Worst FF: FFVII
Worst male: Vincent
Worst female: Tifa
Worst system: FFVII
Worst combat system: FFX
Worst story: FFVII/VIII
Worst music: FFV
Worst villian: Yu Yevon
Worst world map: FFX
Worst Airship: Celsius
Worst mini-game: The mini-game where Yuna runs across the screen blasting off her guns

Black Paladin
08-04-2006, 06:44 PM
Did no-one enjoy FFtactics?

Durahan7777
08-04-2006, 07:25 PM
Best FF: FFVII
Best male: Laguna
Best female: Yuffie
Best system: FFTA
Best combat system: FFT+FFTA
Best story: FFVII
Best music: FFVII
Best villian: Golbeze
Best world map: FFVIII
Best Airship: Highwind
Best NPC: Gilgamesh(both FF5 and 9)
Best mini-game: Wonder catcher^^

Worst FF: FF Legends 1-3
Worst male: Edward
Worst female: Relm
Worst system: FFI
Worst combat system: cant say....
Worst story: FFI
Worst music: Not at all
Worst villian: Necron
Worst world map: FFV
Worst Airship: All airships are good
Worst mini-game: I love mini games

tifa666
08-05-2006, 04:09 AM
Best FF: FF6
Best Male: Cloud
Best Female: Celes/ tifa (too hard to choose)
Best Sytem: materia or espers
Best Story FFVII
Best Music: FFVII
Best Villian Sephiroth
Best world map: FFVII
Best airship: Cid's ship
Best NPC: General Leo
Best mini-game: digging in bikneal desert (FFX-2)

Worst FF:FFX
Worst male: Wakka
Worst Female: Rikku (in FFX)
Worst system : sphere grid
Worst Combat: FFII
Wost Villian:Kuja
Worst world map: FFI
Worst Airship: FFVIII
Worst NPC: Chocobo
Worst mini-game: cards.
__________________

Vasquez
08-05-2006, 06:35 AM
Best FF: 7
Best male:Vicent
Best female:Garnet
Best system:Draw
Best story: 7
Best music:10
Best villian:Seymour
Best map:8
Best airship:Highwind
Bestn npc:Rufus
Best mini-game:Snowboarding

Worst FF:10 (Cause the ending blows)
Worst male:Zell
Worst female:Queen Brahan
Worst system:Dresssphere
Worst story:10
Worst music:8
Worst villan:Sephiroth
Worst map: X-2
Worst ship: Balmb Garden
worst npc:Heddgar
Worst mini-game:Blitzball

Starscream
08-06-2006, 11:14 AM
Best FF: FFVI
Best male: Edgar or Locke or Auron
Best female: Terra or Celes
Best system: FFX-2
Best combat system: FFX-2
Best story: FFVI
Best music: FFVIII
Best villian: Kefka
Best world map: FFVI
Best Airship: Invincible
Best NPC: General Leo
Best mini-game: Triple Triad

Worst FF: FFVII/VIII
Worst male: Cloud or Barret or Squall
Worst female: Tifa
Worst system: FFVIII
Worst combat system: FFX
Worst story: FFVII
Worst music: Can't say
Worst villian: Sephiroth
Worst world map: FFVII
Worst Airship: Not sure
Worst mini-game: Not too sure either

RunawayNeos
09-18-2006, 05:58 PM
omg Sephiroth actually killed someone...no villain has ever done anything like that before. I mean I can't think of a single villain who's done anything like poison a castle, kill an emperor, kill the strongest general in the world, destroy the world, enslave three goddesses, destroy villages just for the sake of destroying them...I've given away my answer by now I'm sure.

Best FF: VI
Best Male: Delita
Best Female: Terra
Best Story: Tactics or VI...
Best Music: I think VI again, VIII had Maybe I'm a Lion though...lol
Best Villain: Kefka (omg he killed someone too!)
Best NPC: Delita

Worst FF: V (Minus Gilgamesh...he ruled)
Worst Male: Cait Sith
Worst Female: Tifa
Worst Villain: Sephiroth is overrated, but he's not the worst...

Psycho_Cyan
09-18-2006, 09:21 PM
Welcome to FFS. Despite the necropost, your sarcasm is quite appreciated. Please continue!

edit: I wasn't being sarcastic.

ROKI
09-18-2006, 09:39 PM
That was funny :D


Heres mine

Best FF: FF6/FFIX
Best male: Zidane
Best female: Terra
Best system(Materia, Junction etc): FF9/6
Best story: FF6
Best music: All were great
Best villian: Kefka
Best world map: FF9
Best Airship: Theater Ship
Best NPC: General Leo/Beatrix
Best mini-game: Chocobo Cold and Gold


Worst FF: Cant put one to be the worst (as some are failure in some parts but suceed in others)
Worst male: Barret
Worst female:
Worst system: FFX
Worst story: FF7
Worst music: FF Adventure (GB)
Worst villian: That octapus thing in ff6
Worst world map: FFX (I was very very dissapointed by the "world map" in FFX)
Worst Airship: FFX/X-2. Too techological for me :-P
Worst mini-game: The dance minigame in 7

Mr.Hazard
09-18-2006, 11:13 PM
Best FF: FFVI + FFIX + FFX
Best male: Zidane
Best female: Celes
Best system(Materia, Junction etc): FFX
Best combat system: FFX
Best story: FFX
Best music: FFII
Best villian: Kefka
Best world map: FFII
Best Airship: Ragnarok (FFVIII)
Best NPC: General Leo
Best mini-game: Triple Triad


Worst FF: FFIV
Worst male: Brother
Worst female: Yuna
Worst system: FFX-2
Worst combat system: FFI
Worst story: FFI
Worst music: FFIV
Worst villian: Sephiroth
Worst world map: FFVII
Worst Airship: ?
Worst NPC: ?
Worst mini-game: That virtual fighter thingiaz in FFVII

Yui
09-20-2006, 06:02 PM
Best FF: X, VIII, and VI in my opinion
Best male: Uhh... Tidus and Locke
Best female: Yuna, Rinoa, and Celes(because she is pretty)
Best system(Materia, Junction etc): FFX
Best combat system: FFX
Best story: FFX
Best music: FFVIII
Best villian: Uh... Kefka
Best world map: FFVI
Best Airship: Ragnarok... and the airship in FFX
Best NPC: Cid in FFX
Best mini-game: Blitzball


Worst FF: FFVII
Worst male: Cloud
Worst female: Tifa
Worst system: FFVII
Worst combat system: FFVII
Worst story: FFVII
Worst music: None, each FF has some good music at least
Worst villian: Sephiroth
Worst world map: FFVII
Worst Airship: I don't know
Worst mini-game: Those silly mini-games at Gold Saucer

Oh man. THAT TOOK ME AN HOUR.

Psycho_Cyan
09-21-2006, 10:40 AM
Just because I'm an opinionated SOB.

Best FF: FFIX
Best male: tie: Zidane and Locke
Best female: another tie: Celes and Terra
Best system(Materia, Junction etc): FFVI
Best story: FFIX
Best music: tie: FFVI and FFIX
Best villian: Kefka
Best world map: FFVI
Best Airship: The Falcon.
Best NPC: Biggs/Wedge
Best mini-game: tie: Triple Triad and Chocobo Hot & Cold

Worst FF: FFVIII
Worst male: Cloud
Worst female: Rinoa
Worst system: FFVIII
Worst story: FFVIII
Worst music: FFV
Worst villian: Sephiroth
Worst world map: FFX
Worst Airship: Ragnarok--Deus ex Machina just doesn't do it for me.
Worst NPC: Headmaster Cid
Worst mini-game: the Gold Saucer, Battle Square excepted.

DarkLadyNyara
09-21-2006, 10:37 PM
Best FF: FFIX
Best male: Zidane
Best female: <S>Kuja </S> Freya
Best system(Materia, Junction etc): Toss-up between FFIX and FFII
Best combat system: FFII
Best story: FFIX
Best music: All of them were good.
Best villian: *points to avatar* Also, Kuja
Best world map: FFII
Best Airship: Invincible (Airship O' Doom)
Best NPC: Paul, FFII
Best mini-game: Chocobo Hot and Cold


Worst FF: FFVIII
Worst male: Leon (FFII)
Worst female: Rinoa
Worst system: FFVIII
Worst combat system:
Worst story: FFI (Not its fault) and VIII (So much wasted potential)
Worst music: N/A
Worst villian: Bhrane. "Oh, she had a pure heart". Bullshit.
Worst world map: FFVIII
Worst Airship: Balamb Garden
Worst mini-game: Triple Triad

J. Peterman
09-22-2006, 12:07 AM
Best FF: Suikoden II
Best male: Luc
Best female: Lyon
Best system: Suikoden V
Best story: Suikoden V (II was really good too, but this is just a personal preference)
Best music: Suikoden II
Best villian: Luca Blight
Best world map: Suikoden V
Best Ship: Suikoden V
Best NPC: Leknaat
Best mini-game: Suikoden II Cooking Battles

Worst FF: Suikoden IV
Worst male: Euram Barows
Worst female: Yoshino (I never really liked her character to be quite honest)
Worst system: Suikoden IV
Worst story: Suikoden IV
Worst music: Suikoden IV
Worst villian: Whatever the heck was up with Suikoden IV/Tactics. Seriously, that wasn't a good explanation at all about that Rune Cannons and all that. I mean, that was messed up and really they should've been use in the future stupid people in Konami that head guy leaves and they produce this junk but the come back with Suikoden V which is definitely one of the best games I've ever played so I know they haven't lost it I'm still waiting for Harmonia to be in Suikoden because I think that's going to be awesome finally you get to see the bearer of the Circle Rune but that's probably going to be like ten years from now or something.
Worst world map: Suikoden IV
Worst Ship: Suikoden IV (SERIOUSLY I HATE THE SAILING)
Worst NPC: Yohn [FOR BEING A PART OF SUIKODEN TACTICS STUPID WHATEVER]
Worst mini-game: Probably that flower planting one in II and whatever else it was in. Probably.

Magneto42
09-22-2006, 07:50 AM
Best FF: FFVII
Best male: Squall
Best female: Yuna
Best system(Materia, Junction etc): FFVII- Materia
Best combat system: FFIX
Best story: FFVIII
Best music: FFX
Best villian: Sephiroth
Best world map: FFIX
Best Airship: Ragnarok
Best NPC: Beatrix- kinda
Best mini-game: Blitzball (FFX)


Worst FF: FFV
Worst male: Wakka
Worst female: Rikku
Worst system: FFVIII
Worst combat system: FFVIII
Worst story: FFIX
Worst music: Maybe FFVIII
Worst villian: Seymour
Worst world map: FFVIII
Worst Airship: Hilda Garde 3?
Worst mini-game: Card game from FFVIII

Irvybabe
09-22-2006, 11:53 AM
Best FF: FFVIII
Best male: Laguna
Best female: Selphie
Best system: FFVIII Junction system
Best combat system: FFX (wait)
Best story: FFVIII
Best music: FFX
Best villian: Sephiroth
Best world map: FFX
Best Airship: Ragnarok
Best mini-game: Den Of Woe and Cinema FFX-2


Worst FF: FFVI
Worst male: Kinoc
Worst female: Rinoa
Worst system: FFVII confusing
Worst combat system: FFVI
Worst story: FFXI
Worst music: FFIX
Worst villian: Seifer
Worst world map: FFVIII
Worst Airship:... I dunno
Worst mini-game: Triple Triad

Magneto42
09-22-2006, 11:58 AM
I thought the Worst World Map one was interesting so I looked at them and found only Irvybabe, DarkLadyNyara and myself put FFVIII.
Surprised me, I thought most would put it.

Decaff_Wyvern
09-22-2006, 03:42 PM
Best Male: Squall (FF8)
Best Female: Tifa (FF7)
Best Story: FF8
Best Music: FF6
Best Battle System: FF10-2
Best Villain: Kefka (FF6)
Best Airship: Ragnarok (FF8)
Best World Map: FF7
Best FF Game: FF8

Worst Male: Cloud or Tidus(FF7/FF10)
Worst Female: Paine (FF10-2)
Worst Story: FF10
Worst Music: FF8
Worst Battle System: FF9
Worst Villain: Sephiroth
Worst Airship: The one from FF10-2 (I can't remember it's name)
Worst World Map: FF10-2
Worst FF Game: FF7/FF10-2

Grim062000
09-22-2006, 09:38 PM
Best FF: FFVII
Best male: Cloud
Best female: Tifa
Best system(Materia, Junction etc): FFX
Best combat system: FFX
Best story: FFVII
Best music: FFVII
Best villian: Sephiroth
Best world map: FFVII
Best Airship: Highwind
Best NPC: Don Corneo
Best mini-game: Chocobo Breeding


Worst FF: FFI
Worst male: Irvine
Worst female: Selphie
Worst system: FFI
Worst combat system: FFI
Worst story: FFI
Worst music: FFI
Worst villian: Seymour
Worst world map: FFI
Worst Airship: Whatever gay ass ship you had in FFI
Worst mini-game: The card game in FFVIII

Psycho_Cyan
09-23-2006, 01:10 PM
Surprised me, I thought most would put it.

Why is that? FFX loses by default--it hasn't got a true 'world map.'

Magneto42
09-23-2006, 01:15 PM
I thought FF8's map was the most difficult to get around. Annoying as hell.
With that big bridge across the middle of the ocean and Esther not even accessable by *Garden*. It all felt constricting.

Psycho_Cyan
09-23-2006, 01:18 PM
With that big bridge across the middle of the ocean and Esther not even accessable by *Garden*. It all felt constricting.

Seeing as you're not *supposed* to get to Esthar until late in the game...? As much as I tend to hate on FFVIII, its world map is one of its better points--it rewards exploration, while keeping you out of places you just aren't supposed to be yet.

Prak
09-23-2006, 01:28 PM
Why is that? FFX loses by default--it hasn't got a true 'world map.'

Of course, by this standard, I wouldn't even count FFX as having a world map, so I wouldn't consider listing it.

I'd actually say the worst was from FFVII because of the number of places hidden in it that pretty much no one would find without having a walkthrough handy. Seriously, who is going to stumble across Lucrecia's cave without any idea that it's even there or where to look for it? Who would find an unmarked island in the middle of the ocean to claim an overpowered materia? It was blatantly designed to make people buy the guide along with it, so it was the worst.

Magneto42
09-23-2006, 01:28 PM
Well I didnt feel restricted by any other maps so I put 8.
And I think FF10 deserves an honourable mention as second best map on my list. The graphics were outstanding and the little touches like the cloud movement and grass swaying.

Magneto42
09-23-2006, 01:30 PM
Of course, by this standard, I wouldn't even count FFX as having a world map, so I wouldn't consider listing it.

I'd actually say the worst was from FFVII because of the number of places hidden in it that pretty much no one would find without having a walkthrough handy. Seriously, who is going to stumble across Lucrecia's cave without any idea that it's even there or where to look for it? Who would find an unmarked island in the middle of the ocean to claim an overpowered materia? It was blatantly designed to make people buy the guide along with it, so it was the worst.

I found Lucrecias cave by simple exploration. Either that or I got lost. lol
Though I had no idea what the cave was there for cause Vincent wasnt with me.

Also sorry for dp.

Psycho_Cyan
09-23-2006, 01:37 PM
Of course, by this standard, I wouldn't even count FFX as having a world map, so I wouldn't consider listing it.

Perhaps FFVII and VIII bashing just got old for me? :-D

jewess crabcake
09-23-2006, 05:01 PM
I thought the Worst World Map one was interesting so I looked at them and found only Irvybabe, DarkLadyNyara and myself put FFVIII.
Surprised me, I thought most would put it.That's because 8 had one of the best world maps, 8 was actually drawn to scale (somewhat) most of the prior FFs had the screen character as tall and wide as a CASTLE. FF8's world map did have it's faults, if you got off the garden, got on a chocobo, cross some narrow strips of land, and got off the chocobo if you didn't know where you were going there was very little chance you could get back to the garden, and some places you couldn't get back at all.

noblearrogant
09-24-2006, 04:47 AM
Best FF:VI (gotta be honest)
Best male:Squall (anti-social)
Best female:Terra (meh)
Best system:IX (yay for skills)
Best combat system:VII (love the limits)
Best story:VII (c'mon...)
Best music:VIII
Best villain:Kefka (he actually did some evil things)
Best world map:VII (shrug)
Best airship:VI (forgot the name)
Best NPC:Reno
Best mini-game:Snowboard arcade

Worst FF:X (yes)
Worst male:tie between Wakka and Tidus
Worst female: Dagger
Worst system:FVIII (sorry)
Worst combat system:FVIII
Worst story:X
Worst music:I
Worst villain:Sin/Jecht/Yu Yevon (seriously)
Worst world map:X
Worst airship:X
Worst NPC:the chocobo knights (...)
Worst mini-game:the moogle one from VII

Starscream
09-26-2006, 06:52 AM
Best villian: Sephiroth




Best villian: Sephiroth




Best villian: Sephiroth

LOL

Grim062000
09-26-2006, 08:20 AM
LOL

Whats so funny? Sephiroth in my opinion IS the best villian. He was crazy, wanted to destroy the entire human race so he could be a god, and he looked fuckin bad ass!

Magneto42
09-26-2006, 08:25 AM
The only one that gets near Sephiroth is Kefka. But even then he loses points for being annoying, with his laugh and ugliness.
It all comes down to sex appeal.

Prak
09-26-2006, 08:25 AM
But Kefka was crazier, destroyed the world, and actually became a god. Kuja did almost as well. How does Sephiroth even begin to compare to that?

Magneto42
09-26-2006, 08:28 AM
Yeah Kefka is better in that regard but I was just judging on coolness as in looks. The obedient samurai turned bad does it for me everytime...

Prak
09-26-2006, 08:31 AM
Aesthetics can hardly be considered a qualification for being an excellent villain though.

Magneto42
09-26-2006, 08:33 AM
In my books they can. Why do you not like Sephiroth?

Grim062000
09-26-2006, 08:41 AM
To be honest, I hardly played FFVI. I seen Kefka, he just rode around, and did his stupid laugh. From what I know, Sephiroth kicks too much ass. Also, Sephiroth was pretty damn close to becoming a god, meteor was right at the planet, and holy was too late. The only thing that really saved the planet, was the planet itself.

Psycho_Cyan
09-26-2006, 08:42 AM
Perhaps because Kuja and Kefka were actually good villains? Seriously, what did Sephy do that Kuja and/or Kefka didn't trump?

Prak
09-26-2006, 08:42 AM
Magneto42, I'm afraid your books are doomed to collect dust on shelves forever. A villain is defined by his/her deeds, not looks. Looks don't make them more powerful, conniving, intelligent, ambitious, or anything else.

When you get right down to it, Sephiroth did everything half-heartedly and was just about impossible to take seriously. He was a non-entity for most of the game, and when you did see him, he was some whiny prick with a mother complex and a penchant for spouting poorly written dialogue.

Grim062000
09-26-2006, 08:43 AM
Magneto42, I'm afraid your books are doomed to collect dust on shelves forever. A villain is defined by his/her deeds, not looks. Looks don't make them more powerful, conniving, intelligent, ambitious, or anything else.

When you get right down to it, Sephiroth did everything half-heartedly and was just about impossible to take seriously. He was a non-entity for most of the game, and when you did see him, he was some whiny prick with a mother complex and a penchant for spouting poorly written dialogue.

Well, thats why this is your opinion, and not fact.

Prak
09-26-2006, 08:45 AM
Show me how that is not fact.

Irvybabe
09-26-2006, 08:47 AM
I thought FF8's map was the most difficult to get around. Annoying as hell.
With that big bridge across the middle of the ocean and Esther not even accessable by *Garden*. It all felt constricting.

Exactly, Fishermens horizon got on my nerves when i was trying to get to say Balamb but i was on the wrong side or when i was trying to get to FH with the Garden but had to go all the way around, and plus finding The Battle... (something) island in the middle of the ocean was F-ing annoying.

And here goes opinion crazy Prak, always trying to distinguishh the unnecissary.
Jeezus, someone has nothing else better to do.

Magneto42
09-26-2006, 08:53 AM
Prak, I didnt ask you to follow my books. Like I said before, Kefka has alot on Sephiroth as far as accomplishments go.
I liked how Sephiroth was so cold hearted when Aeris died, despite it being a tragedy. It made me find him more evil.
I found Kefka to just be clinically insane. Whereas Sephiroth felt it was his duty to destroy the world based on his "heritage".

Psycho_Cyan
09-26-2006, 08:59 AM
Like I said before, Kefka has alot on Sephiroth as far as accomplishments go.

I get it. You like Sephy because of his ZOMG KOOLZ SORD!!11!11!


And here goes opinion crazy Prak, always trying to distinguishh the unnecissary.
Jeezus, someone has nothing else better to do.

And you, apparently, have nothing better to do than to whine about what you deem so unnecessary.

Prak
09-26-2006, 09:03 AM
But if you liked Sephiroth for being cold-hearted about Aeris's death, it's pretty much obligatory to hold Kefka up a step higher, considering that he poisoned an entire town for no reason other than to watch people die. Then there was his Ray of Judgement...

If you honestly think Sephiroth, who was basically just trying to do what his mommy told him to do, was more evil than Kefka, you seriously need your head examined.

Irvybabe
09-26-2006, 09:07 AM
And you, apparently, have nothing better to do than to whine about what you deem so unnecessary.

Well duh...
That's why i'm here, i obviously have nothing better to do than this forum.
Jeezus, now you're being nitpicky about stupid things, i was only half serious about my post, i've come to accept that no matter what Prak has to have reason and clarity for each thread, in order for him to be happy. And i just like pointing things out that wil annoy him, as i'm allowed to do.
So STFU :-P
Lol at the spelling thing though, i sure did forget how to spell it.

Magneto42
09-26-2006, 09:08 AM
Once again, I didnt base my choice on whos more evil and who gets the job done.
I based it on who I liked more and thought was more "ZOMG KOOL" to quote CyanCyde.

Grim062000
09-26-2006, 04:40 PM
Show me how that is not fact.

You say he was a whiny prick. Thats your opinion. I think he was a super-SOLDIER who found out the truth about himself.

noblearrogant
09-26-2006, 05:48 PM
Fuck Sephirtoh

Grim062000
09-26-2006, 07:56 PM
Fuck Sephirtoh

Another opinion.

Psycho_Cyan
09-27-2006, 01:36 AM
You say he was a whiny prick. Thats your opinion. I think he was a super-SOLDIER who found out the truth about himself.

Except for the facts that he did whine quite a bit and he did have a mother complex. He was also talked about more than he was actually present in the game. Way to ignore the facts presented for two words that can easily be construed as opinion.

noblearrogant
09-27-2006, 03:18 AM
Another opinion.

Haha actually,i like Sephiroth,i was just trying to make you fanboys cry

Grim062000
09-27-2006, 08:36 AM
Except for the facts that he did whine quite a bit and he did have a mother complex. He was also talked about more than he was actually present in the game. Way to ignore the facts presented for two words that can easily be construed as opinion.

Those two words are opinion. Its your OPINION that he has a mother complex. It never says he does in the game, you just ASSUME. Whiny is an opinion. "I think he's whiny" Is an opinion, other people might not think that way.

Way to try and sound smart, dont get me started on you too.

Psycho_Cyan
09-27-2006, 09:43 AM
Those two words are opinion. Its your OPINION that he has a mother complex. It never says he does in the game, you just ASSUME. Whiny is an opinion. "I think he's whiny" Is an opinion, other people might not think that way.

Well it is a fact that Sephy did a bit of whining--I'm sorry if that comes into conflict with your worship of him, but if somebody whines, are they not whiny? It's also a fact that Sephy was rather obsessed with his mother--If that isn't a mother complex, O omniscient one, then just what is it?


Way to try and sound smart, dont get me started on you too.

What are you going to do? Bore me with your opinion-equivalency crap and argue non-issues until I finally get sick of you and ignore you? Somehow, I'm not frightened.

jewess crabcake
09-27-2006, 09:52 AM
best villain: seymour,
who doesnt like an emo cunt who constantly uses his mother in battle?

Oh... dear.... GAWD!!! Seymour= cooler sephiroth.

Grim062000
09-27-2006, 10:17 AM
Well it is a fact that Sephy did a bit of whining--I'm sorry if that comes into conflict with your worship of him, but if somebody whines, are they not whiny? It's also a fact that Sephy was rather obsessed with his mother--If that isn't a mother complex, O omniscient one, then just what is it?



What are you going to do? Bore me with your opinion-equivalency crap and argue non-issues until I finally get sick of you and ignore you? Somehow, I'm not frightened.

No, I dont worship any video game character. Sephiroth wasnt whiny. THATS MY OPINION. YOUR opinion, says he was.

~"In my veins courses the blood of the ancients... I am one of the rightful heirs to this planet!"

~"You are just a puppet... You have no heart... and cannot feel any pain."

Doesnt sound whiny to me. If you were him, and you found out you were created you would go crazy too. That is essentially what he did. That is why he always refers to his "mother" (which isnt his real mother) because he was injected with her cells.

Psycho_Cyan
09-27-2006, 12:34 PM
No, I dont worship any video game character. Sephiroth wasnt whiny. THATS MY OPINION. YOUR opinion, says he was.

This 'it's-my-opinion-so-you-can't-say-anything-about-it' crap is incredibly retarded. The fact is, there is correct and incorrect in this world, whether you like it or not. The fact is, this crap absolutely kills intelligent, relevant discussion--instead of discussing pros and cons, which was the original purpose, you've mired us in this garbage. If you would just stop this crap and actually defend YOUR OPINIONS, hey presto, we'd have a nice discussion/debate.

Desert Wolf
09-27-2006, 03:47 PM
Can you direct me to these so called "whiny" lines please CyanCyde?

Swedish Fish
09-27-2006, 04:34 PM
Let it go Cyan. He's not worth the time or effort. And just for the record Kefka>Kuja>X-Death>Yu Yevon>*insert pretty bad villain*>Palmer>Sephiroth.

Grim062000
09-27-2006, 06:49 PM
This 'it's-my-opinion-so-you-can't-say-anything-about-it' crap is incredibly retarded. The fact is, there is correct and incorrect in this world, whether you like it or not. The fact is, this crap absolutely kills intelligent, relevant discussion--instead of discussing pros and cons, which was the original purpose, you've mired us in this garbage. If you would just stop this crap and actually defend YOUR OPINIONS, hey presto, we'd have a nice discussion/debate.

The <b> FACT </b> is that fact and opinion are two VERY different things, and OPINIONS cannot be wrong, BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT A PERSON BELIEVES IN. Unless you can go into their brain, and force them to believe what you do. Im not trying to debate anything. You CANNOT confuse fact with opinion.

And Sephiroth doesnt have whiny lines. If you find any, those would be your OPINION.

Blameless
09-27-2006, 07:46 PM
Everything is relative.

noblearrogant
09-27-2006, 11:15 PM
Everything is relative.

Except that Sephiroth isn't the best villain on the FF series

Transcendentalist
09-28-2006, 12:48 AM
Best FF: FF7/FFX
Best male: Vincent
Best female: Tifa
Best system(Materia, Junction etc): FF7
Best combat system: ATB (Various FF's)
Best story: IX
Best music: All
Best villian: Sephiroth
Best world map: FFVIII
Best Airship: Ragnarok
Best NPC: Zack
Best mini-game: Motorcycle game (FFVII)


Worst FF: FFX-2
Worst male: Tidus
Worst female: Yuna
Worst system: FFX-2
Worst combat system: FFX-2 (Shouldn't that just rule under system?)
Worst story: FFX-2
Worst music: None
Worst villian: Shuyin
Worst world map: FFVII (Too easy)
Worst Airship: None
Worst mini-game: Moogle Game in FFVII

Psycho_Cyan
09-28-2006, 01:46 AM
The <b> FACT </b> is that fact and opinion are two VERY different things, and OPINIONS cannot be wrong, BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT A PERSON BELIEVES IN. Unless you can go into their brain, and force them to believe what you do. Im not trying to debate anything. You CANNOT confuse fact with opinion.

And Sephiroth doesnt have whiny lines. If you find any, those would be your OPINION.

Yeah, here's a fact for you: your inane crap has landed you a one-way ticket to my ignore list.

Grim062000
09-28-2006, 04:38 PM
Yeah, here's a fact for you: your inane crap has landed you a one-way ticket to my ignore list.

"OH NOOO, DONT IGNORE ME PLEASE! OH GOD, WHAT WILL I DO??"

No...you fuckin idiot...

Black Paladin
09-28-2006, 04:40 PM
Shut the fuck up you boring twat.

Swedish Fish
09-28-2006, 04:41 PM
Shut the fuck up you boring twat.

qft. I'm enjoying this.

jewess crabcake
09-28-2006, 05:05 PM
Well has everyone found a new scapegoat? Well seems I've been replaced, peace shall return.

fastidious percolator
09-28-2006, 05:44 PM
Well has everyone found a new scapegoat? Well seems I've been replaced, peace shall return.

I'll always love you :*

kurohime
09-28-2006, 05:51 PM
Feeling the love. :D

Grim062000
09-28-2006, 08:40 PM
qft. I'm enjoying this.

Not as much as me, lmao

Valerie Valens
09-29-2006, 05:30 AM
Just for the record, an opinion, while not correct or wrong, follows a scale of informed and mal-informed. And from what I've seen, Cyan and Prak's opinion is based on facts, and thus much more well informed than your vote on Sephiroth which is based on yet another opinion, you thinking he's cool because of his sword.

Verdict, Prak and Cyan's argument holds more water. You lose Grim, try again once you've learned the difference between opinions based on facts and opinions based on how your wet dreams of your favourite things makes your cock hard. ;)

Grim062000
09-29-2006, 08:46 AM
Just for the record, an opinion, while not correct or wrong, follows a scale of informed and mal-informed. And from what I've seen, Cyan and Prak's opinion is based on facts, and thus much more well informed than your vote on Sephiroth which is based on yet another opinion, you thinking he's cool because of his sword.

Verdict, Prak and Cyan's argument holds more water. You lose Grim, try again once you've learned the difference between opinions based on facts and opinions based on how your wet dreams of your favourite things makes your cock hard. ;)

Actually, you lose. You just assumed. Twice.

1. You said I think he's cool cuz of his sword. I never said that, not even once.

2. You imply I have wet dreams and he makes my cock hard. I do not dream about video games. I much more pressing things to do with my time then worry about a fictional game character. You write me off as one of those 16 year old little anime freaky fanboys. Personally, I dont give a shit who you think is better then Sephiroth. It doesnt bother me. Their "OPINIONS" are not held up by facts! Its NOT a fact he was whiny. ONLY their opinion. Others might see him as troubled and psycho.

So, try again. :)

Magneto42
09-29-2006, 08:53 AM
Ok so looking back over the things said about Kefka, I just wanna say this.
He's an annoying pixelated piece of sh*t character.

Grim062000
09-29-2006, 08:59 AM
Ok so looking back over the things said about Kefka, I just wanna say this.
He's an annoying pixelated piece of sh*t character.

lol, Im actually playing through FFVI for the first time, and he does seem rather....retarded.

Magneto42
09-29-2006, 09:02 AM
Ya, he is retarded. Great game Im playing it for the forth time, only I have stopped to play Kingdom Hearts 2 cause I got it yesterday. Shibby!

Also I just realised Kingdom Hearts rhymes with Condom Farts.

ThroneofOminous
09-29-2006, 10:02 AM
He's an annoying pixelated piece of sh*t character.
jftr, Sephiroth's character model wasn't exactly the most detailed in the world either.

At least Kefka changes facial expressions...

Hex Omega
09-29-2006, 11:46 AM
Ok so looking back over the things said about Kefka, I just wanna say this.
He's an annoying pixelated piece of sh*t character.

You clearly have 0 knowledge of what makes a good villian.

Magneto42
09-29-2006, 11:48 AM
LOL

Hex Omega
09-29-2006, 11:56 AM
Your right, it is funny that you think Kefka was a shit character. And sad.

Magneto42
09-29-2006, 11:58 AM
Ok ok.
I said that to stir some people up. Didnt take long either.

Hex Omega
09-29-2006, 12:07 PM
You're mistaken, i'm not stirred up one bit, I just find it rather bemusing that you think Kefka is a bad character.

jewess crabcake
09-29-2006, 12:08 PM
You clearly have 0 knowledge of what makes a good villian.

So villains have credentials, and expectations now? I thought being a good villain, was the character being an uber twat, to the point that it almost annoys you into enjoying his/er demise. But I guess it's true, gaming IS serious business.

Hex Omega
09-29-2006, 12:12 PM
So villains have credentials, and expectations now? I thought being a good villain, was the character being an uber twat, to the point that it almost annoys you into enjoying his/er demise. But I guess it's true, gaming IS serious business.

Of course they have expectations, it doesn't matter whether its a book, film, tv show or game. And Magneto's posts implied he thought Kefka was a shit character, which he clearly isn't.

Valerie Valens
09-29-2006, 12:14 PM
Actually, you lose. You just assumed. Twice.

1. You said I think he's cool cuz of his sword. I never said that, not even once.

2. You imply I have wet dreams and he makes my cock hard. I do not dream about video games. I much more pressing things to do with my time then worry about a fictional game character. You write me off as one of those 16 year old little anime freaky fanboys. Personally, I dont give a shit who you think is better then Sephiroth. It doesnt bother me. Their "OPINIONS" are not held up by facts! Its NOT a fact he was whiny. ONLY their opinion. Others might see him as troubled and psycho.

So, try again. :)

Yet...you responded, trying to overrule the opinions of the contrary. Also, you fail for taking things too literally, only a Sephiroth-obsessed fanboy would be so obsessed over lording his Sephiroth-obsession over an internet message board.

Okay so your reason for liking Sephiroth isn't because of his cool sword, big deal. The reason is probably something equally stupid.

So go ahead, bring up some real material instead of trying to pass your opinion as the one and only fact in the guise of an opinion and whining that it's just an opinion. That fact goes without saying, and only a retard would bother to mention it since the point of the topic is to debate on a subject based on facts. Insisting that it's opinion is evading the topic, and hence....evidence of fail.

Magneto42
09-29-2006, 12:15 PM
Well ok. I like Kefka. I dont think hes a great character. But hes ok.
Not as great as some make him out to be.

Psycho_Cyan
09-29-2006, 01:25 PM
Not as great as some make him out to be.

What makes you say that? He's at least as entertaining as every other FF villain (and many other 'rpg'-villains). The whole *SPOILER* succeeding at taking over the world thing has to count for something.

ROKI
09-29-2006, 01:40 PM
Well ok. I like Kefka. I dont think hes a great character. But hes ok.
Not as great as some make him out to be.

I think they created as he was suppposted to be made. A villain that you would hate from the first moment you see him on tv. Im not saying that he is the best villain around, but he is made pretty well.

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Hex Omega
09-29-2006, 02:50 PM
+rep for Roki

Grim062000
09-29-2006, 03:30 PM
Yet...you responded, trying to overrule the opinions of the contrary. Also, you fail for taking things too literally, only a Sephiroth-obsessed fanboy would be so obsessed over lording his Sephiroth-obsession over an internet message board.

Okay so your reason for liking Sephiroth isn't because of his cool sword, big deal. The reason is probably something equally stupid.

So go ahead, bring up some real material instead of trying to pass your opinion as the one and only fact in the guise of an opinion and whining that it's just an opinion. That fact goes without saying, and only a retard would bother to mention it since the point of the topic is to debate on a subject based on facts. Insisting that it's opinion is evading the topic, and hence....evidence of fail.

First off, you make no sence. Now your going around yourself in circles.

My point is, I like Sephiroth as a villain. Im not an "anime fanboy". I dont obsess over fictional characters. Its my opinion. I dont have to give you any reasons why he is the best, cuz he is the best TO ME. Thats all that matters.

You fail again.

fastidious percolator
09-29-2006, 05:36 PM
+rep for Roki

Valerie Valens
09-30-2006, 12:24 AM
I am too brainless to think what Joan's saying so i'll say that Joan is going around herself in circles.

I'm a sephie-obsessed fanboy in denial, and I can't come up with an argument to support my claim. Thats all that matters.

I fail again, but I'll say that Joan fails because it makes me look smrt!11

You proved my point that you are completely unable to provide factual arguments to back up your opinions, and when called on it you whine about it. Typical fanboy, if you're a more smarter person, you'd come up with good arguments instead of whining about it. DesertWolf is an example of an FF7 fan who can think, and he's provided good arguments to back up his opinion during his long and fruitful membership here.

Oh and Roki, in the original Jap version Kefka actually swears. Like in the beginning, instead of "Edgar you dolt!" and "Son of a submariner!" in the US localization, he says "Edgar you asshole!" and "Son of a bitch!" :D

ROKI
09-30-2006, 01:48 AM
Really? :D Well i like the "Son of the submariner" more, it adds something funny to the plot ;)

Black Paladin
09-30-2006, 06:11 AM
Any reliable dates on FFV and VI. For the GBA?

jewess crabcake
09-30-2006, 09:53 AM
wasn't it already supposed to be out?

Psycho_Cyan
09-30-2006, 10:58 AM
Oh and Roki, in the original Jap version Kefka actually swears. Like in the beginning, instead of "Edgar you dolt!" and "Son of a submariner!" in the US localization, he says "Edgar you asshole!" and "Son of a bitch!"

I'm not entirely an expert, but I've read somewhere that he doesn't swear as much as some folks would like us to think--as in not nearly as often as the fan'translated' roms have him swearing. At any rate, I really enjoy "son of a submariner!" Heck, I even say it from time to time.

Valerie Valens
09-30-2006, 11:17 AM
Hmm, yeah. We'd need a Jap speaker to dig the original Jap SNES cart and tell us. :D

Grim062000
09-30-2006, 02:10 PM
You proved my point that you are completely unable to provide factual arguments to back up your opinions, and when called on it you whine about it. Typical fanboy, if you're a more smarter person, you'd come up with good arguments instead of whining about it. DesertWolf is an example of an FF7 fan who can think, and he's provided good arguments to back up his opinion during his long and fruitful membership here.

Oh and Roki, in the original Jap version Kefka actually swears. Like in the beginning, instead of "Edgar you dolt!" and "Son of a submariner!" in the US localization, he says "Edgar you asshole!" and "Son of a bitch!" :D

Umm..I dont need to provide factual arguments. My opinion was that Sephiroth was cool. Thats it. I already said, I dont give a shit what you or anyone else thinks. I might think he's cool, you might think he sucks. Oh well. Who cares? Its a fucking video game character!

You assume, AGAIN. You dont even fuckin know me. I dont lock myself up in a house for hours on end playing video games, and obsessing over characters. I have a life. I have a job. I have a girlfriend. All of those qualities "fanboys" do no possess.

You just proved my point that you make it SEEM like you know what your talking about, but you dont know shit. And you cant tell the difference between fact and opinion.

Something you have in common with alot of the members here....strange.

Black Paladin
09-30-2006, 02:44 PM
I dont give a shit what you or anyone else thinks.

Then GTFO already!


Oh well. Who cares? Its a fucking video game character!

WE KNOW SO STOP GETTING RILED OVER IT!

Mr.Hazard
09-30-2006, 02:51 PM
No use talking to age-challenged Sephiroth fan/emoboys, there is no way we can slap sense into them.

Black Paladin
09-30-2006, 02:52 PM
I'm gonna take Praks advice now and ''Stop feeding the trolls''

Yui
09-30-2006, 02:54 PM
Umm..I dont need to provide factual arguments. My opinion was that Sephiroth was cool. Thats it. I already said, I dont give a shit what you or anyone else thinks. I might think he's cool, you might think he sucks. Oh well. Who cares? Its a fucking video game character!
Yes you do. A lot of people here loathes FF7(and the characters including Sephiroth) and they provide facts that backs up their opinion. It is something you should do also. Back up your opinions and provide us with strong details, otherwise, you'll be treated as one of those typical fanboys. If you say things like "I don't need to back up my opinion" or something related to that, then you'll be treated as one of the so called "fanboys" and a lot of people here will give you a hard time.

Also: I'm not flaming you or anything. This is something called "advice".

ROKI
09-30-2006, 03:27 PM
Umm..I dont need to provide factual arguments. My opinion was that Sephiroth was cool. Thats it. I already said, I dont give a shit what you or anyone else thinks. I might think he's cool, you might think he sucks. Oh well. Who cares? Its a fucking video game character!

I agree with trent, and 1 more thing. You may think it is just a stubit character. But you are on a videogaames forum. We analyse the ff games, characters,soundtracts, battle systems, everything.

Hex Omega
09-30-2006, 03:40 PM
Grim = PontiusPilate

mir?

Yui
09-30-2006, 03:45 PM
Grim = PontiusPilate

mir?
haha.

Grim062000
09-30-2006, 08:59 PM
Yes you do. A lot of people here loathes FF7(and the characters including Sephiroth) and they provide facts that backs up their opinion. It is something you should do also. Back up your opinions and provide us with strong details, otherwise, you'll be treated as one of those typical fanboys. If you say things like "I don't need to back up my opinion" or something related to that, then you'll be treated as one of the so called "fanboys" and a lot of people here will give you a hard time.

Also: I'm not flaming you or anything. This is something called "advice".

You guys are too fuckin critical then. It seems you all are the "Fanboys" if you over analyze everything related to FF. I just posted my opinion was all I did. I dont HAVE to give facts cuz I wasnt debating anyone.

THAT is something called advice, kid.

Psycho_Cyan
09-30-2006, 10:30 PM
Grim = PontiusPilate

mir?

Maybe even SephClone. Then again, there was speculation that PP=SC.

Valerie Valens
09-30-2006, 11:06 PM
Grim, this is a debate thread, not an opinion wankery thread. If you want to wank your opinion to a crowd, then do it somewhere else...like EoFF. I'm sure those tards would love to hear you out, as for us FFS crowd, pretty much everyone thinks you're a moron now. Good going there, champ. :D

PS : Shenanigans you have a life. Otherwise you'd be doing more productive things instead of pissing and moaning in a thread in an internet forum. :D

Transcendentalist
10-01-2006, 01:35 AM
Isn't this an opinion thread though? You say which ones you think are the best, and which aren't. It doesn't specifically say that this thread was meant for debate, or at least according to Bryan's first post that made this thread. Unless it was said when it was first made before this 'hack' thing. Btw, when was this?

Hex Omega
10-01-2006, 05:50 AM
You guys are too fuckin critical then. It seems you all are the "Fanboys" if you over analyze everything related to FF. I just posted my opinion was all I did. I dont HAVE to give facts cuz I wasnt debating anyone.

THAT is something called advice, kid.

Note how he dodges the accusation totally, rofl



Isn't this an opinion thread though? You say which ones you think are the best, and which aren't. It doesn't specifically say that this thread was meant for debate, or at least according to Bryan's first post that made this thread. Unless it was said when it was first made before this 'hack' thing. Btw, when was this?

Most threads here are made for the purpose of sparking debate. Also, there is a difference between quality and personal enjoyment. For example, I love Predator 2, I know its a pathetic excuse of a film, but I find it hugely entertaining.

Also, the hack was a few months ago, and 5 months of threads were lost.

Grim062000
10-01-2006, 08:30 AM
Grim, this is a debate thread, not an opinion wankery thread. If you want to wank your opinion to a crowd, then do it somewhere else...like EoFF. I'm sure those tards would love to hear you out, as for us FFS crowd, pretty much everyone thinks you're a moron now. Good going there, champ. :D

PS : Shenanigans you have a life. Otherwise you'd be doing more productive things instead of pissing and moaning in a thread in an internet forum. :D

This IS NOT A DEBATE THREAD. It is an opinion thread. You cant fuckin read? I posted my opinion! I dont give a fuck if its for "sparking up a debate" IM NOT DEBATING ON OPINIONS.

And what accusation did I dodge? That I was a fanboy? No, I made it perfectly clear I wasnt.

jewess crabcake
10-01-2006, 08:54 AM
Normally I would say "it's impossible to find best and worst because it's subjective" but this is pretty factual, opinion counts very little seeing as you're picking out of a series (which means that there must be a reason you picked him/her/there), not to bash on your peferences or anything, but let's be honest sephiroth was pretty shitty villain.

Grim062000
10-01-2006, 09:33 AM
Normally I would say "it's impossible to find best and worst because it's subjective" but this is pretty factual, opinion counts very little seeing as you're picking out of a series (which means that there must be a reason you picked him/her/there), not to bash on your peferences or anything, but let's be honest sephiroth was pretty shitty villain.

No, its what you THOUGHT was the best and worst. You dont have to back it up with facts because its what you thought. Thats all it is. If you thought FFIX was better then VII, thats your opinion. Move on. You dont have to fuckin debate it. You will never win, because you WONT change that persons mind, they will STILL think IX is better then VII. Just like you thinking Sephiroth was a shitty vilain. That is an OPINION. NOT a fact. Because a hell of alot of other people dont think that way. But you are entitled to your opinion, and you dont have to back up why you think he was a shitty villain.

jewess crabcake
10-01-2006, 09:39 AM
You see I'm about to make your standpoint factual with these magic words hold on I'm getting ready: What makes Sephiroth a good villain? You see now you have to back it up with facts, I agree with what you said, seeing as i said it on another thread, but opinions only go so far.

Magneto42
10-01-2006, 09:44 AM
Well istill fail to see how Kefka is better than Sephiroth. Not saying he's a bad villain. Just worse than Seph.

Hex Omega
10-01-2006, 09:47 AM
try reading this. ([Only registered and activated users can see links])

Magneto42
10-01-2006, 09:51 AM
I just realised how similar Seymour and Sephiroth are.

And Kefka appears to have blonde hair. Thats gay. LOL

ROKI
10-01-2006, 10:50 AM
Kefka was at the end anounced as the best villain in ff gams :D. Until the hack erased about 4 pages of that topic

Valerie Valens
10-01-2006, 11:27 AM
WAH WAH WAH! FUCK YUOR OPINION, MY OPINION IS THE ONLY ONE THAT COUNTS!!11

If you want your opinion respected, then don't fucking attack those whose opinions are contrary and don't accuse them of bashing your opinion when they're asking a simple question as to why you think the way you do.

It's elemental, really. Even LR gets it.

jewess crabcake
10-01-2006, 11:32 AM
Hey what do you mean "even LR" :mad: *sigh* joan will you ever change?

Grim062000
10-01-2006, 04:29 PM
If you want your opinion respected, then don't fucking attack those whose opinions are contrary and don't accuse them of bashing your opinion when they're asking a simple question as to why you think the way you do.

It's elemental, really. Even LR gets it.

Im not. Im attacking idiots who cant distinguish between fact and opinion. You need to stop putting words in my mouth, and stop assuming, You really look like an ass.

And if I put the reasons as to WHY I think he is the best, they would be MY OPINIONS. STILL opinions, NOT facts.

Hex Omega
10-01-2006, 04:35 PM
yes, and you've been saying this for like, 3 pages now. kindly stop.

Grim062000
10-01-2006, 10:13 PM
yes, and you've been saying this for like, 3 pages now. kindly stop.

Yup, if you have finally got the point, I will stop.

Sad it took this long.

Transcendentalist
10-01-2006, 10:57 PM
No need to bend backwards just to prove a point. But here's a fact, opinions do make debates whether you're aware of it or not. The reason for that is, basically favoring your own opinion against someone elses leads to either a small and quick battle of reasons, or basically conflict because one or both fail to see it's just a matter of opinion and can't seem to stop talking about what they think is right or wrong. Put simply, debating about favored opinions is a waste of time. So why not just keep our opinions to ourselves to make things easier, and to keep idiots quiet.

Psycho_Cyan
10-01-2006, 11:09 PM
No need to bend backwards just to prove a point. But here's a fact, opinions do make debates whether you're aware of it or not. The reason for that is, basically favoring your own opinion against someone elses leads to either a small and quick battle of reasons, or basically conflict because one or both fail to see it's just a matter of opinion and can't seem to stop talking about what they think is right or wrong. Put simply, debating about favored opinions is a waste of time. So why not just keep our opinions to ourselves to make things easier, and to keep idiots quiet.

After all that, the stupidly obvious question is, why are you posting in a debate and/or opinion thread when it's such a waste of time?

Transcendentalist
10-01-2006, 11:30 PM
After all that, the stupidly obvious question is, why are you posting in a debate and/or opinion thread when it's such a waste of time?

Is this a debate thread or an opinion thread? Most likely answer is opinion thread. I was just trying to point out that debates based on opinions are pointless, that's all. If you're telling me to leave this thread in a roundabout way, then just say so.

Psycho_Cyan
10-01-2006, 11:45 PM
If I were telling you to leave this thread, I would have done so. I'm just pointing out a bit of a contradiction in your, uh, logic. What you haven't learned about FFS yet is that "opinion threads" can and usually do turn into "debate threads."

Transcendentalist
10-01-2006, 11:49 PM
If I were telling you to leave this thread, I would have done so. I'm just pointing out a bit of a contradiction in your, uh, logic. What you haven't learned about FFS yet is that "opinion threads" can and usually do turn into "debate threads."

I'll keep that in mind.

noblearrogant
10-02-2006, 01:45 AM
Judge a character by his actions,not by his aspirations
Sephiroth wanted to become a god,Kefka did that
Sephiroth wanted to kill a bunch of people,Kefka did that

Valerie Valens
10-02-2006, 03:47 AM
Im not. Im attacking idiots who cant distinguish between fact and opinion. You need to stop putting words in my mouth, and stop assuming, You really look like an ass.

And if I put the reasons as to WHY I think he is the best, they would be MY OPINIONS. STILL opinions, NOT facts.

So you're attacking yourself? MIR ?_?

The Ricky
10-02-2006, 07:20 AM
Best FF: FFIX
Best male: Sabin
Best female: Celes
Best system(Materia, Junction etc): FF7
Best combat system: FFX-2
Best story: FF6
Best music: FF6
Best villian: Kefka
Best world map: FF6
Best Airship: Falcon (FF6)
Best NPC: Wedge and Biggs
Best mini-game: FF7 motorcycle game


Worst FF: FF8
Worst male: Squall
Worst female: Rinoa
Worst system: FF8
Worst combat system: FF8
Worst story: FF8
Worst music: FF8
Worst villian: Edea
Worst world map: FF8
Worst Airship: FF8
Worst NPC: Seifer
Worst mini-game: Triple Triad

Notice a pattern here? I fucking hate FF8.

Grim062000
10-02-2006, 08:51 AM
If I were telling you to leave this thread, I would have done so. I'm just pointing out a bit of a contradiction in your, uh, logic. What you haven't learned about FFS yet is that "opinion threads" can and usually do turn into "debate threads."

Damn...how many times do I have to pound this into your skull?

I AM NOT DEBATING. You CANNOT lump me into a catagory with all the rest of the people who post here. My intention was NOT to debate, but post my OPINION. Then all you fuckin morons wanna go "Sephiroth wasnt the best, blah blah blah" and start saying I need to give facts. IM NOT DEBATING. I dont give a shit what you think! Then we started arguing about opinions and facts, which are two different things, but no one here seems to get that!

But maybe, JUST MAYBE, some of you are. SOME of you...

Prak
10-02-2006, 08:54 AM
Just for the record, all that stuff you're whining about originated with or was popularized by yours truly. Next time you start to think you're a match for me, remember that my view is dominant, you inferior cunt.

Grim062000
10-02-2006, 09:01 AM
Just for the record, all that stuff you're whining about originated with or was popularized by yours truly. Next time you start to think you're a match for me, remember that my view is dominant, you inferior cunt.

Umm, no. We've already had our little argument Prak. Your hardly superior to anyone. You cant be better then anybody on the fucking internet, Prak. There is a world outside of your computer, believe it or not. THAT is where what you do counts. On the internet, everyone is the same. You cant sound hard cuz its just words that you type. Your a sad little man, on a screen with no hope for a life, so you have to get your jollies off by calling people cunts. But I garuntee you, you would NEVER do that to someones face. Especially not mine.

BTW, this wasnt started by you, this was started because idiots cant tell the difference between fact and opinion.

Prak
10-02-2006, 09:10 AM
bitch bitch whine whine generic insult that nobody ever takes seriously

And just so you know, I most definitely would call you a cunt to your face. I've done it to people before and will likely do it again.

Magneto42
10-02-2006, 09:16 AM
Im really digging FF8 right now.

noblearrogant
10-02-2006, 02:56 PM
Someone pay attention to me :(

Valerie Valens
10-02-2006, 03:21 PM
Damn...how many times do I have to pound this into your skull?

I AM NOT DEBATING. You CANNOT lump me into a catagory with all the rest of the people who post here. My intention was NOT to debate, but post my OPINION. Then all you fuckin morons wanna go "Sephiroth wasnt the best, blah blah blah" and start saying I need to give facts. IM NOT DEBATING. I dont give a shit what you think! Then we started arguing about opinions and facts, which are two different things, but no one here seems to get that!

But maybe, JUST MAYBE, some of you are. SOME of you...

Then don't expect us to shower you with praises for your opinion. Since we...by the same coin...don't think much of yours. ;)


Umm, no. We've already had our little argument Prak. Your hardly superior to anyone. You cant be better then anybody on the fucking internet, Prak. There is a world outside of your computer, believe it or not. THAT is where what you do counts. On the internet, everyone is the same. You cant sound hard cuz its just words that you type. Your a sad little man, on a screen with no hope for a life, so you have to get your jollies off by calling people cunts. But I garuntee you, you would NEVER do that to someones face. Especially not mine.

I know for a fact that you're intellectually inferior to Prak. See the bolded? That's irony right there, you calling others a moron, when you've made the single most moronic typo ever. The same goes for you accusing me of assuming, and then violently throwing a million irrelevant assumptions about the life of your detractors.

I assure you, not only would I say you're a brainless fuckwit to your face. I would knee you in the nuts, karate-chop you in the neck, and then spit on your face. People like you disgust me.


BTW, this wasnt started by you, this was started because idiots cant tell the difference between fact and opinion.

We all can tell, which is why we're telling you that we're onto debating facts to back up our own opinions. Your refusal to get our point is demonstrative proof of you being, in your own words, "an idiot who cant tell the difference between fact and opinion"

Just saying. ;)

Yui
10-02-2006, 06:07 PM
BTW, this wasnt started by you, this was started because idiots cant tell the difference between fact and opinion.
And everyone is starting to think you're an idiot now for complaining about facts and opinions.

Which most fanboys here in ffshrine do, kid.

Hex Omega
10-02-2006, 06:10 PM
Someone pay attention to me :(

I'm amazed people missed this gem of a post.

Also, this should be closed tbh, it's gone way, way off-topic and turned into a pointless and ardous arguement.

Grim062000
10-02-2006, 08:54 PM
Wow, where do I begin.

First, lets talk about Prak.

Prak, I doubt you could muster the balls to call me a cunt in my face. You couldnt even GET into the air force for fucks sake.

Joan, or whatever your name is, you havent won any little argument, I have no idea why you put that little smiley like you struck home a point. I know that Prak is an internet tech rep, with little to no life, who thinks he's the shit by runnin around on message boards callin people cunts. "karate chop in the neck?" Yeah....ok...

And I can mistype all I wand, I wasnt hounding anyones spelling. And its not the most moronic grammar error, that would be all caps, or no punctuation. :)

And to the guy who called me a "kid". Please...Ive done more shit in my life then you or anyone on this board will ever even HOPE to do. Just sit back on your easy chair, and turn on your american idol, you lazy fuck.

IF YOU DONT WANT ME TO RESPOND, DONT POST A MESSAGE.

ROKI
10-02-2006, 09:48 PM
Why dont you just stop? You have f^%$ed up a great topic with ur stubit responses

Transcendentalist
10-03-2006, 12:13 AM
Joan... You're Ruthless... Please don't hurt me...



And to the guy who called me a "kid". Please...Ive done more shit in my life then you or anyone on this board will ever even HOPE to do. Just sit back on your easy chair, and turn on your american idol, you lazy fuck.

IF YOU DONT WANT ME TO RESPOND, DONT POST A MESSAGE.

Let me ask you a question. If you saw someone type and act the way you are doing now, how would you think of them? Your choice of words, and the fact you can't stop trying to make some sort of come back after every small insult from someone, tells me you act and think like a "kid." If you're as old as you seem to claim you are, then try acting like it instead of trashing a thread with pointless insults and come backs.

noblearrogant
10-03-2006, 12:40 AM
Hehe he called you a kid :)

Mr.Hazard
10-03-2006, 03:18 AM
The spammer can't be reasoned with, so let's just ignore the old tripe.

Valerie Valens
10-03-2006, 03:41 AM
Joan, or whatever your name is, you havent won any little argument, I have no idea why you put that little smiley like you struck home a point. I know that Prak is an internet tech rep, with little to no life, who thinks he's the shit by runnin around on message boards callin people cunts. "karate chop in the neck?" Yeah....ok...

There's nothing to win anyways, you fail at arguments, you fail at ad hominem. You pretty much lost the moment you hit the reply button. So...how does it feel, being the loser who's throwing a fit due to being too socially, emotionally and intellectually inept to initiate a debate? ;) Sounds like a wonderful life you're having.


And to the guy who called me a "kid". Please...Ive done more shit in my life then you or anyone on this board will ever even HOPE to do. Just sit back on your easy chair, and turn on your american idol, you lazy fuck.

IF YOU DONT WANT ME TO RESPOND, DONT POST A MESSAGE.

Like what, bang nails into plywood with your empty skull? I'm sure that banging nails into plywood is a monmental achievement for you ever since your mother shot you out of her crusty-ass vagina and into the abortion bin, but the rest of us have better things to do that follow in your footsteps. Capische? ;)

With that unpleasant business out of the way, let's get this topic back on track.

People argue that FFVII/FFVIII has the worst system of all the FFs due to how easy it is to abuse the Junctioning/Materia system early in the game. What arguments would the FFVII/FFVIII crowd bring to the fable to refute this claim? If the argument is demonstrative, please post a video.

DarkEyedCloud
10-03-2006, 06:11 AM
Best FF: FFVII
Best male: Cloud
Best female: Terra
Best system(Materia, Junction etc): FFVII
Best combat system: FFVI
Best story: FFVII
Best music: FFVII
Best villian: Sephiroth (You just can&#180;t beat him.)
Best world map: FFIX
Best Airship: Highwind
Best NPC: Beatrix
Best mini-game: Gold Saucer Snowboarding


Worst FF: FFX
Worst male: Khimari
Worst female: Selfie
Worst system: FFVIII
Worst combat system: FFIX
Worst story: FFVI
Worst music: Well, I gotta say FFIV, and people will try to fry me for that. Sorry.
Worst villian: Seymour (what a little bitch.)
Worst world map: FFVIII (That stupid bridge in the middle...grr...)
Worst Airship: Ragnarok
Worst mini-game: Triple Triad

Prak
10-03-2006, 07:48 AM
Oh look, Grim's still being an idiot and another retarded fanboy just appeared. This thread is certainly worthwhile!

DarkEyedCloud
10-03-2006, 09:53 AM
Oh look, Grim's still being an idiot and another retarded fanboy just appeared. This thread is certainly worthwhile!

You know, I ignore flaming most of the time, but yours is the worst kind. That's such a useless, hateful ultimately waste-of-my-life-to-read thing to say. Which is normally why I ignore it. It just isn't worth my time. But some people think that they have some kind of ownership over a board because they have a lot of posts, or have been around since the beginning of the forum, or whatever kind of Napoleanic complex residing in their short-stacked little head. Let me explain something to you:
1. I am a fanboy. Whine all you want. You'll notice that I didn't write down FF7 for everything. Or maybe you would have, if you had actually read my post.
2. Flaming has never been cool. It's just like picking on other kids in elementary school. Might make you think you're cooler. You'd be wrong. (And yes I just compared you to an elementary schooler.)
3. Nobody asked you, I just posted my opinion. I didn't ask for feedback, I didn't ask for a response, I just put my opinion out there to see if anyone had the same feelings as I did. I didn't ask for some smartass remark. Now, I'm going to post this, close the window, and never read another of your contributions again, because if there is one thing I've figured out by now about the internet, it's that people like you rarely have anything interesting to say.

And to think, I actually thought your avatar and little explanation were clever. I just wish people could express their feelings about some of the greatest games of all time without ragging on each other constantly.

That's my bit.

jewess crabcake
10-03-2006, 10:07 AM
You know, I ignore flaming most of the time, but yours is the worst kind. That's such a useless, hateful ultimately waste-of-my-life-to-read thing to say. Which is normally why I ignore it. It just isn't worth my time. But some people think that they have some kind of ownership over a board because they have a lot of posts, or have been around since the beginning of the forum, or whatever kind of Napoleanic complex residing in their short-stacked little head. Let me explain something to you:
1. I am a fanboy. Whine all you want. You'll notice that I didn't write down FF7 for everything. Or maybe you would have, if you had actually read my post.
2. Flaming has never been cool. It's just like picking on other kids in elementary school. Might make you think you're cooler. You'd be wrong. (And yes I just compared you to an elementary schooler.)
3. Nobody asked you, I just posted my opinion. I didn't ask for feedback, I didn't ask for a response, I just put my opinion out there to see if anyone had the same feelings as I did. I didn't ask for some smartass remark. Now, I'm going to post this, close the window, and never read another of your contributions again, because if there is one thing I've figured out by now about the internet, it's that people like you rarely have anything interesting to say.

And to think, I actually thought your avatar and little explanation were clever. I just wish people could express their feelings about some of the greatest games of all time without ragging on each other constantly.

That's my bit.*SIGH* A couple things you just randomly attacking someone who uses the word "fanboy" will ultimately lead to the mocking of you and your posts. Another thing, randomly attacking Prak does not make him think to stop and say "huh what's wrong with me" it justs lights the flame and and starts a whole new problem. You see prak acts so gruff to get a rise out of people, why? because he does it for shits and giggles, as do the rest of us. By this one post you have most likely summoned about 4 people at the least. You have not helped the problem you have only just made it wworse and for that a pox on yur house.

DarkEyedCloud
10-03-2006, 10:14 AM
Umm...I admitted to being a fanboy. And why do you think schoolyard bullies pick on littler kids? Because it hurts them deep in their souls? No, it's for "shits and giggles." Of course I know why he does it, I'm not an idiot. I'm just saddened by the fact that he feels he needs to indiscriminately dismiss anything that is said by a "retarded fanboy."

Oh well. Se la vie.

Valerie Valens
10-03-2006, 10:17 AM
You're wrong LR, Prak was pretty much commenting on the air of the post and the suspicous circumstances in which he made his introductory post. Shenanigans? Maybe, I noticed that darkEyedCloud signed in just as Grim signed off. Provocative? Definitely!

Black Paladin
10-03-2006, 10:17 AM
Well Praks opinion is often a very accurate indication of your credibility.

Prak
10-03-2006, 10:18 AM
You know, I ignore flaming most of the time, but yours is the worst kind. That's such a useless, hateful ultimately waste-of-my-life-to-read thing to say. Which is normally why I ignore it. It just isn't worth my time. But some people think that they have some kind of ownership over a board because they have a lot of posts, or have been around since the beginning of the forum, or whatever kind of Napoleanic complex residing in their short-stacked little head.

Lots of big assumptions there. Second-guessing people isn't a good policy.


Let me explain something to you:
1. I am a fanboy. Whine all you want. You'll notice that I didn't write down FF7 for everything. Or maybe you would have, if you had actually read my post.

Who was whining about what you wrote? I was using you as a tool to suggest that the thread is a miserable failure and a waste of bandwidth.

And for the record, I never reply to a post without reading it.


2. Flaming has never been cool. It's just like picking on other kids in elementary school. Might make you think you're cooler. You'd be wrong. (And yes I just compared you to an elementary schooler.)

Again, you misunderstand completely. I do not do what I do in order to make myself seem cool. I do it because I simply do not like what you stand for and feel that it deserves to be stated. It is also a heavy-handed attempt at awakening you to the fact that you did not use reason as a basis for your post.


3. Nobody asked you, I just posted my opinion. I didn't ask for feedback, I didn't ask for a response, I just put my opinion out there to see if anyone had the same feelings as I did.

If all you wanted was for like-minded people to agree with you and everyone else to stay away, yours is a pathetic existence.


Now, I'm going to post this, close the window, and never read another of your contributions again, because if there is one thing I've figured out by now about the internet, it's that people like you rarely have anything interesting to say.

If you truly believe that, then you are as ignorant of internet "society" as you are of the nature of this community. People like me often have a great deal to contribute if you approach the matter properly.


And to think, I actually thought your avatar and little explanation were clever.

And you don't now? My, that is certainly a silly perspective to hold.

Frankly, I appreciate how well-spoken you are and I'd probably like you a lot if not for the blatant fanboyism and lack of understanding of the community. A good discussion would do wonders for you if you were willing to accept the challenge instead of crying about how bad the other party is for poking fun at you.

jewess crabcake
10-03-2006, 10:20 AM
I never quite got his it's sort of like Prak's responses are sort of the definition of FFS but Sarah barely gets a respectable mention.

DarkEyedCloud
10-03-2006, 10:20 AM
Apparently people hold him in high esteem. I also feel awkward talking about him in the third person, as if he is not here. However, because of the internet, this is the only way to do it.

Let me set one thing straight. As I said, most of the time I ignore it. It just bugs me. Personal opinion. He can of course tell me that it's his personal opinion that I'm a cunt. I don't know why he would, but it's his freedom and option to do so.

I just don't see why he would.

Valerie Valens
10-03-2006, 10:23 AM
Because you attacked him at the slightest provocation, genious. :rolleyes:

DarkEyedCloud
10-03-2006, 10:25 AM
And to you Prak, I also appreciate how well spoken you are, but in my opinion you were not "poking fun." Poking fun would be asking me why every answer isn't "Cloud Strife." That would be funny. That would expose me as a fanboy without making me out to be some harbinger of closed-mindedness. I in fact think, after my last play through, that FFIX takes top prize for game that finally trumped FFVII, though it's a shame so few played it. Rather than argue semantics, I'd love to discuss what you found to be fanboyish, or perhaps, closed minded about my post.

This is not sarcasm, and I realize that tone can often be misconstrued on the internet, and of course the advent of lag time makes it difficult to hold a discussion. However, I really am interested. So, in a manner of speaking, fire away.

Prak
10-03-2006, 10:57 AM
To be perfectly honest, I wasn't aware of how well-spoken or reasonable you are at the time I read that post. From my initial impression, you seemed like a stereotypical fanboy of the sort that I so greatly despise.

As for the post itself, I honestly can't be bothered to break it down and explain why I found it so horribly fanboyish. However, I'll point out a couple of highlights. You stated that Sephiroth was the best villain and Kuja was the worst. However, Kuja clearly had the greater development of the two characters and was the greater threat of the two. And then to say that FFVI had the worst story... Frankly, that's hard to take with any credibility. And need I even mention the absurdity of saying FFIX had the worst combat system when it was basically the same as FFVII's, but more refined?

Starscream
10-03-2006, 01:03 PM
And to the guy who called me a "kid". Please...Ive done more shit in my life then you or anyone on this board will ever even HOPE to do. Just sit back on your easy chair, and turn on your american idol, you lazy fuck.

IF YOU DONT WANT ME TO RESPOND, DONT POST A MESSAGE.
Oh look another pathetic attempt at a hard-luck story. What a cunt.
If you're looking for sympathy, search somewhere else because bullshitting about how much 'shit' you've done in your life won't get you respect from any members with an ounce of intelligence.

noblearrogant
10-03-2006, 11:11 PM
I,for one, have huge amounts of respect for Grim
I mean,it takes a lot of balls to go online and tell people you're never gonna met in your entire life that they're inferior to you

Transcendentalist
10-04-2006, 02:55 AM
FFIX had the worst combat system when it was basically the same as FFVII's, but more refined?

Please explain. I've played both, but I fail to see how it's the same but more refined.

DarkEyedCloud
10-04-2006, 04:15 AM
Please explain. I've played both, but I fail to see how it's the same but more refined.

I'd agree. The beef I had with the combat system in FFIX is that it tended to get backed up, and if you played FFIX, then you know what I'm talking about.

As for FFVI having the worst story, I don't mean to say that it was the worst. It may not even be the worst. But it was the plot line which I identified least with. I'm sorry, I can't explain why, because honestly I don't know either. FFVI is touted by many to be the best of the FFs, and I just couldn't get into it. Probably fault of my own, but I just didn't enjoy it as much. Come to think of it, FFVIII and FFX's storylines are right along there in the worst story category.

But anyway, as for Sephiroth being a better villain than Kuja, I saw Kuja as a lame attempt (don't forget that I love FFIX) at recreating Sephiroth. Same basic goal: Become a God, destroy the world, Mwa ha ha. Both were genetically created by somebody. Sephiroth, however, expresses his existential crisis in a more believable way, AND has plausible (although muddled) history with Cloud. Say what you want about Cloud, I thought the fact that the game went deep into the deconstruction and reconstruction of his character (or avatar, as Prak calls them) was intensely interesting.

The interwoven scenes in Disc 2 (I happen to be playing through it again as we speak) where Sephiroth shows Cloud what really happened in Nibelheim prior to Cloud finding the 'real' Sephiroth shows the history and inner motives of not only Sephiroth, but Tifa and Cloud as well.

Besides, Sephiroth does a lot more mocking than Kuja, and in my mind, strikes a much more imposing figure. You know what, on second thought? Worst villain award get's taken by Seymour. What a little bitch. I have to go back and change my post now. Dammit.

Prak
10-04-2006, 07:06 AM
I'd agree. The beef I had with the combat system in FFIX is that it tended to get backed up, and if you played FFIX, then you know what I'm talking about.

I think I understand what you're getting at, but that's hardly a significant gripe. The "backup" you refer to was simply the price to be paid for having more detail in the attack animations and a larger party. It was pretty much unavoidable.


As for FFVI having the worst story, I don't mean to say that it was the worst. It may not even be the worst. But it was the plot line which I identified least with. I'm sorry, I can't explain why, because honestly I don't know either. FFVI is touted by many to be the best of the FFs, and I just couldn't get into it. Probably fault of my own, but I just didn't enjoy it as much. Come to think of it, FFVIII and FFX's storylines are right along there in the worst story category.

I can accept that, although I still think it's rather silly. One of the major problems I have with the Final Fantasy series is that FFVII seems to have taught a great many people that finding something to identify with in a game is the most important thing. Frankly, that view is ridiculous.


But anyway, as for Sephiroth being a better villain than Kuja, I saw Kuja as a lame attempt (don't forget that I love FFIX) at recreating Sephiroth. Same basic goal: Become a God, destroy the world, Mwa ha ha. Both were genetically created by somebody. Sephiroth, however, expresses his existential crisis in a more believable way, AND has plausible (although muddled) history with Cloud.

And Sephiroth's goal was the same as Kefka's. The difference there is that Kefka succeeded. There are only so many things that villains can be after in a fantasy-based game, so it's not unusual to see several with the same ones in such a long-running series.

Also, I fail to see what's so believable about Sephiroth's existential crisis. He found out he was a science project, so he went wacko and suddenly started looking for his alien mommy. Surely someone as strong-willed as the game purported the character to be would handle the revelation in a more mature manner instead of promptly jumping straight off the deep end.

Lastly, I challenge you to show how Zidane's connection to Kuja was any less plausible.


Say what you want about Cloud, I thought the fact that the game went deep into the deconstruction and reconstruction of his character (or avatar, as Prak calls them) was intensely interesting.

That's nice, but the character itself was nothing more than a generic personality archetype. Cloud had no quirks at all to set him apart. The only development the character had was regarding his past, which is not the same as defining a personality.


Besides, Sephiroth does a lot more mocking than Kuja, and in my mind, strikes a much more imposing figure. You know what, on second thought? Worst villain award get's taken by Seymour. What a little bitch. I have to go back and change my post now. Dammit.

I find it rather difficult to believe that anyone can actually think Sephiroth does more mocking than Kuja. Throughout their respective games, Kuja has a much more dominant presence. He spends far more time on screen, has a great deal more dialogue with the other characters, and ultimately does mock them more. And honestly, who cares how imposing he is? It isn't a necessary aspect. He still managed to start a war that ravaged a continent, killed more people than Sephiroth, showed a much greater degree of evil, and ltimately tried to destroy all of existence. The only FF villain who can match those achievements is Kefka.

Magneto42
10-04-2006, 07:16 AM
Whoa whoa whoa. Youre talking to my boy all wrong. Its the wrong tone.
Do it again and Ill stab you in the face with a soldering iron.

ROKI
10-04-2006, 08:03 AM
Finally a debate that its interesting to read

Ceidwad
10-04-2006, 09:16 AM
Best FF: FFIX shades it from VIII, VII and X
Best male: Squall Leonhart FFVIII, Aldebert Steiner FFIX, Vivi Ornitier FFIX
Best female: Tifa Lockheart FFVII
Best system(Materia, Junction etc): FFVII's Materia
Best combat system: FFX-2
Best story: FFX
Best music: FFIX
Best villian: Seymour
Best world map: FFVI
Best Airship: Celsius
Best NPC: Headmaster Cid FFVIII
Best mini-game: Blitzball definitely!


Worst FF: FFXI, because you have to make monthly payments which is crap!
Worst male: Cloud
Worst female: Yuna (in FFX. Slightly improved in X-2)
Worst system: FFVIII
Worst combat system: FFVII/VIII/IX (all the same). Not bad exactly, just not as good as the two latest ones.
Worst story: FFVII
Worst music: None, each FF has some good music at least
Worst villian: Kuja
Worst world map: FFX, it had none which was a real let-down.
Worst Airship: Ragnarok
Worst mini-game: Tetra Master in FFIX, Triple Triad was better in my opinion.

DarkEyedCloud
10-04-2006, 09:43 AM
I think I understand what you're getting at, but that's hardly a significant gripe. The "backup" you refer to was simply the price to be paid for having more detail in the attack animations and a larger party. It was pretty much unavoidable.

Fair enough. Although I don't find the battlesystems in FFVI-FFIX to be that different from each other, I suspect that the original posters intent was to ascertain whether people prefered the 'old-school' system or the new, turnbased one found in FFX (and I'm assuming FFX-2, I didn't play it for numerous reasons.)



I can accept that, although I still think it's rather silly. One of the major problems I have with the Final Fantasy series is that FFVII seems to have taught a great many people that finding something to identify with in a game is the most important thing. Frankly, that view is ridiculous.

Alright, disagreement of personal opinion. I find that plot and character are the two things in a game that draw me in the most. Being able to identify with a character's crisis, however implausible it may be, is something that is necessary for me, and something that made me dislike FFVIII on my first play through. While it may seem illogical now (as it does to me) I identified with the quiet loner Cloud while at the same time I thought Squall was a whining little bitch who didn't have any friends. After a second and third playthrough, I've come to like Squall more, and I hold him in higher esteem than that.


And Sephiroth's goal was the same as Kefka's. The difference there is that Kefka succeeded. There are only so many things that villains can be after in a fantasy-based game, so it's not unusual to see several with the same ones in such a long-running series.

Good point. But because, as you say, there are only so many things a villain can focus on without redoing something that's already been done, it's the presentation that matters. I find Sephiroth was on screen a lot more than Kefka. I also see Sephiroth as having partially succeeded. The ending of the game is left relatively open, but it's a surefire thing that Sephiroth succeeded in calling Meteor, setting the Weapons upon the world, and he definitely killed a lot of people. While he may not have the "World Ending" accomplished and tagged on at the end of his resume, I found his relationship to Cloud to be much more personal than Kuja and Zidane's.

So Zidane and Kuja are brothers. Big whoop. I see this as a relatively mirror-imaged relationship between Sephiroth and Cloud, but for some reason Zidane is too much of a "nice guy" to let anything, even Kuja destroying a world and trying to kill him at every turn, ruin his perception of the individual doing it.


Also, I fail to see what's so believable about Sephiroth's existential crisis. He found out he was a science project, so he went wacko and suddenly started looking for his alien mommy. Surely someone as strong-willed as the game purported the character to be would handle the revelation in a more mature manner instead of promptly jumping straight off the deep end.

I would certainly start questioning my own existence if I found out that none of my memories were my own (that pertains to Cloud AND Sephiroth) and that I was genetically constructed from scratch, rather than an actual person. It does take a certain ability to suspend some of your belief to make the jump, yes. I count myself fortunate that I was able to suspend my own in order to really get into Sephiroth's own personality crisis.

And for the mommy bit, it's not really his mother Sephiroth is looking for. It's a point of reference, something that is real and something that he can identify with. Something he can point to and say, without a doubt, "this verifies my existence." Maybe I'm reading to deep, but that's how I read it.


That's nice, but the character itself was nothing more than a generic personality archetype. Cloud had no quirks at all to set him apart. The only development the character had was regarding his past, which is not the same as defining a personality.

Well, it's a video game, not Shakespearian literature. If the entire game was character development there'd be no time for, say, action. Or, it would turn into Xenosaga, ie: more of a cut-scene movie than an actual game (and yet, somehow they managed to have a minimum of character development in that game too...)




I find it rather difficult to believe that anyone can actually think Sephiroth does more mocking than Kuja. Throughout their respective games, Kuja has a much more dominant presence. He spends far more time on screen, has a great deal more dialogue with the other characters, and ultimately does mock them more. And honestly, who cares how imposing he is? It isn't a necessary aspect. He still managed to start a war that ravaged a continent, killed more people than Sephiroth, showed a much greater degree of evil, and ltimately tried to destroy all of existence. The only FF villain who can match those achievements is Kefka.

I would say that Sephiroth is definitely up there on screen time in the second disc, at least, and certainly does his share of mocking. Finding out that Cloud was not following Sephiroth but "Being summoned by Sephiroth" (direct quote) the entire time shows the player that Cloud has, at no point, had ANY autonomy. He has been under Sephiroth's control, whether blatant and obvious or subtle and unnoticed the entire game. Besides that, Sephiroth has learned to control the Jenova cells that make up Cloud's body, and Sephiroth constantly taunts him for being a "puppet." I don't remember Kuja ever making existential or nihilistic jabs at Zidane that refer to his autonomy, only his creation. Maybe it's the primacy effect (I'm playing FFVII right now, not FFIX) but I don't remember seeing any of that type of thing. Sephiroth's manipulation of Cloud is not only in toying with him and taunting him about his past, but his PRESENT as well.

Prak
10-04-2006, 10:12 AM
Fair enough. Although I don't find the battlesystems in FFVI-FFIX to be that different from each other, I suspect that the original posters intent was to ascertain whether people prefered the 'old-school' system or the new, turnbased one found in FFX (and I'm assuming FFX-2, I didn't play it for numerous reasons.)

X-2 actually had the most polished and interesting version of the ATB system to date.


Alright, disagreement of personal opinion. I find that plot and character are the two things in a game that draw me in the most. Being able to identify with a character's crisis, however implausible it may be, is something that is necessary for me, and something that made me dislike FFVIII on my first play through. While it may seem illogical now (as it does to me) I identified with the quiet loner Cloud while at the same time I thought Squall was a whining little bitch who didn't have any friends. After a second and third playthrough, I've come to like Squall more, and I hold him in higher esteem than that.

Then it seems to me like you should be reading books instead of playing games. That's the source of my grudge against FFVII. A massive number of people, thanks to that game, now believe that story trumps gameplay because that game threw aside all the paradigms of the industry in order to have a more mass-market appeal. Now those people regard gaming as "reading with moving pictures" or some shit like that. Games are always going to be inferior to books in that regard, however, simply because no game can ever match the character depth of a well-written novel.


Good point. But because, as you say, there are only so many things a villain can focus on without redoing something that's already been done, it's the presentation that matters. I find Sephiroth was on screen a lot more than Kefka. I also see Sephiroth as having partially succeeded. The ending of the game is left relatively open, but it's a surefire thing that Sephiroth succeeded in calling Meteor, setting the Weapons upon the world, and he definitely killed a lot of people. While he may not have the "World Ending" accomplished and tagged on at the end of his resume, I found his relationship to Cloud to be much more personal than Kuja and Zidane's.

Nicely stated, but that's all beside the point. The point in contention was the originality of Kuja's plans vs the originality of Sephiroth's.

The relationships between the heroes and villains can differ from game to game, you know. Just because one is less personal does not make it inferior.


So Zidane and Kuja are brothers. Big whoop. I see this as a relatively mirror-imaged relationship between Sephiroth and Cloud, but for some reason Zidane is too much of a "nice guy" to let anything, even Kuja destroying a world and trying to kill him at every turn, ruin his perception of the individual doing it.

So what?


I would certainly start questioning my own existence if I found out that none of my memories were my own (that pertains to Cloud AND Sephiroth) and that I was genetically constructed from scratch, rather than an actual person. It does take a certain ability to suspend some of your belief to make the jump, yes. I count myself fortunate that I was able to suspend my own in order to really get into Sephiroth's own personality crisis.

You shouldn't be required to suspend disbelief. A well-told story is crafted from a series of logical progressions. When something requires you to not put too much thought into something for it to remain enjoyable, it is a failure.


And for the mommy bit, it's not really his mother Sephiroth is looking for. It's a point of reference, something that is real and something that he can identify with. Something he can point to and say, without a doubt, "this verifies my existence." Maybe I'm reading to deep, but that's how I read it.

What you're doing there is assigning meaning to something that wasn't given any by the writer. In other words, there's a hole and you're filling it with the most logical thing you can think of to justify your liking of it. The sad thing is that you don't have to justify anything. No one has any problem with you liking it as is. The problem comes in when people militantly protest assertions of the game's myriad flaws and become aggressive when others point out that it was, in fact, an extremely mediocre game, regardless of its impact on them.


Well, it's a video game, not Shakespearian literature. If the entire game was character development there'd be no time for, say, action. Or, it would turn into Xenosaga, ie: more of a cut-scene movie than an actual game (and yet, somehow they managed to have a minimum of character development in that game too...)

This really isn't an excuse. Shortly before FFVII was release, another game was released that featured a massively superior story. Kain, the main character of Blood Omen, was an extremely well-developed character who didn't need to have his history fleshed out in tremendous detail to give the illusion of depth. He had enough personality to carry the game based on his present persona alone.


I would say that Sephiroth is definitely up there on screen time in the second disc, at least, and certainly does his share of mocking. Finding out that Cloud was not following Sephiroth but "Being summoned by Sephiroth" (direct quote) the entire time shows the player that Cloud has, at no point, had ANY autonomy. He has been under Sephiroth's control, whether blatant and obvious or subtle and unnoticed the entire game. Besides that, Sephiroth has learned to control the Jenova cells that make up Cloud's body, and Sephiroth constantly taunts him for being a "puppet." I don't remember Kuja ever making existential or nihilistic jabs at Zidane that refer to his autonomy, only his creation. Maybe it's the primacy effect (I'm playing FFVII right now, not FFIX) but I don't remember seeing any of that type of thing. Sephiroth's manipulation of Cloud is not only in toying with him and taunting him about his past, but his PRESENT as well.

Kuja's taunting may have been based on different aspects of the characters involved, but it was present all the same. Telling the things that Sephiroth poked at Cloud about serves to prove nothing at all.

Yui
10-04-2006, 05:47 PM
And to the guy who called me a "kid". Please...Ive done more shit in my life then you or anyone on this board will ever even HOPE to do. Just sit back on your easy chair, and turn on your american idol, you lazy fuck.
First off, I'm not a guy.

Second, I hate American Idol.

Third, what OTHER SHIT have you done in your life? Play FF7? And me? Lazy? Look at yourself first in the mirror before calling other people lame names.

The Anti-Existence
10-31-2006, 01:01 AM
But anyway, as for Sephiroth being a better villain than Kuja, I saw Kuja as a lame attempt (don't forget that I love FFIX) at recreating Sephiroth. Same basic goal: Become a God, destroy the world, Mwa ha ha. Both were genetically created by somebody. Sephiroth, however, expresses his existential crisis in a more believable way, AND has plausible (although muddled) history with Cloud. Say what you want about Cloud, I thought the fact that the game went deep into the deconstruction and reconstruction of his character (or avatar, as Prak calls them) was intensely interesting.

Well, I've had to deal with this sort of nonsense before. A small thing I wrote up on how Kuja and Sephiroth are different in a topic comparing the two. I use quotes and everytything to back it up o here you go. Some of it is opinion but none of it is UNdeniable. Kuja and Sephiroth are not alike in the slightest. They're not even the same race.

Kuja vs. Sephiroth - the confrontation of the silver-haired Playstation sensation...s. Kuja, the poetic yet nearly unknown antagonist of Final Fantasy IX against Sephiroth, the universally-known and giant sword-wielding villain of Final Fantasy VII. There have been two threads like this in the past on this forum but both lacked a nice thorough evaluation of each character. I will provide this as the start for this topic.

SEPHIROTH

Motives- The key to any true good villain is their motivation. Why are they evil? Sephiroth was a noble soldier and war hero, admired by young men. One day, he goes on a mission and reads some books in a secret government laboratory.

Sephiroth: (reading a book) …an organism that was apparently dead, was found in 2000 year old geological stratum. Professor Gast named that organism, Jenova… Year, X Month, X Day. Jenova confirmed to be an Ancient …X Year, X Month, X
Day. Jenova Project approved. The use of Mako Reactor I approved for use… My other's name is Jenova… Jenova Project… Is this just a coincidence? Professor Ga st… Why didn't you tell me anything? …Why did you die?

Short time later...

Sephiroth: Don't you get it? An Ancient named Jenova was found in the geological stratum of 2000 years ago. The Jenova Project. The Jenova Project
wanted to produce people with the powers of the Ancients……no, the Cetra! …I am the one that was produced.


From the lies told him and his own bizarre logic, Sephiroth deduced he was “created” and a test-tube baby. This conveniently severed any ties he had with humanity which he seems to have also fabricated a story for.

Sephiroth: Long ago, disaster struck this planet. Your ancestors escaped… They survived because they hid. The Planet was saved by sacrificing the Cetra. After that, your ancestors continued to increase. Now all that's left of the Cetra is in these reports.

So, Sephiroth’s motives are a righteous hate for humanity. To avenge his “ancestors” and mother, he must kill and “take back” the Planet from humans. He then proceeds to perform his infamous rampage in Nibelheim.

But, isn’t this knowledge invalid? He wasn’t created. He wasn’t a Cetra. The “mother” of his was the real thing that wiped out the Cetra. This is fact. Yet, Sephiroth...

Sephiroth: ...Ah, but I have. I'm far superior to the Ancients. I became a traveler of the Lifestream and gained the knowledge and wisdom of the Ancients.

That is Sephiroth at the Temple of the Ancients. Examine these quotes well. He has gained the knowledge of the Ancients which would include his righteous hate for humanity being non-existent. Thus, his motivation and reasons for going evil are moot.

Power- Now, Sephiroth’s power..what is it? He went into the Lifestream and is now at Northern Crater. He’s stuck there, trapped in materia. His power (never even explained) was the ability to control Jenova’s body and the other Sephiroth clones. In this way, Aeris and the workers at Shinra HQ were killed. Sephiroth himself does absolutely nothing throughout the game except stay stuck in the Crater. His main goal and use of power to attain his goal was Meteor. However, Meteor can be used by anyone.

Aerith: Nope, we can't use it right now. You need great spiritual power to use it.

Cloud: You mean lots of Spiritual energy?

Aerith: That's right. One person's power alone won't do it. Somewhere special. Where there's plenty of the Planet's energy... Oh yeah! The Promised Land!

So, even the “great Sephiroth” to use the terminology of the Sephiroth clones and fans (who have a remarkable likeness in the extent of their brainpower) was incapable of wielding such magic. No one could unless they were at a place of immense power that gave them a big power boost. So, there goes Sephiroth’s amazing power right down the drain.

But, I suppose I should examine Advent Children. He then keeps his consciousness from being assimilated into the Lifestream thanks more to the Jenova cells he was born with than anything else and the three Silver-Haired Men are born. In the end, Kadaj gains Jenova’s head and here is Sephiroth again. His goal now - to traverse the stars using the Jenova cells to contaminate and control the Planet. Again, not his power. Jenova’s. He’s piggybacking on it.

Appearance- Now we al know we are shallow and how a character looks can sway our opinion. Sephiroth is very stereotypical for a villain. Dressed all in black, rather tall and armed with a massive blade, he represents what most villains should look like and what you expect them to look like.

Accomplishments-
Burned down and kill some people in Nibelheim
Used Jenova’s body to kill people in Shinra HQ.
Killed Aeris
Summoned Meteor - failed to achieve goal of this accomplishment
Held off Holy
Came back after being defeated and was defeated again.


KUJA

Motives- Kuja was born a Genome, a specially-designed creature named for a seed used to create them. He was defective, however, and was planned to be disposed of after he had served his purpose of being a placeholder Angel of Death.

Garland: His ambition was unbecoming of a Genome, but it was perfect for the mission I gave him. To bring war and chaos to Gaia...

And so, Kuja’s desires and lust born from his own ideas and egoism were not in accordance with the mission Genomes should hold dear. However, this destructive nature was perfect for Garland.

That was Kuja’s initial motivations, showing he was a natural-born tool of destruction but had ideas of using that destructive might for his own ends. His plan to achieve the power he longed for was thus.

Kuja: You two just don't get it! I need an eidolon more powerful than Alexander! An eidolon with the power to bury Garland! His powers are so incredible; I cannot even come close. I must destroy him before Terra's plan is activated, or my soul will no longer be my own! Who cares if she lives? I want that eidolon!

His goal was to gain the most powerful summon, a summon which could destroy Garland which would both destroy his most powerful and hated nemesis as well as removing the chance his soul would be taken from him. He first used the benevolent Queen of Alexandria, Queen Brahne, to summon Bahamut. Taking control fo Bahamut, he destroyed Queen Brahne and her entire fleet. He then attacked Alexandria with the out-of-control Bahamut but it was destroyed by THE most powerful eidolon, Alexander. When Kuja attempted to seize Alexander however, he was thwarted by Garland. When the new attempt at taking an eidolon from Eiko failed, he concocted a new scheme after witnessing her moogle going into Trance.

Kuja: So...an eruption of anger against one's surroundings induces a complete Trance! It's not the will to live, nor is it the desire to protect another!

Kuja: That means...I simply need a powerful soul, even if that soul is not my own! No, wait... And it can be found there!

Time goes by and the party reaches Terra. Kuja expresses very well how stupid they all are.

Kuja: I must say... I truly love you all. You not only broke the seal to Terra, but did me the favor of defeating Garland!

He then fights the party and they help him even more! They help him go into Trance.

Kuja: It's Trance! You know how it works. But a normal Trance won't be enough to defeat you... You're all as resilient as oglops. Even tiny
moogles possess the power of Trance... When I saw that in Gulug Volcano, I came up with a plan. It was easy. I just needed to borrow the power
from wretched souls that can't die... Where did I acquire it? It was the Invincible, or should I say, that large eyeball in the sky?

So, his plan shifted a good portion through the game and his own brilliance and cunning led to this new plan being a complete success. Well, almost...

Kuja: A mortal...? ...I'm finished? I don't believe you! Why would I believe such a silly story! You're telling me that I'll die soon, now that I'm more powerful than anyone? I'm gonna...die!? Lose my soul...?

Kuja: ...I won't let it happen. I won't... I won't let this world exist without me!

Kuja, who had lived for power, finally had the unrivaled might he sought. However, his life was at an end. He summed it up pretty bluntly later on in the Crystal World

Kuja: Why should the world exist without me? That wouldn't be fair. If I die, we all die!

To an egocentric narcissist, the world should end if they die. If their time has come, then all others have absolutely no right to live.

He then engages in a battle with the party. You could say he was beaten but he then unleashed Ultima which, depending on your own speculation, may have killed the entire party.It’s not known how they got before Necron in such a place resembling a spiritual door or afterlife as well as members of the party having to give their power to the others so they may battle.

Power- Kuja’s power is truly immense. A mage of immense proportions, he was able to create the entire Black Mage race and the Mistodons to be used against his opponents. His power was so great, he let himself be openly targeted and hit by a straight blast from Bahamut and merely laughed at it. He then survived a blast from the Invincible, the most powerful weapon in Final Fantasy IX, and survived. His main noticeable power is his incredible intellect which allowed him to manipulate a continental war that cost thousands of deaths by using a kind queen. Not mind control but actual manipulation which is a bit more difficult as you must use your brain to make the person act in accordance with your objective. This power also allowed him also to conceive of the plan of using the Invincible to achieve his full power. He thus became a demi-god, a being nearly more powerful than any other in an RPG short of Id and Lavos.

Appearance- Kuja’s appearance is said to be “feminine.” Not only is his face not feminine in the least but nice hips and a thong makes him a great villain. Why, you may ask. Well, do you see the guy in the thong with make-up as the ultimate villain who brings about mass death and chaos? No? Well then, that works perfectly. Besides, a lot of guys wear thongs. It’s nothing that special. Any number of characters may wear thongs under their pants but you can’t see it. Kuja is in love with his own idea of his superiority which would translate into his gladly displaying his body. A narcissist is in love with his appearance.

Accomplishments-
Used Queen Brahne to devastate Burmecia, killing dozens there. Used Brahne to destroy Cleyra, killing everyone there. Used Brahne to attack Lindblum and kill many there.
Created the Black Mages, a race born for warfare and death.
Anticipated and used Queen Brahne one final time to summon Bahamut. Then corrupted Bahamut and destroyed Brahne and her fleet.
Formulated quickly and then put into action his Trance Plan which gave him more power than any other being on the planet.
Created the Chaos Guardians, Memoria and Deathguise.

conclusion

Kuja beats Sephiroth in motivation, appearance, power and accomplishments.



-------------

And I respect Prak. He's a very smart person. I do not agree with his method of arguing which generally involves insulting opposition from what I've seen. Such tactics are counter-productive as I know from personal experience. I was unwilling to give into a girl who did have me beat in the debate but because she kept referring to me as a moron and my arguments as idiotic, I couldn't very well just give in. I asked her to stop and she did and I was ready to debate things more calmly with her. Some people are tards and won't give in no matter what, but you'll find people are a lot more willing to hear and accept what you have to say if you don't call them cunts.

Prak
10-31-2006, 08:21 AM
Very nice breakdown of the two characters there. I'll probably be quoting it in the future!

Also, you seem to misunderstand my methods a bit. I regard the people I debate against in one of two ways: worthy opponent or game animal. If someone is capable of putting forth a reasonable and coherent argument, I will most certainly reciprocate. If they cannot, they lose their credibility and become nothing more than an object of mockery as long as they persist. I do occasionally poke at people I'm not familiar with from the start, but only to measure their reactions and determine whether it'll even be worth engaging them in the first place.

The Anti-Existence
10-31-2006, 03:33 PM
Well, thanks. :) Glad you approve.

Anyway, I guess I can understand that. I used to insult people far too much. I've tried my best to rectify that, however. The only people who really can get me swearing or insulting them are people who say Safer Sephiroth's mov e"Supernova" can actually destroy the solar system. In fact, I met a guy I argued with for well over 120 posts who eventually said that it didn't actually destroy solar systems...but it showed that Seph could.

Honestly. But I hear where you are coming from.

ROKI
10-31-2006, 03:59 PM
Dont forget that uja also destroyed Terra ;)

The Anti-Existence
10-31-2006, 04:14 PM
Damn straight he did. That is why he's teh badass. Yes. "Teh." He deserved that typo because teh makes things so much more impressive to me.

seryass
11-08-2006, 10:29 PM
Best FF: FF6
Best male: Zell
Best female: Tifa
Best system(Materia, Junction etc): FF8
Best combat system: FF10
Best story: FF6
Best music: FF6
Best villian: Kefka
Best world map: FF6
Best Airship: Highwind
Best NPC: Gippal
Best mini-game: Triple Triad


Worst FF: FF9
Worst male: Zidane
Worst female: Eiko
Worst system: FF9
Worst combat system: FF9
Worst story: FF7
Worst music: Each game has some good music but for me FF9 has the least amount of music that I like
Worst villian: Necron
Worst world map: FF5
Worst Airship: The airship in FF9
Worst NPC: Most of the characters in FF9 weren't very interesting or likeable
Worst mini-game: Tetra Master

Prak
11-09-2006, 07:30 AM
haha what a biased load of bullshit

Hex Omega
11-09-2006, 08:15 AM
seryass, more like no taste in games!

Jarosik
11-09-2006, 08:18 AM
Post #187

A very articulate, well written and interesting read.

seryass
11-09-2006, 10:34 AM
haha what a biased load of bullshit

seryass, more like no taste in games!

You see this is why I hate posting in certain forums. If people cannot respect other people's individual opinions then what's the point? Did I criticize any of your choices? No. I might not agree with them but you are entitled to your own opinions.

I'm not being biased. Final Fantasy 9 is by far the weakest of the series and that has been proven to be a fact. It sold the least amount of copies. The reviews on Gamefaqs are not as favorable as other entries in the series.

The combat system in FF9 is tolerable at best. The whole 'Trance' system is infuriating as when you need it the most it is never available. It relies a lot on luck. The characters aren't as well polished as some other games. Zidane originally comes off as a brash, cocky, arrogant kid which I could care less for. Eiko is plain irritating with her constant attention grabbing, Quina is annoying and Amarant is too cold and distant to even bother with. The whole point of any series (whether it be game, animation, movie etc) is too sympathize and care for the characters. In FF9's case there weren't many likeable characters and considering the whole game revolves around them that isn't a very good start. The only ones I really liked who Freya, Vivi and Garnet along with Kuja as the villain. This is my opinion and I'm sure you will have different opinions of characters.

FF9's combat system is virtually like FF7's in turn based style. FF8 and FF10 have the a very unique style which had never been done before. You might not like it but you have to admit that it is unique

Don't get me started on FF9's mini game Tetra Master which is widely regarded as being vastly inferior to the Triple Triad game.

Hex Omega
11-09-2006, 10:51 AM
You see this is why I hate posting in certain forums. If people cannot respect other people's individual opinions then what's the point? Did I criticize any of your choices? No. I might not agree with them but you are entitled to your own opinions.

Opinions will always be challenged on a public forum.


I'm not being biased. Final Fantasy 9 is by far the weakest of the series and that has been proven to be a fact. It sold the least amount of copies. The reviews on Gamefaqs are not as favorable as other entries in the series.

Sales figures prove its the weakest do they? By that logic, FFVII is the strongest and that statement has been shredded countless times.




The combat system in FF9 is tolerable at best. The whole 'Trance' system is infuriating as when you need it the most it is never available.

You can quite easily fight random battles before a big battle to build up the Trance guage. And instead of one anti-climatic attack, you get a sustained bonus.


It relies a lot on luck.

No it doesn't.


The characters aren't as well polished as some other games.

What an absurd statement. The characters in FFIX are very strong, the storyline makes sense, and the game has an outstanding villian in Kefka.


Zidane originally comes off as a brash, cocky, arrogant kid which I could care less for.

No he doesn't, Zidane for me is an instantly likeable character with a lot of admirable traits.


In FF9's case there weren't many likeable characters and considering the whole game revolves around them that isn't a very good start.

You didn't care as Zidane battled to find out who he was? You didn't care about Blank as he got petrified? You didn't care about whether or not Tantalus made it out of Evil Forrest? You didn't care about the Black Mages being used by Kuja? I could go on all day here......




FF9's combat system is virtually like FF7's in turn based style. FF8 and FF10 have the a very unique style which had never been done before.

No it isn't, FFIX's is much more refined and the Job System is vastly superior to the Materia System.


Don't get me started on FF9's mini game Tetra Master which is widely regarded as being vastly inferior to the Triple Triad game.

I prefer Triple Triad, but i'd be a fool to say that it's 'better' then Tetra Master. I like Triple Triad for it's simplicity, however Tetra Master requires a lot more thought.

Prak
11-09-2006, 10:52 AM
You see this is why I hate posting in certain forums. If people cannot respect other people's individual opinions then what's the point? Did I criticize any of your choices? No. I might not agree with them but you are entitled to your own opinions.

And now we're getting somewhere.


I'm not being biased.

Of course you are. If you can't see it, you're pretty dumb.


Final Fantasy 9 is by far the weakest of the series and that has been proven to be a fact. It sold the least amount of copies. The reviews on Gamefaqs are not as favorable as other entries in the series.

Neither of those is proof. Psychonauts is a wonderful game with a nigh-flawless design, but it sold badly, so your sales point is instantly invalidated. As for the gamefaqs reviews, they are probably largely written by people who were introduced to the series by FFVII and expected FFIX to be more of the same instead of something different. Does this describe you as well?


The combat system in FF9 is tolerable at best.

I will not argue this, but only because I find none of the battle systems in the series to be satisfactory.


The whole 'Trance' system is infuriating as when you need it the most it is never available. It relies a lot on luck.

And why is this a bad thing? Trance is defined by the game as being induced by a powerful surge of emotion. Such a thing does not happen on cue. It is all perfectly relevant within the context of the game. You are comparing it unjustly to features you may have preferred in other games without looking at its functionality on its own merit. Therefore, your opinion on the matter is entirely ignorant.


The characters aren't as well polished as some other games.

I wonder which games you could possibly mean. If you're even considering saying FFVII and/or FFVIII, save a few credibility points and stay silent.


Zidane originally comes off as a brash, cocky, arrogant kid which I could care less for.

So what? That's the way the character is written. The fact that there are elements of the character's personality than are unlikable to you merely shows that the character is adequately fleshed out and not a mere avatar for your own dreams of grandeur.


Eiko is plain irritating with her constant attention grabbing,

See above.


Quina is annoying

See above the above.


and Amarant is too cold and distant to even bother with.

Not even gonna bother fighting with you on that one. I never liked Amarant.


The whole point of any series (whether it be game, animation, movie etc) is too sympathize and care for the characters.

Wrong. Characters are not meant to be sympathized with. They are merely meant to tell an entertaining or enlightening story. If you think that any character in any medium that has a personality flaw is instantly bad, you are a hopeless idiot. Please prove me otherwise so that fruitful discussion may ensue.


In FF9's case there weren't many likeable characters and considering the whole game revolves around them that isn't a very good start.

That's an issue of your own point of view, I'm afraid. Perhaps you would have enjoyed the game more if you looked at the characters properly, as characters instead of avatars for your own mentality. Because you looked at them with that mindset, you found incompatibilities and were displeased. Basically, your ego got in the way. It's your fault, not the game's.


The only ones I really liked who Freya, Vivi and Garnet along with Kuja as the villain. This is my opinion and I'm sure you will have different opinions of characters.

Actually, that you liked those characters is a fact, not an opinion. An opinion is you saying that the game is bad, because such a claim cannot be proven and is, in fact, easily refuted. Facts trump opinions in all situations. What I have presented are facts based on imperical evidence and logical analysis, containing no bias from my personal preferences.


FF9's combat system is virtually like FF7's in turn based style. FF8 and FF10 have the a very unique style which had never been done before. You might not like it but you have to admit that it is unique

FFVIII's was not unlike the system from the previous games at all. It still used an ATB system and was paced similarly. FFX's was borrowed more heavily from existing systems as contained in actual role-playing games such as Dungeons & Dragons, and had actually been implemented in computer games years prior to FFX's release.


Don't get me started on FF9's mini game Tetra Master which is widely regarded as being vastly inferior to the Triple Triad game.

Unjustly regarded, as well. That attitude stems from an unfair comparison made between the games, wherein people favor the more familiar and simplistic game, shunning the one that offers greater depth due to the simple fact that it's different.


EDIT: DAMMIT BRYAN.

Hex Omega
11-09-2006, 11:01 AM
I was waiting for that edit :-*

Psycho_Cyan
11-09-2006, 11:31 AM
Haven't pretty much all of the Onion Kid's arguments been smashed into little pieces at least a dozen times before? I don't know about you guys (Prak and Bryan), but I'm getting really bored with the "huh huh, Trance sucks because you can't save it" crap. Especially after yet another "its my opinon so u cant bash it!" line.

Starscream
11-09-2006, 02:12 PM
won't get you respect from any members with an ounce of intelligence.

I,for one, have huge amounts of respect for Grim
ROFL

Sorry guys, I just noticed this and it's pretty funny, on a random note.

seryass
11-09-2006, 06:50 PM
BRYAN:

Point taken about opinions always being challenged.

Despite what you say sales DO have a say in it. They are not the sole reason that games are regarded as being weak but they do play a big part as games that have sold more are generally more well known and will be talked about a lot more. Don't get me wrong here. A lot of my favorite RPG games haven't even been released outside of Japan and are totally unheard of in America but nevertheless I love them but in terms of the general public they are ignored. It's the way of life and applies to all forms of media. Also FFVII is regarded as the best in the series whether you like it or not as it did introduce the series to the Western market and incidentally (this applies to Prak's response to) FFVII is NOT my favorite game in the series. Having played all of the other games in the series to date I think it is one of the weakest (it's story in particular as it can get very confusing at times).

I must apologize for the mistake I noticed in my post. FFVII was supposed to be the weakest story (for the reason given above) and not FFIX. I will correct that after I have written this.

Point taken about the Trance system but do I want to spend pointless time battling to raise the Trance level to fight a boss especially when the battle systems in the game (as well as the rest of the series - a point I do agree with Prak on) can get very boring. Actually I would rather rely on it to appear in the boss battle to provide more of a challenge so I do stand corrected on this point in that it does at least offer a challenge to the game (in particular for the final boss). Also I do apologize for the "relying on luck" statement I made as I do take your point.

In answer to your question about the likeable characters what I meant was most of the major characters were not very likeable. A lot of the supporting cast were sympathetic and yes I did feel sorry for Blank when he was petrified but they played a very minor role in the story.

Tetra Master does require a lot more thought and effort but therein lies it's problems. Yes a game can require a lot of strategy but Tetra Master's problem is that it requires a vast amount of time and effort to get the hang of which can be a problem when one has to cope with everyday mundanities.

PRAK:

It is not biased. I have given reasons as to why I have not liked certain elements of the game and I do apologize for the mistake I made in saying that it had the weakest story. If I was being biased all of my choices for the wekeast elements of a game in the series would all be for FFIX but they are not. If there were other choices FFIX would win. For instance I think FFIX has by far the best FMVs in the series, it has the best summoned monster graphics, it has the best theme song in the series and has one of the best endings in the series. If I was being biased I would hate everything about it but I do not.

As I have partly said above I did not expect FFIX to be similar to FFVII. In fact I was hoping it wouldn't be since FFVII is one of my least favorite games in the series and FFVII was not my first FF game that I played. FFIV was the first game I played in the series. I do see your point about the Gamefaqs reviews especially since FFVII is unjustly regarded as the best in the series but as mentioned above in my answer to Bryan's comment sales points DO play a part in how successful a game is. The more games sells the more they are talked about. It's sad but true. As stated above some of my favorite RPGs are Japan only games and are totally unheard of outside of Japan. Sales points are not the sole reason for a game's failure but they do play a big role.

In terms of story I do agree with you but in terms of gameplay it can get irritating but as mentioned above it does provide a challenge so point taken.

Point taken about the Trance system. By your definition then FFVIII has a similar situation in that as the characters are near death they experience a last burst of power. I will admit that the Trance system in FFIX can provide a challenge to the game if when you need it the most it isn't accessible but I am not comparing it to other games in the series. For one point the Trance system is fairly unique in that it automatically activates instead of you having a choice when to use it. I have never been a huge fan of limit breaks as I have always felt they can take a lot out of the game (FFVII in particular. Cloud's Omnislash move is vastly overpowered with the right equipment. FFX suffers from this as well). One reason why FFVI is one of my favorite games in the series is that it does not have limit breaks.

In terms of the characters being well polished I most certainly am not thinking of FFVII or FFVIII. I am actually referring to FFIV. The main character is unwittingly responsible for the deaths of Rydia's village and as a result of this she naturally immediately takes a dislike to him. However over time she comes to realize that he was not entirely to blame for the incident and as a character she matures since she is taken to the summoned monster where time flows more quickly and as a result she has aged a bit when we next see her. A few of the characters sacrifice their lives in the hope of saving the world and ultimately Cecil's goal is to atone for his crimes. The main villain is not only revealed to be his brother but is a tool (along with Cecil's best friend Kain) for something far more sinister. FFVI also has interesting and entertaining characters that you can empathize with. FFVII has some of the least polished characters along with FFIX.

Now about Zidane. Fair enough later on in the game he grows up and matures but let's be realistic here. If you were to meet a brash, cocky, arrogant stranger that behaved that way to you would you want to get to know him? People earn respect in life and whatever you may think first apperances count in this day and age. Sadly it's the way things are now. I will admit that he did not irritate me when he started to mature but that is because it's a game and isn't real.

Your wrong about characters. They play an extremely important role in a story. If you tuned into the latest television series and you hated most of the major characeters in it can you honestly say you will keep watching the series? All right you might tune in again to see if the characters get any more interesting and/or likeable but if not you won't watch it no matter how good the story is. Yes characters have flaws (Zell from FFVIII had many flaws - he too was brash and stubborn but it was his honesty and loyalty that made him an interesting character). Fair enough characters are there to tell a story but for the most part if you don't like the characters you generally won't even bother carrying on. Of course there are exceptions to this.

How is not liking a character a view of my own mentality? I recognize the fact that Zidane does mature but he is my least favorite character in the series for the flaws that he has at the beginning. Amarant comes very close to almost beating him. If I was being egotistical I would say that all the characters in the game are poorly written and unlikeable but they are not. I really like Garnet. Like Zidane she grows as a character but the difference between her and Zidane is that she matures far more quickly. Vivi is another character I really like as he wants to find out who or rather what he really is. It is actually through his friendship with Vivi that Zidane begins to learn to take life more seriously. It has been mentioned before but Kuja's background it similiar to Sephiroth's though Kuja is far more interesting as a character and the scene with Zidane and Kujda at the end of the game is sad.

You've totally lost me with your fact and opinion theory. The definition of opinion is "a personal view, attitude or appraisal" which is what my views of the characters are. They are not facts. Facts are definite indicating that Vivi, Garnet and Freya will always be my favorite characters. I might play through the game again and look at characters with a different view and might even prefer certain other characters to the aforementioned ones. This means my opinions can change. If they were facts they would not.

Fair point about the battle system being turned base but I was referring to the whole drawing magic in FFVIII and in FFX's case it's the first time you can switch members in battle.

See my response to Bryan on the Tetra Master game.

Valerie Valens
11-09-2006, 08:01 PM
tl;dr

summarize plz

Hex Omega
11-10-2006, 06:05 AM
Despite what you say sales DO have a say in it. They are not the sole reason that games are regarded as being weak but they do play a big part as games that have sold more are generally more well known and will be talked about a lot more.

Of course, exposure will always lead to games being discussed and talked about. It still doesn't mean they are superior to another, less well-known game or a game that sold less.


Don't get me wrong here. A lot of my favorite RPG games haven't even been released outside of Japan and are totally unheard of in America but nevertheless I love them but in terms of the general public they are ignored. It's the way of life and applies to all forms of media.

That's nice, but what does that have to do with FFIX being a weak game? If anything, that merely reinforces my point.



Also FFVII is regarded as the best in the series whether you like it or not

It's been proven many times, that FFVII is by far the weakest quality wise in the FF series. It is the most popular, but there are reasons for that. Mass marketing being the main one.



Point taken about the Trance system but do I want to spend pointless time battling to raise the Trance level to fight a boss

Is it pointless if it helps you win the battle?


especially when the battle systems in the game (as well as the rest of the series - a point I do agree with Prak on) can get very boring.

Not disagreeing with this, i'm just saying FFIX's battle system, in comparion to other FF titles is pretty strong.





In answer to your question about the likeable characters what I meant was most of the major characters were not very likeable.

Again, this is your personal viewpoint. You cannot deny that the vast majority of FFIX's characters were well written, cohesive and their development throughout the course of the game was logical and not forced.



Tetra Master does require a lot more thought and effort but therein lies it's problems. Yes a game can require a lot of strategy but Tetra Master's problem is that it requires a vast amount of time and effort to get the hang of which can be a problem when one has to cope with everyday mundanities.

Again, personal taste. I prefer Triple Triad, but Tetra Master is far more challenging, better thought out and the effort required far surpasses that of Triple Triad, albeit it is fairly futile as there is little reward to be gained in Tetra Master.

Prak
11-10-2006, 09:04 AM
Just so you know, we use this type of formatting for our posts because it's easier to keep track of the things we're addressing in debates. If you could start using quotes this way, it would make replying much easier.


It is not biased. I have given reasons as to why I have not liked certain elements of the game and I do apologize for the mistake I made in saying that it had the weakest story.

The problem is that you don't make a distinction between personal favorites/dislikes and technically superior/inferior entries. I think that you would come to very different conclusions if you looked at things objectively instead of allowing them to be colored by your personal preferences.


If I was being biased all of my choices for the wekeast elements of a game in the series would all be for FFIX but they are not. If there were other choices FFIX would win. For instance I think FFIX has by far the best FMVs in the series, it has the best summoned monster graphics, it has the best theme song in the series and has one of the best endings in the series. If I was being biased I would hate everything about it but I do not.

Ah, then the failing was more on the part of the factors presented in the thread than your own views. That is interesting and certainly demolishes my allegations of total bias.


As I have partly said above I did not expect FFIX to be similar to FFVII. In fact I was hoping it wouldn't be since FFVII is one of my least favorite games in the series and FFVII was not my first FF game that I played. FFIV was the first game I played in the series. I do see your point about the Gamefaqs reviews especially since FFVII is unjustly regarded as the best in the series but as mentioned above in my answer to Bryan's comment sales points DO play a part in how successful a game is. The more games sells the more they are talked about. It's sad but true. As stated above some of my favorite RPGs are Japan only games and are totally unheard of outside of Japan. Sales points are not the sole reason for a game's failure but they do play a big role.

Perhaps my brain simply isn't moving in the right direction today, but I'm unsure of what the point here is supposed to be, at least in regards to my own. Perhaps you could restate it to make it a bit more clear.


In terms of story I do agree with you but in terms of gameplay it can get irritating but as mentioned above it does provide a challenge so point taken.

Point taken about the Trance system. By your definition then FFVIII has a similar situation in that as the characters are near death they experience a last burst of power. I will admit that the Trance system in FFIX can provide a challenge to the game if when you need it the most it isn't accessible but I am not comparing it to other games in the series. For one point the Trance system is fairly unique in that it automatically activates instead of you having a choice when to use it. I have never been a huge fan of limit breaks as I have always felt they can take a lot out of the game (FFVII in particular. Cloud's Omnislash move is vastly overpowered with the right equipment. FFX suffers from this as well). One reason why FFVI is one of my favorite games in the series is that it does not have limit breaks.

Interestingly enough, FFVI actually introduced the concept of limit breaks. They were called desperation attacks, I believe, and were occasionally usable in place of a standard attack when a character's health was low. Of course, it was a relatively minor and mostly unobtrusive mechanic that many people never even knew about.

However, I entirely agree with you about limit breaks. I don't like them in any of the games they've appeared in since they generally break the game's difficulty.


In terms of the characters being well polished I most certainly am not thinking of FFVII or FFVIII. I am actually referring to FFIV. The main character is unwittingly responsible for the deaths of Rydia's village and as a result of this she naturally immediately takes a dislike to him. However over time she comes to realize that he was not entirely to blame for the incident and as a character she matures since she is taken to the summoned monster where time flows more quickly and as a result she has aged a bit when we next see her. A few of the characters sacrifice their lives in the hope of saving the world and ultimately Cecil's goal is to atone for his crimes. The main villain is not only revealed to be his brother but is a tool (along with Cecil's best friend Kain) for something far more sinister. FFVI also has interesting and entertaining characters that you can empathize with. FFVII has some of the least polished characters along with FFIX.

For the most part, I have to agree with you. However, I do not see such a lack of polish in FFIX's characters. Perhaps you could illustrate why you believe them to be inferior?


Now about Zidane. Fair enough later on in the game he grows up and matures but let's be realistic here. If you were to meet a brash, cocky, arrogant stranger that behaved that way to you would you want to get to know him? People earn respect in life and whatever you may think first apperances count in this day and age. Sadly it's the way things are now. I will admit that he did not irritate me when he started to mature but that is because it's a game and isn't real.

It is a very popular method of fiction writing for the main character to be deeply flawed initially, but mature into a more respectable person. Frankly, it should be expected that such a flawed character will change over the course of a story.


Your wrong about characters. They play an extremely important role in a story. If you tuned into the latest television series and you hated most of the major characeters in it can you honestly say you will keep watching the series? All right you might tune in again to see if the characters get any more interesting and/or likeable but if not you won't watch it no matter how good the story is. Yes characters have flaws (Zell from FFVIII had many flaws - he too was brash and stubborn but it was his honesty and loyalty that made him an interesting character). Fair enough characters are there to tell a story but for the most part if you don't like the characters you generally won't even bother carrying on. Of course there are exceptions to this.

No, I'm afraid you're the one who's wrong, although your case is undeniably well-presented. Well-written characters, even if they conflict with your own sensibilities, are generally enough to keep a person's attention. Case in point: the character of J. R. Ewing on Dallas was a complete bastard that no one in their right mind could sympathize with in the slightest, but he was still one of the show's most popular characters. He was actually called "the man everyone loves to hate," or something of the sort.


How is not liking a character a view of my own mentality? I recognize the fact that Zidane does mature but he is my least favorite character in the series for the flaws that he has at the beginning. Amarant comes very close to almost beating him. If I was being egotistical I would say that all the characters in the game are poorly written and unlikeable but they are not. I really like Garnet. Like Zidane she grows as a character but the difference between her and Zidane is that she matures far more quickly. Vivi is another character I really like as he wants to find out who or rather what he really is. It is actually through his friendship with Vivi that Zidane begins to learn to take life more seriously. It has been mentioned before but Kuja's background it similiar to Sephiroth's though Kuja is far more interesting as a character and the scene with Zidane and Kujda at the end of the game is sad.

I may have been generalizing excessively, but that is a common stigma many people have about video game characters. I certainly think you're looking at it from far too egotistical a perspective, but perhaps it isn't as severe as I had previously thought.


You've totally lost me with your fact and opinion theory. The definition of opinion is "a personal view, attitude or appraisal" which is what my views of the characters are. They are not facts. Facts are definite indicating that Vivi, Garnet and Freya will always be my favorite characters. I might play through the game again and look at characters with a different view and might even prefer certain other characters to the aforementioned ones. This means my opinions can change. If they were facts they would not.

Now this is a topic I never get tired of. Frankly, the entire accepted dichotomy of facts and opinions is bullshit. Everything you've been taught on the subject is nothing but a load of equivalistic nonsense.

There is a fact in everything. Let's say I like Zidane. If I say, "I like Zidane," that is not an opinion. That is a statement of fact. If I said that Zidane is the best character ever created, however, that would still be stated as a fact, but it is clearly inaccurate. Therefore, it is either a statement of suspect validity or an outright lie. You could also classify that as an opinion, but my classification is more accurate and not deceptive.

Following this line of reasoning, opinions are nothing more than distortions or denials of facts, thus they invalidate themselves merely by existing. Sometimes, of course, facts are not obvious and can be the subject of dispute. However, declaring that neither side is wrong on the basis of a "differing opinion" is simply a cop-out method of avoiding the necessary conflict to determine the truth. Of course, it is certainly possible for both sides to be equally correct in some cases, but that is a far cry from nobody being wrong, as it does imply the potential for error on both sides.

I'm going to stop here before this becomes a full-length essay on the topic.


Fair point about the battle system being turned base but I was referring to the whole drawing magic in FFVIII and in FFX's case it's the first time you can switch members in battle.

By that same line of reasoning, you can find differences in FFIX's system. For example, you are often forced to choose between using your most powerful weapons/armor or using lesser gear in order to learn their abilities, which was not a factor in other games.

In the end, such differences are largely cosmetic and really don't affect gameplay greatly.

See my response to Bryan on the Tetra Master game.[/QUOTE]

I'm afraid I cannot regard that response as valid, as it is not a complaint about Tetra Master itself. Rather, it is a complaint about the time you seem to have had to commit to playing it.

seryass
11-10-2006, 06:43 PM
Just so you know, we use this type of formatting for our posts because it's easier to keep track of the things we're addressing in debates. If you could start using quotes this way, it would make replying much easier.

Sorry about that. I normally do but my computer was going extremely slow when I wrote it.


Perhaps my brain simply isn't moving in the right direction today, but I'm unsure of what the point here is supposed to be, at least in regards to my own. Perhaps you could restate it to make it a bit more clear.

Sorry I did get a bit carried away there. I was just upset that because I had negative opinions of FFIX and mentioned Gamefaqs you assumed I was brought into the series via FFVII which I was not. I had been playing them long before that. FFIV was the first game I played.


Interestingly enough, FFVI actually introduced the concept of limit breaks. They were called desperation attacks, I believe, and were occasionally usable in place of a standard attack when a character's health was low. Of course, it was a relatively minor and mostly unobtrusive mechanic that many people never even knew about.

Of which I am one. I never even knew about that and that's my favorite game in the series.



For the most part, I have to agree with you. However, I do not see such a lack of polish in FFIX's characters. Perhaps you could illustrate why you believe them to be inferior?

The two characters I have the most problems with in FFIX are Zidane (at the beginning of the game) and Amarant as both of them rely heavily on cliches. This is also why I don't like Cloud and Squall as they too rely on cliches. Generally in Japanese RPGs I tend to find that the main character usually falls into either of two categories:

1. Brash, playful and/or humorous

or

2. A loner that isolates themselves from the rest of the main characters

Most of the main heroes in the series do fall into one of these categories. Thinking about it I do take the point that Zidane does mature as the game goes on (especially through his friendship with Vivi) and has a complete character change when he realizes that he is falling in love with Garnet. Ultimately he does redeem himself at the end of the game with a very sneaky but humorous plan which does fit in well with his character.

Amarant on the other hand just has no personality or depth whatsoever and is the stereotypical loner. At least Cloud had reasons for acting the way he did and Squall eventually opened up later in the game (again like Zidane through another character - in this case Rinoa).

By this reasoning I do apologize for my harsh atitude towards Zidane. Thinking about it Amarant is by far a weaker character simply because he lacks any character to begin with.


It is a very popular method of fiction writing for the main character to be deeply flawed initially, but mature into a more respectable person. Frankly, it should be expected that such a flawed character will change over the course of a story.

I entirely agree with you here. There are numerous series where this is the case.


No, I'm afraid you're the one who's wrong, although your case is undeniably well-presented. Well-written characters, even if they conflict with your own sensibilities, are generally enough to keep a person's attention. Case in point: the character of J. R. Ewing on Dallas was a complete bastard that no one in their right mind could sympathize with in the slightest, but he was still one of the show's most popular characters. He was actually called "the man everyone loves to hate," or something of the sort.

Again I entirely agree with you about your case in point. Generally speaking you are correct. I am speaking from a personal viewpoint but I do take your point. Indeed well-written characters that have flaws can become very interesting characters. Unfortunately it depends on who's writing for the characters as most television series (especially long-running series) have different writers writing each story.



There is a fact in everything. Let's say I like Zidane. If I say, "I like Zidane," that is not an opinion. That is a statement of fact. If I said that Zidane is the best character ever created, however, that would still be stated as a fact, but it is clearly inaccurate. Therefore, it is either a statement of suspect validity or an outright lie. You could also classify that as an opinion, but my classification is more accurate and not deceptive.

Following this line of reasoning, opinions are nothing more than distortions or denials of facts, thus they invalidate themselves merely by existing. Sometimes, of course, facts are not obvious and can be the subject of dispute. However, declaring that neither side is wrong on the basis of a "differing opinion" is simply a cop-out method of avoiding the necessary conflict to determine the truth. Of course, it is certainly possible for both sides to be equally correct in some cases, but that is a far cry from nobody being wrong, as it does imply the potential for error on both sides.

This is a very interesting and well-written topic that could be discussed in great detail but is not the subject of this thread. Therefore I will say no more about it but I appreciate the thought and effort in your response.


By that same line of reasoning, you can find differences in FFIX's system. For example, you are often forced to choose between using your most powerful weapons/armor or using lesser gear in order to learn their abilities, which was not a factor in other games.

In the end, such differences are largely cosmetic and really don't affect gameplay greatly.

Point taken. Since we both agree that the battle systems are some of the weakest aspects of the gameplay in the series I won't argue this any further.


I'm afraid I cannot regard that response as valid, as it is not a complaint about Tetra Master itself. Rather, it is a complaint about the time you seem to have had to commit to playing it.

As Bryan pointed out this is just my personal viewpoint. The biggest problem I think Tetra Master had was that the rules for the game were only vaguely explained in the game and required the player to learn themselves. Personally for me I didn't have the time to, since when I played the game I was extremely busy as opposed to FFVIII when I wasn't as much. I must admit that this is unfair to Tetra Master and if I ever play it again under less-constricted circumstances then I might enjoy it.

Another complaint which is generally leveled against it (as Bryan has also pointed out) is the lack of any rewards gained from playing it. I personally however disregard this complaint since a game doesn't have to have rewards for playing it. Do board games have rewards for playing them? The rewards for playing any game should mainly be the satisfaction and enjoyment that you get from it. Anything else I consider a bonus.

Finally I want to thank both yourself and Bryan for your intelligent, well-written and articulate responses. There are far too many forums where people just criticize your views, call you obscene names and make unwarranted claims.

Hex Omega
11-11-2006, 02:33 AM
You're quite welcome, anyone who can argue intelligently, and not get abusive or spout total crap, i'm always willing to have a discussion with. By all means, stick around and post in some of the other threads. Unfortunatley, a lot of discussions turn into flame wars or 'its my opinion lol'. The fact that you're willing to see our arguements, earns you a handsome amount of +rep.

Psycho_Cyan
11-11-2006, 10:46 AM
You're quite welcome, anyone who can argue intelligently, and not get abusive or spout total crap, i'm always willing to have a discussion with. By all means, stick around and post in some of the other threads. Unfortunatley, a lot of discussions turn into flame wars or 'its my opinion lol'. The fact that you're willing to see our arguements, earns you a handsome amount of +rep.

+rep? LoL, I just had the funny thought of posters earning RP (rep points) instead of XP. At any rate, to Seryass, I also apologize for my overly harsh post earlier. Now, back to topic.


Amarant on the other hand just has no personality or depth whatsoever and is the stereotypical loner. At least Cloud had reasons for acting the way he did and Squall eventually opened up later in the game (again like Zidane through another character - in this case Rinoa).

I won't argue Amarant's stereotype, but the other stuff I would argue. It's subtile, but during the game, he does learn to depend on others a bit more--the scene where Zidane helps him after he hurt his leg is one example of his development. In Pandemonium, he also tells Zidane off for trying the whole 'loner' schtick himself. While not entirely related, Amarant's subtile change forms a nice dichotomy with Garnet's development into a stronger, more independant woman.

The Anti-Existence
11-11-2006, 02:08 PM
I want to address the issue of "cliche" with Zidane and Amarant. In this day and age, if you are well-versed in most forms of entertainment, it's unlikely you will find something that hasn't been done before. Every character will have something in common with a character in pevious games. Zidane, for instance, is lecherous and light-hearted but not an idiot. Comical, but not moronic. "Virtue... You don't need a reason to help people." The story he shares with Garnet while in the Black Mage village about how, as a youth, he searched out to find a home. When that failed, he wasn't disheartened. He came ot understand that he had a home already with those he cared about. He mixes light-hearted lechery with philosophical discussion. If he did nothing but hit on Garnet and grab her ass for the entirity of the game, it would get old. But he didn't.

And you never did bring up Kuja in your assessment of the characters in the game. I am sick of people saying Necron was a villain. How can anyone really say that? We don't even KNOW what Necron was exactly. He was there for all of one scene and one fight and nothing was given to explore him. There is no reason to even regard Necron as a villain or anything except simply a boss.

seryass
11-11-2006, 06:21 PM
I want to address the issue of "cliche" with Zidane and Amarant. In this day and age, if you are well-versed in most forms of entertainment, it's unlikely you will find something that hasn't been done before. Every character will have something in common with a character in pevious games. Zidane, for instance, is lecherous and light-hearted but not an idiot. Comical, but not moronic. "Virtue... You don't need a reason to help people." The story he shares with Garnet while in the Black Mage village about how, as a youth, he searched out to find a home. When that failed, he wasn't disheartened. He came ot understand that he had a home already with those he cared about. He mixes light-hearted lechery with philosophical discussion. If he did nothing but hit on Garnet and grab her ass for the entirity of the game, it would get old. But he didn't.

And you never did bring up Kuja in your assessment of the characters in the game. I am sick of people saying Necron was a villain. How can anyone really say that? We don't even KNOW what Necron was exactly. He was there for all of one scene and one fight and nothing was given to explore him. There is no reason to even regard Necron as a villain or anything except simply a boss.

I do see your point about Zidane and I entirely agree with you about the idea of "cliche" being standard nowadays. In general "cliches" are the norm in this day and age but one idea that many people deem "old-hat" will always be an idea that is entirely new to someone else.

I agree with you that Necron is a total mystery in the game but the fact that he mentions that he wants to end the world does seem to at least indicate that he has evil intentions (even if he considers them good). To the heroes Necron is evil as he wants to end their world. The world that they have fought so hard to protect. Since we are playing the game from the perspective of the characters and have come to care for not only them but also their world, to me, indicates that Necron is a villain.

I never brought Kuja up in my assessment because he was never brought into the argument. I did mention that I consider Kuja to be one of the most interesting characters in the game but the topic of Kuja has already been mentioned and discussed several times in this thread already.


At any rate, to Seryass, I also apologize for my overly harsh post earlier. Now, back to topic.

I won't argue Amarant's stereotype, but the other stuff I would argue. It's subtile, but during the game, he does learn to depend on others a bit more--the scene where Zidane helps him after he hurt his leg is one example of his development. In Pandemonium, he also tells Zidane off for trying the whole 'loner' schtick himself. While not entirely related, Amarant's subtile change forms a nice dichotomy with Garnet's development into a stronger, more independant woman.

It's OK about your earlier post. Your post wasn't that harsh. I've seen far worse in obscene name-calling.

I do see your point about the subtle character changes in Amarant. Unfortunately though they are few and far between. In comparison Garnet clearly goes through a lot more changes in personality which are vastly more expanded on than Amarant's. He could have been an interesting character but unfortunately he wasn't given any opportunity to be. Most series have at least one character who is vastly underdeveloped as opposed to the rest of the characters and in FFIX's case Amarant is that character.

Psycho_Cyan
11-11-2006, 09:35 PM
Garnet's also one of the main characters, so she'd naturally get more time in the proverbial spotlight. Besides, whoever said a character had to drastically change in order to be properly 'developed?' His personality is completely fleshed out, and by the end, he does wind up "getting it." What more can be asked of an auxillary character? An epic love story?

Shashkana
11-11-2006, 11:27 PM
I guess for now I'll do this, and probably get involved with the debates later. :)

Best FF: Final Fantasy Tactics
Best male: Cloud
Best female: Rikku
Best system(Materia, Junction etc): Sphere Grid - Final Fantasy X
Best combat system: Final Fantasy Tactics
Best story: Final Fantasy VI
Best music: Final Fantasy VII
Best villian: Sephiroth
Best world map: Final Fantasy VII
Best Airship: (The one from Final Fantasy VII)
Best NPC: Rude and Reno (Final Fantasy VII)
Best mini-game: Triple Triad


Worst FF: Final Fantasy IX and IV
Worst male: Cyan
Worst female: Aierth (My opinion...)
Worst system: Sphere Grid (Final Fantasy X-2)
Worst combat system: Not sure...
Worst story: Final Fantasy IX and Tactics Advance
Worst music: Final Fantasy IV
Worst villian: Kefka
Worst world map: Final Fantasy VI
Worst Airship: Unsure
Worst mini-game: Tetra Master

Prak
11-12-2006, 10:41 AM
Seryass, please do not vanish from the forums, for you have earned my coveted seal of approval.


Best male: Cloud
Best villian: Sephiroth
Worst FF: Final Fantasy IX and IV
Worst system: Sphere Grid (Final Fantasy X-2)
Worst story: Final Fantasy IX and Tactics Advance
Worst villian: Kefka
Worst mini-game: Tetra Master

I really would like to know how you justify these.

Considering that Cloud has absolutely no depth at all to his character, it seems an absurd choice. Sephiroth is scarcely more reasonable, considering that his backstory is full of holes, he has almost no personality, and he basically ripped off Kefka's plan, but didn't even manage to succeed like his predecessor did.

FFIX and FFIV are the worst, you say? How so? Be aware that less than rational responses will incur copious amounts of mockery.

X-2 didn't have a sphere grid.

How did IX and Tactics Advance have bad stories?

How Kefka inferior in any shape, form, or fashion to any other villain in the series with the possible exception of Kuja?

How is it that you can call Tetra Master the worst minigame after listing a simpler version of it as the best minigame?

Desert Wolf
11-12-2006, 11:45 AM
he basically ripped off Kefka's plan, but didn't even manage to succeed like his predecessor did.

To be fair Prak, if Sephiroth did actually hit the planet with a meteor then the game would be over pretty much. Kefka became a god but there was still a planet left to defend.

Prak
11-12-2006, 11:54 AM
As I recall, there wasn't really any indication that the meteor would have destroyed the world or anything. In fact, it's probably safe to say that the devastation would probably have been about equal to what Kefka caused.

The Anti-Existence
11-12-2006, 03:27 PM
As Kefka was the only villain in the series to completely achieve all he wante, his superiority in that regard makes him far from the Worst FF villain. I'll admit his lack of story is a clear point but he wasn't meant to be an empathized or understood villain. He's like Bowser- do you want to know how Bowser became a tyrannical turtle/dragon/Koopa and everything? It's more about what he actually does in the time of the game. Kefka, in teh time of the game, did an amazing list of things that are astounding in their sheer wickedness and sadism. And not good sadism like getting your jollies off whipping someone. Bad sadism like getting your jollies off wiping out entire population centers.

Now, a bad villain? Let's see. There is a good list of them. Shuyin for one. I know me and Prak disagree a lot oN FFX-2 but even he would readily admit Shuyin is a far more suitable choice to Worst FFF Villain, i assume. And with Shuyin in list of villains there is Maester Kinoc who apparently was a guy who wa sso evil and so cunning that he formulated many evil and cunning schemes but was too much a chump to even try and do any of them.

Desert Wolf
11-12-2006, 03:33 PM
As I recall, there wasn't really any indication that the meteor would have destroyed the world or anything. In fact, it's probably safe to say that the devastation would probably have been about equal to what Kefka caused.

If it hit it would have pretty much destroyed everything and not to mention made Sephiroth invincible. So how could he have achieved his goal? Just because kefka set his sights a little lower doesnt mean hes so much better.

The Anti-Existence
11-12-2006, 03:42 PM
Who said invincible? how is he invincible? All he would have done is sucked up all the life of the planet. Which is what Kefka essentially did. When he drained the Goddess Statues, life on the world started to die. And what invincibility are you talking about? All he would have been is the supreme being on a signel planet. Any number of beings can destroy an entire planet under their own power such as...Kuja.

*Meteor hits*

Sephiroth: I AM A GOD!!!

Kuja blows away the planet and then does a little grind for yaoi fans.

It's pretty much that simple.

Desert Wolf
11-12-2006, 03:45 PM
Well maby unstopable is a better word to use since Cloud and the rest would be all dead. Hence the stopping him so the game could have a happy ending.

Hex Omega
11-13-2006, 05:22 AM
And how do you know that for sure? Baseless assumptions don't hold a lot of water. Kefka drained the statues and became a demi-god. He succeded in his objective. The fact that he was eventually defeated is irrelevant.

ThroneofOminous
11-13-2006, 06:01 AM
Why is it that so many discussions on the subject of ‘which villain is the best/worst’ here ultimately leads back to ‘who destroyed the most shit’ or ‘who was the most powerful’? Surely the success of a villain should be based upon how successful the writers were in making the character seem, well, villainous. Body-count and powers shouldn’t be their defining attributes. The only villain I can think of that is highly regarded almost purely because he was uber-powerful was Grahf from Xenogears.

The Anti-Existence
11-13-2006, 07:10 AM
Grahf wasn't that strong. Based on showings, anyway. All he mainly did was give people strength. And the fights you had with him weren't all that intriguing. Save for when he fights you all outise his Gear and then when he whoops you in Alpha Weltall.

Well, a mark of how great a villain is depends somewhat on what they achieve. How can anyone say Villain A is so uber if, at the end, he hardly did anything? Sure he had a huge grandiose sceheme for dominationg the world, but not so much as one city fell because of him. No real threat or devastation was seen in the world at the end of his quest for power.

That's how it is. The villain needs to have a decent effect on the world or theri status as villain is lessened. If they don't actually do much of anything and their goal is never reached, your left with pretty much nothing to remember them by. People like Kefka and Kuja, the world was blown half apart and plunged into panic and despair at their actions.

And on top of that, I like Kuja for reasons beyond what he actually did. I like him for his character and depth. His dialogue and personality. He simply radiated what a villain should be; arrogant, cruel and smiling at loss of life.

ThroneofOminous
11-13-2006, 07:44 AM
Yeah, I was mainly referring to the earlier battles where Grahf completely owns your party on foot. The final battle with him was pretty pathetic really.

I’m not saying that body-count/powers aren’t important in establishing villainy; I’m saying that far too great a focus is being placed in it. If you look at the list of villains that have been considered the greatest ever ( [Only registered and activated users can see links]), the ones that top the list aren’t necessarily the most powerful villains out there. Hannibal Lecter, while a psychopathic serial killer, isn’t some planet-destroying entity. While Darth Vader is pretty damn powerful, there are stronger entities in the Star Wars universe. In addition, Darth Vader is seldom remembered for the people he killed over his ominous presence.

I just feel that if you’re going to compare villains, the focus should be on their character rather than how many thousands of people they killed. It’s neat how Kefka fucked up the planet and all but that’s not nearly as remembered as his quirky one-liners or comic laugh.

Midnight Fox
12-12-2006, 12:22 AM
Best FF: Final Fantasy VI
Best male: Shadow
Best female: Dagger/Garnet
Best system: Materia & Final Fantasy IX
Best combat system: Final Fantasy VI
Best story: Final Fantasy VI
Best music: Final Fantasy IX
Best villian: Sephiroth
Best world map: Final Fantasy VI
Best Airship: Big Whale
Best NPC: Stiltzkin
Best mini-game: Triple Triad


Worst FF: Final Fantasy VIII
Worst male: Tidus
Worst female: Yuna
Worst system: Junction
Worst combat system: Final Fantasy II
Worst story: Final Fantasy X
Worst music: None
Worst villian: Yu'Yevon
Worst world map: Final Fantasy X
Worst Airship: Final Fantasy X
Worst mini-game: Tetra Master

Lukey
12-15-2006, 06:52 AM
I can't believe I have consistently over-looked this gem! That was a fine argument, even if this Grim dude denies it was an argument.

Best FF: FFIX
Best male: Vincent; I know I have been very anti-FFVII in the past but I really loved this guy. I haven't played DC or read up about him in other places, so I don't know his full story apart from what is given to us in VII, but it's not really his story that I adore, just his presence and his style. Very appealing.
Best female: Rikku; unlike with the male characters of the series, there are very few females in FF that I find interesting or appealing. Garnet, Quistis, Terra and maybe Yuna are the only other FF girls I actually liked. Rikku is my favourite because she is the token bubbley character of the X games yet I don't find her annoying or overdone at all. And unlike most of the other minor PCs of the FF series, she isn't pushed into obscurity after being introduced; she plays a consistently vital role throughout the whole story.
Best system: The Dressphere system is definitely a favourite of mine, and not just because of the different costumes or ridiculous range of abilities available, but because it played a part in the story as well (yes I enjoyed X-2's story =P). I suppose the Junction system of VIII also did this aswell, yet there it just seemed simple and tacked on, and I'm not very favourable of the GF/Junction system anyway.
Best combat system: Would have to go with X-2 again, because it was fast-paced and out of all the games that utilised it, this one made the best use of the ATB system. Plus, this is the only game in which I actually enjoyed the random battles, so that has to count for something. I suppose I am also a fan of the the thoroughness of X's battle system, and the way every action had positive and negative effects on the outcome of the pace of the battle.
Best story: This is a very close one between IX, VI and X. IX's mainly because I liked its combination of mythology and literature, VI's because it was a lot darker than usual (and the world was actually ruined in this one) and X because I loved the idea of the Summoner's pilgrimage etc. IX and VI somewhat expanded on ideas of summoning and Eidolons/Espers in its story, yet X incorporated them in to the game religion and I loved that. I also appreaciated how, in FFX, the characters weren't trying to save the world from annihalation, just mainly from a pest to make life more comfortable for everyone. X wins.
Best music: Definitely FFIX. Especially the numerous different versions of Melodies of Life within the game. I did not actually notice that so many of the game's songs contain MoL until after a few play-throughs.
Best villian: Kuja, because he was so poetic.
Best world map: I don't generally think of World Maps as important aspects of a game, but I would have to say FFVII's, because I liked the music.
Best Airship: The Farenheit, only because it looked the best. Ragnarok looked cool too, but it was super slow.
Best NPC: Fujin, of Fujin & Raijin. She acted like a pirate the whole game, and then bam, she's handing out wisdom as if it were on sale.
Best mini-game: Sphere Break, because it was mathematical fun.


Worst FF: FFVIII. I love this game, it was my first FF ever, I know shit-loads about it and I still play it now and then, but it's definitely the poorest of the series. If a different FF was my first then I would probably have no love whatsoever for this one. Though I do love the scene between Rinoa and Squall in FH during the band thing :swoon:
Worst male: Cloud. Heavens to Betsy, this character has no character.
Worst female: Rinoa, that scene I mentioned is her only redeeming feature. She is annoying and she ruins the story and just gets in everyone's (especially Quistis') way.
Worst system: The Junction system makes the game far too easy to beat. Most storyline bosses can be killed in one hit if you take a little time to work up your strength. And don't get me started on the weapons.
Worst combat system: FFIX or VI. I love these games but their battles are so slow. Out of all the games I get annoyed by the random battles of these two the most.
Worst story: FFVII has the least interesting story because it is so predictable. I know that most of the FF titles consist of the main characters scouring the globe chasing after the main villain, but at least in those there were other elements of the plot that intertwined with the great chase and maintained interest. VII was just one big race for the truth which, ultimately, is not enough to warrant entertaining fan-fiction, let alone a genuinely boring and worthless film.
Worst music: It's far from being bad, but FFX-2 probably had the least entertaining/moving music.
Worst villian: Haha, yes. Sephiroth.
Worst world map: VIII's, because the music was annoying, the camera was shakey and the vehicles (rented cars, Balamb Garden and Ragnarok) were all incredibly slow.
Worst Airship: What I just said
Worst mini-game: Blitzball would be, but it gets you AR and the World Champion, so this would have to go to Tetra Master. Incredibly boring, yet it does wield you a Rebirth Ring.

I think I am the only one thus far to answer this in sentence format!

Synthia
12-15-2006, 07:46 PM
Best FF: FF6
Best male: Balthier
Best female: Ashe
Best system: FFTactics/FFTA
Best combat system: FFXII
Best story: Final Fantasy VI
Best music: FFVI
Best villian: Kefka (Destroyed the entire world. Any other questions?)
Best world map: Final Fantasy VI (Two entire maps to explore!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)
Best Airship: FF6
Best NPC: Migelo (ftw)
Best mini-game: Triple Triad (Only reason I played 8)


Worst FF: Final Fantasy VIII
Worst male: Squall
Worst female: Selphe
Worst system: Junction
Worst combat system: FF8 (Only summons are good, and 3 minute summon time woo)
Worst story: FF8
Worst music: FF1
Worst villian: Garland (FF1)
Worst world map: Don't care. FFX I guess.
Worst Airship: FFX/XI/XII is a tie. You can't PILOT it!!!!
Worst mini-game: Chocobo Breeding (FFVII)

Zulu
12-15-2006, 08:31 PM
Best FF: Final Fantasy VIII & FFIX
Best male: Zidane
Best female: Julia Heartilly would be my initial choice, but otherwise Reina
Best system: Final Fantasy IX
Best combat system: Final Fantasy VII
Best story: Final Fantasy VII
Best music: Final Fantasy VIII & FVII
Best villian: Kuja
Best world map: Final Fantasy IX
Best Airship: Final Fantasy VIII
Best NPC: Julia Heartilly
Best mini-game: Chocobo Race (FFVII)


Worst FF: Final Fantasy X-2
Worst male: Tidus
Worst female: Rinoa
Worst system: Final Fantasy VIII
Worst combat system: Final Fantasy II
Worst story: Final Fantasy I
Worst music: Final Fantasy I
Worst villian: Garland
Worst world map: Final Fantasy X
Worst Airship: Final Fantasy I-IV
Worst mini-game: None. I like all of them

Chrissss
12-15-2006, 09:14 PM
Best FF: IX and X
Best male: Vivi
Best female: Beatrix. All the way.
Best system: ?
Best combat system: XII
Best story: IX, X or Tactics.
Best music: VII or IX
Best villian: The Turks, VII
Best world map: VII or IX
Best Airship: VII, cause the bikini goddess.
Best NPC: Raine Loire, VIII
Best mini-game: Snowboarding, VII


Worst FF: none yet, but X-2 comes close.
Worst male: Zell, VIII
Worst female: Eiko, IX
Worst system: ?
Worst combat system: 1,lol. I miss on the nintendo version constantly.
Worst story: none yet.
Worst music: X
Worst villian: Queen Brahne, IX
Worst world map: X
Worst Airship: X
Worst mini-game: Sub game, VII

Arcanine
12-16-2006, 03:44 AM
Best FF: XI
Best male: Zidane
Best female: Ceres
Best system(Materia, Junctions, etc): FFIX
Best combat system: XI
Best story: Tactics
Best music: X
Best villian: Garland
Best world map: X
Best Airship: Hilda Garde II
Best NPC: Raine
Best mini-game: Jump Rope (IX; my inability to exceed 300 jumps is intriguing)


Worst FF: Origins.
Worst male: Wakka
Worst female: Aeris
Worst system: VIII
Worst combat system: Origins.
Worst story: Origins.
Worst music: Origins.
Worst villian: Brahne
Worst world map: IV
Worst Airship: Invincible (ugly like radiation-proof-tin-foil-headgear)
Worst mini-game: Arcade Snowboarding (User-friendly it is not)

PsiGuy60
05-01-2008, 10:47 AM
Best FF: FF3.
Best male protagonist: Locke. ("I PREFER the term "Treasure hunter"!" Classic)
Best female protagonist: Refia (FF3) (Luneth: "Slacking off saved her from the curse, so maybe some of that "Luck" will rub off on us!" Refia: "Hey, that's not funny!")
Best system: FF3, the Jobs came from it...
Best battle system: All except Revenant Wings (I hated that system)
Best story: FFIV. I like how the story builds up, so to speak.
Best music: FF5. Clash on the Big Bridge = classic.
Best villain: Gilgamesh. Even though he wasn't the main antagonist, he was pretty cool.
Best world map: FFVI, because it had two.
Best Airship: Nautilus, because it was the most practical.
Best NPC: Elder Topapa.
Best minigame: Triple Triads.

Worst FF: FF2. Difficulty sucked.
Worst male protagonist: The nameless characters from FF1. I prefer them to have a little background.
Worst female protagonist: Tie between Yuffie and Maria.
Worst system: FF2. It ramped up on difficulty because you had to level each skill individually, and they would get you on your worst skill somewhere.
Worst battle system: Revenant Wings. It doesn't play like a true Final Fantasy.
Worst story: FF1. It had virtually no story.
Worst music: All FF music is great, but Dancing Mad was the worst.
Worst villain: Exdeath. He's the typical "evil wizard trying to destroy the world but ending up being owned by it".
Worst world map: FFX had virtually no world map to begin with.
[Only registered and activated users can see links]
Worst NPC: Princess Hilda. In my humble opinion she was cold as ice.
Worst minigame: chocobo racing, hands down.

Slavka
05-01-2008, 02:33 PM
Check how old the thread is before you post. We don't need more ancient threads brought up.

All Seeing Eye
05-01-2008, 05:46 PM
Best FF: FFIV
Best male: Cecil
Best female: Rydia
Best system: FFXII
Best combat system: FFXII
Best story: FFIX
Best music: FFIV
Best villian: Garland
Best world map: FFVI
Best Airship: Giant Whale (from FFIV)
Best NPC: Cid (from FFIX)
Best mini-game: FFVII Cloud dates


Worst FF: FFVII
Worst male: Vann (FFXII)
Worst female: Penelo (FFXII)
Worst system: FFI
Worst combat system: FFI
Worst story: FFXII
Worst music: FFVII (One Wing Angel, isn't enough)
Worst villian: Sephiroth
Worst world map: FFI
Worst Airship: Ragnarok
Worst mini-game: The card game from FFX-2

Ngrplz
05-01-2008, 06:25 PM
I love this thread!

Best FF: FFVI
Best male: Balthier
Best female: Terra
Best system: FFX
Best combat system: FFVI / FFIX
Best story: Final Fantasy VI
Best music: FFVI (dancing mad ftw)
Best villian: Kefka (Destroyed the entire world. Any other questions?)
Best world map: Final Fantasy VI (Two entire maps to explore!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)
Best Airship: FFIX
Best NPC: Marquis Ondore
Best mini-game: Triple Triad & Gold Saucer! I can't decide!


Worst FF: Final Fantasy X-2
Worst male: Squall
Worst female: Rikku
Worst system: Junction
Worst combat system: FF8 (Only summons are good, and 3 minute summon time woo)
Worst story: FF8
Worst music: FF1
Worst villian: Seymour
Worst world map: Spira
Worst Airship: FFX/XI/XII is a tie. You can't PILOT it!!!!
Worst mini-game: Chocobo Breeding (FFVII)

buuten
05-05-2008, 11:06 PM
Best FF: FFIV
Best male: Kain
Best female: Terra
Best system(Materia, Junction etc): FF7
Best combat system: FF12
Best story: FF6
Best music: FF4
Best villian: Kefka
Best world map: FF7
Best Airship: Highwind
Best NPC: Hojo
Best mini-game: Triple Triad


Worst FF: FFV
Worst male: Bartz
Worst female: Yuna in FFX-2
Worst system: FFVIII
Worst combat system: FF11
Worst story: FF8
Worst music: None have failed me yet.
Worst villian: omg why won't anyone say Nercron...
Worst world map: FF2
Worst Airship: Ragnarok
Worst mini-game: FF8 Triad (FF9 version had more depth.)

Turx
05-06-2008, 01:53 PM
Best FF: FFIX
Best male: Zidane
Best female: Garnet
Best system: FFIX
Best combat system: FFVII
Best story: FFIX
Best music: FFVII
Best villian: Kuja
Best world map: FF6
Best Airship: Highwind
Best NPC: Hojo
Best mini-game: none


Worst FF: FFVIII
Worst male: Zell
Worst female: Yuffie
Worst system: FFVIII
Worst combat system: FFVIII
Worst story: FF8
Worst music: Stupid Question.
Worst villian: Sephiroth. (just because i'm a punk)
Worst world map: IDK
Worst Airship: Ragnarok
Worst mini-game: ALL OF THEM

Harkus
05-08-2008, 11:08 AM
Best FF: FFIX
Best male: Zidane
Best female: Lulu
Best system: FFIX
Best combat system: FFVII
Best story: FFIX
Best music: FFX
Best villian: Kuja
Best world map: FFVII
Best Airship: Highwind
Best NPC: Kuja
Best mini-game: Blitzball


Worst FF: FFII
Worst male: Cyan
Worst female: Rikku
Worst system: FFVIII
Worst combat system: FFVIII
Worst story: FFI
Worst music:
Worst villian: Sephiroth
Worst world map: FFX
Worst Airship: whatever it was called in XII
Worst mini-game: Chocobo hot and cold

Slavka
05-08-2008, 02:53 PM
Best FF: FFXII
Best male: Vincent
Best female: Lulu
Best system: FFVII
Best combat system: FFXII
Best story: FFXII
Best music: FFVII
Best villain: Gabranth
Best world map: FFVII
Best Airship: Highwind
Best NPC: Larsa
Best mini-game: Blitzball (FFX)


Worst FF: FFIII
Worst male: Vaan
Worst female: Aeris
Worst system: FFVIII
Worst combat system: FFVIII
Worst story: FFIII
Worst music: FFX-2
Worst villian: Shuyin
Worst world map: FFX
Worst Airship: Fahrenheit
Worst mini-game: Thunder-Dodging

Hynad
05-11-2008, 02:41 PM
Since it has been reborn...

Best FF: FF IV
Best male: Cecil
Best female: Terra/Tina
Best leveling system: FF IX (which basically mixes the system of IV and VI together)
Best battle system: FF X-2
Best story: FF VI
Best music: FF VI
Best villain: Golbez
Best world map: FF VI
Best Airship: The Big Whale (FF IV)
Best NPC: Larsa Solidor
Best mini-game: Sphere Break (FF X-2)

Worst FF: FF III
Worst male: Zell Dinch
Worst female: Yuffie
Worst leveling system: FF II
Worst battle system: FF X
Worst story: FF X-2
Worst music: FF V
Worst villain: Ultimecia
Worst world map: That's a ridiculous question.
Worst Airship: Cid's Airship (FF III)
Worst mini-game: Catcher Chocobo (FF X)

Ceidwad
05-11-2008, 03:29 PM
Time to update since we now have FFXII (and also, looking at my last post in this thread - two years ago......well, my opinions have changed somewhat, to say the least. Heck, back then, it seems I thought FFVIII was a semi-respectable game. :facepalm: )

Best FF: FFX
Best male: Steiner (FFIX), Larsa (FFXII), Wakka (FFX/X-2)
Best female: Lulu (FFX), Beatrix (FFIX)
Best leveling system: FFX, since it at least tried something different from the whole 'get X amount of exp and level up, gaining preset stat boosts'.
Best battle system: FFX-2 or FFXII
Best story: FFX
Best music: FFVII or FFVIII
Best villain: Kuja (FFIX)
Best world map: FFIX, I suppose.
Best Airship: Celsius
Best NPC: Jecht
Best mini-game: FFX Blitzball

Worst FF: FFVIII
Worst male: Irvine (FFVIII)
Worst female: Penelo (FFXII)
Worst leveling system: FFVIII, as it generally rewards you for not levelling.
Worst battle system: FFVIII
Worst story: FFVIII or FFX-2
Worst music: FFX or FFX-2
Worst villain: Ultimecia
Worst world map: FFX
Worst Airship: Invincible (FFIX)
Worst mini-game: Thunder dodging (FF X)

doomjockey
05-11-2008, 04:13 PM
Best FF: FFVI
Best male: Cyan
Best female: Terra
Best system: FFX
Best combat system: FFXII
Best story: FFVI
Best music: FFVI
Best villain: Sephiroth. (Kidding, I'm not sure yet.)
Best world map: No contest: FFXI
Best Airship: Uh, the Ragnarok? Seriously, who cares.
Best NPC: Delita, if he counts. If not... Ultros?
Best mini-game: Blitzball in FFX


Worst FF: Mystic Quest
Worst male: Irvine
Worst female: Penelo
Worst system: FFXII
Worst combat system: FFIV
Worst story: FFV
Worst music: FFXI
Worst villain: The Emperor (FFII)
Worst world map: None.
Worst Airship: FFX and on. Since there's no world map to fly over, what's the use?
Worst mini-game: Blitzball in FFX-2

Also, I'm not sure I understand what's wrong with FFVIII's leveling system. It's non-standard for most RPGs sure, but why the worst?

Red Arremer
05-11-2008, 04:21 PM
Best FF: FFVI
Best male: Edward (FFIV)
Best female: Edea (FFVIII)
Best leveling system:FFV
Best battle system: FFVI
Best story: FFIV
Best music: FFVI
Best villain: Exdeath (FFV)
Best world map: FFV World 2 & 3
Best Airship: The Falcon (FFVI)
Best NPC: The Wolfmen (FFV)
Best mini-game: I hate minigames >.<

Worst FF: FFVII
Worst male: Wakka
Worst female: Rosa
Worst leveling system: FFVII
Worst battle system: FFVIII
Worst story: FFVII (a copy of FFVI with a few changed. D: )
Worst music: FFVII
Worst villain: Sephiroth
Worst world map: FFVIII
Worst Airship: Highwind (FFVII)
Worst mini-game: ALL! D:<

Oh my, do we have a tendency here? :>

Turx
05-11-2008, 08:00 PM
LOL.

Skunk, you're asking for death via fanboys.

Red Arremer
05-12-2008, 02:47 AM
I can live with that. Besides, fanboys would never kill a girl, especially one cosplaying video game characters. They would drool after her and try to have her make out with them - which never will happen. :>

FainaruFantaji
05-12-2008, 09:39 AM
Best FF: FFVIII
Best male: Laguna Loire
Best female: Paine
Best leveling system: FFVI
Best battle system: FF XII
Best story: FFVIII/X [Sorry guys, I couldn`t pick one out of those]
Best music: FF VI
Best villain: Seymour
Best world map: No idea. I won`t answer it.
Best Airship: Ragnarok
Best NPC: Xu [FFVIII]
Best mini-game: ---I hate mini games---

Worst FF: FFIV
Worst male: Quina [if it is a male character] and if it`s not then Kuja.
Worst female: Aerith [You don`t even know how much I hate her]
Worst leveling system: FFX
Worst battle system: FFIV [at least as far as I played]
Worst story: FF X-2
Worst music: FFIII
Worst villain: Rufus Shinra [too gay]
Worst world map: ---no comments---
Worst Airship: Balamb Garden [if it can be called an airship at all]
Worst mini-game: Blitzball