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Phulbertino2004
10-13-2004, 08:03 AM
Im asking who you guys think is the better band Metallica or Iron Maiden In otherwords it's the UK(maiden) vs USA(metallica).
Waddya guys think?

A mon avis Metallica rock way more cause they put more thought into showmanship and their albums all rule. like 'and justic for all' and 'metallica'
Kirk is the best guitarist and James is the ultimate frontman and Lars, well cmon nuff sed!

Raidenex
10-13-2004, 05:05 PM
I've never really heard anything by Iron Maiden.

Aren't they the ones who put subliminal messages in their music?

I like Metallica. St. Anger was shit, though.

mrmonkeyman
10-13-2004, 05:57 PM
A mon avis Metallica rock way more cause they put more thought into showmanship!
Sweet fuck, you do not know what you're talking about.

I like Metallica more, don't get me wrong, but you talk out of your ass. Metallica come on, they play, they growl, they talk to the crowd, they do encores, etc, etc.

Iron Maiden come on IN COSTUMES. They battle GIGANTIC PUPPETS ONSTAGE. They do what metallica do too.

Iron Maiden, however, really have been lacking for a while. Their concerts get shitty people, and everything's blurring into one long track from them nowadays. Even their old stuff never really wet my whistle.


Kirk is the best guitarist and James is the ultimate frontman and Lars, well cmon nuff sed!
James is a great frontman.
Kirk is a good guitarist, but in no way, shape, or form is he "the best."
Lars Ulrich is an okay drummer. However, he needs to learn how to get that shit sampled, because really, St. Anger was worse because of that.

I think I'm the only person alive who actually liked St. Anger. It's mostly because I've seen a few tracks live. The drums do add to it.

Ride the Lightning shits on and justice. FIN.

Phulbertino2004
10-14-2004, 01:33 AM
James is a great frontman.
Kirk is a good guitarist, but in no way, shape, or form is he "the best."
Lars Ulrich is an okay drummer. However, he needs to learn how to get that shit sampled, because really, St. Anger was worse because of that.

I think I'm the only person alive who actually liked St. Anger. It's mostly because I've seen a few tracks live. The drums do add to it.

Ride the Lightning shits on and justice. FIN.
Okay not the best but i think i meant the better out of the two.
St anger?!!!!!!
u must be on another planet mate.
Apart from that all albums rock (except the above St disgrace) so y get all red faced over which one rocks more huh? Chill!

TK
10-14-2004, 01:59 AM
Well if I can pick any time period, I'd rather listen to oldschool Metallica of the two, though I'm not really particularly fond of anything Metallica did. But in terms of just being a decent band, I think Iron Maiden wins hands down.

I don't really know what the hell Iron Maiden is like NOW, but as far as I know they were one of the best real metal bands out there back in their day, and Metallica is as far as I can tell a bunch of snotty sellouts. I don't think anything they do is profound or meaningful or touching and I certainly don't think that they are a kickin' metal band by any stretch of the imagination.

Go listen to Slayer.

Phulbertino2004
10-14-2004, 02:32 AM
Well if I can pick any time period, I'd rather listen to oldschool Metallica of the two, though I'm not really particularly fond of anything Metallica did. But in terms of just being a decent band, I think Iron Maiden wins hands down.

I don't really know what the hell Iron Maiden is like NOW, but as far as I know they were one of the best real metal bands out there back in their day, and Metallica is as far as I can tell a bunch of snotty sellouts. I don't think anything they do is profound or meaningful or touching and I certainly don't think that they are a kickin' metal band by any stretch of the imagination.

Go listen to Slayer.
Well put my friend. i agree old school rock in general is superior!
Kiss, Metallica, iron maiden (yes i may prefere metallica but that doesn't mean i dont listen to maiden), twisted sister.

Dr. Lucien Sanchez
10-14-2004, 03:57 AM
Well put my friend. i agree old school rock in general is superior!
Kiss, Metallica, iron maiden (yes i may prefere metallica but that doesn't mean i dont listen to maiden), twisted sister.


Don't ever put that shitty Hair Metal band Kiss in the same sentance as Metallica or Iron Maiden, Kiss really aren't even metal.....there shit.

Anyway, I like Iron Maiden for who they are than Metallica. I own more Metallica than Maiden, but I just like the way Maiden are in general.

KREAYSHAWN
10-14-2004, 07:44 AM
Of the two, I prefer Iron Madien, though I don't like either very much.

rel() zero
10-14-2004, 02:05 PM
Iron Maiden by far, though Black Album might compare with some of Iron Maiden's stuff. that was a class album

mrmonkeyman
10-14-2004, 08:56 PM
Okay not the best but i think i meant the better out of the two.
St anger?!!!!!!
u must be on another planet mate.
Apart from that all albums rock (except the above St disgrace) so y get all red faced over which one rocks more huh? Chill!If you can't like St. Anger, you're just another generic fan to me. Really. See them live, then tell me it's a disgrace.

Merl
10-15-2004, 02:27 PM
personal musical preference aside, Iron Maiden wins hands down to the classic pic of two band members standing there arm-in-arm one of their shirts read "No we're not a Metal Band from England. . ." to which the other finished "We're dental floss salesmen from Wisconsin"

or something along those lines.

Metdude711
10-27-2004, 02:29 AM
Iron Maiden all the way!!!

Slash
10-27-2004, 06:02 AM
as if im the only person who voted for the best band guns n roses there dont get my wrong metallica are ace but there new stuf is shit! and iron maiden are shit!

Kool Ranch
10-27-2004, 04:24 PM
I like Metallica more. Their music seems more genuinely emotional, but maybe that's just me. Somehow I feel more from their music. or something.

Dru
10-27-2004, 07:51 PM
Man, I am all about some Metallica.

Well, I guess I can't say that. I've never been to a Metallica show, I never bought one of their CDs; never did anything but download their music and read their lyrics off the 'net just like I do with all the other music/bands that I listen to. But for me, Metallica was my first band that I listened to religiously. I've heard all their CDs: I used to listen to each one every day back in 9th grade. I think their lyrics are awesome as hell but I can see where some people would think they suck or are cheesy. I guess you can call me cheesy... or suck, I you want. ~_- But yeah, I just love Metallica. When St. Anger came out, wow, I just didn't listen to anything else.

Invisible Kid!
Never see what he did!
Got stuck where he hid!
Fallin' through the grid!

I mean, damn! Cheesy; maybe. But I don't give a fuck because it rocks my face off! Ahh!!! I kinda wanna listen to it now but I reformatted. >_<

I think Kirk is a damn good guitarist. He's all over them guitar magazines.

James has the best metal voice, I think. Especially in the S&M albums.

Lars: Yeah, fuck him. He's an ass and I don't think he's good at drums. Good thing his band rocks to back his ass up. I steal all my music, especially Metallica just out of spite. That fuck.

Rob, their new bass dude has cool hair. I honestly can't hear the bass guitar half the time when I listen to Metallica anyways. I think the other dude, I forgot his name, was cooler, though.

So, yeah. My vote goes to Metallica.

Aerith Gainsborough
11-06-2004, 10:05 AM
It's a kind of hard to say who's better, because there are two different tyes of music.

I like the older Metallica songs, but also some Iron Maiden songs. Metallica now got a bit too tame in my opinion. They make more of the stuff everybody likes. Iron Maiden is still Iron Maiden. You like them, or you don't.

To pick one of the two, I'd say Iron Maiden, though. They also have their mascot "Eddie" which is cool too. ;)

Martley
11-06-2004, 10:29 AM
Iron Maiden are just better than anyone else in the poll :-)

Tyler Durden
11-06-2004, 11:01 AM
Like Terry-kun said So listen to Slayer. \m/

Lunatic HighVII
11-06-2004, 12:42 PM
I prefer Metallica's old songs to Iron Maiden.

But I voted for Guns n' Roses in the poll. =)

Tyler Durden
11-06-2004, 02:26 PM
Guns and Roses kicks ass.

Vincent Paine
11-16-2004, 08:08 PM
Go listen to Slayer.


YES!!!!!

TK
11-16-2004, 11:57 PM
Added Slayer to the poll cos best metal band.

Vincent Paine
11-20-2004, 12:48 PM
I wanna vote Slayer DAMN IT!!!!!! They played Ozzfest and it was awsome and i got Kerry Kings Autograph!!!!

grn apple tree
11-20-2004, 12:52 PM
well my favorite band wasn't up there so i chose my friend's favorite band metallica they're ok

BizarroSephiroth
11-23-2004, 08:07 PM
I like them both

Venom
11-23-2004, 08:59 PM
Iron Maiden all the way they kick ass (Eddies awsome)

Hogso
11-29-2004, 05:27 PM
Every singleone of those bands are pap
But it goes to Iron Maiden for being as influential as they have been

A WILD SNORLAX APPEARS
12-01-2004, 07:32 PM
I really can't stand Metallica I them completely boring and repetitive, but hey, what do I know? I've never heard any Maiden.

The only band out of that poll that I like at all is System of a Down.

NiLok
12-07-2004, 09:27 PM
slayer r the best live... i saw them last june

Phhoenyxx
12-08-2004, 12:06 AM
System Of A Down because they are political and they are trying to make the world a better place.

Final_Fantasy_Freak88
12-08-2004, 02:02 AM
I would have to choose metallica!

Prak
12-08-2004, 02:29 AM
System Of A Down because they are political and they are trying to make the world a better place.

I find that attitude nothing short of ridiculous. Entertainers should stick to entertaining. Most people don't give a fuck what they think because we understand they don't know what they're talking about most of the time.

Phhoenyxx
12-08-2004, 03:58 AM
They also happen to be my favourite band on the list. Who are you to say they don't know what they are talking about? Do you know everything there is to know about everything? And where did you get this "Most people don't give a fuck what they think" statistic? Do you know everyone there is to know? Oh I see, you're American and because they're not a big fan of the American Government, then they're automatically anti-American... You should educate yourself. I'm Canadian, pro-Canadian, but I'm not too fond of my government. You don't always have to approve of your government, especially not when it's run by idiots. Stop being brainwashed!

Prak
12-08-2004, 04:10 AM
I already dislike you because you're a hypocrite. First you say that I'm an idiot because I talk like I know everything, then you go and do the exact same thing by making stupid assumptions about me.

My point is that most entertainers who comment on politics don't know any more than a random goon on the street, yet think people should listen to them just because they're famous or something. They tend to be egomaniacs, which anyone with two brain cells to rub together sees through. And as for being brainwashed, I think listening to the opinions of celebrities who have nothing to do with the issues they rant about is far more likely to induce that.

Phhoenyxx
12-08-2004, 09:21 AM
Once again you say most...

"most entertainers who comment on politics don't know any more than a random goon on the street"
Well who are you to say that they don't know what they're talking about?

"I think listening to the opinions of celebrities who have nothing to do with the issues"
I'm pretty sure they know a lot more than you do about the Armenian Genocide, seeing as how they're all Armenian and have family that have been through it. Then again, maybe you're Armenian and can contradict something they have to say?

Listen to Prison Song, Deer Dance, or watch the Boom! video. Listen to the facts, look them up, then prove me wrong. Stop defending that son of a Bush!

hey, you'll wanna watch out for:
Prak and Top Cat. THEY R MEAN
-Chewey

Apparently, I'm not the only one making assumptions, so maybe they're not assumptions after all...

Kuro
12-08-2004, 02:39 PM
Iron Maiden gets it, class band. Influenced a lot of talented musicians we have these days.

But where the fuck was Judas Priest?! The Priest rule them all!

Metallica kinda lost it after Cliff died. 'Justice was pretty kickass, but everything went to hell after that. Maiden havn't lost it, they're not tryin' to be media-friendly-hard-rock, they're still in it for the fans and the music.

To the chappie who said that Kirk's the best: are you off your fuckin' rocker or what, mate?! Ever heard of Herman Li or Alexi Laiho? If you've never heard anything better than Hammett, you'll be blown away.

I kinda agree with Phhoenyxx there, SoaD are quite good, and their songs are filled with some political messages that some politicians would do good to heed. Two good examples were named for you, I suggest you check those songs out.

Phhoenyxx
12-08-2004, 05:22 PM
Thanks Anubis, I appreciate it. Not a lot of political bands are able to blend their message and music in a way that is non-cheesy. SOAD and RATM are two bands that have mastered that art.

KREAYSHAWN
12-08-2004, 05:30 PM
Actually, as political lyrics go, they're both fairly average. Neither of them hold a candle to Dead Kennedys.

Prak
12-09-2004, 01:13 AM
Well who are you to say that they don't know what they're talking about?

Who are you to say that they do? They have no special education, so they're not likely to know any more than your standard guy on the street, yet they talk like they're experts.


I'm pretty sure they know a lot more than you do about the Armenian Genocide, seeing as how they're all Armenian and have family that have been through it. Then again, maybe you're Armenian and can contradict something they have to say?

Are you trying to make a point? I'm speaking in general terms and you're trying to focus in on something in particular. No matter whether there's anything to your argument or not, it is irrelevant in the context of the discussion.


Listen to Prison Song, Deer Dance, or watch the Boom! video. Listen to the facts, look them up, then prove me wrong. Stop defending that son of a Bush!

Heard them. Found them boring. And by bringing your hatred of President Bush to the front of the discussion when I hadn't referenced him in any way, you've completely negated any credibility you might have had. It shows that you're just eager to bash the man in any way possible, regardless of common sense, and that you'll never hold a fair debate on the issue I brought forward because you're arguing based on a personal vendetta.

When you learn to hold a reasonable discussion without making those stupid knee-jerk reactions, then come back and see me. I'm done with you until then.


Apparently, I'm not the only one making assumptions, so maybe they're not assumptions after all...

Or maybe you're just making the same assumptions. You've already shown that you listen to idiots who rant about things they know very little about as long as they say exactly what you want to hear.

Phhoenyxx
12-09-2004, 08:59 AM
The bottom line is that they're all facts, and you can't prove them wrong. If you could, you already would have; but instead, you're just trying to bring me down, and you're doing a half-assed job at best. If you intend to reply to this, the least you could do is discredit something SOAD has said; 'cause right now, you're just making a fool of yourself (and I'm enjoying it).

KREAYSHAWN
12-09-2004, 10:56 AM
The bottom line is that they're all facts, and you can't prove them wrong. If you could, you already would have; but instead, you're just trying to bring me down, and you're doing a half-assed job at best. If you intend to reply to this, the least you could do is discredit something SOAD has said; 'cause right now, you're just making a fool of yourself (and I'm enjoying it).

lol.

Prak
12-10-2004, 02:02 AM
The bottom line is that they're all facts, and you can't prove them wrong. If you could, you already would have; but instead, you're just trying to bring me down, and you're doing a half-assed job at best. If you intend to reply to this, the least you could do is discredit something SOAD has said; 'cause right now, you're just making a fool of yourself (and I'm enjoying it).

*sigh* You're supposed to check your coat at the door, not your brain.

This isn't about proving any particular person or group wrong. There are no specifics being discussed. I'm speaking in very general terms and you're trying to focus in on specifics, which is meaningless in the context of the discussion. You're trying to change the nature of the argument because you can't win on my terms. Tough luck, cause I won't play that game.

As far as doing a half-assed job of bringing you down, I don't need to do more. You do quite a good job of finishing it on your own.

And if you think I'm the one looking like a fool, you need to jam an oil can in your ear and lubricate your brain.

CRUNCH BAR
12-10-2004, 02:12 AM
For me, Metallica's Kill Em' All is the best rock album out there...

Phhoenyxx
12-10-2004, 12:01 PM
First you say that when I talk about the Armenian Genocide, I'm being too specific... Fine! Then when I ask you to discredit ANYTHING SOAD says, you still say I'm being too specific... Face it, you just can't discredit anything. Here, since you're too lazy to even try, I'll help you out...

"Nearly 2 million Americans are incarcerated in the prison system of the US!"
- Fact!

"The percentage of Americans in the prison system has doubled since 1985!"
- Fact!

"Drug money is used to rig elections and train brutal corporate sponsored dictators around the world!"
- George W. Bush loves his crack, Enron, and Halliburton!

"Beyond the Staples Center, you can see America, with its tired poor avenging disgrace! Peaceful loving youth against the brutality of plastic existence! Pushing little children, with their fully automatics, they like to push the weak around!"
- American Government sending kids to war over false pretences while millions inside and outside the US protested against it.

"Modern globalization, coupled with condemnations, unnecessary death! Matador corporations, puppeting your frustrations with the blinded flag! Manufacturing consent is the name of the game! The bottom line is money, nobody gives a f**k! 4000 hungry children leave us per hour from starvation, while billions are spent on bombs, creating death showers!"
- So much can be said about this one, but I think you get the idea...

RadBrad
12-11-2004, 05:15 AM
Metallica ARE the biggest band ever... statistically. They've had more fans than any other rock band in the world. The black album stayed in #1 in the charts for 2 months straight... match that Iron Maiden!

Don't get me wrong, Iron Maiden are an amazing band, and black sabbath may have invented Metal music, but Metallica mastered it.

There are only four bands that are worthy to be on that poll and thats Metallica, Maiden, Guns 'N' Roses and Slayer. This is for the pure fact that they've been around way longer than Greenday and System Of A Down. All four of them are rock legends, just Metallica is the biggest.

Prak
12-11-2004, 05:18 AM
I'm not going to dignify your wretched excuse for a counter-argument with a response. As I said, you're trying to change the argument from one about celebrities in general to one about SOAD. Homing in on that one group is irrelevant to the context of my argument because whether they're right or wrong in their opinions, they do not stand as representatives for all loud-mouthed celebrities.

Freya_theratfacedKnight
12-11-2004, 06:38 AM
I love System. they rock.....go the mushroom ppl ;)

(_Greenday and Metallica rule to :)_)

Phhoenyxx
12-11-2004, 10:40 AM
HAHA!

"you're trying to change the argument from one about celebrities in general to one about SOAD."
It was never about celebrities, it was always about SOAD. When you realized you couldn't discredit SOAD, you tried to change the subject to a more generalized perspective.

"Homing in on that one group is irrelevant to the context of my argument because whether they're right or wrong in their opinions"
Yo, Flip-Flopper, it was always about SOAD. The only thing you had to do is prove that SOAD didn't know what they were talking about. I never said that all entertainers knew what they were talking about, my point was that SOAD knew what they were talking about. Your job was to try to discredit SOAD, not every entertainer; and you failed.

This was my first post:
"System Of A Down because they are political and they are trying to make the world a better place."
Where do I talk about all entertainers in there? I don't! I talk about SOAD, period! Next time you wanna bash my first post, bash the subject of my post, not the fictional post you saw while on crack! You tried so hard to change the context of my statement, but I wouldn't allow it. If I had posted about all entertainers (which I wouldn't because I don't generalize), that's a different story, but that's not what I did. Stop trying to start sh*t just for the hell of starting sh*t! Look what it did... It mad you look like an a**!

Phhoenyxx: 1
Prak: 0

Who's next?!

KREAYSHAWN
12-11-2004, 11:25 AM
I find that attitude nothing short of ridiculous. Entertainers should stick to entertaining. Most people don't give a fuck what they think because we understand they don't know what they're talking about most of the time.

CURSE YOU JOHN KERRY.

Phhoenyxx
12-11-2004, 11:34 AM
While I prefer Kerry than Bush, for the sake of this thread, thank you Charlemagne!

KREAYSHAWN
12-11-2004, 11:43 AM
"dot dot dot".

Fated Forever
12-11-2004, 01:13 PM
I quite like Metallica. The Lyrics to nearly all of their songs [that I've heard] are so... deep [well, I think so anyway]. But, out of all of the bands to choose from, I think my favourite would have to be Greenday. Yes, they are influenced alot, but they are still a great band [& I'm seeing them early next year - yey!].

But, one thing confuses me. Why this thread is called 'Metallica V Iron Maiden' when there are loads more bands to choose from. I don't get it...?

Freya_theratfacedKnight
12-11-2004, 06:48 PM
I quite like Metallica. The Lyrics to nearly all of their songs [that I've heard] are so... deep [well, I think so anyway]. But, out of all of the bands to choose from, I think my favourite would have to be Greenday. Yes, they are influenced alot, but they are still a great band [& I'm seeing them early next year - yey!].





Hey I think Metallica lyrics are deep as well. I LOVE Green Day and goin to see them too(Wooo Hoooo) on Feb the 10th. When u goin?? is it the same date?? :)

KREAYSHAWN
12-11-2004, 07:00 PM
I remember watching the Metallica Documentary, "Some Kind of Monster".

It was pretty good, but I couldn't help laughing when they were writing their lyrics, because all they seemed to be doing was taking common sayings and giving them what they probably saw as an edgier twist.

I was not very impressed. =(

Prak
12-11-2004, 09:35 PM
This was my first post:
"System Of A Down because they are political and they are trying to make the world a better place."


You said that you liked SOAD because they're political. That implies that you would like any activist entertainer. If that isn't the case, you should have worded your original post differently to make the distinction. Also, since the context of your post was ambiguous (assuming I misinterpreted originally), I didn't try to change it at all; merely followed it to the logical end.

Incidentally, if you wanna swear, do it properly.

Phhoenyxx
12-11-2004, 10:22 PM
"You said that you liked SOAD because they're political. That implies that you would like any activist entertainer."

Do you just make up meanings as you go along? How does that imply that I would like any activist entertainer? In the list to choose from, SOAD is my favourite band. I like many of them. I like Metallica, recently saw them at the Bell Center in Montreal (first sold out date on the tour); I like Green Day; I like Guns N' Roses; I like most of them actually. But I like SOAD the most, and ONE of the reasons why I like them the most is because not only do they make good music (as do most of the other bands to choose from), but because they are trying to make the world a better place. Note that my original post said "they are political AND are trying to make the world a better place." Anyone can be political. George W. Bush is political, but I don't think he's trying to make the world a better place. That's what made me choose them over let's say Metallica. Because both of them make great music, but a catchy song like Metallica's Fuel ("Gimme fuel! Gimme fire! Gimme that which I desire!") doesn't really help make this world a better place. Whereas SOAD's Prison Song for example, shows you what the world might be coming to if we don't act fast.

Just bow down already. You tried to make me look bad and it backfired. You learned your lesson.

OWNAGE!

KREAYSHAWN
12-12-2004, 07:59 AM
You might be a bit more convincing if you didn't continually allude to what you'd probably, perversely call Prak's crushing defeat.

Phhoenyxx
12-12-2004, 09:14 AM
I tried that for a bunch of posts and it didn't work.

Prak
12-13-2004, 12:05 AM
Nor does what you're trying. Declaring yourself the victor doesn't make it so. That's for observers to decide. All you're doing is making yourself look childish and arrogant.

Anyway, I've had my say now and anything more would just be going in circles, repeating things I've already said. The only reason to carry on would be to insult you, which I find to be a tempting prospect, but one requiring far too much commitment.

Kuro
12-13-2004, 01:57 PM
Then why have said anything at all? Why post about SOAD? Or whatever you were trying to get across in your hackneyed posts, only alluding to any real meaning.

You mentioned that it is up to the observers, well, from observing, you seem to have been switching from subject-to-subject insteading of keeping to the topic at hand.

Not looking to start an argument or join the current one, just the unobjective opinions from an observer.

Purrr
12-13-2004, 05:27 PM
Ugh! All these bands are pretty bad.

There is decent metal out there.......but the bands in the poll are not.

Kuro
12-14-2004, 02:22 PM
No, some are quite good. They may not appeal to your taste in music, but some are undeniably talented.

KREAYSHAWN
12-14-2004, 02:39 PM
Prak never actually changed his position. Maybe you should read before you reply.

Just a suggestion. =/

Phhoenyxx
12-14-2004, 04:13 PM
Prak never changed his position? I think he did, quite a few times actually, but that's irrelevant. The point is, he was off-topic from the start.

KREAYSHAWN
12-14-2004, 06:33 PM
I find that attitude nothing short of ridiculous. Entertainers should stick to entertaining. Most people don't give a fuck what they think because we understand they don't know what they're talking about most of the time.

Read that carefully. SOAD? No. Entertainers? Yes! Re-read his posts. He was entirely consistent, whether or not you seem to think the argument was about something else entirely.

=/

And being off-topic doesn't matter. We don't care. That's not a point. What are you talking about?

Phhoenyxx
12-14-2004, 07:00 PM
I was talking about SOAD and he was talking about SOAD by using the word entertainers. He was generalizing. Pay attention.

KREAYSHAWN
12-14-2004, 07:04 PM
Er.

Generalising is the opposite of taking a specific case such as SOAD. Unless you are suggesting he generalised about SOAD specifically?

=/

Phhoenyxx
12-14-2004, 07:11 PM
Dude, this topic is dead, let's just leave it at that. I need to go study.

Espanha
12-14-2004, 07:16 PM
oh oh forfeit. he forfeited

Phhoenyxx
12-14-2004, 07:50 PM
I was talking about SOAD. I said I liked them because they were political AND were trying to make the world a better place. He then generalized by saying that most entertainers don't know what they're talking about, which I don't doubt is true. But I wasn't talking about most entertainers, I was talking about SOAD, and I proved him wrong when I showed him that they did know what they were talking about.

Espanha
12-14-2004, 08:04 PM
well i like SOAD too but i don't argue about it. some people like it, others don't

Phhoenyxx
12-14-2004, 08:38 PM
Don't tell me, tell Prak.

Espanha
12-14-2004, 08:46 PM
i'm telling everyone that reads and i don't care that they don't like it. their opinion and i respect that

still i must say that their latest album sucked big time :(

Phhoenyxx
12-14-2004, 10:22 PM
Steal This Album! wasn't really an album. It was a compilation of unreleased songs (songs that didn't make the cut on their previous 2 albums). If you bought it and feel you got ripped off, then maybe you shoulda done what the title said and stolen it. ;)

TK
12-15-2004, 01:58 AM
Ugh! All these bands are pretty bad.

There is decent metal out there.......but the bands in the poll are not.

Wait, don't you listen to Cradle of Filth or something? What the fuck?

I would be <i>quite</i> fascinated to hear what your definition of "decent metal" is if it does not include anything released by Iron Maiden, Slayer, or Metallica.

Prak
12-15-2004, 02:02 AM
You really need to stop taking things so personally, at least around here. You'll get eaten alive.

You still don't seem to understand that I was pointing out how your statement about SOAD was indicative of a much larger problem. It was never about whether SOAD know what they're talking about. It's about how people are morons for listening to celebrities as though they know what they're talking about, when they usually do not. SOAD just happened to be the catalyst for it. To emphasize my point, I'll add that I haven't even bothered to form an opinion about their particular views because it isn't worth my time to do so.

And saying their last album wasn't really an album is just a cheap apologist copout. It has their name on it. They recorded the music. It is sold in stores (For money! Can you believe it?). It is a real album.

TK
12-15-2004, 02:31 AM
Assuming that people don't know what they're talking about because they are celebrities makes just as little sense as assuming that they do because of it.

rezo
12-15-2004, 02:40 AM
Yup. It'd be funny if everyone that voiced an opinion on a message board was judged based their occupation. Then, instead of agreeing with what TK just said, I could tell him to shutup and go stock some shelves at blockbuster.

Prak
12-15-2004, 02:40 AM
Undeniable, that is. However, at the moment, I'm only bitching about giving people undeserved credit because they're famous. Sure, it can turn the other way, but one scenario has very little impact on the other.

TK
12-15-2004, 05:08 AM
But my point was that you were just saying you haven't bothered to formulate an opinion on what SoaD says because it would be a waste of your time, and your reason seemed to be that they are celebrities as opposed to, say, nuclear scientists, or spearfishers or something. SoaD writes lyrics about pretty serious issues that affect just about everybody in the country, so it would definitely be worth your time to form opinions of what they're saying.

Prak
12-15-2004, 05:24 AM
But as I've said before, I never singled out SOAD at all. My whole issue was about celebrities not knowing their place and trying to use their fame to promote their own political agendas, which are usually completely unrelated to their own fields of expertise. I made sure I allowed room for exceptions because, for all I know, SoaD might (or might not) fit under that category.

Phhoenyxx
12-15-2004, 08:38 AM
I never singled out SOAD at all. My whole issue was about celebrities not knowing their place and trying to use their fame to promote their own political agendas

That's the problem. I was talking about SOAD, and you were trying to say that I was wrong by generalizing about "most" celebrities. I never mentionned anything about "most" celebrities. Besides, SOAD has always been political, even when their first album came out and they weren't "celebrities" yet. If you wanna start shit, make sure it's in the right thread and for the right reasons.


usually completely unrelated to their own fields of expertise

So you're saying that a musician can only play music and an athlete can only play sports? Who exactly has the right to be an expert in politics? George W. Bush? Because he's the President, he's an expert? LOL! The only thing he's an expert at is using crack, drinking beer, acting dumb, not knowing how to read or talk, losing allies, starting wars for all the wrong reasons, creating a police state, destroying the Constitution, etc.

Espanha
12-15-2004, 09:30 AM
you shoulda done what the title said and stolen it. ;)


who says i didnt? :P

TK
12-15-2004, 02:46 PM
LOL! The only thing he's an expert at is using crack, drinking beer, acting dumb, not knowing how to read or talk, losing allies, starting wars for all the wrong reasons, creating a police state, destroying the Constitution, etc.

See, in terms of the argument as a whole, I think you're right, but when you say stuff like this it kind of negates it to intelligent people.

Just say your piece.


But as I've said before, I never singled out SOAD at all. My whole issue was about celebrities not knowing their place and trying to use their fame to promote their own political agendas, which are usually completely unrelated to their own fields of expertise. I made sure I allowed room for exceptions because, for all I know, SoaD might (or might not) fit under that category.

Right. I never contested this.

Except one small thing—you <i>did</i> single out SoaD in the post I quoted, saying that you hadn't bothered to form an opinion of what they say. What I don't understand is why, if you admit there's a possibility that they do, in fact, know what they're talking about, you feel it would be a waste of your time to find out?

Prak
12-16-2004, 01:55 AM
It isn't worth my time to go out of my way to find out about it because I don't know enough about them in the first place. Their lyrics might be about stuff I already know and have solid opinions about. If it crosses my path, then I'd think about it, but I'm not going to seek out something that may just be a waste of my time. When I'm seeking information, I prefer to find more credible sources.

And just so there's no misunderstanding, there's a distinction between knowledgability and credibility. Even if they're knowledgable, they're not credible sources due to it not being related to their chosen profession. The same goes for any other celebrity who uses their fame to voice their opinions on politics, no matter what their views may be.

TK
12-16-2004, 02:21 AM
It isn't worth my time to go out of my way to find out about it because I don't know enough about them in the first place. Their lyrics might be about stuff I already know and have solid opinions about. If it crosses my path, then I'd think about it, but I'm not going to seek out something that may just be a waste of my time. When I'm seeking information, I prefer to find more credible sources.

I'm more talking about this in the context of the argument you're having here, though. I wouldn't expect you to just randomly look into the truth of System of a Down lyrics, but it seems logical that if an issue such as one of the ones that has been mentioned in this topic as an example of what they write about is brought to your attention, you would choose to find out what the truth is as best you can. Unless you just don't care enough, which is a different issue altogether. Whether it's in a System of a Down song or on the front of a newspaper is irrelevent.


And just so there's no misunderstanding, there's a distinction between knowledgability and credibility. Even if they're knowledgable, they're not credible sources due to it not being related to their chosen profession. The same goes for any other celebrity who uses their fame to voice their opinions on politics, no matter what their views may be.

Balogne, in my opinion. What makes a newspaper more credible than a contemporary metal band, really? Both are just people observing things and writing about them.

And if you really want to get into the whole "professional credibility" thing, it actually is System of a Down's job to know what they are talking about. You could say that they are not a credible source because they are entertainers, but that's like saying newspaper reporters aren't credible sources because they are writers. If you're going to be technical, System of a Down are political entertainers—the purpose of their music is to simultaneously entertain and spread what they believe is important truth. So part of their job would be knowing what that important truth is.

Prak
12-16-2004, 02:45 AM
And if you really want to get into the whole "professional credibility" thing, it actually is System of a Down's job to know what they are talking about. You could say that they are not a credible source because they are entertainers, but that's like saying newspaper reporters aren't credible sources because they are writers. If you're going to be technical, System of a Down are political entertainers—the purpose of their music is to simultaneously entertain and spread what they believe is important truth. So part of their job would be knowing what that important truth is.

Interesting viewpoint, but while I don't believe it's without merit, I do think it has a couple flaws. According to your description, perhaps it is their responsibility to know what they're talking about, but that's no guarantee that they do. And regardless, that standard is not upheld by many other loudmouthed entertainers.

Hawthorne
12-16-2004, 02:50 AM
Polatics and music hmmm lests keep them separate, they dont mix. Im british but im affraid I like metallica iron maden are a bit ... lame... but so is most of the other stuff on that list. guns and soad are the only other bands on that list that dont need piano wire round the throat. Thats Just my opinion though ....

TK
12-16-2004, 02:59 AM
Interesting viewpoint, but while I don't believe it's without merit, I do think it has a couple flaws. According to your description, perhaps it is their responsibility to know what they're talking about, but that's no guarantee that they do. And regardless, that standard is not upheld by many other loudmouthed entertainers.

But there's no guarantee that anybody knows what they're talking about, whether they are a professional news reporter or a revolutionary rock band or whatever. I would never assume that a rock band knows what they're talking about without checking it out first, but I would also never assume the news does.

Prak
12-16-2004, 03:05 AM
Also true, but it's easier to find unbiased news than unbiased poilitical song lyrics. In the end, they're promoting their own agenda rather than presenting facts, which slays their credibility. Not to say finding unbiased news is easy these days, but it can be found.

rezo
12-16-2004, 03:22 AM
In the end, they're promoting their own agenda rather than presenting facts, which slays their credibility.

No it doesn't.

KREAYSHAWN
12-16-2004, 10:53 AM
Polatics and music hmmm lests keep them separate, they dont mix.

That's right. Keep those filthy Poles out of our music!