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View Full Version : FF7:AC - Why it ISN'T a good movie.



Prak
11-04-2005, 12:39 AM
With all the hype and fanboy reactions, it can be hard to find out the truth about the movie. Well, I'm here to tell you that anyone with a hint of appreciation for good filmmaking is going to find Advent Children appalling. Why, you ask? Here's why:



Story (spoilers)

When I label this segment "story," I use the term very loosely. There basically is none. What little exists is:

A. Badly written: The main characters speak with all the imagination and creativity of a preschooler's attempt at fanfiction. All they say (aside from utterly pointless battle lines) is exactly what is required to move the story (if you can call it that) from point A to point B. They display no depth beyond archetypal moods. None of the loose ends from the game are resolved. New loose ends are created, making the FFVII universe even more of a jumbled mess than it already was.

B. Transparent: Almost from the moment the movie begins, it is obvious that the entire point of it is to bring Sephiroth back to life for another flashy battle and to show off all the characters in pretty graphics. Nothing comes as a surprise, except for one or two in-jokes that Final Fantasy fans alone will appreciate. And then, those have been so heavily spoiled that they're not likely to catch anyone off guard.

C. Contradictory: What happened to Cloud? Why is he back to being such a moody, grumpy loner after getting over all that by the end of the game?

Anyone who says the movie had a good story is an idiot or an irredeemable fanboy.


Visuals

In a word, overhyped. Sure, things look fairly pretty when they're not in motion, but it all falls to pieces in the action scenes. The character models degenerate into barely more than Barbie and Ken dolls. On top of that, the detail is a noticable step down from the standard set by The Spirits Within. Considering that TSW is several years old now, shouldn't they have been able to at least match their previous work?

As for the aforementioned action sequences, it mostly looks like they were directed by a collaborative effort between Rob Cohen and Uwe Boll. Absurdly fast cuts are used excessively, making it hard to follow what's happening. At first glance, it seemed to me like it was detracting from those scenes, but on closer inspection, I noticed that there really wasn't anything happening at all. It would use three rapid cuts just to show Cloud making a simple turn on his bike in an attempt to make it seem like a complicated maneuver. That trend is upheld in all the action scenes. When you trace the movements, they really have practically no complexity at all.


Audio

The music was mostly decent enough. At the very least, there's nothing to complain about there. However, the character voices were terrible. It sounded like nearly every one of them was simply reading lines off a page, with no regard at all to actual acting. Some actors aren't absolutely deadpan in their delivery, but they still follow archtypal models and display no variance in their voices.

The long FMV argument

Some people try to justify a lot of what I've just talked about by saying that the movie was less of a movie than a long FMV. Bullshit. It is advertised and marketed as a movie. Money is being charged for it, just like a movie. It even had a limited theatrical release. It is a movie. It is a crappy one at that.

It has absolutely zero merit as a stand-alone film because of its inaccessibility to people who haven't played the game. However, it is still going to be marketed to them through the movie's mainstream release. People who are unfamiliar with the Final Fantasy games will be picking it up, perhaps due to the pretty-looking graphics or their experience with TSW. They're going to be in for a major disappointment due to the disjointed story, lack of acting talent, and visual failures. Unless the movie comes with a big sticker that says, "DON'T WATCH THIS MOVIE IF YOU HAVEN'T PLAYED THE FINAL FANTASY VII VIDEO GAME," Square-Enix are absolute pricks to release it that way.


Now, fill in the gaps I've left and show more ways the movie sucks. Or, if you're a hopeless fanboy, you can try to argue with me. Or just maybe, someone will learn something from this, notice that they've been a fanboy, and renounce their wicked ways.

nkwp
11-04-2005, 03:01 AM
The music was mostly decent enough. At the very least, there's nothing to complain about there. However, the character voices were terrible. It sounded like nearly every one of them was simply reading lines off a page, with no regard at all to actual acting. Some actors aren't absolutely deadpan in their delivery, but they still follow archtypal models and display no variance in their voices.

I agree with most of the points you made above except for this. The voice acting part was true, the characters sounded really plastic and hollow.
However the music (OST) was not decent in my opinion. It was shit, Uematsu should be shot for putting out such a shit piece of work. Even the OST arrangers could not save it from being so shit.

I think The Spirits Within was a much better movie in terms of story, music (Elliot Goldenthal) and visuals. However when this movie comes out I am still going to invest in it because even though it was shit, I am a fan.

Tidus 66
11-04-2005, 09:15 AM
@ Prak: Isn't the Cloud change to be he's "former self" one of the things that are explained in " A way to a Smile" or whatever it name is?
In my opinion the "Storyline" was just an excuse to begin more battles, i think seeing all the trailers is enough to know that the movie will pretty much be a "Mortal Combat" Convention, the voice actors did suck....
I think Sin Bahamut was only an excuse to put all characters in the movie for a little screen-time, and Rufus was an empty excuse to try and shock us with: " OMG Rufus is back!!! What a Miracle"

I never saw why everybody hated about TSW i thought that movie pretty good with no fanboyism

MossY
11-04-2005, 09:34 AM
I'm glad that someone has made this thread for the reasons that it's good to have both sides of the argument available and there is far to many pointless fanboy threads heaping praise onto the film without ever satisfactorily backing up their points. I personally haven't seen the film but due to the fanboy nature of its fans, I have no intention of seeing it either. Prak has thoroughly went through why he feels the film fails and I definitely agree with the marketing point. Perhaps if it's fans were to put as much effort into their threads, the film might appeal to me but as it stands I really don't care about it.

Weaponslayer
11-05-2005, 12:51 AM
They left a lot more plot holes possibly just to cash in even more in the future. I'm a fanboy, nothing will change that. I did notice a lot of cut scenes especially when Cloud draws his sword; this motion is quite complex considering the size of his swords (or maybe simply impossible). FF spirits within was much gayer in my opinion.

Prak
11-05-2005, 07:55 AM
FF spirits within was much gayer in my opinion.

How so? And if you dare to bring up stupid fanboy arguments like "no magic" or "no huge swords," I will taunt, belittle, and annoy you for as long as you post here.

Top Cat
11-05-2005, 09:22 AM
the second this turns into a flamefest i'll close it, jfyi.

also i am pretty much in agreeance with you, buttt i still enjoyed the movie if only for the sheer cheesiness of it. it was fairly good fun as long as you didn't expect much or engage your brain at all.

Buster Sword
11-05-2005, 01:03 PM
Prak, you made some very good points.
I never saw the movie in the same light as you did.
Unfortunately, I am still a fan boy, and basically nothing will ever change that.
I watched Final Fantasy:Spirits Within and I can tell you: I don't remember a single thing of what that movie was about.
I still don't really have a clue of what a saw, and personally I just generally forget I ever saw it. It doesn't come to mind as a movie I watched.
Advent Children, however, is something that stands out. Whether you liked it or not, there is so much to be said on it.
Maybe they did just do a bunch of contradictory things so that we can see all the characters fight and have weird animation and bring Sephiroth back.
But you know what? Those are exactly the reason so many people love FFVII.
It's the characters, the weapons, the villain, the animation, and the crazy stuff they do.
If this movie had none of those things, how could anyone have ever called it a sequel to the game?
they be like,"FFVII:Advent Children.I saw that movie. It had nothing to DO with FFVII. I didn't like it. Cloud used a machete. The bad guy was a possessed goat with a tumor. You don't even see Cid or Barrett. Why do they even call this movie FFVII? IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE GAME!"
so if the movie WASN'T just a cop-off of the game, you'd have this dilemma on your hands.
Personally, I'll keep Advent Children the way it is, without the creepy Goatlord /Sephiroth replacement.

Weaponslayer
11-06-2005, 09:20 PM
How so? And if you dare to bring up stupid fanboy arguments like "no magic" or "no huge swords," I will taunt, belittle, and annoy you for as long as you post here.

No, the story (even though original) I didn't really like. It's got nothing to do with the fact that it didn't have magic or anything related to final fantasy.

I'm no Japanese so I don't concentrate on the voice, I just read the subtitles, so I haven't noticed flaws in the voice acting.

Cloud also turned back into a loner because of his geostigma and how he thinks he's gonna die anyway.

I agree with quite a few a of your arguments, but I'll remain a fanboy. The movie was way too short for those who don't know anything about FFVII, so I think they should've had more cutback scenes and explained everything a bit clearer. The fact that they revived Sephiroth was good in my opinion; there is no better villain in my opinion (not a fanboy comment having seen so many villains).

Brein
12-06-2005, 06:42 AM
Always there to ruffle some feathers huh Prak?? LOOOLL

Ow well I must admit that the story is no story at all but I think the whole point of this movie is to show all the characters in nice graphics in more battles. We must be glad that this little thing (it was supposed to be about 20 minutes or something?) has become such a long movie..

Prak
12-06-2005, 02:58 PM
Of course I am, although this thread is a month old now...

Anyway, what you said about showing the characters in nice graphics ties into my "long FMV" argument. If that's the only point of the movie, it's retarded to actually charge money for it, especially when people who might only associate Final Fantasy with The Spirits Within will be exposed to it. It's a downright dirty business practice.

rezo
12-06-2005, 03:41 PM
I don't have a copy of the movie on me, so I can't check... but I didn't think there was anything overly bad about the voice acting. Besides Barrett's "GYAGGHAGR!!!" - ing.

also:



Some people try to justify a lot of what I've just talked about by saying that the movie was less of a movie than a long FMV.

haha. "It's not a movie, it's just a long movie".

Halo
12-06-2005, 03:52 PM
After all this movie was made for Fans not to take oscar.

Prak
12-06-2005, 03:55 PM
And everyone knows FFVII fans have bad taste. Still, the marketing angle is irrefutable. It's being marketed in the mainstream to a lot of people that won't associate it with anything but a movie that was much better than this one.

Halo
12-06-2005, 04:00 PM
Why dont you just take it as Full ending of FF7.

Honestly i think many parts of the movie where weird in many ways but even it was a "nice try" and call it "test" for making it beter next time.

Tidus 66
12-06-2005, 04:02 PM
I won't take it as a full ending first because it doesn't end nothing, second none of the plot holes are closed, it just makes new holes and turns a plot hole massacre into a even bigger one

Prak
12-06-2005, 05:35 PM
Honestly i think many parts of the movie where weird in many ways but even it was a "nice try" and call it "test" for making it beter next time.

It was not a nice try, as I explained quite clearly in the original post. Spirits Within could qualify as a test (although I would never call it such, as it was a mainstream film), but there's no way you can possibly call Advent Children a test since it was made using proven techniques, albeit poorly utilized ones.

weapon_xx2
12-07-2005, 01:37 AM
reason: I watched it on VCD.

Gentleman Ghost
12-07-2005, 03:22 AM
reason: I watched it on VCD.

La_Tortura_por_Tifa
12-14-2005, 11:39 AM
And everyone knows FFVII fans have bad taste.

How? Ok, I know the FFVII fans are just as rabid as the Star Wars and Harry Potter fans but come on!

It was made for the fans. They want money. IF the movie was such a big flop, why did it sell so much in the first week it went out? Because people love FFVII. That is why the movie was made. So we can expirience the characters we all know and love again! It was at the beginning, for christ sake. I'm sorry if some people have to compare it to some big blockbuster movie because frankly that's not what the movie was about. It was a visual expirience and I was very pleased with how it ended. And for those of you who say Cloud was being emo for no reason? He had a disease and he thought he was going to die! So he did what's best, what he thought was the best thing to do, and left his family. He didn't want them to know he was dying. That was said in interviews and Case of Tifa, but, and the movie too! How obvious does it have to be?

If you're a true fan, you'll atleast appreciate it! I'm sick of the whining. While SE are wallowing in cash, unsatisfied people are whining about it. Well guess what, it won't do you any good because what's over is over. I respect your opinion if you think that it sucks, but describing FF7 fans as "brainless fanboys and girls" and shit is kinda being disrespectful. Maybe you didn't like the movie because you didn't like FF7. Or you just didn't like the movie...But if it's the former, well, FF7 is awesome and most agree with that! It's not a bad game at all.

Rude666
12-14-2005, 11:45 AM
You know what, thats a pretty good post for a newbie.
You have my graditude

Prak
12-14-2005, 05:50 PM
How? Ok, I know the FFVII fans are just as rabid as the Star Wars and Harry Potter fans but come on!

When a counter-argument starts with as pointless a comment as this, you know it's bound to be pretty bad.


It was made for the fans. They want money. IF the movie was such a big flop, why did it sell so much in the first week it went out? Because people love FFVII.

I never called it a flop. I called it a terrible excuse for a film, regardless of how much money it makes. It is quite well-justified if you bothered reading the original post.


That is why the movie was made. So we can expirience the characters we all know and love again! It was at the beginning, for christ sake.

Your point? That alone does not make it a good or bad movie.


I'm sorry if some people have to compare it to some big blockbuster movie because frankly that's not what the movie was about.

You're full of shit. See my anti long FMV argument for details.


It was a visual expirience and I was very pleased with how it ended.

That's nice. No one cares if you're happy with it because that is totally irrelevant to the discussion. And of course it was a "visual experience." There was nothing to it other than the visuals, which were noticably sub-par compared to the same company's last CG film.


And for those of you who say Cloud was being emo for no reason? He had a disease and he thought he was going to die!

Pure speculation. That is never clearly stated. I see through it, however. It is because Cloud's antisocial emo fag attitude endeared him to the game's antisocial emo fag fans and if they followed the character progression of the game, that endearment would be lost.


So he did what's best, what he thought was the best thing to do, and left his family. He didn't want them to know he was dying. That was said in interviews and Case of Tifa, but, and the movie too! How obvious does it have to be?

And your point? There's still no explanation for why he's regressed to that. See my above comment as it ties in perfectly.


If you're a true fan, you'll atleast appreciate it!

You are truly a cunt. Only a tremendous fishy-smelling cunt would ever say something that foolish.


I'm sick of the whining. While SE are wallowing in cash, unsatisfied people are whining about it. Well guess what, it won't do you any good because what's over is over.

What whining? It looks to me like you're whining pretty badly. Don't impose your faults on others.


I respect your opinion if you think that it sucks, but describing FF7 fans as "brainless fanboys and girls" and shit is kinda being disrespectful.

Is it? Good! I certainly would not want to pay any form of respect to such riff-raff.


Maybe you didn't like the movie because you didn't like FF7.

I quite detested FFVII, in fact. However, I had hopes that maybe SE would have moved beyond the shit storytelling that plagued that game and made something decent.


Or you just didn't like the movie...

Now you're contradicting yourself. You said before that anyone who didn't like the movie wasn't a true fan. Cunt.


But if it's the former, well, FF7 is awesome and most agree with that! It's not a bad game at all.

"Most" agree with that? Most what? Most FFVII fans? Most emo fags who see Cloud Strife as an avatar for all their dreams of being special?


Ah, I've missed this feeling. Ripping fanboys a new one is such sweet therapy for the stresses of the day.

Cheetortron
12-15-2005, 08:51 AM
All hail the mighty Megatron! *coughs* sorry.

I liked FFVII, but liking the game can't make me like the movie. It's just awful (yeah yeah, in my opinion, everyone I seem to meet will scream in my face about how good it is and what an evil non FFVII fan I must be if I don't worship AC in all it's glory). Nice to know I'm not the only one who doesn't think it's the greatest movie ever created.

I didn't like TSW, and it didn't stick in my mind or make me want to watch it again and again, but it was a much better movie in terms of construction and... heck, just the way the characters moved and behaved if nothing else.

And I'm really sick of fights where people bounce unrealistically about at high speeds.

Rude666
12-15-2005, 09:00 AM
Yer the thing that made me like it the least was the fights, they were terrible.
The worst in my opinion was Tifa's fight at the start, although I liked the ringtone

Wattson
12-17-2005, 10:32 PM
? Because people love FFVII. That is why the movie was made. So we can expirience the characters we all know and love again!

People love FFVI. FFVI was phenomenally better than FFVII. FFVI has a good storyline that could have continued in many, many ways. I honestly don't remember VII having any loose ends, but that's probably because the game didn't make me care about the characters.
Every piece of evidence shows that FFVI (or IV or IX or Chrono Trigger, maybe VIII. Hell, even II) rightfully should have been made into a movie over VII, except for the fact that there are, for some unexplainable reason, "more" FFVII fans.

So, people who have seen what happens when Square tries to make a good game, and not just a money-making game. The stories are great, the music is great, it all comes together amazing (FVII, on the other hand, seems to have been made just for the cash - it's pretty much completley rehashed story elements from their previousg ames). People who know this were hoping that maybe the quality would come back and give us a good experience.

Obviously, AC didn't deliver.

I'm glad Prak made this thread - AC never deserved to be made, and Square never deserved to make money when there's so many other things they've done. Yes, it's "over and done with," but that doesn't mean we can't try to stop people from supporting this. I don't want to keep giving Square the message that they can produce shit and make money off of it. How come people won't buy the stuff I crap out?

ThroneofOminous
12-19-2005, 04:07 AM
I honestly don't remember VII having any loose ends, but that's probably because the game didn't make me care about the characters.


Yeah, because it's not as if the game ended right before a meteor was going to hit the planet or anything...

I doubt any other game would have made a better movie than FFVII, although that's not to say that Advent Children was really needed either. A sequel to FFVI would be doomed from the start; there's nothing much to elaborate on. I didn’t mind Advent Children; I probably would have liked it less if they had tried to give it a story instead of making it 100 mins of fan service, as strange as that sounds. If I really wanted to something that challenges me intellectually I would just watch Evangelion again or something…

pedo mc tax me softly, black person (whom i love)
12-19-2005, 07:51 AM
Yeah, because it's not as if the game ended right before a meteor was going to hit the planet or anything...

I doubt any other game would have made a better movie than FFVII, although that's not to say that Advent Children was really needed either. A sequel to FFVI would be doomed from the start; there's nothing much to elaborate on. I didn’t mind Advent Children; I probably would have liked it less if they had tried to give it a story instead of making it 100 mins of fan service, as strange as that sounds. If I really wanted to something that challenges me intellectually I would just watch Evangelion again or something…

Or you could go buy the complete Platinum collection from Wal-Mart for $50 and try to spot the differences between the regular collection and the new one.

one-winged angel
12-19-2005, 08:44 AM
Compared to the spirits within this movie was perfect,yes the story could have been better but they did a awsome jod making the game into a movie.

ThroneofOminous
12-19-2005, 09:22 AM
Or you could go buy the complete Platinum collection from Wal-Mart for $50 and try to spot the differences between the regular collection and the new one.

I already have the Platinum collection, and what is this 'Wal-Mart' you speak of?

Hex Omega
12-19-2005, 06:15 PM
Haven't been on here in a while, I had a feeling a thread like this would be here and i'm not in the least bit surprised that Prak made it :). He's pretty much 100% right, but to be honest, what did you expect from Square-Enix?The FF7 fanboy cult is still very much alive and they have shamelessly exploited it and put in next to no effort to make a decent film.

chewey
12-19-2005, 06:19 PM
Compared to the spirits within this movie was perfect,yes the story could have been better but they did a awsome jod making the game into a movie.
YoU aRE DumB

Hex Omega
12-19-2005, 06:20 PM
And that's being polite.

Dragoncurry
12-19-2005, 08:43 PM
You all are a bunch of losers lol.


All they say (aside from utterly pointless battle lines) is exactly what is required to move the story (if you can call it that) from point A to point B.

Prak...the movie was pretty damn long. You don't want Lord of the Rings: Advent Children do you? What more could they have said to satisfy you? And so what if the point is to bring back Sephiroth for a big and flashy battle at the end? What do you expect me to do? Sit there and wait for them to talk for three hours and done? WOOO.


That trend is upheld in all the action scenes. When you trace the movements, they really have practically no complexity at all.

Cloud has a giant sword Prak. He isn't supposed to be able to do much more than swing the goddamn thing. What do you want? Balet in the air? ANd what do you mean by complexity in a fight? In the Tifa vs Loz match, I saw plenty of complexity. If you want I can list it for you. Same with the Sephiroth battle. And maybe the motorcycle scenes were very "noncomplex" as you put it but what do you expect?! You arent even supposed to fight from a motorcycle!!!

I never really paid attention to the music. So I didn't ever go...Wow...the music SUCKS. I also never said it was great so watever.

And it IS a movie. It's a fun movie. You get to see people jump around and kill stuff in pretty cool ways. I know it isn't your deeply philosophical, thoughtful or a movie that leaves you with something after it's over, but it's entertaining!

It didn't suck completely, comon man.

Wattson
12-20-2005, 01:12 AM
Yeah, because it's not as if the game ended right before a meteor was going to hit the planet or anything...

You're right, it didn't end right before a meteor was going to hit the planet. The Holy materia and Aeris' spirit or something stopped it in a very Jesus-esque way, and then there was peace on Earth and the evil sinful Midgar is collapsed and Red XIII people are living there.

ThroneofOminous
12-20-2005, 07:49 AM
True, but it was still unclear as to whether humanity was wiped out.

Prak
12-20-2005, 06:20 PM
Prak...the movie was pretty damn long. You don't want Lord of the Rings: Advent Children do you? What more could they have said to satisfy you? And so what if the point is to bring back Sephiroth for a big and flashy battle at the end? What do you expect me to do? Sit there and wait for them to talk for three hours and done? WOOO.

I'm not quite sure what you're trying to argue here. Are you saying that it's okay for the movie to be completely brainless, predictable, and ultimately pointless? If so, you might as well give up now.


Cloud has a giant sword Prak. He isn't supposed to be able to do much more than swing the goddamn thing. What do you want? Balet in the air?

The aerial stuff was shit anyway, so I most certainly did not want "ballet in the air." Anyway, there was a lot that could have been done with the action scenes, even given the absurdity of the main character's weapon. However, instead of making the most of it, they settled for extremely simplistic battle sequences that used stupid camera tricks to try and hide it.


ANd what do you mean by complexity in a fight? In the Tifa vs Loz match, I saw plenty of complexity. If you want I can list it for you.

That was the only scene I saw that had any sort of redeeming value, so I will not argue with you about it.


Same with the Sephiroth battle.

This, on the other hand... Just where did you see any complexity in that fight. Whoever choreographed that scene had absolutely no idea how swords are even used. Every movement was so horribly simplistic that it was hard to believe the characters themselves had even used them before.


And maybe the motorcycle scenes were very "noncomplex" as you put it but what do you expect?! You arent even supposed to fight from a motorcycle!!!

They tried it. They failed. Failure is failure. If they couldn't pull it off, they shouldn't have tried. Effort counts for nothing.


And it IS a movie.

That's what I said.


It's a fun movie.

If you liked it, good for you. I enjoyed it about as much as a root canal.


You get to see people jump around and kill stuff in pretty cool ways.

You're certainly easy to please.


I know it isn't your deeply philosophical, thoughtful or a movie that leaves you with something after it's over, but it's entertaining!

To follow up a game that was about more than mindless fighting with a movie that's nothing but is pretty silly. Even if it entertained, it did a massive disservice to the subject matter, even as poor as it was.

Dragoncurry
12-21-2005, 01:20 AM
I wasn't saying you are wrong Prak. I was just disagreeing with a few of your points.

I assumed by complex, you meant that they moved around and did stuff that invloved more than a few moves (motorcycle battles didn't have that) and therefore, I assumed that the Sephiroth battle would be under the complex category.

Whoever choreographed that scene had absolutely no idea how swords are even used.
Technically, whoever choreographed that fight scene also had no idea about the concept of gravity or momentum (remember Cloud half swung on his two swords and flew up at about 80 mph), but so what? We aren't watching it to critisize how impossible it would be in real life or something. If we do, why don't we grab the third matrix and chuck it out of the window.

What was horribly simplistic about swinging a sword or jumping from wall to wall or that part where Sephiroth beat Cloud's ass without even using his sword (Right before he poked Cloud's arm with his blade)? That was pretty "complex" ( I dislike that word, for some reason).

Listen man, I know you didn't like the movie and I am not trying to change your opinion (Like I can lol). I am just saying it wasn't as bad as you say it is. You take things way too seriously. Sure, they could have done the action better, and yea the throwing Cloud into the air made me wince too but it wasn't a cockass movie. But whatever, I am done here.

And I am not easy to please...it is just that I knew what to expect from this movie and I pretty much got it. Not everything you watch has to leave you with something to think about. You already know the subject matter. Advent Children was just something extra for the fans. The story was basically over anyway. Lmao so yeah the movie was pointless. I hope you know that you wasted a good two hours of your life watching it. And then a few more arguing why it sucked. Did I just spell arguing wrong? Whatever. (That ballet thing was wack...I missed an l accidentally!)

lostphoenix
12-21-2005, 05:15 AM
Prak, you've made some good and true points, but all in all, FFVII:AC is a film that was purely made for the fans of FFVII the game. Yes, I suppose that isnt a good excuse as to why it should have a very bland and rubbish story line, but i dont really think when the film was being written, they wanted to think too much about the story, they were more concerned about making the characters look good, the scenery, the enemies, and the battle scenes.

My opinion however:
Storyline: 4/10 (Very Basic and becomes easy to loose attention)
Music: 8/10 (Some very good remakes of the original FFVII game music, and new music added)
Graphics: 9.5/10 (Come on, I dont think anybody here can complain about the graphics on the film, however i didnt put 10/10 becuase i think something is missing...)
Characters: 3/10 (Ok, now tbh none of the characters were anygood as far as involvment in the film goes, Cloud and Tifa alone could have made the Storyline alot better)
Overall: 7/10 (As a FFVII fan, and also a huge fan of FF ive always wanted to see a remake of FFVII as it was my first FF game at like the age of 9 or something. seeing this film (even though ive only got the Jap version with subs atm) was pretty cool, seeing all the characters again, in a new up to date CGI presentation if you will. I'm looking forward to the new FFVII games on the psp, ps2, and maybe even ps3 if they remake the original)

and there you go

lostphoenix
12-21-2005, 05:18 AM
I wasn't saying you are wrong Prak. I was just disagreeing with a few of your points.

I assumed by complex, you meant that they moved around and did stuff that invloved more than a few moves (motorcycle battles didn't have that) and therefore, I assumed that the Sephiroth battle would be under the complex category.

Technically, whoever choreographed that fight scene also had no idea about the concept of gravity or momentum (remember Cloud half swung on his two swords and flew up at about 80 mph), but so what? We aren't watching it to critisize how impossible it would be in real life or something. If we do, why don't we grab the third matrix and chuck it out of the window.

What was horribly simplistic about swinging a sword or jumping from wall to wall or that part where Sephiroth beat Cloud's ass without even using his sword (Right before he poked Cloud's arm with his blade)? That was pretty "complex" ( I dislike that word, for some reason).

Listen man, I know you didn't like the movie and I am not trying to change your opinion (Like I can lol). I am just saying it wasn't as bad as you say it is. You take things way too seriously. Sure, they could have done the action better, and yea the throwing Cloud into the air made me wince too but it wasn't a cockass movie. But whatever, I am done here.

And I am not easy to please...it is just that I knew what to expect from this movie and I pretty much got it. Not everything you watch has to leave you with something to think about. You already know the subject matter. Advent Children was just something extra for the fans. The story was basically over anyway. Lmao so yeah the movie was pointless. I hope you know that you wasted a good two hours of your life watching it. And then a few more arguing why it sucked. Did I just spell arguing wrong? Whatever. (That ballet thing was wack...I missed an l accidentally!)


yeah i totally agree on the gravity aspect of the film, wtf??? i just thought the battle scenes were ruined by the constant jumping, (flying actually tbh) and the pointless lack of gravity. Before seeing the film, I wanted to see summons battling, Magic spells being used, all kinds of materia, maybe a bit of 'anti-gravity' would have been aprechiated to add to it all, but you cant base the whole film on it, especially when there is none of it in the game

lionheart2005
12-21-2005, 05:27 AM
Final Fantasy has some of the best actions i've seen in an anime. The teambattle with the summon and bike chase towards the end of the movie is just spectacular. No words can describe it. That's said, the movie was made with fanbase on mind. The story, although easy to follow, will likely to confuse non-FF audience because they do not know the characters well enough. The show never pretend to be anything else than a pure action movie as quoted by the director himself. The movie is still a must-see nonetheless even if just for the amazing 3D graphics.

Overall: ****

lostphoenix
12-21-2005, 05:45 AM
Final Fantasy has some of the best actions i've seen in an anime. The teambattle with the summon and bike chase towards the end of the movie is just spectacular. No words can describe it. That's said, the movie was made with fanbase on mind. The story, although easy to follow, will likely to confuse non-FF audience because they do not know the characters well enough. The show never pretend to be anything else than a pure action movie as quoted by the director himself. The movie is still a must-see nonetheless even if just for the amazing 3D graphics.

Overall: ****

yeah i guess you are right, id say if you are a FF or FFVII fan boy, see this film, if you like good graphics, see this film.

OneWingedAngel
12-21-2005, 05:57 AM
The only thing I disliked about the movie was the parts the original cast played. I think they could have expanded on characters like Red Xiii the way they did with Vincent. It was great to see him more involved. Red Xiii had such a small part it really disappointed me... and all Cait Sith did was hit him on the head!

lionheart2005
12-21-2005, 06:03 AM
Hmmmm... OneWingAngel's must be a big fan of Vincent and RedXIII. But this is Cloud's story so almost everything centers on Cloud. And judging on how long they took to do the anime, they have to shorten certain characters' screen time to concentrate the movements and animations on the main ones.

OneWingedAngel
12-21-2005, 06:08 AM
That's completely right. In that yes I am a big fan of those two and it is Cloud's story. It shouldn't be any other way :D

Prak
12-21-2005, 05:07 PM
Geek out over it in another thread. This thread is for people to bash it or attempt (in utter futility, I might add) to defend it.

Dragoncurry
12-22-2005, 10:46 AM
Lmfao. I am writing that line down.

MogKnight
12-22-2005, 12:26 PM
If I am able to disregard and cancel out Prak's statements (as I assume that is the point that we're debating about the movie Final Fantasy 7: Advent Children) about this movie, you may all discard Prak's points and statements. Note that I am not saying that I'm defending the quality of Advent Children, I am simply refuting his arguments in saying how Prak is wrong in his statements.


With all the hype and fanboy reactions, it can be hard to find out the truth about the movie. Well, I'm here to tell you that anyone with a hint of appreciation for good filmmaking is going to find Advent Children appalling. Why, you ask? Here's why:


The violation here is that Prak is stating that there is a "Truth" to the movie. Dictionary.com states that "Truth" is...


Conformity to fact or actuality.

Fact is not an opinion yet Prak is forcing an opinion as a fact. You may already choose to disregard everything Prak says up to this point.



Story (spoilers)

When I label this segment "story," I use the term very loosely. There basically is none. What little exists is:

A. Badly written: The main characters speak with all the imagination and creativity of a preschooler's attempt at fanfiction. All they say (aside from utterly pointless battle lines) is exactly what is required to move the story (if you can call it that) from point A to point B. They display no depth beyond archetypal moods. None of the loose ends from the game are resolved. New loose ends are created, making the FFVII universe even more of a jumbled mess than it already was.

B. Transparent: Almost from the moment the movie begins, it is obvious that the entire point of it is to bring Sephiroth back to life for another flashy battle and to show off all the characters in pretty graphics. Nothing comes as a surprise, except for one or two in-jokes that Final Fantasy fans alone will appreciate. And then, those have been so heavily spoiled that they're not likely to catch anyone off guard.

C. Contradictory: What happened to Cloud? Why is he back to being such a moody, grumpy loner after getting over all that by the end of the game?

Anyone who says the movie had a good story is an idiot or an irredeemable fanboy.



This movie, as you may or may not know, has not been officially released in any location other than Japan. Because of this, we cannot validate the story's quality because the story's translation did not come directly from the company who made this movie. Prak's point for "Badly Written" is totally negated because of this.

Prak's point B states how the movie is nothing more than showing off flashy battles. Allow me to point out one movie that is considered great by many and unlike FF7:AC, it did not have a fan base prior to its release: Kill Bill. The storyline was really basic but the focus was not really on the story. But if Kill Bill was considered great without much of a story (84th Rank movie in IMDB by Registered User Vote), why should the story itself determine how great it is?

As for Prak's point C, and I'm pretty sure people have lived a life (meaning to be alive, not meaning to be social), this movie takes place about two years after the end of Final Fantasy 7 the game. Two years can change anyone. Also Prak didn't point out that Cloud was inflicted with Geostigma. Those who have seen the movie can see how bad it is, thus why Cloud himself could be, as Prak put it, a "moody, grumpy loner."




Visuals

In a word, overhyped. Sure, things look fairly pretty when they're not in motion, but it all falls to pieces in the action scenes. The character models degenerate into barely more than Barbie and Ken dolls. On top of that, the detail is a noticable step down from the standard set by The Spirits Within. Considering that TSW is several years old now, shouldn't they have been able to at least match their previous work?

As for the aforementioned action sequences, it mostly looks like they were directed by a collaborative effort between Rob Cohen and Uwe Boll. Absurdly fast cuts are used excessively, making it hard to follow what's happening. At first glance, it seemed to me like it was detracting from those scenes, but on closer inspection, I noticed that there really wasn't anything happening at all. It would use three rapid cuts just to show Cloud making a simple turn on his bike in an attempt to make it seem like a complicated maneuver. That trend is upheld in all the action scenes. When you trace the movements, they really have practically no complexity at all.



Prak stated the movie's visual are weak when everything is in fast motion. This is just a fragment of the movie and doesn't represent the movie as a whole. In a way, bringing out a small simple problem and blowing it way out of proportion. There is small problem here but it should not represent the quality of the entire movie as Prak is attempting to do so here.



Audio

The music was mostly decent enough. At the very least, there's nothing to complain about there. However, the character voices were terrible. It sounded like nearly every one of them was simply reading lines off a page, with no regard at all to actual acting. Some actors aren't absolutely deadpan in their delivery, but they still follow archtypal models and display no variance in their voices.


Again, this is currently a Japanese release and thus, only Japanese voices are present. Japanese voice actors react and sound different in their delivery. He is arguing the Japanese voice quality and to be honest, how do we know Prak's preferences towards Japanese voice actors in anime and such? Some of you knowing him personality may say that he might not like Japanese voice actors, even Japanese made movies or games. So how is this a valid arguement when it could be a racial statement? Something to think about.




The long FMV argument

Some people try to justify a lot of what I've just talked about by saying that the movie was less of a movie than a long FMV. Bullshit. It is advertised and marketed as a movie. Money is being charged for it, just like a movie. It even had a limited theatrical release. It is a movie. It is a crappy one at that.

It has absolutely zero merit as a stand-alone film because of its inaccessibility to people who haven't played the game. However, it is still going to be marketed to them through the movie's mainstream release. People who are unfamiliar with the Final Fantasy games will be picking it up, perhaps due to the pretty-looking graphics or their experience with TSW. They're going to be in for a major disappointment due to the disjointed story, lack of acting talent, and visual failures. Unless the movie comes with a big sticker that says, "DON'T WATCH THIS MOVIE IF YOU HAVEN'T PLAYED THE FINAL FANTASY VII VIDEO GAME," Square-Enix are absolute pricks to release it that way.



Because "FMV" and "Movie" are not properly defined as separate things, you can just go ahead and skip what Prak is saying. Also, since he stated that this was marketed as a "Movie," how should that fact alone do any sort of discrediting towards the movie itself? Oh, he's trying to say it is marketed as a mainstream thing. Many movies out there can be considered cult classics rather than mainstream favored. So how can this discredit Advent Children? It doesn't. People that will pick this up will be Final Fantasy 7 fans and those who like Square-Enix's work. If people that aren't any of the above, well, we might have some new Final Fantasy fans "Adventing" with this release. Again, Prak's statement here is just making big of a small problem.




Now, fill in the gaps I've left and show more ways the movie sucks. Or, if you're a hopeless fanboy, you can try to argue with me. Or just maybe, someone will learn something from this, notice that they've been a fanboy, and renounce their wicked ways.

:3 I also don't consider myself a hopeless fanboy.

Thank you and have a nice day.

lionheart2005
12-22-2005, 12:34 PM
Prak is one badass critic. I like that boy and hate him too. Damnit!

OneWingedAngel
12-22-2005, 02:05 PM
Some very interesting points below!

Prak
12-22-2005, 04:42 PM
Wow Hahn... Most of that was obviously bullshit, but it was so well-delivered I can't bring myself to argue! Bravo!

MogKnight
12-22-2005, 05:31 PM
<3

And it's Hanh. ;_;

Prak
12-22-2005, 05:33 PM
I know. Twas merely a typo. ;)