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Trance Kuja
10-13-2005, 06:15 AM
The thread is simple enough, who do you think is the worst VGM composer. Criticism to other peopleís choices and opinions is welcome, as long as you back up your opinion with relevant facts and arguments.

Here we go:

1. Tommy Tallarico

Tisk, tisk, tisk. Tommy Tallarico. The single most overrated American composer in history. The guy is confused, generic and utterly arrogant, confusing game music with film music, which sounds simply boring and unoriginal, and also, he thinks that he is one of the best VGM composers. He, like most American composers (with the exception of Spencer Nilson and a few others), don't create active, compelling tunes, but Tallarico is the absolute worst. His music doesn't deserve anywhere near as much credit as it receives.

2. Naoshi Mizuta

Square Enix's second worst member of their sound team (behind Hirosato Noda). He simply can't compose interesting and innovating tunes (as shown on the FFXI OST and the Parasite Eve II OST.) His arranging skills are a notch higher than his composing, but it's still below average and that's not acceptable. Though his style might not appeal to most, there are some which admire his skills mainly because they like droning ambience. However, he is simply a selectable choice.

Hmmm, I don't think I have anymore at this moment, but I will post when I have something new.

medeii
10-13-2005, 01:52 PM
2. Naoshi Mizuta

Listen to the following tracks from Final Fantasy XI:

- "The Sanctuary of Zi'Tah" (Rise of the Zilart / Vision of Jiraat)
- "Grav'iton" (Rise of the Zilart / Vision of Jiraat)

The first one, Zi'Tah, is almost universally acknowledged by FFXI players as the "best music anywhere" (meaning the in-game world.) The second is my personal favorite, but less often heard because it's only present in a limited way -- as the BGM for a few high-level mission storylines.

Also, note that while Mizuta composed the majority of FFXI's tracks, others are done by Uematsu and Kumi Tanioka.

My most hated composer is Uematsu. He did some great stuff, but everything he's put out in the last few years has universally sucked. I'll quote part of the review of TBM2 from Chudah's here:


The worst aspect of the entire album, save for the vocals on "The Skies Above", is Uematsu's organ. Some of the underlying synth like the intro to "Man with the Machine Gun" is well done courtesy of Kenichiro Fukui, whose contributions to the album border on great, but the gospel-gone-crap organ instrument Uematsu uses is piss poor and extremely overdone throughout the entire disc. Ironically enough, it's the loudest part of the whole album, and when the organ comes careening out of the speakers like a drunk train flying off of icy tracks it's apparent that Uematsu broke into the studio and fiddled with his levels post-mixing so his organ would be louder than everything.

After that album, I never wanted to hear another Uematsu track again.

Trance Kuja
10-13-2005, 02:13 PM
Listen to the following tracks from Final Fantasy XI:

- "The Sanctuary of Zi'Tah" (Rise of the Zilart / Vision of Jiraat)
- "Grav'iton" (Rise of the Zilart / Vision of Jiraat)

The first one, Zi'Tah, is almost universally acknowledged by FFXI players as the "best music anywhere" (meaning the in-game world.) The second is my personal favorite, but less often heard because it's only present in a limited way -- as the BGM for a few high-level mission storylines.

Yet, listen to the utter boringness of the rest of the Soundtrack. Two good (well, in my opinion, Grav'iton is boring) tracks don't mean anything, especially when he has composed so much in the FFXI Series.


Also, note that while Mizuta composed the majority of FFXI's tracks, others are done by Uematsu and Kumi Tanioka.

Of course I knew this, Tanioka is much like Mizuta, only better, but she tends to leave out feeling in her compositions in FFXI and in almost everything she does, while Uematsu only composed a small amount, but mainly are average pieces (with the exception of FFXI Opening Theme.)


My most hated composer is Uematsu. He did some great stuff, but everything he's put out in the last few years has universally sucked.


After that album, I never wanted to hear another Uematsu track again.


But you still bought the Advent Children OST (Composition wise, done by Uematsu (with the exception of 3 tracks), despite the fact it's all arranged by Sekito, Fukui, Toyama, Kawamori and, though his only contribution was really "Cloud Smiles," Hamaguchi)

Bottom Line: I don't like Uematsu either, but in comparison to Mizuta, it seems as if he's an above-average composer.

(Oh yeah, I take back my quote about Mizuta's arranging skills being better than his compositional ability. I simply wasn't thinking, and I forget about how horrible Mizuta's contributions to The Star Onions album was. Medeii, take a listen to this album and then give me your thoughts about Mizuta. My guess is that they would've changed...)

Chris Kateman
10-13-2005, 05:25 PM
Stuart Chatwood

Django
10-13-2005, 05:49 PM
TK you are so sad :')

Trance Kuja
10-13-2005, 07:15 PM
TK you are so sad :')

How?

Sarah
10-13-2005, 08:41 PM
just to be fair, I don't think MMORPG music can be judged in the same way "regular" video game music can be. you can't be too dramatic, because you're going to potentially be hearing this song thousands upon thousands of times.

Trance Kuja
10-14-2005, 02:12 AM
just to be fair, I don't think MMORPG music can be judged in the same way "regular" video game music can be. you can't be too dramatic, because you're going to potentially be hearing this song thousands upon thousands of times.

In this case, yes it can. The fact is, Mizuta doesn't seem to want to differ from his trademark, uninspired style, first shown in his work at Capcom, and that greatly contributes to the effect of the music, degrading from likeability. MMORPG can be judged in the same way as RPG's, because the same compositional principle is used. You can revisit places and hear the same pieces of music in RPG's as well. However, I respect your points of view, and I understand where you're coming from :)

Lord Magus
10-14-2005, 12:00 PM
MMORPG can be judged in the same way as RPG's, because the same compositional principle is used. You can revisit places and hear the same pieces of music in RPG's as well.
But I don't recall many RPGs were the town or dungeon music is especially dramatic. The big dramatic pieces are usually reserved for stuff like major story events and boss battles.

Trance Kuja
10-14-2005, 05:50 PM
But I don't recall many RPGs were the town or dungeon music is especially dramatic. The big dramatic pieces are usually reserved for stuff like major story events and boss battles.

It doesn't matter if the music is dramatic or not in RPG's or MMORPG's. You can hear the track thousands of times in either. The point is, the same composition style is used, nothing has changed.

Enkidoh
10-15-2005, 03:01 AM
Well, although I don't share your opinions on FFXI's OST, I do respect your opinions as well as your freedom to express them, so I won't argue with you TK.

Personally, I actually thought FFXI's OST was on the whole, first rate - the quality of orchestration and arrangement in most cases was beyond anything previously heard in the FF series - with my personal favourites being Mizuta's Vana'diel March, Mhaura, Metalworks, Gustaberg, The Grand Duchy of Jeuno, and the beautiful Ronfaure - my favourite one of all.

The Opening is pure Uematsu though, with the tolling bell at the end and the chords of the Prelude hidden away within it. Yes, there are some lacklustre tracks (if I hear that damn Irish jig in Selbina again I think I'll scream, and those awful repetative bagpipes completely ruined The Kingdom of San D'oria), but generally, the soundtrack delivered.

Besides, if you hate FFXI's music that much, use the music cheat to replace the music files with whatever music you fancy..

But that's just my own opinion...

Trance Kuja
10-15-2005, 03:09 AM
Personally, I actually thought FFXI's OST was on the whole, first rate - the quality of orchestration and arrangement in most cases was beyond anything previously heard in the FF series - with my personal favourites being Mizuta's Vana'diel March, Mhaura, Metalworks, Gustaberg, The Grand Duchy of Jeuno, and the beautiful Ronfaure

You do realize that Metalworks and Gustaberg were composed by Tanioka (the latter arranged by the ever so divine Hidenori Iwasaki), while Ronfaure was composed by Uematsu?

Enkidoh
10-15-2005, 03:36 AM
Actually, I didn't (apart from Uematsu's link to Ronfaure). Well, I guess that explains a lot.. ;)

But still, I stand by my opinion that FFXI has one of my favourite soundtracks. I don't expect others to agree (after all, it would be a very boring place if everyone liked the same thing), but I'll respect their opinons as will I do yours.

Getting back onto topic though, my most hated composer would be whoever it was that replaced Naofumi Hataya and Masafumi Ogata's original Japanese OST for Sonic CD with a sub-standard synth-pop affair in the US Sega CD version. It's not bad, but when compared with the awesome music of the Japanese version, there simply isn't any comparison. Luckily for me though, PAL territories got the original Japanese electronic/ambient house soundtrack with the European Mega CD version of Sonic CD however...

nkwp
10-15-2005, 06:12 PM
Naoshi Mizuta

I hate this guy. His work on the FF XI OST and the expansion pack soundtracks and the Parasite Eve II OST was utter shit. His compositions lack depth and feeling. I can honestly say that has not composed one track that has caught my fancy.

Alvinz
10-30-2005, 08:25 PM
THE WORST IS NOBOU UEMATSU i fink i spelt his name right... BUT THEN AGAIN ... hes the ONLY COMPOSER i kno... SO hes ALso THE BEST ^________^ YAY GO NOBOu

nkwp
10-30-2005, 09:08 PM
You seem to be confused between your capital letters and small letters.
How can he be the worst and the best when you obviously have not been exposed to anything else?
Isnt that a bit ...oxymoronic?

Player 1
10-31-2005, 03:17 PM
Hey,Trance Kuja,I just want to ask you why did you say that Akira Yamaoka hates VGM?

(Btw,where are you from?)

nkwp
10-31-2005, 06:16 PM
I will answer on Trance Kuja's behalf because he is not able to access the shrine at this point. However I am friends with him on msn and passed on what you said, here is the answer:

Harry says:
Oh, OK, it's a well known fact that Yamoaka hates VGM. Check interviews and documentaries. And I am from AUS

Sorata
11-08-2006, 04:42 AM
Chris Kateman

Do you really think?
For me that was the best game music ever.........
Stuart Chatwood has made the best songs I've ever heard, in the Prince of Persia trilogy............

Darkness_Essence
12-12-2006, 04:39 AM
I second the "Tommy Tallarico" sucks opinion. Even though I admit to liking two of Tommy's past VGM contributions, I still can't stand the guy.

I exchanged PMs with the man over the IGN forums. He may be the most polite, yet most arrogant person I have me. I actually felt grateful for IGN boards having so many crazy, messed up people who forced Tommy to stop posting in Nintendo-console forums.

Erm, I'm new by the way. Peace and love to all...in spite of the amount of hatred the aforementioned paragraphs carry.

Project Epsilon
12-12-2006, 12:02 PM
Tommy Tallarico

I completely agree with everything that has been said about this man. Now, Earthworm Jim, I love this soundtrack. It fits the game, and is just a fun, goofy mix of tracks. But thats who Tommy is, a little, goofy man. He was in his element when he made those songs. But since then he's been trying to do these orchestral pieces, and they are complete crap.

I think the problem is that he wants to be Nobuo Uematsu so bad, that he is forcing his work to sound epic. You can hear it in his music, its just so forced and unoriginal i almost have an aneurysm listening to it. The only way he could win me back now is by jumping in front of a bus... ok... that was a bit harsh... maybe a new ewj with goofy music...

Oh, yes... i also am new here... so peace and love to all from me as well!

sirkibble2
12-12-2006, 02:43 PM
I cannot stand David Clynick. He's completely unoriginal and generic to me.

thinginthetub
12-13-2006, 01:30 AM
I liked Tallarico's work in Advent Rising, but I found his other work to be boring and generic and really, it just sounded like he was trying too hard.



People are probably going to yell at me, but Jeremy Soule has been lacking in the awesomeness lately. He's MOST definitely not the worst, but while we're on the subject of boring VGM, yanno. His last few soundtracks have just been boring and uninspired, in my opinion. Anybody else feel the same way?
I'll forgive him for making so many kickass soundtracks in his career, but I'm a little diappointed lately.

K-5000
01-01-2007, 05:32 PM
I have no idea what Tallarico has been doing lately, but I liked his MDK soundtrack. Kinda weird that some of it was recycled into the Wild 9 soundtrack, though.

FrogKing
01-03-2007, 09:15 PM
Not a fan of Tallarico

He did nice work with earth worm jim and advent rising (except the choral work).

I actually like a couple of tracks from Mizuta's PE 2 (Ghost Town and Douglas' Grief). I am not to keen on his FF XI stuff.

anima_dnb
04-04-2008, 05:07 AM
tbh Im still in love with BOTH Parasite Eve soundtracks. PERIOD. The first PE OST was
better of course but still... I like the ambient tracks as well that are on PE2 (And the
rest of the ost)

anima_dnb
04-04-2008, 07:57 AM
Well arent you a sick f*ck

Takfloyd
04-04-2008, 08:06 AM
Holy shit, someone call the mods... and the police.

selderane
04-12-2008, 10:59 PM
I admit that I found Tommy Tallarico a bit grating (especially on the show he used to do on G4) but the soundtrack for Advent Rising is great. I've not listened to enough of his stuff to really critique his style overall. However, if it weren't for the Advent Rising soundtrack I'd never have heard of Charlotte Martin whose entire discography I now possess. So, that gives the man bonus points in my opinion.

As for Nobuo Uematsu, he's a bit hit and miss with me. I think he's talented as all get-out but not everything he does is for me. I just obtained the soundtrack for Lost Odyssey but I've not given it a listen to however it seems to have gotten generally positive reviews.

But I find the point of this entire thread a bit immature. That's to say, too many children, when presented with something they don't care for, are quick to point fingers at the thing of their ire rather than looking within themselves, getting honest, and saying, "It's just not for me."

I say this because of how quickly Nobuo Uematsu came up in this thread. I'm sorry but the man is a giant in the video game music world. He just is. That doesn't mean he's above criticism but isn't it slightly more likely that rather than him "sucking" his music just isn't for you?

The man's music for the Final Fantasy series had a world tour that sold out nearly every place it stopped. That's not the sign of a composer whose overrated or whose accolades are undeserved.

Destai
04-13-2008, 08:55 AM
Though I don't know that much about him I find Kenji Ito to be a hella mediocre composer. Or a bad one. Really crap, simple, generic videogame music with little appeal. I dont like Motoi Sakuraba much. His tales of soundtracks are pretty much like Ito's. His Valkyrie Profile and Star Ocean stuff is much better but even so I don't really like his style and he churns out so much of it, all of it sounding very similar to one or two other tracks, I find it hard to care.

knighTeen87
04-13-2008, 09:06 AM
Masahiko Hataya,Kidon,Satoshi Ise,Infinite and Hideki Okugawa.Run away as fast as you can when you see these names on the composers list

Glitch
04-13-2008, 11:31 AM
This will probably get me in trouble, given the amount of people here that love Chrono Cross' soundtrack, but of all VG composers I know for their great works, Yasunori Mitsuda ranks among the average.

arthurgolden
04-13-2008, 11:52 AM
I liked Chrono Trigger, Chrono Cross, Radical Dreamers, and Front Mission: Gun Hazard. Other than that, I find Mitsuda to be extremely boring, too. But hey--if you write one of the greatest soundtracks of all time, Chrono Trigger, (even with Uematsu's help) you're still okay in my book.

selderane
04-13-2008, 01:22 PM
Yeah, Chrono Cross was very good. There really isn't a single track on the soundtrack I'd skip.

doomjockey
04-13-2008, 04:00 PM
Firstly, never expected to see Mitsuda's name even mentioned here. Defintely not the worst. Definitely not average.

Secondly, I came here ready to defend Mizuta.

...

Then decided to have another listen to FFXI OST. After going back over the FFXI OSTs, I reached the same conclusion: Naoshi Mizuta's skills aren't great and sorry to say he's not even touching Uematsu. And I don't like Uematsu. Trance Kuja, I can't agree with you more. Anyone else take out your FFXI and Zilart OSTs and play Kazham. Then play Rabao. Then play Altepa. How about Rolanberry Fields? Notice anything similar?

Lastly, I'm not sure who I'd list as the worst composer but Uematsu's definitely fallen off since FFVI. FFVII's OST was decent, but no track reached the level of VI's Opening Theme Terra/Tina. FFVIII even had a better OST than VII. People probably like the soundtrack because, for many, it was their first journey into a Final Fantasy and perhaps first RPG overall. Your perception of greatness is skewed by nostalgia. Back to the point, Uematsu's not so great these days. The last OST I heard from him was the utterly forgettable Blue Dragon OST.

cucucachoo
04-13-2008, 04:05 PM
I'll tell you who the worst video game composer is that I can think of at the time: Well, I searched like crazy and can't find the dude's name and I can't see the name in the game's credits because I lent it to my cousin BUT whoever did the music to Yu-Gi-Oh! GX Spirit Caller is the worst composer known to man. Just listen to the music when you're in a duel, it's repulsive and repetitive. When you're winning the duel it goes into some guitar riff loop that has a worse timbre than a midi guitar and there's hardly any music structure there. I cringe when I hear it.

Ghostman172
04-13-2008, 06:38 PM
People are probably going to yell at me, but Jeremy Soule has been lacking in the awesomeness lately. He's MOST definitely not the worst, but while we're on the subject of boring VGM, yanno. His last few soundtracks have just been boring and uninspired, in my opinion. Anybody else feel the same way?
I'll forgive him for making so many kickass soundtracks in his career, but I'm a little diappointed lately.

Jeremy Soule hasn't done a good soundtrack since Total Annihilation.

selderane
04-13-2008, 06:57 PM
I do think Jeremy Soule is a bit overrated. He'll write a tune here and there that I like but then I can throw out the rest of it.

I will mention one composer that has never really let me down: Jack Wall.

Shumagaki
04-13-2008, 07:23 PM
i like an enormous number of Uematsu songs in the games he composed for, so I figured I would like the music done by the Black Mages too. Whenever I listened to the album they put out though of redone FF songs (was it skies above?) I thought they were absolutely horrible, as if they had taken the good songs and mangled them to pieces beyond recognition. Maybe i'm just not a fan of that kind of hard rock music, but it was hard to believe the same guy who made the catchy tunes in FF created that music.

Glitch
04-13-2008, 09:47 PM
My most hated composer is Uematsu. He did some great stuff, but everything he's put out in the last few years has universally sucked. I'll quote part of the review of TBM2 from Chudah's here:



After that album, I never wanted to hear another Uematsu track again.

Ha ha, yeah I read that review, it's funny but I totally agree with the guy. As for Uematsu, I can't say I hate his work, but it's definitely been going down the drain to me since FF VIII, save for a few scattered tracks, and The Black Mages II was pretty much a disappointment.

arthurgolden
04-14-2008, 01:25 AM
i like an enormous number of Uematsu songs in the games he composed for, so I figured I would like the music done by the Black Mages too. Whenever I listened to the album they put out though of redone FF songs (was it skies above?) I thought they were absolutely horrible, as if they had taken the good songs and mangled them to pieces beyond recognition. Maybe i'm just not a fan of that kind of hard rock music, but it was hard to believe the same guy who made the catchy tunes in FF created that music.

I love hard rock, and I still don't like most Black Mages reinterpretations. That doesn't mean all of it is bad. But I think if the Black Mages albums were the first Uematsu songs the world heard, he would have faded into obscurity. I think we all give Uematsu a big line of credit because of his past accomplishments. That's the only explanation I can come up with for why I still get excited for every Black Mages release when I haven't liked a single one of the albums first song to last.

Glitch
04-16-2008, 10:15 PM
tbh Im still in love with BOTH Parasite Eve soundtracks. PERIOD. The first PE OST was
better of course but still... I like the ambient tracks as well that are on PE2 (And the
rest of the ost)

PE OST was a mixed bag: some tracks were great, others merely passable, and the rest obliterated beyond repair due to Eve's hideously annoying voice, although I suppose it wasn't part of the original compositions, it could've been removed.
I don't know much about Naoshi Mizuta other than his (her?) work on PE2 OST, but Yoko Shimomura isn't the best composer in my book, other female composers such as Michiru Yamane are far better.

DrMatta
04-17-2008, 02:00 PM
1. Tommy Tallarico



I beg to differ,
Earthworm Jim was one of the best (snes) soundtracks ever.

DarkLine
04-17-2008, 02:26 PM
Earthworm Jim was good...Since E.T. is the worst game of all time, I think it also has the worst music...

NucleaRaptor
04-17-2008, 04:55 PM
Masahiko Hataya,Kidon,Satoshi Ise,Infinite and Hideki Okugawa.Run away as fast as you can when you see these names on the composers list
I haven't heard anything by Okugawa except for the SFIII OST,but that one is actually pretty good. A bit repetitive,but upbeat and catchy. I liked it a lot.

Now,Ise I'll have to agree upon. I'm listening to his Capcom vs SNK 2 OST right now. Honestly,shit fukken sucks. I found maybe two tracks that I actually liked,but the rest are absolutely abysmal.

byzantinechild
04-19-2008, 12:42 PM
I cannot stand David Clynick. He's completely unoriginal and generic to me.

Thank you. Clynick's work on the original Perfect Dark was good with providing additional music was good, however, when he composed for Perfect Dark Zero, it just sounded like monkeys on crack banging on the synthesizers. Blech!

Mike Pullmer's another one, has anyone listened to the Mission: Impossible N64 soundtrack? Utter dreck! Every track, except Embassy Function, is pretty inane.

Chris Jensen, who did music for Half: Life - Opposing Force is also pretty terrible, providing substandard music, save one track which is pretty good, for a pretty good game. He over-relied on the drum and techno samples a bit too much and didn't vary the sound like Bailey did in the other games.

Solid-Ares
06-23-2009, 06:10 AM
For me the worst VGM composers are Naoshi Mizuta (Parasite Eve 2), Trevor Morris (NFS: Carbon and Army of Two), Junkie XL (any game except the one about Jason Bourne), Kyle Richards, Matthew Piersall (Aeon Flux) and Jon Dal, Robert Casady (Underworld: The Eternal War).
I can only say about their work on this games so if they compose anything outstanding now I don't mind, but for now they suck.

Solid-Ares
06-23-2009, 06:17 AM
I haven't heard anything by Okugawa except for the SFIII OST,but that one is actually pretty good. A bit repetitive,but upbeat and catchy. I liked it a lot.

Now,Ise I'll have to agree upon. I'm listening to his Capcom vs SNK 2 OST right now. Honestly,shit fukken sucks. I found maybe two tracks that I actually liked,but the rest are absolutely abysmal.

Hideki Okugawa also wrote a great soundtrack (well, at least I like it so much) to "Dead Rising".

Plankton614
06-23-2009, 11:01 AM
I say this because of how quickly Nobuo Uematsu came up in this thread. I'm sorry but the man is a giant in the video game music world. He just is. That doesn't mean he's above criticism but isn't it slightly more likely that rather than him "sucking" his music just isn't for you?

The man's music for the Final Fantasy series had a world tour that sold out nearly every place it stopped. That's not the sign of a composer whose overrated or whose accolades are undeserved.

Precisely. To be fair, I adore Uematsu. Do I like everything he puts out? Of course not. But he is undeniably talented, and nowhere near the worst.

Also, to those citing the TBM albums, those should probably be excluded from consideration since those are strictly arrangements of tunes heard in-game.

Kontrafagott
06-29-2009, 11:38 AM
Tommy Tallarico

I couldnít believe my eyes after I read that it took him so long to compose that crappy Score to Advent Rising! Bad themes, lush orchestrations (Ok, at least his orchestrators tried to make that crap more interesting using lots and lots of orchestral effects; but boy: they failed!), no counterpoint, absolutely boring. And where is the Italian Opera he always talks about? Iíve never heard about a Dies Irae in an Italian Opera anyway.
He always talks about his lack of music education. I donít know why he is so proud about that because he has no technique and no style at all.
Itís kind of grotesque that someone like him got so far in the industry. But maybe thatís the trick. Probably he is so popular because so many people can identify themselves with him.
But thank god! Now heís doing this dogs and pony-show ďVideo Games LiveĒ so he wont penetrate us with some new, bad music.

Kai Rosenkranz

Oh boy! What a shame for Germany (Iím from Germany too). His Gothic Scores are soooo bad. Just listen to the third one. Some boring orchestrations, some bad, Media Ventures-like themes, many, many band Hollywood-Fantasy-Scores clichťs plus lots and lots of pseudo medieval, and pseudo ethnic elements. Just take the desert track. Punch long organ-points together with some exotic flutes (The Duduk! Thatís a must have for deserts), and some ethnic voices. Yea!!! Thatís what the desert sounds like: Like a corny, cheesy M-V Track.

skitarii
06-29-2009, 10:35 PM
Richard Beddow

The guy practically ruined the music for Empire Total War. While the music might sound a bit fresh on the first listen, the tracks are only about a minute long and LOOP instead of going to the next song.

I wish they used Jeff Van Dyck. Now that guy has talent.

NucleaRaptor
06-30-2009, 01:15 AM
I just played through CV:Harmony of Dissonance.

So yeah,Soshiro Hokkai is pretty bad.

cupacupu
06-30-2009, 07:56 AM
Motoi Sakuraba

heard about his works on star ocean and valkyrie profile..people said their good wooo[Only registered and activated users can see links] i really got curious of course, who doesn't know about SO and VP ?? so i downloaded ONE song from each series that was "highly recommended" and heard it and....okay, maybe it's sound a bit subjective, but i really can't stay even up to 3 minutes hearing those songs..they're making me headache then dizzy..and the worst: I FEEL SICK (honestly, not lying on this part). dude, they're all SOUND SAME !! no matter what his album i listened to, i feel like i'm listening to a same album.. okay, those albums created by the same composer, but gimme some differences will you..?
because of this, now everytime i want to DL VGM, i always make sure who is the composer..gotta beware of this guy..sure i don't wanna waste my hard disk storage for this one . . .


curiosity can kill sometimes

kokujin
06-30-2009, 10:47 AM
Motoi Sakuraba

heard about his works on star ocean and valkyrie profile..people said their good wooo[Only registered and activated users can see links] i really got curious of course, who doesn't know about SO and VP ?? so i downloaded ONE song from each series that was "highly recommended" and heard it and....okay, maybe it's sound a bit subjective, but i really can't stay even up to 3 minutes hearing those songs..they're making me headache then dizzy..and the worst: I FEEL SICK (honestly, not lying on this part). dude, they're all SOUND SAME !! no matter what his album i listened to, i feel like i'm listening to a same album.. okay, those albums created by the same composer, but gimme some differences will you..?
because of this, now everytime i want to DL VGM, i always make sure who is the composer..gotta beware of this guy..sure i don't wanna waste my hard disk storage for this one . . .
In my opinion Sakuraba's modern works just aren't as great as his old FM Synth compositions.So i can see where you're coming from.

arthurgolden
06-30-2009, 10:54 AM
Out of curiosity, what were the songs you listened to? Sakuraba is known for being the most prolific VGM composer alive and writes the equivalent of about a song a day, so there's a lot to choose from.

cupacupu
06-30-2009, 08:15 PM
In my opinion Sakuraba's modern works just aren't as great as his old FM Synth compositions.So i can see where you're coming from.
hmm..maybe you can give some examples of his old works..
dude, try to love this guy but somehow my ears just can't stand it . . . .


Out of curiosity, what were the songs you listened to? Sakuraba is known for being the most prolific VGM composer alive and writes the equivalent of about a song a day, so there's a lot to choose from.
yes, that was the first reason i tried to listen to his works: because he's one of the big composer for VGM.. so far i've listened to:
valkyrie profile OST..say..Turn Over a New Leaf, Fragments of the Heart..and i just don't get them.
valkyrie profile arrange album and voice mix arrange..and..uh oh, wrong selections to take..those made me feel kinda funny (esp.the voice mix arrange)
SO 3 OST..So Alone, Be Sorrow..it does sound better..but still don't get it LOL :laugh:
SO4 arrange album..i'm really interested in SO4, but when i saw the composer is him..thought for sometimes, and..i took it, who knows it would be better...listened to all tracks...okay, this album was better ! but..the style of those tracks kinda similar . . . .
Star Ocean & Valkyrie Profile - Motoi Sakuraba Live Concert..oh yes, people said it was AWESOME..who wouldn't be curious to hear it of course ? esp. the drum&bass solo for 19', oh my ! so i downloaded it..heard it..and, okay that's enough for motoi sakuraba..not gonna torture my ears anymore :(

maybe i took the wrong samples from his works..wish if you could recommend me some songs that show his "better quality" works :puppydog:

knighTeen87
07-01-2009, 08:06 AM
I just played through CV:Harmony of Dissonance.

So yeah,Soshiro Hokkai is pretty bad.

come on,i think that game's soundtracks are awesome

Red Arremer
07-01-2009, 08:15 AM
Nobou Uematsu post-FFVI.

Simply overrated. Not necessarily awful. Especially overrated is FFVII's soundtrack. That one's just mediocre at best.

NucleaRaptor
07-01-2009, 10:52 AM
come on,i think that game's soundtracks are awesome
Are you serious? I only remember 3 tracks from that game. And one of those is a remix of a track from the very first Castlevania.

knighTeen87
07-03-2009, 02:18 PM
yeah I'm serious,soundtracks were totally in CV style

Kuraodo
07-03-2009, 06:08 PM
Whoever composed Legend of Dragoon. That game has horrible music, especiall for a JRPG. It doesn't even fit the setting!

Terramax
07-07-2009, 03:19 PM
Listen to the following tracks from Final Fantasy XI:

- "The Sanctuary of Zi'Tah" (Rise of the Zilart / Vision of Jiraat)
- "Grav'iton" (Rise of the Zilart / Vision of Jiraat)


I heard them a number of times and I can't stand them. The weakest of the music I've heard in the game.


Whoever composed Legend of Dragoon. That game has horrible music, especiall for a JRPG. It doesn't even fit the setting!

Yeah, my vote would go to that guy also.

arthurgolden
07-07-2009, 08:53 PM
Whoever composed Legend of Dragoon. That game has horrible music, especiall for a JRPG. It doesn't even fit the setting!

Dennis Martin and Takao Miratsu

Audity31
07-13-2009, 12:53 AM
Though I don't know that much about him I find Kenji Ito to be a hella mediocre composer. Or a bad one. Really crap, simple, generic videogame music with little appeal.

I entered this thread just so I could see someone post this. I recall someone branding him "the greatest hack in vgm". I agree except for when people remix his SD1 tracks they always sound good, somehow. And he did a fun song for Pop'n 12 or 13 (I forget).

Audity31
07-13-2009, 01:00 AM
Whoever composed Legend of Dragoon. That game has horrible music, especiall for a JRPG. It doesn't even fit the setting!

Somehow I entirely disagree, with one aspect of this. Standalone, I wouldn't keep any tracks. But I thought they really fit the atmosphere of the game. I think it had to do with my specific instance of playing the game, steadily, at a friend's house; but also to do with the unique sound set the composer used (also, in the way of the latter, that reminds me of Breath of Fire IV/Secret of Evermore/probably a couple of others).

t0m s3rvo
07-30-2009, 09:46 PM
Tallarico I'm going to have to agree with. Even though I rather enjoyed Advent Rising's soundtrack, it's still pretty generic as far as orchestrations go.

the_grimace
08-05-2009, 05:59 PM
tommy tallerico does kinda suck, and at the very least, VERY OVERRATED. I liked his earthworm jim tracks, but nothing else he did. He tries to make music anymore that just isnt his style. If theres one thing i learned from composing and watching and learning from other composers, its that everyone has their own style. You got to embrace and cherish your style. If you do, people will love your music, it wont matter its all somewhat similiar, because it sounds good. Im not talking about huge patterns in style, like only composing rock or jazz tunes for example, but some composers do more ambient stuff, others more melodic, some more freeform improv music, some more technical and theoritically correct. You need to compose in all styles of music, but where you take each style of music is where your style of composing comes out

benjamillion
08-06-2009, 10:44 PM
I have no idea what Tallarico has been doing lately, but I liked his MDK soundtrack. Kinda weird that some of it was recycled into the Wild 9 soundtrack, though.

yeah, funny thing, a friend of mine had wild 9 and had no idea about the existence of mdk and the music from it

Shinigami64
08-07-2009, 06:03 PM
Tommy Tallarico...and here's why...

Years ago, on the short-lived G4 show Judgment Day, Tallarico and his co-host Victor Lucas reviewed Guilty Gear XX (X2 in America due to our cultural fear of sex). In the review, Tallarico lambasted the game based solely on his dislike of the soundtrack. Aside from the fact that this is a truly stupid reason to dislike an entire game, there's also the intellectual dishonesty of the matter since Daisuke Ishiwatari's work is solid.

I had no idea that he was a VGM composer until that episode, and that instance was very telling. That man can fuck right off...

knighTeen87
08-08-2009, 05:19 AM
hmm,i liked Tommy Tallarico's job on Demoliton Racer but don't have any idea about other compositions

All Seeing Eye
08-08-2009, 03:28 PM
I do think Tommy is kinda overrated, but I don't think he sucks. All the games I played that had his music composition, sounded good to me. Aladdin, Earthworm Jim 1 and 2, MDK 1 and 2, Maximo and some others. The guy took his popularity and built upon it. You can't blame a guy for that. I don't see people bitching about Nobuo creating his own music studio, personal orchestra and the rock band Black Mages.

NucleaRaptor
08-08-2009, 04:19 PM
You also don't see Nobuo openly badmouthing other people's work and generally being an arrogant douchebag. It's the same reason why everybody hates Itagaki.

All Seeing Eye
08-08-2009, 06:19 PM
You also don't see Nobuo openly badmouthing other people's work and generally being an arrogant douchebag. It's the same reason why everybody hates Itagaki.

So because he has a personality you don't like, that means he's a bad music composer?

Failed logic.

NucleaRaptor
08-08-2009, 07:17 PM
From the musical standpoint,I enjoy Tallarico's work. Other than maybe reusing classical music too often,he's okay in my book. Being an ass hurts his image in general,though.

Veracocha
01-22-2011, 05:28 AM
valkyrie profile OST..say..Turn Over a New Leaf, Fragments of the Heart..and i just don't get them.
valkyrie profile arrange album and voice mix arrange..and..uh oh, wrong selections to take..those made me feel kinda funny (esp.the voice mix arrange)
SO 3 OST..So Alone, Be Sorrow..it does sound better..but still don't get it LOL :laugh:
SO4 arrange album..i'm really interested in SO4, but when i saw the composer is him..thought for sometimes, and..i took it, who knows it would be better...listened to all tracks...okay, this album was better ! but..the style of those tracks kinda similar . . . .
Star Ocean & Valkyrie Profile - Motoi Sakuraba Live Concert..oh yes, people said it was AWESOME..who wouldn't be curious to hear it of course ? esp. the drum&bass solo for 19', oh my ! so i downloaded it..heard it..and, okay that's enough for motoi sakuraba..not gonna torture my ears anymore :(


hehe..over a year late..hope you'll read this
it's funny how people's opinions can differ this much, though there seems to be a general consensus. about motoi sakuraba, though, i'm gonna have to agree with kokujin. his older stuff is way better (star ocean: the second story, valkyrie profile 1, etc). true, though..he's got his own style, and he sticks to it..not much variation. the only variation would be in the "instrumentation" so to speak..like, he has different periods..most of his soundtracks before the playstation 1 era were like super-synthy, while on playstation one i think he peaked with soundtracks like SO2, and later soundtracks have just become too bland and most tracks just sound the same.
like, the SO3 albums, i really didn't like them (especially compared to his SO2 stuff) because they were kinda toothless and repetitive.
give SO2 or the first VP soundtrack a chance, personally i prefer his slow tunes, like The Venerable Forest, Theme of Rena, etc

as for bad VGM composers in general..yeah, the guy who composed the soundtrack for Parasite Eve II is really all over the place, isn't he..?
Kenji Ito's stuff (after Seiken Densetsu I, which was awesome) is really boring, feels like he just couldn't evolve his style after game music became more advanced than just three channels.
Takahito Eguchi is another composer I think just plain sucks. Remember the soundtrack to The Bouncer? Jeezaz

Mr. Nelson
02-11-2011, 09:07 PM
Takeharu Ishimoto.

It's just a terrible fact that Takeharu Ishimoto is one of Square Enix's internal composer, and more yet that he's getting to put his hands in such major scores like Dissidia 012 Final Fantasy and Final Fantasy Type-0. It's obvious that the increasingly commercialistic Square-Enix isn't interested in paying for major freelancers composers like Yoko Shimomura or Masashi Hamauzu, or even Hitoshi Sakimoto's Basiscape or Norihiko Hibino's GEM Impact, when it has its own composers, not taking in consideration quality (not even Mitsuto Suzuki, who did an excellente job in The 3rd Birthday, is getting so much space as he deserves). The remixes for Dissidia Final Fantasy were just crappy and unoriginal, which is honestly an offense in a game that's supposed to represent 20 years of a musical legacy created by the likes of Nobuo Uematsu and Hitoshi Sakimoto. The entire soundtrack for Crisis Core is full of generic rock themes and terrible orchestral music, and the only masterpieces of both albums, the ending themes, were arranged by Kazuhiko Toyama. And in all original albums produced by Square Enix, Ishimoto's immmature music just paled when compared to Hamauzu, Junya Nakano and even Tsuyoshi Sekito.

I disagree to an extend about Naoshi Mizuta's music. Even if he does rely sometimes way too much on ostinato-based compositions (the reason why PEII sucks), his work in Final Fantasy XI and in the 4 Heroes of Light manages most of the time to be memorable and appropriate for the settings (check "Stargaze" and "Kazham"). Even though I find that listening to a Mizuta album can be a really tiresome experience, he has created some exciting music akin to older Final Fantasy titles ("Battle in the Dungeon #2" and "Battle Theme" from Final Fantasy XI). So, yeah, far from being a fantastic composer, but not really terrible either.

kuro_tenshi
10-16-2011, 01:31 AM
My opinion is:

This thread is very relative. Some composers did a right, regular and wrong compositions everytime. A good exemple: Metallica, Iron Maiden. If you tell "(write a composer's name) is terrible", is the same thing you say: "That band/singer is a bullshit". This is a particular opinion, based on personal tastes and you can find agree and disagreements. But i NEVER agree you, Trance Kuja, tell that all works of some composer are terrible. Each one get inspiration from different or same points of view and perception, but how can each one will "translate" this to the public, this is so personal.

A good exemple of "translate" is Final Boss Themes and how give this sensation to the player of a great and epic battle begins?

darkravenx
12-06-2011, 12:10 PM
I have to throw in about Naoshi Mizuta. I used to basically agree with the fact that he was sub-par, but recently, I think he's changing. The FFXIII-2 samples are a HUGE shocker. Just listen to some of his samples here: FINAL FANTASY XIII-2 ?????????????? | SQUARE ENIX ([Only registered and activated users can see links])

While a few still have his generic sound, he expanding his usual means and REALLY standing out now. I never thought Id compare him to the likes of Shinji Hosoe, but the last track on disk 1 is very electronic and way outside anything else he's done for Square Enix. The normal battle theme on disk 2 (the first disk 2 sample) is hard rock, and track 13 on disk 3 is a VERY intense and well written live orchestral piece. Maybe he's finally changing?

Onto the ACTUAL thread topic though, Takeharu Ishimoto is by far my most hated composer. Only because everything he writes sounds the same. He basically has 1 rock track, 1 orchestral, 1 electronic, and so on. Then he just changes them up a bit and sells it to us as a "new" track.

Jakah
12-07-2011, 05:11 PM
The thread is simple enough, who do you think is the worst VGM composer. Criticism to other peopleís choices and opinions is welcome, as long as you back up your opinion with relevant facts and arguments.

Here we go:

1. Tommy Tallarico

Tisk, tisk, tisk. Tommy Tallarico. The single most overrated American composer in history. The guy is confused, generic and utterly arrogant, confusing game music with film music, which sounds simply boring and unoriginal, and also, he thinks that he is one of the best VGM composers. He, like most American composers (with the exception of Spencer Nilson and a few others), don't create active, compelling tunes, but Tallarico is the absolute worst. His music doesn't deserve anywhere near as much credit as it receives.

2. Naoshi Mizuta

Square Enix's second worst member of their sound team (behind Hirosato Noda). He simply can't compose interesting and innovating tunes (as shown on the FFXI OST and the Parasite Eve II OST.) His arranging skills are a notch higher than his composing, but it's still below average and that's not acceptable. Though his style might not appeal to most, there are some which admire his skills mainly because they like droning ambience. However, he is simply a selectable choice.

Hmmm, I don't think I have anymore at this moment, but I will post when I have something new.

Final Fantasy XIII-2 Soundtrack - Caius Theme - YouTube ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) - Below average?

FINAL FANTASY XIII-2 ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) - Click on 6:35...I think I have to highly disagree. While some of Mizuta's scores are not the best {Parasite Eve 2 I can agree with you on}, he's getting better and these are good examples. Plus, I enjoyed his work on Final Fantasy: The 4 Heroes of Light, Final Fantasy Legends: Warriors of Light and Darkness, and FFXI, especially the dlc addons [the Mog final boss theme was epic! :D ]

Nintendsonydo
07-10-2012, 06:08 PM
Toshihiko Horiyama

In a group, this guy can actually compose well. (Megaman X, Parts of Megaman 7, Megaman & Bass)

Then there's Megaman X4. This barely even has the ROCK feel necessary to a Megaman X soundtrack. While the final boss themes are great (he always gets those right) along with the opening stages, the rest are just bland synth-crap. Storm Owl Stage is a perfect example of everything wrong with this soundtrack! The only MMXish track on that OST is Double, which is still kinda messy. The boss theme is exceptionally awful: I have no idea what it's trying to be!

Fast-forward to Apollo Justice: the Objection theme reminds me of everything wrong with Storm Owl. But aside from that, he really outdid himself. Listen to LOVE LOVE GUILTY: it shows how MMX4's OST should have been like. I think AJ: AA was originally gonna be TH alone but then Capcom realized a group was necessary for him to shine. The Cornered theme by Okugawa is also EXCELLENT!

Shad
07-10-2012, 09:14 PM
This thread is misguided. The worst game music composers all lost their jobs in the late 1980s, and you will never know their names. The period in which game music was necessarily bad was virtually non-existent, extending from the first soundtracks in 1979 and 1980 until maybe 1981 in the arcade. I mean hell, Frogger had decent tunes. It took a while for companies to catch on to the fact that game music mattered, and certain systems--the Atari especially--still presented a lot of difficulties, but you can only stretch the grace period so far. I think the absolute worst of the worst appear on the NES between 1985 and 1988 or so. I mean, you have a ton of games coming out for the NES years after Super Mario Bros. that would have barely passed as anything but obnoxious noise when the system first launched.

Here is a completely random example. It took me about 30 seconds to find one:

BurgerTime - NES Gameplay - YouTube ([Only registered and activated users can see links])

This is a good example too because it's a port of a 1982 arcade game. I'm sorry, but if your sound programmer can't do anything better on the NES in 1987 than replicate the original blips he needs to find a new job; this trash you're hearing is contemporary with Mega Man.

I think what this thread really boils down to is a discussion of overrated or otherwise disappointing composers. So while I disagree with the people name-dropping Uematsu and Mitsuda, they're not being totally ridiculous.

Speedy Boris
07-23-2012, 08:39 AM
It's important to remember Mark Miller was the composer for the first Earthworm Jim, not Tommy Tallarico. Tommy -did- work on the Sega CD port and the sequel, though.

arthurgolden
07-27-2012, 12:13 AM
Saw this YouTube video ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) and thought of this thread.

Edit: Apparently, I haven't linked to the music from Demon Rush ([Only registered and activated users can see links]=01m28s) on this thread. That's up there with the worst of the worst, but of course the guy isn't a composer. Just a kid.

Squong
08-27-2012, 12:25 PM
It's important to remember Mark Miller was the composer for the first Earthworm Jim, not Tommy Tallarico. Tommy -did- work on the Sega CD port and the sequel, though.
Tallarico was under contract with Virgin at the time and had to pretend he didn't make the music, but supposedly people could tell it was his style anyway. That's what he wrote on his website, anyhow. I like his music from Global Gladiators, although it only has about 3 legitimate tunes and then a bunch of ludicrous ARE YOU READY? YEAH! mixes. And then that would be the fundamental likable thing of the impossible sponsor-clogged game-oid.

I came here to mention H. Kingsley Thurber, who did a few Super Nes soundtracks (all with what sound like default spc samples) and, from what I can tell, a low budget horror movie (that for all I know suited his style better). I had to laugh, however, when I saw Legend of Dragoon's music mentioned. I had forgotten it existed entirely. I remember being depressed and underwhelmed when I heard it. And yet it fits the game perfectly so it's not necessarily bad (and I've never bothered to listen outside the game). And then I guess you could say the same for Mr. Thurber, for whom the primary credit I can think of is Captain Novolin. And maybe I just think his name is funny.

Sakuraba I had some issues with; some very headache producing over-producing going on, but it lately struck me that I didn't like some of Yuzo Koshiro's later stuff either, and I wonder if it's only because I'm so well acquainted with his early material that I hold him in better regard. Still I must give them and Uematsu credit for successfully reinventing themselves when the technology changed (or just to please their artistic inclinations) rather than disappearing from the biziness entirely like a lot of the Capcom and Konami music folk I have liked.

Bob Prince worked on Doom and a lot of Apogee/id software shareware games. He likes to repeat a musical phrase a few times, alter the pitch, repeat it again, and then loop that four times with different midi instruments. He had some memorable pieces but evidently they can mostly be matched to songs by other people. Still he seems like a jolly fellow.

dissident93
09-24-2012, 04:10 PM
Hiroki Kikuta.
Everybody praises him and the Secret of Mana ost, but it's total ass. Had 2 or 3 meh songs (which is actually good in context), while the rest was boring, rehashed, cheesy, generic garbage.

Shinobu Tanaka/Nagata
HAHAHAHAHHA. She is so terrible (on Super Mario Sunshine), that it makes me feel as though I have musical talent by default. No doubt that this is the worst vgm soundtrack of all time.

NOW! Don't think I'm picky. I can listen to any soundtrack without complaining, but when it comes to these two....blah

Evolution01
12-09-2012, 12:21 PM
I would say Koji Kondo is probably the worst VGM composer as well as Yoko Shimomura. I am more into the composers that not too many people recognize,as well as composers that work at other companies that are not as well known.

I am not too much of a fan of Non-Japanese made game music, but if there were a few I'd pick, well I would pick the composers who worked at Ocean Software Ltd., Geoff and Tim Follin, and Jesper Kyd* (*preferably for his work on the Sega Genesis).

knighTeen87
01-05-2013, 04:42 PM
Koji Kondo and Yoko Shimomura are worst composer? Are you kidding? What are you listening to? Justin Bieber?

Roast Chicken
01-05-2013, 05:06 PM
Masashi Hamauzu.

His music is not even special, it's so japanese, I know that he's japanese but what I'm writing about is that his music doesn't differ from many other anime or arcade videogames. I'm not an expert but why does he insist in using violins with that high tone? Blinded by Light, Hanged Edge.

Fanboys/girls just think his music is good because he made the soundtrack for FFXIII and FFXIII-2 (maybe LRFFXIII too).

Evolution01
06-03-2013, 05:28 PM
[/COLOR]Well, I usually listen to other game composers instead of those two. I don't necessarily hate Koji Kondo's work per say, I like his compositions he did for Zelda, but I just think they are too over-rated that's all. Granted, they are great composers, but everyone knows them. In fact, it would be nice to have someone else compose Zelda or Mario, like Yuka Tsujiyoko, Shinobu Amayake, Minako Hamano, Takane Okubo, and especially my favorite composer of all time, Tsukasa Masuko.

Evolution01
06-14-2013, 04:05 PM
Koji Kondo and Yoko Shimomura are worst composer? Are you kidding? What are you listening to? Justin Bieber? Well, I usually listen to other game composers instead of those two. I don't necessarily hate Koji Kondo's work per say, I like his compositions he did for Zelda, but I just think they are too over-rated that's all. Granted, they are great composers, but everyone knows them. In fact, it would be nice to have someone else compose Zelda or Mario, like Yuka Tsujiyoko, Shinobu Amayake, Minako Hamano, Takane Okubo, and especially my favorite composer of all time, Tsukasa Masuko.

Zeferden
01-07-2014, 08:35 PM
I agree that music with the high-pitched tones from a violin can be quite piercing and unnerving to an untrained ear, but I urge you to reconsider. If you take a look at Hamauzu's other works, the chords in his pieces are so mature and intimate, with the melody ringing out above, strong and clear. I am unashamed to say that he is my favorite composer. (not just in video games) I am not a fanboy of the XIII trilogy. I was, literally, on the floor, laughing at FFXIII-2's storyline. (Although, I did like the first a bit) I suggest listening to the Lightning Returns OST, although, you should note that not all the pieces are from Hamauzu. Sorry to bump an old thread. Just wanted to defend my favorite composer.

JutsBeaumont
02-01-2014, 01:25 AM
So yeah,Soshiro Hokkai is pretty bad.
this is years old but the defense is necessary:
Hokkai's compositions are phenomenal and it's an absolute tragedy that he only ever composed for Harmony of Dissonance and a small amount of Aria of Sorrow. His compositions of unconventional, complicated, dissonant and pounding; they're not necessarily memorable or catchy in an obvious way but a.) music doesn't have to be, and b.) that's not the point.

also hamauzu is prob the best composer next to hitoshi sakimoto


yoko shimomura and nobuo uematsu are really boring

MMDE
02-01-2014, 10:42 AM
hmm..maybe you can give some examples of his old works..
dude, try to love this guy but somehow my ears just can't stand it . . . .


yes, that was the first reason i tried to listen to his works: because he's one of the big composer for VGM.. so far i've listened to:
valkyrie profile OST..say..Turn Over a New Leaf, Fragments of the Heart..and i just don't get them.
valkyrie profile arrange album and voice mix arrange..and..uh oh, wrong selections to take..those made me feel kinda funny (esp.the voice mix arrange)
SO 3 OST..So Alone, Be Sorrow..it does sound better..but still don't get it LOL :laugh:
SO4 arrange album..i'm really interested in SO4, but when i saw the composer is him..thought for sometimes, and..i took it, who knows it would be better...listened to all tracks...okay, this album was better ! but..the style of those tracks kinda similar . . . .
Star Ocean & Valkyrie Profile - Motoi Sakuraba Live Concert..oh yes, people said it was AWESOME..who wouldn't be curious to hear it of course ? esp. the drum&bass solo for 19', oh my ! so i downloaded it..heard it..and, okay that's enough for motoi sakuraba..not gonna torture my ears anymore :(

maybe i took the wrong samples from his works..wish if you could recommend me some songs that show his "better quality" works :puppydog:

I do have to agree not all of his work is that amazing, but there's usually some gold to be found in all soundtracks he makes. Very hit n miss though, and this is especially true among in recent years. Not really a big fan either, but he is far from one of the worse.

Some cherry picked recent tracks I've enjoyed by him:
Eternal Sonata - Grim Will ([Only registered and activated users can see links])
Tales of Graces F - Wild Dance ([Only registered and activated users can see links])
Resonance of Fate (End of Eternity) - Battle to Pay Debt ([Only registered and activated users can see links])
Dark Souls - Gwyn, Lord of Cinder ([Only registered and activated users can see links])




Nobou Uematsu post-FFVI.

Simply overrated. Not necessarily awful. Especially overrated is FFVII's soundtrack. That one's just mediocre at best.

Overrated is not the same as worst... With that said, most of what Uematsu did while he was with SquareSoft was great.

As for FF7, it has lots of good tracks. o.O I'm just going to assume you didn't like the rather sad dark urban future sound. For example if all you relate the soundtrack with is that One-Winged Angel track, then you simply haven't listened to it much. I love starting on disc 4 with the 11th track and just play on from there, it really builds up.


This thread is misguided. The worst game music composers all lost their jobs in the late 1980s, and you will never know their names. The period in which game music was necessarily bad was virtually non-existent, extending from the first soundtracks in 1979 and 1980 until maybe 1981 in the arcade. I mean hell, Frogger had decent tunes. It took a while for companies to catch on to the fact that game music mattered, and certain systems--the Atari especially--still presented a lot of difficulties, but you can only stretch the grace period so far. I think the absolute worst of the worst appear on the NES between 1985 and 1988 or so. I mean, you have a ton of games coming out for the NES years after Super Mario Bros. that would have barely passed as anything but obnoxious noise when the system first launched.

Here is a completely random example. It took me about 30 seconds to find one:

BurgerTime - NES Gameplay - YouTube ([Only registered and activated users can see links])

This is a good example too because it's a port of a 1982 arcade game. I'm sorry, but if your sound programmer can't do anything better on the NES in 1987 than replicate the original blips he needs to find a new job; this trash you're hearing is contemporary with Mega Man.

I think what this thread really boils down to is a discussion of overrated or otherwise disappointing composers. So while I disagree with the people name-dropping Uematsu and Mitsuda, they're not being totally ridiculous.

While I do agree with this, I think we should look at those who has released more than just a few soundtracks. The ones who haven't and did a crap job at the few they did really shouldn't be considered, because they didn't release "enough" to judge them based on.

In any case, if you want to find this crap then you'd need huge collections of well tagged old video game music. A good example is for example SMD/Genesis soundtracks in vgz format you can easily go through and listen to all the junk, and if you see someone's name popping up a lot among the trash, you know you found a rather terrible video game music composer.


Masashi Hamauzu.

His music is not even special, it's so japanese, I know that he's japanese but what I'm writing about is that his music doesn't differ from many other anime or arcade videogames. I'm not an expert but why does he insist in using violins with that high tone? Blinded by Light, Hanged Edge.

Fanboys/girls just think his music is good because he made the soundtrack for FFXIII and FFXIII-2 (maybe LRFFXIII too).

Yeah, not really a big fan of Hamauzu, but he can do some good tracks once in a while. I find him making far too many tracks for his own good, where 90% is completely forgettable. I guess he abuse the law of big numbers.

JutsBeaumont
02-01-2014, 12:11 PM
More accurately the context of the game demands it and he's not afraid to allow his thick, minimalistic chords to speak for themselves.

When it comes to Uematsu the issue is that his compositions are boring. Trite, almost exclusively monophonic; a simple defining voice (melody) with minor backing instrumentals. Rarely ambitious, rarely interesting. This issue kind of extends to Yoko Shimomura, as well, whose work rarely bothers to change or abandon throughout its run. Take The Edge of Green from Radiant Historia, for example; despite being one of the best songs on the soundtrack, the bassline and percussion still never changes. It silences for a part here and there, but it can still be "felt " underneath chugging away.


sakuraba is also really boring

MMDE
02-01-2014, 12:44 PM
More accurately the context of the game demands it and he's not afraid to allow his thick, minimalistic chords to speak for themselves.

When it comes to Uematsu the issue is that his compositions are boring. Trite, almost exclusively monophonic; a simple defining voice (melody) with minor backing instrumentals. Rarely ambitious, rarely interesting. This issue kind of extends to Yoko Shimomura, as well, whose work rarely bothers to change or abandon throughout its run. Take The Edge of Green from Radiant Historia, for example; despite being one of the best songs on the soundtrack, the bassline and percussion still never changes. It silences for a part here and there, but it can still be "felt " underneath chugging away.


sakuraba is also really boring

Is minimalistic a bad thing? I far too often experience the exact opposite when it comes to video game music, that when they try to make it more complex and especially when it gets "movie soundtrack-ish", that's when it just goes boring and loses me. I far prefer when they are far more limited in what they got to work with, like back on pre-5th generation and somewhat including 5th generation consoles. When it has to be simple they can't hide shitty compositions and arrangements.

As for Uematsu always playing it safe, go check out some of the more recent soundtracks he has done. o.o One thing Uematsu always have been great at is variety. There's one thing Uematsu do a lot of which is very noticeable once you listen to a lot of his music though, and that is he knows his scales. He very often does various runs repeatedly. :p

Try to listen to this ([Only registered and activated users can see links]). My bet is you're going to think it's crap, and it's not far off what Uematsu very often do, but then again, Uematsu mixes it up with various genres and influences.

JutsBeaumont
02-01-2014, 01:51 PM
...Given that part of my defense of Hamauzu was a defense of minimalism I'm not sure why you'd think I have something against that? Minimalistic composition is often sparse and defined by singulars, but that doesn't necessarily mean that it's simple, or that it's simple in the same way that something like Uematsu would be.

It seems like you've got some baggage associated with the terms minimalism and complexity that need to be shed.

It isn't about how /much/ is going on in a song, it's about the way the song progresses, about the sort of chords being used and what they're meant to evoke; about the specific nature of the interplay between the sounds and timing inherent therein. So what I'm getting at here is that complexity doesn't mean "filmic" or "movie soundtrack-ish" (those are rarely actually complex or complicated) or even "a lot of instruments". How many instruments there are has nothing to do with quality; that said, the idea that composers couldn't filter out "bad writing" when they had less instrument channels is really misguided.

Here's a comparison:
Piano Pieces Saga Frontier 2-Full Album - YouTube ([Only registered and activated users can see links])
This is one of the tracks off of Hamauzu's Saga Frontier 2 Piano Album (it's set to start at the track ). Nothing but piano, somewhat sparse composition, but yet, it's still complex and simultaneously evocative. That's the case for most of the album, really.

Uematsu knows his scales and he runs through them repeatedly but that's part of the problem -- the scales and chords he uses are almost always so standard and rote, so bare, and his melodies un-adventurous. They're accessible and overly-sentimental.

Although the first segment of Glass' composition is evocative of Freya's theme (one of the better tracks Uematsu has authored), the second part reminds me more of Hamauzu than it does Uematsu.

MMDE
02-01-2014, 03:16 PM
...Given that part of my defense of Hamauzu was a defense of minimalism I'm not sure why you'd think I have something against that? Minimalistic composition is often sparse and defined by singulars, but that doesn't necessarily mean that it's simple, or that it's simple in the same way that something like Uematsu would be.

It seems like you've got some baggage associated with the terms minimalism and complexity that need to be shed.

It isn't about how /much/ is going on in a song, it's about the way the song progresses, about the sort of chords being used and what they're meant to evoke; about the specific nature of the interplay between the sounds and timing inherent therein. So what I'm getting at here is that complexity doesn't mean "filmic" or "movie soundtrack-ish" (those are rarely actually complex or complicated) or even "a lot of instruments". How many instruments there are has nothing to do with quality; that said, the idea that composers couldn't filter out "bad writing" when they had less instrument channels is really misguided.

Here's a comparison:
Piano Pieces Saga Frontier 2-Full Album - YouTube ([Only registered and activated users can see links])
This is one of the tracks off of Hamauzu's Saga Frontier 2 Piano Album (it's set to start at the track ). Nothing but piano, somewhat sparse composition, but yet, it's still complex and simultaneously evocative. That's the case for most of the album, really.

Uematsu knows his scales and he runs through them repeatedly but that's part of the problem -- the scales and chords he uses are almost always so standard and rote, so bare, and his melodies un-adventurous. They're accessible and overly-sentimental.

Although the first segment of Glass' composition is evocative of Freya's theme (one of the better tracks Uematsu has authored), the second part reminds me more of Hamauzu than it does Uematsu.

I've listened to the SaGa soundtracks several times before, and I liked most of the earlier games' soundtrack better than the latter ones. Uematsu did some of the early stuff, and then later Kenji Ito took over. Kenji Ito is okay to decent most of the time, some good tracks here and there, but he really only shine when it comes to battle soundtracks. Having listened to them before, I know I thought Hamauzu's work really was the poorest in that series and most of it is rather bland and boring. Yes, it's more "jazzy". Hamauzu isn't very minimalistic most of the time, he adds in too many underlying layers with different compositions and while it doesn't get very complex, it's far from minimalistic most of the time. It's usually in that grayzone. He rarely perfects his tracks either. There is often something decent about the tracks, but rarely does he get it through. Maybe he takes a lot of chances, but it sure doesn't pay off more than like 10% of the time.

In any case, I already said I thought neither of them were the worst composer ever, but I sure doesn't exactly like most of Hamauzu's works.

Is it really bad that Uematsu does a lot of in your terms "simple" tracks? Or tracks that are easily digestible and almost too likable? I mean he's good at it, can't exactly say he's the worst. I think Uematsu is good at what he does, even if his recent experimenting isn't all in my taste.

EDIT:
I know some people pointed at Uematu's recent Blue Dragon as an example of him getting a bit tired, and while he sure might be getting a bit tired, I really enjoyed this ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) track. That track goes against most of what you say about his music too, JutsBeaumont.

JutsBeaumont
02-01-2014, 03:58 PM
Hamauzu isn't very minimalistic most of the time,
It's like you've forgotten the reason it was mentioned to begin with... Pause and reflect so that you can get everything straight before responding, please.


He rarely perfects his tracks either.
And what you mean by this is that his compositions don't align towards your own particular aural preferences. You're not giving enough credit to his thought process. That said, the same argument could easily be used for a large number of Uematsu's tracks. Especially his songs from FFX (Brave Advancement, anyone?) and a lot of his songs from IX.


Or tracks that are easily digestible and almost too likable?
Could bias be showing? I didn't use the term "likable" and the words aren't synonymous with each other.


That track goes against most of what you say about his music too, JutsBeaumont.
At first, I was actually inclined to agree wholeheartedly -- but after some more thorough investigation (and letting the song finish) -- I can only agree somewhat.
The melody is a little bit more developed than his standard fair, and the backing instruments are more varied and present than normal, but it's also fairly static and consistent most of the song. The structure and the chordal progression is fairly plain. Changes that do occur are slight and exist primarily on the surface, like the aforementioned silence from The Edge of Green.

That said, this is better than his usual fair. Thank you for introducing me to this song. I'll have to download this one sometime.

MMDE
02-02-2014, 12:02 AM
It's like you've forgotten the reason it was mentioned to begin with... Pause and reflect so that you can get everything straight before responding, please.


And what you mean by this is that his compositions don't align towards your own particular aural preferences. You're not giving enough credit to his thought process. That said, the same argument could easily be used for a large number of Uematsu's tracks. Especially his songs from FFX (Brave Advancement, anyone?) and a lot of his songs from IX.


Could bias be showing? I didn't use the term "likable" and the words aren't synonymous with each other.


At first, I was actually inclined to agree wholeheartedly -- but after some more thorough investigation (and letting the song finish) -- I can only agree somewhat.
The melody is a little bit more developed than his standard fair, and the backing instruments are more varied and present than normal, but it's also fairly static and consistent most of the song. The structure and the chordal progression is fairly plain. Changes that do occur are slight and exist primarily on the surface, like the aforementioned silence from The Edge of Green.

That said, this is better than his usual fair. Thank you for introducing me to this song. I'll have to download this one sometime.

I never said Hamauzu was minimalistic. <_<

Hamauzu worked on Brave Advancement/Bravely Forward as well... I'm not saying I don't prefer what Hamauzu is making by saying he doesn't perfect it, I'm saying he stops working on the track perhaps a bit too early. Either he strikes luck or he works more on it, because sometimes he can do much better than what he usually do. I've already said I don't think Hamauzu is horrible, just not that great, and he could probably do better than what he usually do. I don't think he should do an entire soundtrack, but instead I think he should try to make an entire soundtrack for then to have someone else come in and swap the worse tracks out with something better. As for FFIX, I think Uematsu did that soundtrack well, especially how he got most of the soundtrack to follow a certain underlying theme. That is something Uematsu grew better at by each FF game up to FFIX where he probably was at his peak when it comes to that.

I'm getting more and more convinced you don't like it when it follows more strict rules and thereby become more static and follow more "pop song laws", usually centered around a catchy melody. That's fine, that's your preference, but there's no denying Uematsu is good at this and it works well in games.

PaladinZ
02-02-2014, 08:39 AM
Steven Jablonsky's work on Gears of War. I loved the soundtracks for Transformers and Battleship, but Gears is a pain to listen to outside of the game. Microsoft and Sony, please stop using movie composers. Talk about generic.

And whoever composed for God of War. Aside from how unwarranted the side content was, the music itself is barely tolerable, and that's only for the best tracks. Otherwise, it's just a bunch of jumbled choir disharmony. If you want to know how it's supposed to be done, look at KneubuhlMann's Legend of Spyro trilogy soundtracks.

McGlynn
02-02-2014, 08:46 AM
While I don't think Motoi Sakuraba is a bad composer per se. Star Ocean 2 comes to mind as one his best best works (his theme of Rena is absolutely gorgeous), but most of his RPG soundtracks sound way to generic and bland. Like something you heard in thousands of other RPG's many times before.

MMDE
02-02-2014, 01:01 PM
Steven Jablonsky's work on Gears of War. I loved the soundtracks for Transformers and Battleship, but Gears is a pain to listen to outside of the game. Microsoft and Sony, please stop using movie composers. Talk about generic.

And whoever composed for God of War. Aside from how unwarranted the side content was, the music itself is barely tolerable, and that's only for the best tracks. Otherwise, it's just a bunch of jumbled choir disharmony. If you want to know how it's supposed to be done, look at KneubuhlMann's Legend of Spyro trilogy soundtracks.

Very much agreed! I know only of one track I remotely enjoyed on the God of War soundtrack, and that's this ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) song! xD

EDIT:
Do look at the description of that video I liked to on youtube...
"Composed by Gerard K. Marino, Ron Fish, Winifred Phillips, Mike Reagan, Cris Velasco and Winnie Waldron."
o.o So many, and yet it sounds like that.