PDA

View Full Version : Square enix doesn't care about us, only mainstream



Nostalgia gamer
04-20-2014, 07:59 AM
I have come to believe that square enix doesn't care about us.It only cares about what sells to the mainstream.There are many games that could have been improved or used a remake.

FF6
FF6 was promised a remake, and all i heard about is a android portable version that would do it no honor.

Kefka in dissidia 1 was made to be a complete joke to sell that joker prophecy, when in ff6, he was funny, but he also made a lot of death threats.He was made to look like a complete joke and pathetic next to non god creatures.

In kingdom hearts series, setzer was made to be an asshole when he wasn't that way in the game.He did flirt with celes and flipped a coin, but he wasn't an arrogant prick towards people.

Kefka was walked over by everyone and bows down to everyone and pathetic, when he was only weak when he was human, and he had more dignity than that because he hid behind people and used them.He was still more threatening.
FF9
Dissidia 2:Made kuja into a hopeless romantic philosopher? He was evil in ff9 and he seemed somehow less evil.I like the voice actor, but i want to feel more threatened by him.
I haven't seen anymore sequels to the series or adventures, and i like some of the characters.

FF7:

It got promised a remake and it wasn't made.Fans are still angry about it.

FF8:

Squall was made to be emo in dissidia and a complete asshole, when he wasn't as much so in the game.He was not purposefully an asshole at least.If you play the game, you would see that he doesn't trust people.

The only reason they care about mainstream, is because it makes more money.If they really cared, they would put more love into game series.

Nostalgia gamer
04-21-2014, 02:23 AM
I wonder if ff6 will be ever remade at all on a decent console, so newer ages and kids and grand kids of the people who played the original get to play it

Leon Scott Kennedy
04-22-2014, 08:26 AM
Why are you so bothered by that crap? As far as I know, Dissidia and/or Kingdom Hearts don't actually have any relevance for the originals FINAL FANTASY(s)' plots and portrayal of characters, they are just borrowing what we could refer to as cash~grabs.

Nostalgia gamer
04-22-2014, 09:14 AM
Why are you so bothered by that crap? As far as I know, Dissidia and/or Kingdom Hearts don't actually have any relevance for the originals FINAL FANTASY(s)' plots and portrayal of characters, they are just borrowing what we could refer to as cash~grabs.

Because then we have people who say:OOH squall is emo, bla bla bla he is an asshole, when it was dissidia's fault that people probably think this.

And dissida further made kefka look like the joker.In the original game it wasn't as much so.He had his funny lines, but it was because of the woolseyism translations and some of the stuff was funny but cruel.

It pains me to see a series bastardized.FF1 for an example had nothing to ruin.Its story was simplistic and the dawn of souls improved upon it.

FF4 had some neat ideas.I liked the voice acting for both cecil and golbez.Even kain's voice worked.I did not like that pink garb cecil was wearing, it was a bit too fruity.

Leon Scott Kennedy
04-22-2014, 10:17 AM
Because then we have people who say:OOH squall is emo, bla bla bla he is an asshole, when it was dissidia's fault that people probably think this.

And dissida further made kefka look like the joker.In the original game it wasn't as much so.He had his funny lines, but it was because of the woolseyism translations and some of the stuff was funny but cruel.

It pains me to see a series bastardized.FF1 for an example had nothing to ruin.Its story was simplistic and the dawn of souls improved upon it.

FF4 had some neat ideas.I liked the voice acting for both cecil and golbez.Even kain's voice worked.I did not like that pink garb cecil was wearing, it was a bit too fruity.
So what if they do think like that? I say, their loss in such case. Dissidia and Kingdom Hearts were advertised (to some extent) as having 'guest-appearances' (not the most proper choice of term, but oh well) from the FINAL FANTASY games, right? I'd dare to say that someone which isn't a full-fledged chocobrain and really liked the characters would play them, too, not just stick to what a goddamn fighting game with multi-universes has to say.

Personally, despite my loving of Squall's attire and initial attitude in FFVIII, for me he did turn into a complete asshole as soon as CD 3 started: Rinoa falls into a coma and Squall suddenly acts pained over it? Up to that point, he seemed to act mostly annoyed toward her, feeling forced to protect her because of the contract with Balamb's Garden. Heck, I used to think he did rape Rinoa while she was comatose, and was itching to discover what sex felt like when the other is reacting, too.

As for the 'bastardisizing' of the franchise, welcome to how business works: let's face it, not many out there are developing games out of good-will, they want revenue... And while it would be ideal to please everyone, I won't blame them for looking at what's selling the most around mainstream/younger gamers crowd, that's where the biggest income is. We are no longer the main-target-audience.

Nostalgia gamer
04-22-2014, 11:10 AM
So what if they do think like that? I say, their loss in such case. Dissidia and Kingdom Hearts were advertised (to some extent) as having 'guest-appearances' (not the most proper choice of term, but oh well) from the FINAL FANTASY games, right? I'd dare to say that someone which isn't a full-fledged chocobrain and really liked the characters would play them, too, not just stick to what a goddamn fighting game with multi-universes has to say.

Personally, despite my loving of Squall's attire and initial attitude in FFVIII, for me he did turn into a complete asshole as soon as CD 3 started: Rinoa falls into a coma and Squall suddenly acts pained over it? Up to that point, he seemed to act mostly annoyed toward her, feeling forced to protect her because of the contract with Balamb's Garden. Heck, I used to think he did rape Rinoa while she was comatose, and was itching to discover what sex felt like when the other is reacting, too.

As for the 'bastardizing' of the franchise, welcome to how business works: let's face it, not many out there are developing games out of good-will, they want revenue... And while it would be ideal to please everyone, I won't blame them for looking at what's selling the most around mainstream/younger gamers crowd, that's where the biggest income is. We are no longer the main-target-audience.

Squall was cold because he was distrustful.He didn't let anyone get close to him because he was afraid of being hurt, so he built a invisible barrier between himself and the world.In dissida:He was an asshole for the sake of being an asshole, which is a rather shallow reasoning.

Its bad enough that ff9 was ruined by the fact that they didn't make kuja the main villain, which sucked big time.I think he was a far better villain than necron, and ff4 would have been much better if golbez had been the final villain.Even if zeromus musical theme was very good,golbez had the best theme and was the best antagonist.Heck:Even kain was a better antagonist.

Square enix managed to even ruin ff7 for some with the movies.I've heard quite a lot of bad things about dirge of cerberus and advent children.It just seems like square enix have a fucked up sort of way of making games.I think part of it is the push for technology frankly.It isn't 100% square enixes fault.There is this thing that has been going on for quite a while that the most important thing is graphics, and a push to sell graphics.With this sort of shallow business ethics, you get games where trailers are made and you see big cgi cutscenes and lots of gorgeous 3d models with very cutesy and lame stories and characters.I think we are a little fucked.

AFMG
04-22-2014, 01:42 PM
I think it would help to this argument knowing how much of the staff that worked in VII and VIII is around nowadays in Square Enix. Maybe that would explain something, for starters.

Enkidoh
04-22-2014, 07:31 PM
That's correct - much of the FFVII and VIII development was outsourced to other companies and many of the artists who worked on them weren't even directly employed by Square themselves.

I admit I hate Kingdom Hearts with a passion, but I enjoyed Dissidia for what it was, mindless fanservice - but SE has never pretended them to be anything other than spinoffs so don't take it so seriously Nostalgia.


I have come to believe that square enix doesn't care about us.It only cares about what sells to the mainstream.There are many games that could have been improved or used a remake.

Naoki Yoshida would like a word with you. ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) ;)
[Only registered and activated users can see links]

Vrykolas
04-22-2014, 08:40 PM
Not to let Square Enix off the hook, but do you honestly think *any* games company cares about anything but how many copies of its products it sells?! Out of the workforce in the average video game developer/publisher, you'll have lots of people working out which market trends to follow that look the most promising,lots and lots of people who are punching the clock to put food on the table, and if you're lucky a handful of people who actually care about creating something worthwhile for the ages.

None of those people, from the most venal executives to the most disinterested journeymen temps, want to make *bad* games, but the idea that great swathes of your workforce would protest at having to work on overly commercial and artistically bankrupt products is fanciful. The higher ups want the company to make the most money it can, the rest of the company just wants the company to survive so they still have a job. Sure, they'd rather work on a great premise that a visionary auteur genius of the company has fired them all up about - but that's incredibly rare and it always has been.

We can romanticize it all we want, but it doesn't alter the truth - this is a business. Its about making money. Its nothing personal from the companies - they don't hate you, but they aren't your friend either. They want your money, and beyond that they really don't care what you think.

Nostalgia gamer
04-23-2014, 06:17 AM
Not to let Square Enix off the hook, but do you honestly think *any* games company cares about anything but how many copies of its products it sells?! Out of the workforce in the average video game developer/publisher, you'll have lots of people working out which market trends to follow that look the most promising,lots and lots of people who are punching the clock to put food on the table, and if you're lucky a handful of people who actually care about creating something worthwhile for the ages.

None of those people, from the most venal executives to the most disinterested journeymen temps, want to make *bad* games, but the idea that great swathes of your workforce would protest at having to work on overly commercial and artistically bankrupt products is fanciful. The higher ups want the company to make the most money it can, the rest of the company just wants the company to survive so they still have a job. Sure, they'd rather work on a great premise that a visionary auteur genius of the company has fired them all up about - but that's incredibly rare and it always has been.

We can romanticize it all we want, but it doesn't alter the truth - this is a business. Its about making money. Its nothing personal from the companies - they don't hate you, but they aren't your friend either. They want your money, and beyond that they really don't care what you think.

Selling? Of course square enix cares about selling.Quality? I doubt that.The fans? i doubt that too.If ff series were to stop selling all together, you could bet your ass that they would care.I doubt they want to purposefully make bad games that would bankrupt them, rather:They want to make games that sell to everyone, rather than make rpgs for rpg fans.They care more about money than quality.

Vrykolas
04-23-2014, 07:27 PM
And that's unique to Square Enix, is it? One look at Atlus with its slew of shameless Persona spin off cash grabs says otherwise (a dancing game?!)

They are assets, not beloved old artistic properties that the company holds in reverence. They are ways to make money. All companies shamelessly flog their successful franchises (hell, just look at Mario or Sonic!), because its easy money and people pay for it. You might not like it, but this is the world we live in. They're not going to stop doing it just because you tell them to! They'll only stop doing it if it stops being profitable.

In a world that contains Ubisoft, EA, Activision, Bethesda, Nintendo etc etc, its churlish to have a go at Square Enix alone. They're no better or worse than the rest of them - they're all as bad as each other. If you want to have any enjoyment out of gaming, you need to learn that what fans consider sacred, companies see only in terms of dollars. They don't care about what it is, just how much it can make them (George Lucas and Star Wars is another example).

But that's business for you - its the ugly side of the industry that most gamers try not to think about too much, because its just too depressing.

Nostalgia gamer
04-24-2014, 10:44 AM
And that's unique to Square Enix, is it? One look at Atlus with its slew of shameless Persona spin off cash grabs says otherwise (a dancing game?!)

They are assets, not beloved old artistic properties that the company holds in reverence. They are ways to make money. All companies shamelessly flog their successful franchises (hell, just look at Mario or Sonic!), because its easy money and people pay for it. You might not like it, but this is the world we live in. They're not going to stop doing it just because you tell them to! They'll only stop doing it if it stops being profitable.

In a world that contains Ubisoft, EA, Activision, Bethesda, Nintendo etc etc, its churlish to have a go at Square Enix alone. They're no better or worse than the rest of them - they're all as bad as each other. If you want to have any enjoyment out of gaming, you need to learn that what fans consider sacred, companies see only in terms of dollars. They don't care about what it is, just how much it can make them (George Lucas and Star Wars is another example).

But that's business for you - its the ugly side of the industry that most gamers try not to think about too much, because its just too depressing.

Yeah i'm a realist though.I think they got worse though in the years.When enix bought square and combined each other, the company went completely downhill.Back before enix, good games were still being produced, but we got more and more garbage once they combine.

Vrykolas
04-24-2014, 08:47 PM
Its not about the merger so much as talented people moving on, as others have said. Games are not made by some bloated entity called 'Capcom' or some demonic force called 'EA' - they are businesses run by actual people. A truly talented individual can inspire others to create something great, a group of gifted employees can polish unremarkable games into something better than it should be etc etc. And it doesn't last forever, and once they are gone, you are left with a vacuum. The most genius auteurs eventually start repeating themselves (SUDA 51, Ken Levine etc etc). Talented teams of workers lose their early enthusiasm or just start to produce diminishing returns (Team Silent, Bioware, Square etc).

But just because the lights go out, it doesn't mean the show is over. The company in question (whoever it may be, Capcom, Square, Bioware, EA etc etc) has to go on. It still has employees to pay, still has games in production, fans to please and cajole into buying their products. The merry go round never stops, even when the best people you have are a spent force or have moved on. Its all about keeping the lights on until you hit the next big strike (be it a hit game, a talented new employee who has visionary ideas, a new executive who 'gets' gaming in a way his more venal companions don't... just something that moves the company into the next phase.

Mostly all of the big name companies are currently in a down phase. There really hasn't been much to shout about from any of them recently. Nintendo may not even survive this generation (or may have to concentrate on handhelds from now on). We've got Konami getting to all kinds of japes charging people 30 quid for a hour of gameplay, and the less said about Castlevania Lords of Shadow 2 the better...

They're all just trying to stay afloat at the moment, hoping someone will fire the magic bullet that shows them where the money is going to be for the next 5 years.

Nostalgia gamer
05-04-2014, 03:36 PM
Its not about the merger so much as talented people moving on, as others have said. Games are not made by some bloated entity called 'Capcom' or some demonic force called 'EA' - they are businesses run by actual people. A truly talented individual can inspire others to create something great, a group of gifted employees can polish unremarkable games into something better than it should be etc etc. And it doesn't last forever, and once they are gone, you are left with a vacuum. The most genius auteurs eventually start repeating themselves (SUDA 51, Ken Levine etc etc). Talented teams of workers lose their early enthusiasm or just start to produce diminishing returns (Team Silent, Bioware, Square etc).

But just because the lights go out, it doesn't mean the show is over. The company in question (whoever it may be, Capcom, Square, Bioware, EA etc etc) has to go on. It still has employees to pay, still has games in production, fans to please and cajole into buying their products. The merry go round never stops, even when the best people you have are a spent force or have moved on. Its all about keeping the lights on until you hit the next big strike (be it a hit game, a talented new employee who has visionary ideas, a new executive who 'gets' gaming in a way his more venal companions don't... just something that moves the company into the next phase.

Mostly all of the big name companies are currently in a down phase. There really hasn't been much to shout about from any of them recently. Nintendo may not even survive this generation (or may have to concentrate on handhelds from now on). We've got Konami getting to all kinds of japes charging people 30 quid for a hour of gameplay, and the less said about Castlevania Lords of Shadow 2 the better...

They're all just trying to stay afloat at the moment, hoping someone will fire the magic bullet that shows them where the money is going to be for the next 5 years.

[Only registered and activated users can see links]
Final Fantasy 6 (iOS) Final Boss - Kefka - YouTube ([Only registered and activated users can see links])

This is why i don't trust se with classics.They fucked up ff6 on android by making chibi characters and details somehow seem like its made in rpg maker xp.

The music also somehow isn't in sync.
Why couldn't we get a remake like ff4 ds? a proper remake?

spl4shd4m4ge
05-04-2014, 03:50 PM
A lot of the reason Square's business practices have shifted is because the trends in gaming simply call for it.

An object in motion tends to stay in motion.

We live in a world where the only way to impress an entire generation of gamers is to take what has been and make it ten times better. Well, what do we do when it's already as good as it's going to get? Start experimenting.

Titles like Final Fantasy XII and Final Fantasy XIII showed that branching from the norms and outright supplanting them can take a less desirable turn for the worse, while still managing to cement a solid fanbase whose goals, ideals and desires go beyond that of the more easily entertained old retinue. As these new fans replace the old, amassing a small country's worth of curious faces foaming at the mouth for the next best thing, companies quickly realise their own priorities have to adjust.

Old employees either sigh in dismay at the shift and throw in the towel, or are let go because their services simply don't match what's stipulated in the latest cash grab. Integrity is given up for lent, and ties are severed in the bid to make ends meet in a market that simply doesn't need or want the golden era's treasures anymore. Classics have to be remade or revamped just to keep the dream alive, but only with modern standards to hinge them together.

It's a competitive industry out there, and as sad as it is to admit it to ourselves, we have to understand Square is only following business protocol: "Follow where the money leads."

Nostalgia gamer
05-04-2014, 05:39 PM
A lot of the reason Square's business practices have shifted is because the trends in gaming simply call for it.

An object in motion tends to stay in motion.

We live in a world where the only way to impress an entire generation of gamers is to take what has been and make it ten times better. Well, what do we do when it's already as good as it's going to get? Start experimenting.

Titles like Final Fantasy XII and Final Fantasy XIII showed that branching from the norms and outright supplanting them can take a less desirable turn for the worse, while still managing to cement a solid fanbase whose goals, ideals and desires go beyond that of the more easily entertained old retinue. As these new fans replace the old, amassing a small country's worth of curious faces foaming at the mouth for the next best thing, companies quickly realise their own priorities have to adjust.

Old employees either sigh in dismay at the shift and throw in the towel, or are let go because their services simply don't match what's stipulated in the latest cash grab. Integrity is given up for lent, and ties are severed in the bid to make ends meet in a market that simply doesn't need or want the golden era's treasures anymore. Classics have to be remade or revamped just to keep the dream alive, but only with modern standards to hinge them together.

It's a competitive industry out there, and as sad as it is to admit it to ourselves, we have to understand Square is only following business protocol: "Follow where the money leads."

Whats frustrating is:It could have been done on ds or something alike.A 3d world was something people wanted.The battle sprites were nice and the menu system looked great, i just think the overworld amp and the sprites on overworld characters needed fixing.Characters had no mouths and look like something made in rpg maker.Besides:What i really like is playing remakes on home consoles.

So far i like the ds remake of ff4, and some of the voice acting is pretty good.I think ff6 could have worked.Oh well.

Vrykolas
05-06-2014, 06:08 PM
Being a fan is something you can't really control - if you like something, then you like it. But it leaves you wide open for exploitation by games companies, who in large part take your loyalty for granted. So when old games are reissued, or remade or have their assets ported to other games, they almost never feel the need to put in any buy the bare minimum of effort, relying on the name alone to sucker people into buying games they have already played or may even already own.

For every X-COM: Enemy Unknown or Resident Evil 1 remake tale of respectful renovation and updating for new and old fans alike, there is a grim parade of hack jobs, HD remakes, shameless whoring of assets to unsuitable games, inconsistent lore and characters etc etc etc. Because the assumption is that fans will pay, newcomers may pay out of curiosity over a title they heard others talk about, and of those people only a fraction will even remember or have experienced the original. And of that number, only a small amount will muster any kind of protest over inconsistencies, and never in a way that would actually threaten sales.

As ever with this industry, set your expectations low or you'll get burned again and again and again. The industry is so entrenched in its ways now, that nothing short a second great crash will jolt them out of their complacency. And we should be very careful of wishing for that, seeing as how it would mean many years in the wilderness, without even the low quality that we have now. If all the game companies that people complain about went bust tomorrow, then we'd barely have any left - and we don't have that many that really matter as it stands!